jeffmw

I've never had an issue with traffic at Port Miami. South Beach is a quick drive to the port -- probably a half hour tops with traffic, but could be as little as 15 minutes. 

Maybe I've just been lucky but the port has always seemed to move traffic through somewhat quickly. Not dissimilar to an airport. 

This is typically fairly bad for consumers. For example, in Cleveland where I live, Frontier and Spirit both maintain a decent number of routes to vacation destinations. With one fewer airline (a discount airline, at that), prices will likely get less competitive.

When do the packages initially become available? A year from sailing date?

I'm booked for Wonder for March 2023 and I'm not getting options to book any drink or dining packages yet. 

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Per their quarterly results posted today, the plan is for full capacity to return in the third quarter of 2022.

Yea.. and last time they said they were going to be at something like 60 or 70% and from what everyone reported here it was clear they were much higher than that over the holidays on some ships. I think they're skewing the numbers to their advantage. By using fleet-wide totals and taking into account the many cruises that, to this point, aren't nearly full due to lower demand and reduced capacity, they give the perception that they're being careful and not filling ships, which eases concerns of some patrons. When, in fact, some ships are full. 

I don't know if that's still the case, but it seemed to be in December. 

One thing I did notice while booking for the Mariner this March is that I don't believe I ever saw two rooms available right next to one another. Many maps had every other room available. For the number of times I saw it on different decks, it leads me to believe it's not a coincidence. So it's likely they're  either: 1) reducing capacity and only allowing spaced rooms to book (although I have to imagine they aren't limiting to 50% capacity), or, more likely, 2) only allowing rooms to be next to one another once every other room fills up. 

33 minutes ago, melmar02 said:

No, they are still not sailing at full capacity. Liberty only has about 1500 guests on it this week while her double occupany is 3800.

Do you have an idea of whether this is because of capacity vs. demand? It's hard to gauge the max capacity this time of year because I don't know that very many cruise ships would be full anyway, even if COVID weren't an issue. It seems like they were trying to stretch it as far as they could during the holidays when they could fill the rooms. 

I'm cruising during spring break and am wondering how much they're going to test capacity at that point, particularly since Omicron is fading. 

This is where having a travel agent can be a negative. Since you booked it through them, they're the only people RCI will talk with about the reservation (I believe). However, if you were able to deal with Royal yourself, this seems like something you could get out of with a little complaining. Royal aren't usually total d*cks about this stuff and they've been particularly accommodating with COVID stuff, at least in my experience. 

I would call Royal yourself and if they won't discuss it with you maybe talk to someone on the ship about it. They can issue pretty decent-sized future cruise credits if you talk to the right person. 

10 hours ago, BeachGal said:

D D, you do you!  I just got off Navigator traveling solo and had a jr. suite.  I placed a minimum bid on Royal Up and got it.  Personally I loved the expedited check-in when boarding, and truly enjoyed all of the space (compared to the interior room I had on my last cruise).  If you have the $$ available for a bid, and want to try it out, why not?

Oh certainly to each their own if you've got the cash to spare. And I didn't think about the other perks of being in a suite (expedited check-in, etc.) -- those are great perks to have. But merely for the purpose of the extra space, I don't know if it's worth it for one person. If you've got a bed, a couch, and a balcony in a stateroom, what else do you really need for the little amount of time you spend there? My thinking was that you can have a great experience doing something off the ship in a cool place for the same money. But I'm not saying she unequivocally shouldn't by any means! It's still a nice perk to have for a little extra money.

I wouldn't bother. Spend the extra cash on an excursion or something. It's extra room, but if you're going solo, you really don't need it. 

I stayed in a Boardwalk Balcony on Symphony. It never got too loud at all unless the Aqua Show was going on. Then you could definitely hear the music, but those shows usually aren't every night and they aren't too long of shows. When there wasn't a show going on, there were people below but if your door was closed I don't remember hearing much noise. 

We were on the 11th deck. I suppose if you are lower it might be a little louder. 

On the positive side, it's a fun view and something a little different than simply an ocean view balcony. Depending on where you are, you can usually see ocean and out behind the ship from your balcony. In the morning, it's actually pretty peaceful back there. We really liked it.  

