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twangster

Proposed Restrictions for Guests Over 70

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My wife and I are 70+. We both have conditions listed in the medical certification. But it asks the HCP to say that this person "does not suffer from any chronic illness (e.g. heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS or diabetes) which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)/COVID-19."

What HCP is going to certify this? The potential liability is tremendous. 

So, we cancelled our Majesty cruise for 28 March from NO. If anyone needs a nice 1BR Grand Suite, there is one available. 

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32 minutes ago, rjweber3 said:

My wife and I are 70+. We both have conditions listed in the medical certification. But it asks the HCP to say that this person "does not suffer from any chronic illness (e.g. heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS or diabetes) which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)/COVID-19."

What HCP is going to certify this? The potential liability is tremendous. 

So, we cancelled our Majesty cruise for 28 March from NO. If anyone needs a nice 1BR Grand Suite, there is one available. 

To clarify why they want HCP to certify as you can have a certain listed condition but it may not be chronic but might be acute:

- Acute conditions are severe and sudden in onset. This could describe anything from a broken bone to an asthma attack.

- Chronic condition, by contrast is a long-developing syndrome, such as osteoporosis or asthma.

** Note that osteoporosis, a chronic condition, may cause a broken bone, an acute condition.

Hope this helps clarify things.

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3 hours ago, Jim S said:

I received an email this morning from RCCL stating that from Monday March 16th all persons aged 70 or older need to obtain doctors certification that they are fit to cruise before being allowed onboard. They issued the following template letter to take to my doctor for, would you believe, my cruise on Jewel of the Seas on Monday March 16th, which was cancelled a couple of days ago. 😂😡

By the way, it takes 2-3 weeks to get such a letter from my doctor and they charge £30 for this. 😂

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I had a patient this morning present this to me at his appointment.

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1 minute ago, Jolly Ogre said:

I had a patient this morning present this to me at his appointment.

I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. 😂😡

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6 minutes ago, Jim S said:

I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. 😂😡

So sorry.

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1 hour ago, Jim S said:

I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. 😂😡

Sorry to hear that. We have to evaluate our pts individually and when we do things like this it is not because we don't care, its because we do care.

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3 minutes ago, Jolly Ogre said:

Sorry to hear that. We have to evaluate our pts individually and when we do things like this it is not because we don't care, its because we do care.

You sound like a great physician and human being, Dr. Ogre, I loved what you said. 

Thank you 🙂 

My sister is a nurse, so I have the upmost respect for people who work in health care.

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2 hours ago, Jolly Ogre said:

I had a patient this morning present this to me at his appointment.

Without violating any confidentiality issues, can you tell us how you handled it ?  I would think that it would be difficult, much like @Jim S said, to make such a broad statement.  Interesting, from the Physician’s perspective.

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On 3/13/2020 at 3:17 PM, WAAAYTOOO said:

Without violating any confidentiality issues, can you tell us how you handled it ?  I would think that it would be difficult, much like @Jim S said, to make such a broad statement.  Interesting, from the Physician’s perspective.

We have to evaluate our pts individually and make decisions on a case by case basis.

In his case he was ok to travel, however RCCL has canceled his cruise now, so the point is moot.

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OK, here's a probability for me (72 yrs old with mild COPD).  We're booked for April 26 and I know my Doctor will not accept liability by signing a letter stating that I'm not at risk.  So RCCL gives me a FCC.  If my Doctor won't sign now, it's even less likely he'll sign in the future.  What good is a FCC if you're never able to use it?

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This is just a personal opinion....based on nothing more than common sense.  It is my belief that the "Dr. note" scenario will quietly slip away.  It might have sounded like a reasonable plan when some bean counter devised it, but honestly, it's not workable.  As you said, MOST doctors are not going to declare that a passenger is "fit to cruise" - there's no way to truly verify that.  What does it even mean ?  It's too broad of a declaration.  If they quietly change the form to remove that declaration and only ask the HCP to verify any chronic ongoing health issues, it might work.  Then the passenger could sign a statement not to hold the cruise line liable (I also realize those are not worth the paper they are printed on) and leave it at that.  There is always risk for both the passenger and the cruise line.  Ship happens.  But this Dr. note thing is not workable in the big scheme.  IMO.  Is this REALLY the time to be asking HCP to sign silly waivers for cruisers ?  I think they have waaay more important things to do right now.

