Cruise Pirate

This thread is about discussing the CDC's stay of the injunction. Not the place to be debating vaccines or masks.

So THAT'S what's making that clanking sound !

Check back in 2031 to see if they've even broken ground yet

I am on Vision in September, still booked, no news from RC about cancelations and I am worried we will not be able to go.
Still no news as well about Vision Test Cruises.

Time for the family to move on.  Period.

This is no different than the lunatics who go nuts in airports when their flight is cancelled. Let's not give them any more attention.

^^This^^

My understanding is the injunction only applies to Florida ports. So Puerto Rico or Seattle departures unaffected and would still be subject to the CSO

Hilarious.  That's only 3 pages, but that's one hell of a smackdown by the judge.
 

Well, that's fun. Scathing, even. The judge just denied the motion for a stay on the preliminary injunction.
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/8_21-cv-00839-SDM-AAS/98_047023202056_Order.pdf

nope, shouldn't have answered, so deleted.

Like wait...just two more weeks? Is this another 15 days to slow the spread? 
 
 

Certainly your guess is as good as mine. But I don't think the stay will be granted. Remember, this is not a re-trial. The defendant moves for an appeal in the district USCA (step one). They submit documents supporting the request for the stay to the court (step 2) Either the entire court or a single judge can review the material and make a decision sequentially on both steps. Based on what I know of that submission, I've already argued it is a weak appeal (step one). On that basis alone and if I'm correct about the strength of the appeal, the USCA will defer to Judge Merryday's ruling and not entertain step 2.
While the defendant can submit documents and testimony to support a stay, I don't think the USCA can move ahead to consider that if the Judge(s) rule that the grounds for an appeal that I listed in my previous post are not satisfied and I don't think they will be.
I disagree with this argument. Let's take a look at the argument that congress has recognized the (CDC's) authority by adopting a law that relies on the CSO as part of the law. Judge Merryday shot this argument down when the CDC's lawyers presented it. Why he did that is contained in his ruling. There was some case law cited on this specific argument in Merryday's ruling. The precedent was established in several other cases where similar arguments were presented to the court and the rulings did not support them.
Let's look at your scope of authority argument. You are correct. He provided a history lesson in his ruling but that was for the purpose of illuminating the precedent setting case law that limited the CDC's authority. Merryday ruled that precedent certainly did not authorize the CDC to shut down an entire industry's shipping operations for the period of time that they did. This was one of the five claims FL made in it's original law suit and it was firmly supported in Merryday's ruling. I will grant that the USCA's roll is to determine if the law was interpreted and applied correctly so, Merryday's ruling in this specific instance is subject to review.   
Next you ask, " they don't have the authority unless they use it in a way he agrees with?" Yes, the role of a federal judge is to do precisely what he did....... interpret the law using precedent, where it is available, to determine, in this case if the CDC has the authority to do what they did. Merryday ruled they did not and what they did do was, in fact, create law, the CSO, that only the US congress has the authority to make. This is a classic, and entirely correct, interpretation of the separation of powers provisions in the US Constitution and laws between the 4 branches of government.
I'm arguing that:
Defendant's haven't presented sufficient evidence that the Merryday trial wasn't fair and/or he interpreted the law incorrectly to grant the appeal (step one). Pretty sure they have to cross that bar before a judge will entertain and review documents supporting the CDC's request for a stay Failing that, a request for a stay can't be granted (step 2) The clock is ticking on FL's request to Judge Merryday for an emergency hearing. For all intent and purpose, that was granted. Since the CDC gave Merryday the finger, refusing to rewrite a CSO that comported with existing law, and filed an appeal with the USCA, if the appeal is denied, and I think it will be, and a stay not granted, the CSO becomes unenforceable recommendations in 11 days on July 18th.      TBF, my argument has no more or no less value than @MrMarc's. JMO, YMMV.

I still think someone at the CDC had a bad cruise experience.  Spouse hooked up with another guest, marriage ended, nasty divorce.  All the fault of the cruise.

If the CDC want to stop variants from coming into the US then shut down air travel as that is how it is getting in now .. duh.

If the CDC want to stop variants from coming into the US then shut down air travel as that is how it is getting in now .. duh.