Something tells me these North Star things might be short-lived as far as installing them on new ships (obviously they didn't find room for one on the Wonder). It sounds like they may be more of a hassle in the long-run with so many potential issues. And I can't imagine who fixes these things when they break down. 

I don't know about weight on the North Star, but I can tell you they are very strict on height on the water slides. There is always someone standing at the base of the stairs. My daughter was 47.5" and that 1/2 inch kept her off the waterslides for the entire week. 

10 minutes ago, dr martini said:

@jeffmw agreed on the promenade and disagree in part on the rest.  we've been on almost all of the voyager class at different times and i've never been on a cruise ship that felt as busy or as full as symphony was spring break March 2019.  a lot of that i'm sure was the spring break of it all, but there were kids running everywhere, top deck was very busy, the usual chair hogs were in full force, lots of tweens in the solarium day and night,  elevators always busy, many onboard attractions booked up before we had the chance to see or book, it was wild.  felt every one of the 6000+ folks onboard.  the only place that didn't feel crazy was thankfully PDCC, vibe was very relaxing there.

I guess it all depends on your standards. I can totally see why anyone would feel the pool deck was busy. It definitely was hectic. But I've got young kids and have been to Disney World many times, not to mention plenty of other places both at home and on vacation where kids are rampant, so maybe it just doesn't register with me as much. As for the elevators, you're definitely correct there. There are very often people waiting for elevators, but isn't that a complaint across most cruise ships? Either way, we almost always take the stairs so it doesn't bother us much. 

Your Solarium experience is interesting, though. The entire time we were on the boat during that cruise, I didn't see one kid in the Solarium other than in the Bistro, where they are allowed. 

13 minutes ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

Here’s a recent scathing article that was written by a maritime lawyer, Jim Walker.  He lists all the horrors people are reading about re this Oasis charter.  https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2022/01/articles/disease/super-spreader-of-the-seas-atlantis-events-makes-a-mockery-of-covid-19-protocols/

I'm not going to go back and forth. You've made your point.

I just want to comment that I can't believe this law firm specializes in "Cruise Law". There really is a business for everything. Blog titled, "Everything Cruise Lines Don't Want You to Know". Does he want people to stop going on cruises? Wouldn't that be bad for business!? Hilarious. I can't wait to read through this. 

2 hours ago, dr martini said:

just saw the front page article stating that wonder will have 100 more staterooms than symphony!  wow.  is that spread across decks or what other significant changes did they make to get those fit?

It's interesting they decided to push this further as far as capacity. I admit, I've been on Symphony when it was 100% full and it didn't feel crowded. Like... at all. The Promenade would get too crowded and hectic in the evenings around and after dinnertime, but I don't remember there ever being long lines or cramped areas anywhere else. Central Park was usually nearly empty. I don't remember the Boardwalk being especially crowded. The pool deck ran out of chairs each day, but it wasn't completely overcrowded or anything. The shows were frequent enough that they were never totally full. 

But, I guess it's a guest's nature to want fewer people aboard. I'm going on Wonder next March during Spring Break, so it's sure to be full. I'll be interested to see how it feels with another few hundred people on board. 

Great thread. Keep them coming!

3 hours ago, Neesa said:

@Matt

@SpeedNoodles

I can't help thinking maybe this thread has run it's course. We are a RCCL fan site ultimately and in my humble opinion I'm not sure anything constructive can be accomplished by keeping this going. Just my 2 cents! 

No offense, but you aren't a moderator. If you don't like this thread then don't read it. 

11 hours ago, MikeMiaFL said:

 

So yeah, everything you're seeing on social media is true, and is actually worse.    Atlantis is known in the community for being over the top, and markets to the "circuit crowd" (rave party scene).    There is also great tension within our community about this cruise, and what it means for a community that was almost wiped out by HIV only a few decades ago.    There are many arguments on Twitter, many people like me that feel it's incredibly irresponsible for our community to be ignoring such an obvious health issue.    I hope this sheds some light when thinking of this cruise in terms of a standard cruise, which it is far from.   

Really interesting perspective, Mike. Thanks for that. 

