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15 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said:

When I see that statement my thought is that we're (nearly) all on a fixed income. My income is fixed by my employer in the form of the salary they pay me. I *might* be able to find a different employer who will pay me a higher fixed income, but I *might* also lose that income.

At least seniors on Social Security have a guaranteed minimum income (unlike those still working) and they get an annual increase that usually mirrors inflation from the previous year. Pay raises in the working world rarely keep up with the increases received by those on a "fixed income."

(Okay - off my semantics-based soapbox).

To hop back on the semantics soapbox:

I see "fixed" as unable to be changed based on your circumstances. The income cannot be increased or decreased due to promotion, performance, etc. Hence "fixed". 

I eagerly await the next person to claim the soapbox.

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The OP is upset but he didn’t sign up for the boards to explain his problem and ask for help/guidance/insight anything that might solve his issue.  No, he just ranted.  My guess is this is the same attitude he presented to Royal and you don’t get anywhere that way.

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

When I see "I'm a senior, on a fixed income" the first thing that pops in my head is ... why are you booking a cruise vacation if you can't afford a cruise vacation?  Fixed income or not, don't put a deposit down on something you can't afford.  

 

Royal is not an insurance company.  The insurance company they resold to you did not refund the insurance policy.  That's in the terms and conditions.  In theory you had coverage from the moment you booked the cruise.  If a covered event occured before the pandemic hit you could have used the insurance.  Just because you didn't make a claim in that period does not make insurance refundable.  However in my case in the same situation the insurance company through Royal offered to transfer coverage to another booking.  

I know you want to hate Royal, but insurance is on the actual insurance company policy.  

 

Respectfully, I don’t hate Royal I simply don’t trust them.  They are an inanimate entity trying to conserve as much cash as possible to survive.  It’s been a tough few years.  I’m well aware of the players I was dealing with and well versed in the third party contract Royal was selling.  It’s a very powerful and safe position to take for each entity, as they can point you off to the other guy.  “He who controls the contract wins”.   So let’s play…..

The facts are simple. I have given Royal, AON, and ARCH a combined $1,516 for a cruise that never took place.   I have effectively given Royal a $1,000 interest free loan for 24+ months.  Which they will pocket if I don’t book with them before the end of the year.  Not a perfect situation, but I understand what I have.

 Separately, I have also given a combined $516 in a nice insurance commission kiss to Royal that they took straight to the bottom line, along with the underwriter and the insurance agency of record.  100% profit for a cruise that never happened and was canceled by them.  As such, very limited, if any loss exposure is a pretty sweet deal for everyone except the consumer.

I am well aware of which state each insurance entity is domiciled in and have had detailed discussions with the New Jersey, Florida, and Indiana regulators of record.  I am well aware of the transfer of risks that has taken place across each legal entity involved and loss ratios enjoyed by the companies.

You are correct, and I agree with your statement, “In theory I had coverage from the moment I booked the cruise.”  But that is not as powerful of a statement as you may think.  What does this really mean and what is the actually potential loss expose of this specific coverage given the circumstances surrounding the cancelation by the cruise line.  What does this really mean when talking about travel / cruise insurance and more importantly, a cruse that that never happened?   

What does coverage from day one mean in this case? That is the root issue.  Many on the travel insurance side of this discussion have tried to correlate this travel policy to other types of “Day One” insurance coverage such as Auto coverage.  This is nothing like auto insurance and give us an excellent example of why this is so different.

With auto insurance you have an asset that is being covered day one along with related covered liabilities on day one.  All of which could incur a full massive claim the second you purchased the vehicle and entered into an insurance policy.  Second, the guy you purchased the car from cannot cancel the purchase after you have taken ownership.

With cruise coverage, the potential losses exposure to the carrier changes over time.  That is, you make your deposit at time of booking, you make your full payment 90 days before the sail date, you then actually take your cruise which then, and only then, opens up additional items that are covered by the policy.

These are two vastly different things.

My policy was only active for a few months before RCCL canceled the cruise.  So what was the real exposer to a loss during the actual coverage time period?  Well, you can argue all day long that I purchased a market basket of covered for various allowable claims / coverage.  However, if RCCL / AON is going to place their argument on the concept of coverage from day one, there certainly could not be any actual cruise related claims.  That is, no lost luggage, no medical claims while traveling, no transportation back home, no cool helicopter ride off the front of the ship, and or other items covered due to the actual cruise taking place. 

So in this example, what was their real lose exposure in my case?  My $1,000 deposit?  Or was it Zero since I entered in to the FCC agreement?   What did I pay for this coverage? $516.  In the worst case, No rational individual would pay a 50% coverage rate.  Plus regulators would deem this rate abusive – and that opens up an entirely different problem for RCCL and AON.

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For every action there is a reaction. No one can 100% guarantee that the reaction will be one way or another. 