OK, great. Not unexpected although I thought the Merryday ruling was lock tight and I think the US Court of Appeals (USCA) will say the same thing and defer to the lower courts decision.
An apeal isn't a new trial. Becerra cannot introduce nw evidence or add addtional testimony. Reading the documents, they did just that. It is entirely possible that the appeal, once it is reviewed by the USCA, is heard and the defendants are told, sorry no dice. The Merryday ruling is affirmed.
So, what's the time lime? Lets go back to the original suit filed by the stat of FL. You'll recall that FL moved and was granted an expedited (emergency) hearing. That was more or less granted. The CDC lawyers presented their arguments, Merryday considered them in light of the state of FL's submissions and arguments and sent the CDC packing. Subsequently Merryday said you have until July 2nd to submit a rewrite of the CSO that conforms with your authority granted under U.S.C. 42, Chapter 264.  Then the CDC asked for an extension and Merry day gave them until 7/22. The clock is still ticking on that original FL request for an expedited hearing.
I'm not entirely sure but I think submitting an appeal makes everything Merryday instructed the CDC to do (rewrite the CSO) moot. It now moves to the USCA with the clock ticking and if the appeal fails, and I feel confident it will, Merryday will default to enjoin the CSO. This will turn oout to be a failed last ditch effort by the CDC in all or nothing sort of circumstance. The CDC will get NOTHING.
You'll recall Merryday's ruling included the conclusion that the FL suit would prevail on it's merits. Only a successful appeal can change that.  No way to predict but it is such a weak appeal, technically flawed (more testimony and more evidence submitted - can't do that) and the FL request for an exeditied hearing clock is still ticking. I suspect if it is a possibility, the USCA simply won't hear it..... I think that's how it works. The USCA can do that. It shuts down the CDC and invites Merryday to move forward with enjoing the CSO 
Given this chain of historical events in the case and what I think is the outcome of the appeal if it is even heard (see above) - go directly to jail, do not pass go - the CSO gets enjoined. It could be a couple of days, weeks or months and I think the former - in weeks rather than days -  is more likely.
Look, this is typical legal maneuvering so, fine. Becerra wants to drag this out until the CSO expires and he and the CDC don't have egg on their faces.  But on the merits, its's ridiculous and a waste of the court's time. Gut feeling tells me the judge sitting on this case at the USCA will see that.
Let's move along here people.   

It’s about ego and control.  Can’t let it go.

Multiple test cruises are most certainly redundant and not necessary.
But, the CDC says so (at least for another 3 weeks)

In a general sense, federal judges have enormous power to interpret the law and make sure it comports with the US constitution. In this specific case (1) Judge Merryday interpreted the current laws governing Free pratique ..... essentially the license given to a ship to enter a port on the assurance that she is free from contagious diseases. (2) He ruled that HHS/CDC is neither granted the extent of power they usurped by imposing the CSO on the cruise industry in the US Constitution or by congress  (3) He concluded the CSO is a defacto law and CDC can't make laws. Congress does.
Next on the basis of the argument above, he enjoins the CSO then suspends it to July 18th giving the CDC a chance to clean up their act. He has leverage. He sets conditions including a demand that the CDC present an updated CSO that contains requirements that are within the law that limits what the CDC can and cannot do. He adds that the CDC can't just come up with requirements that aren't based on the current science, something they did in the CSO and have done frequently since the start of the pandemic. For example, the CDC offered a lot of stale science (i.e., not accounting for vaccines) as the underlying basis for many of the non-sensical regulations they imposed on cruise ships.
The judge is not making an "interpretation of the science" he is applying accepted standards that determine if a study is scientific. For example, the CDC presented as evidence to the court a report that a cruise ship is 62% more likely to experience a COVID outbreak than similar congregate settings like a prison, nursing home or a hospital. That study was not in the public domain or published, had not been peer-reviewed, two of several requirements for a study to be properly identified as scientific. It's simply not valid as proof or fact under those circumstances.
On the role of the judiciary: if you have the time and are interested you can go here and brush up on your civics.
https://www.crf-usa.org/images/pdf/challenge/The-Role-of-the-Judiciary.pdf

Are they now offering an Unlimited Drug Package? ?

Go look over at the Odyssey of the Seas November 15 Roll call, we posted the pictures and discussed these rooms over there.

Ah there it is, thanks. Buried deep in the "I hope no one notices this" section

Wait we are on the Inaugural US sailing .. what the, how the, FFS just get me on a ship! 

Can we then go back to the 9 night we already had for the Nov 11th aka 15th cruise?