It's interesting that RCI is willing to let its ship potentially suffer a fair level of destruction simply because the charter makes money. It's also comforting, though, to know that the patrons are known for being polite and generous to staff, and that their disrespect for the ship itself doesn't spread to the people working on the ship.

It also seems, from what you're saying, that Atlantis could absolutely be held liable for a death or serious harm caused by drugs on one of these cruises, and that part of the allure (no pun intended) of this cruise is the drug culture, given the rave-like environment. 

I'm not a part of the community, but I have several family members who are. Particularly, I have a male, gay cousin who doesn't fit into the party-hard, ultra-sexualized stereotype of a gay man. And for the sake of many gay men I know who are like him, I think it's unfortunate this is what the public sees as representation of a "gay cruise", when in fact it's really a "gay party cruise" with emphasis on the party. We shouldn't have the expectation that if you get 5,000 gay men on a boat that this is the inevitable result. These patrons were not simply looking to go on a cruise with other gay men. They are looking for a huge, over-the-top party. 

How many adults are going on the cruise? Another option is to split the adults, put her in a room with one of you, and then just let her stay alone in the second room once you're onboard. Say it's you and your spouse, you would put you and your daughter in one room and your spouse in another. Once you're onboard, there's no one bed checking to see who sleeps where!

10 hours ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

You are comparing this to cases of violence and sexual harassment. Underground illegal drug use is not an environmental factor of what is provided, promised, or created by Atlantis and its not something that Atlantis nor RCI can oversee nor should they be expected to. They are totally absolved by legal precedents.  Intentions can have a lot to do with court judgement and Atlantis, as previously mentioned, does not plan drug parties.  They simply provide the parties that they advertise and do not intend for the drug use to happen on any of their charters.

Again, I'm not making any judgements on Atlantis nor their cruises. I was only saying that they could be held liable for fostering an atmosphere that is potentially dangerous. 

What you're saying, though, is not in line with legal precedent. A promoter or venue does not have to explicitly promote drug use in order to be held liable for an incident at their event.

Here's an example of a case in 2015 when a woman's family sued Live Nation over her drug-related death at a rave-like festival. The case alleged "negligence and a breach of their duties to protect people from distributing or consuming illegal drugs." Basically it's exactly what I said earlier. From a legal standpoint, an event promoter cannot simply say, "I didn't provide the drugs or tell them they should take them, so I'm off the hook."  As the organizer of the event, if it's found they aren't doing enough to stop it, they can be held liable. 

There's no allegation that Live Nation promoted this festival as a drug party. It merely accuses them of not doing enough to protect the people at their event. Live Nation was unable to get the case thrown out and it was settled out of court, which leads one to believe they felt there was substance to the allegations.

Again -- and I cannot stress this enough -- I am not making any judgements on how much Atlantis does to protect its guests. I am merely saying an event promoter or venue absolutely could (and should) be held responsible if they don't do enough to protect their guests, or if they foster an environment that is conducive to dangerous activity. 

2 hours ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

Ok, my dear @jeffmwbut where is that line to be drawn, at what point?  Where should Atlantis or RCI say “oh this drug issue is rampant, we need to increase enforcement!!”  …there is a gray line there.  You cannot assume or have data that accurately predicts or identifies how many in the guest population are drug smugglers or drug users.  Many people on the cruise do not use drugs, such as myself.  Therefore, there should be no special treatment or increase of enforcement when you cannot justify if it is needed in the first place. You have no reliable data, once again.  Oh, ok, someone 3 years ago overdosed and died.  Ok, that is 1 person among the 20,000 guests that Atlantis hosts per year (.00005%).

 

I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't know where the line is, nor do I have any idea how rampant drug use is on Atlantis cruises. It was you who said "yes, a lot of guests do bring on drugs, but this is illegal activity."

I was merely saying that the fact that bringing drugs onto the boat is illegal doesn't necessarily absolve RCI or Atlantis from fault. And legal precedent definitely would back me up on that. Of course, ultimately people are responsible for their own actions, but (and I'm by no means saying this is the case; this is merely hypothetical) if Atlantis were fostering a wild, rave-like atmosphere without sufficient oversight and were turning a blind eye to drug use, they absolutely could be held liable for that, as they should be. 