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2 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

This is just a personal opinion....based on nothing more than common sense.  It is my belief that the "Dr. note" scenario will quietly slip away.  It might have sounded like a reasonable plan when some bean counter devised it, but honestly, it's not workable.

I thought the doctor note thing was devised by the CLIA to appease the government so they could continue to operate.  I can see it going away eventually as the situation improves and life goes back to normal, but it may linger a bit even after cruising resumes to, again, appease the government so they can start back up again.

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41 minutes ago, AshleyDillo said:

I thought the doctor note thing was devised by the CLIA to appease the government so they could continue to operate.  I can see it going away eventually as the situation improves and life goes back to normal, but it may linger a bit even after cruising resumes to, again, appease the government so they can start back up again.

That is also what I have read....so it may have to be "OKed" by the CLIA to get it removed.  I still think it is completely impractical and a bit discriminatory.

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3 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I still think it is completely impractical and a bit discriminatory

Me too! I'm over 70, so I'm going to cancel my three cruises this year, take my ball and go home. I'll show the bastards........:3_grin::27_sunglasses:

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Watch out over 70’s - even if your doctor signs that you are fit to travel on a cruise holiday, if the government guidelines are saying that 70 and overs should not travel, then if you don’t follow the guidelines it may invalidate your holiday insurance cover.

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Honestly, I think this ridiculous paperwork requirement is going to have much longer negative impact on cruising than the CV19 will.  How short-sighted !  The only thing this did was make the bean counters feel better in the short term.  In the long term it's going to ruin cruising for the cruiselines' bread and butter.  Utter nonsense.

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On 17 March 2020 at 1:17 PM, WAAAYTOOO said:

Honestly, I think this ridiculous paperwork requirement is going to have much longer negative impact on cruising than the CV19 will.  How short-sighted !  The only thing this did was make the bean counters feel better in the short term.  In the long term it's going to ruin cruising for the cruiselines' bread and butter.  Utter nonsense.

Yes, it is rediculous. Many fit and well 70's and over will not be able to cruise while RCCL persist with this requirement. I know that I will not be able to cruise again on RCCL until they remove this requirement and I have two more cruises booked at the moment. I may have to cancel them and I certainly won't be booking any more until the situation changes.

Seems like RCCL may have shot themselves in the foot this time.

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36 minutes ago, Jim S said:

Yes, it is rediculous. Many fit and well 70's and over will not be able to cruise while RCCL persist with this requirement. I know that I will not be able to cruise again on RCCL until they remove this requirement and I have two more cruises booked at the moment. I may have to cancel them and I certainly won't be booking any more until the situation changes.

Seems like RCCL may have shot themselves in the foot this time.

CLIA made the recommendation based on the meeting with the VP.  The cruise lines followed the White House and CLIA on this one.  

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4 minutes ago, twangster said:

CLIA made the recommendation based on the meeting with the VP.  The cruise lines followed the White House and CLIA on this one.  

I understand.  That doesn't make it any less of a knee-jerk reaction in times of crisis that accomplishes nothing...

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Just now, WAAAYTOOO said:

I understand.  That doesn't make it any less of a knee-jerk reaction in times of crisis that accomplishes nothing...

If you see the interview that Goldstein did he offers it was "suggested" by Pence in the meeting so they submitted it as a recommendation.  At the time the White House was trying to find a compromise instead of a complete cruise ban.  It's easy to look back now and say the White House should have just shut down the cruise lines.  At the time we all believed it primarily or only impacted elderly so in that context it was an olive branch to allow cruise lines to stay open.  Hindsight is 20-20.   

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On 3/13/2020 at 12:00 PM, Jim S said:

I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. 😂😡

Legality issues with signing.....I suspect more physicians will be leary about signing such a decretive.

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2 hours ago, twangster said:

CLIA made the recommendation based on the meeting with the VP.  The cruise lines followed the White House and CLIA on this one.  

Well, we also have 3 upcoming cruises with P&O (Carnival Group) and they have not asked for this declaration.

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1 minute ago, Jim S said:

Well, we also have 3 upcoming cruises with P&O (Carnival Group) and they have not asked for this declaration.

P&O doesn't homeport many ships in the US.  If anything they'll follow European or UK government guidance.

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