People come to this site expecting a lot of sympathy......which baffles me because @Matt blogs are designed to offer the most amount of information possible while erring on the positive side. It is as if they don't look at anything but the RCG blog title and post without even glances at the topics. IMHO they get what they deserve. There is access to too much information for people to be that lazy. It's exactly what the whole thing is, laziness, as even a basic search will provide info. 

I also agree that if you are on a fixed income, you need to do better. You know you won't be getting any more or less, so you should plan your purchases accordingly. Especially if you are a senior with medical issues. I manage my grandmother, who is a senior and on fixed income, affairs. Every month I have to deal with some financial cautionary tale with her but even she reads the fine print.......she has to have me explain it, but at least she tries.

 

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My first cancelled cruise, June 2020. I had Vacation Protection with Royal. After everything else was either an FCC or refunded I had not gotten a refund for the Protection Plan. I called Royal and they did refund it. My next four cancelled cruises were through a TA and a third party Insurance. The third party insurance gave me credits which I've since used for the four cruises I've taken since October. 

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9 hours ago, SPS said:

I really don't like when this happens on this site. All too often, people join just to rant in absolute anger about getting "screwed over" because they had not done their due diligence.

Just as @smokeybandit said, this was going to be the outcome with any of the cruise lines when you book with a non-refundable deposit.

The truly sad part is that many of the "Join/Rant/Leave" members, as I like to call them, don't return after typing their vitriol to get what could actually be some useful advise.

i.e, Cruise With Confidence, only book refundable fares, travel insurance, etc.

This message board is so friendly and so helpful and I don’t know anyone personally but I like you all.  This being said it’s like going to let’s say a streak house but telling the waitress I’m vegan huh why are you here then don’t come on a board where you look for trouble or conflict it’s rude and takes up reading energy!

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7 hours ago, twangster said:

When I see "I'm a senior, on a fixed income" the first thing that pops in my head is ... why are you booking a cruise vacation if you can't afford a cruise vacation?  Fixed income or not, don't put a deposit down on something you can't afford.  

Wow.  I'm amazed at such a statement.  I remember scrimping and saving for a vacation and if something happened to prevent me from going and losing a good chunk of that money I would have been devastated. It doesn't mean I couldn't afford a vacation.  There are people who open travel club (vacation accounts) at their local banks, just like a Christmas club, where they put money into it for the purpose of the account.    Not everyone has extra funds to cover the cost of unforeseen events.

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7 hours ago, HeWhoWaits said:

When I see that statement my thought is that we're (nearly) all on a fixed income. My income is fixed by my employer in the form of the salary they pay me. I *might* be able to find a different employer who will pay me a higher fixed income, but I *might* also lose that income.

At least seniors on Social Security have a guaranteed minimum income (unlike those still working) and they get an annual increase that usually mirrors inflation from the previous year. Pay raises in the working world rarely keep up with the increases received by those on a "fixed income."

(Okay - off my semantics-based soapbox).

I guess you either have a FANTASTIC social security payment (which according to the SSA is $3,895 a month OR you don't collect.
"As of October 2021 (the most recently available month), the average Social Security check benefit for retired workers was $1,562.66 per month"
"For 2021, the SSA expects to pay a 
maximum benefit of $3,895 per month to retirees who delayed their benefits until age 70 and who earned maximum taxable earnings since age 22.4""  The chart for the maximum monthly earnings to earn the top payment , is here.....https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/examplemax.html

Factor in the cost of a mortgage (if this person still has one), car payment (if they have one), car insurance (higher rates for older folks) , homeowners insurance, medical insurance (in addition to Medicare that covers only 80%), real estate taxes, school taxes, food, gas, clothing and  those SS dollar amounts are not "living wages" (which SS was never meant to be, but is for some people)
Feel free to check out the Cost of Living Adjustment rates that reflect inflation.
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/info-2020/colas-history.html  add it to the paltry payment and it's still "paltry".

(I'll get off my "reality based  soapbox" now)

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Get well soon !!! 


Isn't it an option to re-schedule the cruise at least you won't lose your money that way ? I'm sure you can work something out by calling Royal, they are in general very understanding but they have to act between the rules.

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2 hours ago, JasonOasis said:

Exactly what I'm thinking another hit and run, probably the same person who did several hit and runs last week.

When I see people complaining, either on message boards or while being interviewed by the press, about a bad vacation using a combination of certain key words and phrases;

Seniors/Diabled
Fixed Income   
Recent Serious Medical Issues   
“Nobody told us!”  
***here’s the big one….IT WAS OUR TRIP OF A LIFETIME!  
 

Sorry, but it makes me a little suspicious as to motive. Not doing even the most reasonably expected due diligence when planning an expensive vacation…or any other purchase…expecting everything to happen for you just because you paid what you believe is an amount that should give you gold-glove treatment is reckless and risky. 
I know there are incidents where issues have happened that are definitely the fault of the companies taking my money, and I hope to be able to recoup my loss. But I will do everything possible to be in the best position to do so. Including getting a good, solid insurance policy. There are risks in everything in life…but doing everything I can to mitigate those risks is important to me. One of the best things I did was join this blog and these forums. Knowledge is power…and sharing that knowledge with others makes us all better off.

If the OP was a hit and run poster…oh, well. But if they truly want good information about Royal, then this is the place to be. Either way, I wish them the best.

****The soapbox is now available***

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The only thing I disagree with is my in laws had a cruise credit for a seven night cruise for two. They couldn't use it because of health issues, and Royal would not let anyone else use it. It could only be them that could use it. So they lost almost $2000 because my in laws could not give the cruise to my wife and I. 

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As for the, "one and done," aspect of the post...

I believe that many people come here believing that they can vent directly to Royal by posting here.  We know better, of course.  But many have no clue.  They never intended to come back.  It doesn't matter what we say, positive or negative, they're never coming back.

So, bon voyage...

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1. OP, if you are still out there, I pray for a speedy recovery.

2. I agree that there is no need to cross the line and attack the OP; however, everyone's "line" is different.  

3. OP is a senior citizen, each generation has there own understanding of social media, the internet, etc.  I subscribe to the old school mentality, if you don't want it to be read, don't write it.  Also, think before you speak/write.  I agree with many that the initial tone of the OP was a "one and one" rant type of posting and that the OP was not likely looking to be educated or receive sympathy.  Despite this, the post now has 2 pages of replies. LOL

4. Experienced cruisers have answers that many new cruisers will not like or understand.  We are all adults.  Don't read into things that aren't there and don't take (or make) things personal.  Sharing a personal story is one thing, personally going after someone or spinning your brain and inferring an attack is another.

5. No business is perfect. No individual is perfect.  Don't throw rocks.  Trust me, on the internet, we all live in glass houses.

6. If you are on these boards to mainly spew negative comments and remarks about Royal Caribbean....that very well might be the very definition of "troll."  Don't troll.

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On 3/8/2022 at 10:10 AM, Ja-sun said:

The only thing I disagree with is my in laws had a cruise credit for a seven night cruise for two. They couldn't use it because of health issues, and Royal would not let anyone else use it. It could only be them that could use it. So they lost almost $2000 because my in laws could not give the cruise to my wife and I. 

If you are referring to a future cruise credit then I would suggest your in laws call back again and again until they get someone who can make this right.  Royal has become much more flexible in allowing FCC's to be shared amongst family members and this seems like a compelling case.  

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1 hour ago, recogneyes said:

If you are referring to a future cruise credit then I would suggest your in laws call back again and again until they get someone who can make this right.  Royal has become much more flexible in allowing FCC's to be shared amongst family members and this seems like a compelling case.  

The only thing is that this happened back in 2019. They paid for their cruise, but couldn't go because of a health issue. Royal gave them a year to use it, but they couldn't because of the same health condition. Royal would not let us use their cruise credit even though they wanted to give it to us. 

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6 hours ago, Ja-sun said:

The only thing is that this happened back in 2019. They paid for their cruise, but couldn't go because of a health issue. Royal gave them a year to use it, but they couldn't because of the same health condition. Royal would not let us use their cruise credit even though they wanted to give it to us. 

Ok, I understand and yes, that is different than the FCC being issued due to the halt in sailings.  The only other suggestion I have then is to send an email to guest relations [email protected]rccl.com and explain the situation and see if anything can be done.  It can't hurt to ask.  Good luck

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is not exactly 100% true, we have sailed with RC a lot of times and had various sailings moved, cancelled etc etc. I have even moved ship last min and they have always accommodated us without any penalties. Have you asked if you can move the deposit to another sailing? if you are Loyal to Royal we have found them very helpful.

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7 hours ago, TracyRevell said:

This is not exactly 100% true, we have sailed with RC a lot of times and had various sailings moved, cancelled etc etc. I have even moved ship last min and they have always accommodated us without any penalties. Have you asked if you can move the deposit to another sailing? if you are Loyal to Royal we have found them very helpful.

My TA who books strictly RCCL said recently that reservation policies are now more like they were before Covid (e.g., the cruise with confidence policy is now limited to bookings made on or before March 31, 2022 that depart before September 30, 2022 ) - if you book something outside those limits you lose 100pp of the deposit if you cancel (rather than a FCC or refund). It is possible to get refundable fares (which are typically higher priced), but I am referring to the non-refundable ones. I went over this with him carefully recently since we were wanting to book one in August 2023 about which we were tentative. But miracles do happen, it’s always possible to ask.

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Confused why CWC wouldn't apply? OP said they booked (obviously before March 31, 2022 based on the time of his post) for a cruise this September. All this is within CWC. He would just get issued FCC for any amounts he has paid and he'd be able to use it for up a year after the original sailing date. Seems like that would be a good option after he recovers?

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