Event producers, venue operators, etc., can be (and are often) held responsible for failing to uphold a safe atmosphere for its patrons. If a person is sexually assaulted at a concert, the person who assaulted them can obviously be charged, but it's also very common for the promoter or venue to be sued for not maintaining a safe environment. When there is violence or sexual harassment at workplaces, employers are sued all the time for permitting a hostile work environment. Not to get political, but after what happened last January in Washington, investigations aren't just focused on the people who entered the Capitol Building. They're also into whether or not certain individuals/government officials may have incited the behavior. Those people weren't directly involved, but they may have been very directly responsible for creating the atmosphere that allowed it to happen.

I'm not making any judgements on the atmosphere or safety of Atlantis events. I have no idea. You had said a lot of guests bring drugs, so I said that Royal and Atlantis could be held responsible for that. 

Do you have kids? We only cruise Royal (although we've done a couple Disney cruises), but the newest Carnival ships (Mardi Gras and Celebration) look pretty amazing. They're really stepping their game up from that perspective. 

8 hours ago, SeanOfTheSeas said:

I don’t think that this blame is justified. Atlantis does not support drug use on the charter.  They never have.  …yes, a lot of guests do bring on drugs, but this is illegal activity.  Guests are warned not to bring on drugs and of possible consequences in the Cruise Guide that guests are to read before the voyage

Yes, but if people are bringing drugs aboard against guidelines or if drug use is rampant, it's up to Atlantis or RC to enhance enforcement of their policies. You can't absolve yourself of blame simply by making a rule. I'm not saying it's entirely (or even predominantly) their fault. There's an inherent risk to many drugs that every person takes on when using and people make the choice to sneak them aboard against guidelines. But you need to put reasonably sufficient effort into enforcing your policies. 

24 minutes ago, Ray said:

All that and your not even the largest country in North America! Must be really bad for the bigger country over there lol 

And imagine who that small European Country called Russia must feel, i mean they only have twice the land area of the largest country in North America. 

We wont talk about diversity in Europe as you must be using windows 1948 as a search engine 

Yes. I think that's the point. I think many Europeans see 'diversity' as simply 'geography'. Being able to name the countries nearby yours and having been to them doesn't mean you're immersing yourselves in that culture, or that you're particularly tolerant. I'm a big fan of European football/soccer and the things that regularly go on with Euro clubs (not really in the UK, but elsewhere, particularly Eastern Europe) and their supporters getting in trouble for racist chants and harassing black players would never fly in the US. For as many racist idiots as we have here in the US (and we have plenty), if you were to go to an NFL game and scream out, calling a guy the N-word everyone around you would be horrified. 

10 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

What about poor southern Ireland ?  LOL

Oh, there's quite a history there. It's just called Ireland. And they have had some challenges getting along with those neighbors over the years...

14 minutes ago, Ray said:

Thats ok imagine how we feel trying to work out how 1 country (USA) can have over 50 different rules depending what state you are in ( for me its usually a drunken state when on holiday lol)

For easiness England, Scotland and Wales make up Great Britain, when you throw in Northern Ireland then it becomes United Kingdom.

Yes. Not to go off on a tangent, but I feel like people give Americans too tough of a time when it comes to things like geography and culture. Europeans get upset when Americans can't point out a myriad of European countries on a map, but a lot of that is because as Europeans, you guys may have 10 counties within 500 miles of your home. These are regular parts of your existence. You take trains from country to country. In the US, some people live hundreds of miles from the next STATE, let alone country. And those who do live close to other countries, there are only two options: Mexico and Canada -- one of which is barely different from the US. And the same goes as far as culture. It's easy to to be Polish and understand Dutch culture when everyone you live around is white and Christian and Polish. America is a melting pot, and we live increasingly in areas where there may be a dozen races and cultures and religions and languages within a few blocks. Trust me, a kid growing up in Queens may not know whether Rome is a city or a country, but they know the difference between whites (and sometimes Italians, Irish, etc.), blacks, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans, Haitians, Cubans, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc.