crisgold52

This is why i don't think there will be any issues reducing capacity.  Many guests will choose not to sail, they won't need to cancel select guests to achieve 50% capacity.

There's gonna be so much tension on the first sailings, I can't even imagine it'll be enjoyable. If they strictly enforce it, some people will be pissed, if they don't, other people will be mad.

Just saw the news. ? I’m not sailing until May but I feel for all of you with Holiday cruises. 

it was so funny, she was checking my Freedom cruise for May and we were chatting and she said yes, we cancelled till Nov 30th.  She said they announced it at 4PM.  Looks at clock, whoops it's only 3:45PM!?

Possibly but I'd say it's more about the CDC in the faces of Robert Redfield, Director of the CDC, Doctors Deborah Birx and Anthony Fauci, all of them very publicly and frequently appearing in interviews with main-stream media types, protecting the ground they've staked out on this. These people do believe in what they've put out there, none of it particularly flawed. The politics start to have an impact when a willfully combative president throws them under the bus. That is going to prompt defensive responses from these people who have reputations to protect.
Pence can side step all of that if he handles it correctly and if there is anyone who can, it's him ...... assuming he's given the president's blessing to handle it.

I honestly believe if the CDC had the power and could have it's way we would all be locked down in our homes.
They are doing what they believe will prevent spread.  From a purely public health perspective they are correct, locking everyone in their homes and shutting down most businesses like China did will temporarily slow spread.  
I am in no way suggesting we should do that, rather I am simply recognizing that extreme approach would temporarily slow spread.  Given that vacation travel is non-essential the CDC hasn't been challenged with respect to the cruise ship lockdown until recently when the Corona Virus Task Force stepped in.
The CDC doesn't have direct power or control over places like Disney World.  If they did have the power DW would also be shut down (until the task force stepped in).  
So I don't see the action of the CDC as a prejudice against a specific industry.   I don't like it but I also recognize they may be saving the industry from itself.  Absent of the protocols the industry has been forced to adopt ships would have sailed without all of these protocols and the damage to the industry would have been catastrophic.  
The industry has proven itself incapable of self regulating which is why the VSP exists today (Vessel Sanitation Program).  You can't fault the CDC for not trusting the industry when it comes to operating during a pandemic.  The industry brought this on itself.  

I don't disagree that the cruise lines want to operate by the letter of the law, and that it would mitigate most risk... I just see how a majority of Americans act and behave on an everyday basis, and have no faith in those protocols being followed to the level they need to be.

Guess we will have to "Stay Tuned"...just a matter of time for RCG to join in with their own cancellations ?.   Heartbreaking!!!!

I would love cruising to resume but that is a personal, emotional viewpoint.  
The CDC continues to express concern of the combined effects of the upcoming flu season overlaid with the pandemic.  Their position hasn't changed even if their cruise ship order was overridden last week.  The CDC defines the peak of flu season as being December through February.  The CDC proposed extension was through February 2021 which coincides with the end of the peak flu season.   There appears to be logic and science behind their approach, it wasn't just some arbitrary date.  
From a political viewpoint the WH hasn't always followed CDC guidance and the the results have proven costly in terms of political capital.  Before the president became infected it was relatively easy and consistent for the task force to oppose the CDC and reverse it's desire to extend the cruising ban into 2021. 
The political landscape changed once POTUS caught the virus.  It's 4 weeks to an election and POTUS isn't out on the campaign trail.  He can't.  That has caused the VP to shift his focus and put more effort into the election.  As a result he won't have his focus on activities like meeting with the cruise industry.
At the moment it's all about undecided voters.  Decided voters have already cast their vote in their head.  Can they swing undecided voters by overriding the CDC so that cruise ships can sail?  My thoughts are no.  There is a lot of risk putting their necks out and going against the CDC in the wake of the POTUS catching the virus.  Another public display stymying the CDC for cruise ships which have a pretty negative connotation as it relates to the pandemic looks like political suicide.   Given that resources are so thin now with Pence on the campaign trail during Trump's absence will the significant political capital spent to go against the CDC help their election effort?   I think it could cause undecided to lean left and such a brazen tactic such as allowing cruising to commence could even be the last straw that swings some decided voters against them.
The campaign has so little time left.  They need to be very diligent choosing where to spend political capital.   I just don't see that helping the cruise industry right now, that can't be a priority activity that's going to help them win the election.  
I personally believe that individuals should have choices so long as it doesn't create undue burden on society.  The CDC might be right about the upcoming flu season combined with the pandemic stretching healthcare resources very thin.  A repeat of a Diamond or Grand Princess outbreak during flu season in a pandemic could be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.  On the other hand I'm hoping that with increased handwashing, hand sanitizer use and the mask use that is occuring in society right now it might lead to one of the lowest flu seasons we've experienced lately.  I have no hard data to support that theory, it's just a hope.  The problem is we won't know until February or March.  

Trump becoming infected with the virus has mucked up what I believe was a White House plan, w/Pence in the lead,  to allow cruise lines to begin to prepare for a November 1st restart. That restart to be on the limited basis we are all familiar with.  Before that, I thought there was a very good chance we'd have a reduced number of sailings in November with those gradually expanding in December. Now chances of that look slim ...... unless the WH reconvenes the meeting with cruise execs this coming week. A meeting might foreshadow a restart; the lack of a meeting probably means doom.
The resumption of cruising in Europe and Asia, pressures resulting from the sheer economics of the Caribbean travel industry to re-open Caribbean ports, are positives. That ports are already open in Europe and might open in the Caribbean would allow the major cruise lines that have ships in warm-storage in adjacent waters there an opportunity to assemble crew. From there they could conduct training and proof-of-concept trial runs with employees acting as passengers. Those could occur before repositioning ships in European and Caribbean waters to North American ports once they are opened.
Keep in mind, we're talking about only a very few ships actually doing something like this as the logistics of such a plan are complex. It could take months to get even one-half of the global fleet of cruise ships operational. As well, the complexity of opening ports and anchorages and then deconflicting itineraries to lessen crowding in those places to be visited is considerable.
The timing though is becoming critical and as the days in October pass by, hope for a North American restart in November will fade. 

The White House has basically just proven that testing isn't an effective mitigation step to stop the spread.  So what does that mean for cruise lines that were counting on testing to be an important step in making cruising safe?   With the current situation with the President's infection will the WH still stand up to the CDC?  Only time will tell.  
If I was a cruise line I'd be hesitant to begin bringing thousands of crew back for two ships until there was an absolute green light from the CDC or CV Task Force that a restart is a sure thing.  

Even if things are allowed to start - guessing cruise lines would only begin with 1 or 2 ships for the first cruises.  Due to personnel issues (cleared and trained crews),  logistics including port availability, and to  minimize risk if protocols break down.   Those first cruises will be to test procedures - so min exposure, minimum number of ships.

I wonder if the meeting in DC is still on today given what’s going on....

I share your opinion.  Using an arbitrary start up date is becoming meaningless.  The date can have no tie to any assurance the effects of the infection are curbed/mitigated or not.   At the start of this, it made sense from a financial (stock market) perspective.  It provided breathing space for these publicly traded companies to present some level of confidence to investors that operations restart are "just a quarter away".  The gov't didn't want to further contribute to the financial degradation of these industries.   The month-to-month delays will soon no longer protect valuation slide and the gov't will need to either allow cruise lines to operate (at some level) or allow them to go under.

In Canada, they will kick you off the flight and ban you for ONE YEAR from flying....even kids under 2 have to wear masks and if they don't they kick them off the plane and cancel the flight, its a hot mess right now and is only going to get worse, i could see our 2 national airlines going bankrupt or need a government bailout by this winter.....you defn don't want to be flying in Canada any time soon.....

Our Nov 1st cruise is out of Port Canaveral and we won't be driving - too much add-on for us - extra vacation days, extra dog care (3 dogs), added hotel cost, wear and tear on car, etc.  I align with @twangster - I think flying day of (embark/debark) is our best option under the current conditions.  But we are 31 days out today and have not booked our airfare - we still don't know if we are sailing...

That and insurance coverage for COVID-19.  Just spoke to my travel agent.  There is COVID-19 coverage available to purchase as a stand-alone policy but any form of cruise travel is excluded.  

I live in Fort Lauderdale. Let's be clear here. Desantis has never said that masks are not required. Nor has he said, "Florida is being opened." Desantis from the beginning, while formulating and promulgating guidance for FL by phases, has said the imposition of mitigation measures, including masks, is at the discretion of local county and city officials and should be based on local data. How measures implemented are enforced is also a local decision. All of the three counties that make up what is known as S. FL - Palm Beach, Miami Dade and Broward (home of Port Everglades) counties have distancing, masking and sanitation mitigation measures in place and consistent with CDC and state guidelines for them. All of them are being enforced either with citations, fines or both. 
What Desantis did last Friday was announce the state is "moving to Phase III" - a precisely defined phase that the state can move to when certain gating criteria are met. The statewide percent positive rate has been at or below 5% for 14 consecutive dates. Even the Tri-County region of S. FL has had positivity rates below 5% although Miami-Dade popped above it for the last 7d rolling average (6%). He also ordered that counties and cities can no longer cite with a criminal charge or fine businesses or individuals who don't follow a standing mitigation measure emergency order. Miami-Dade has announced that it will continue to do so and is working with the Governor's office to allow them to do it based on the perceived public health risks in that county- The Miami-Dade County Mayor has to submit what objectifiable Public Health benefit is being derived from that policy and what are the economic costs to businesses of restricting their operations, citing and fining. IOW an appropriate calculation of Risk/Cost/Benefit.
For now, Broward County and Fort Lauderdale are safe places to be. Residents are, for the most part, masking, distancing and acting responsibly. The vulnerable are being protected and people in that group are taking the virus seriously by avoiding unnecessary exposures. So are businesses who have made it clear that they aren't just flinging their doors open to party goers as if COVID-19 never existed. That's what the press wants you to think and it appears, given your post, that they are succeeding.       

I think the biggest part is that this is the easy one for them to control. If we really were going to stop people congregating together churches would still be closed. But that’s a third rail. Airplanes are confined situation, but they are American companies with huge lobbying organizations behind them. 

It's fair that the forum rules don't support political discussions and I can easily adhere to those rules but to think that this whole shut down is not at least as much political as it is health based would not pass the smell test.  The emerging stories, Royal hiring a Government Relations expert, the different port authorities making their comments heard, CLIA weighing in, even some other line's CEO's speaking out, it's all too much.  The writing is on the wall with what's actually happening and we can safely say that without weighing in on the actual politics of it.   

I know it doesn't change the fact we are all not sailing but it is a different type of frustration compared to just waiting for the health factors to be sorted out.  

 

I'm supposed to cruise this Nov. 8 to the Western Caribbean. 7 night cruise. I still have not received any word about it, but I'm betting it will not happen. Not sure now if I want to go if they have a lot of restrictions. I want no masks, no social distancing, etc... I have a funny feeling cruising as we once knew it wont be normal (if we're lucky) until 2022.

One employees an entire state, the other is a leisure activity. Go scroll back in reddit/las vegas, the citizens were pissed when they reopened,  and the workers did feel safe.

And they remained open, and are now having their lowest deaths since June. My point is that the CDC is essentially playing favorites while saying they are protecting us, but it's pretty hard to believe them right now.

vegas's reopening saw an enormous spike in cases 2 weeks after the fact

Trying to leave politics out of it, but simply by comparison, restricting cruises now, and especially until February, makes no sense. I think Vegas is the closest land based approximation of a cruise. 
- Trying to keep people in a small bubble (the Strip)
- Casinos, fine dining, hotel rooms
- Visiting different destinations during the day but returning to home base at night
- Live shows (currently closed in Vegas due to COVID, but scheduled to return in November.)
 
Vegas is open (with restrictions like social distancing and masks). I see no reason that is not politically motivated for either 
A. It's not dangerous. Cruises can reopen like Vegas, Walt Disney World, etc.
B. It's too dangerous. Cruises should stay closed, and Vegas, Disney World, theme parks, need to close down as well.
Having said that, my trust that the CDC is doing this out of goodwill for our safety is very low.