LizzyBee23

I had not heard about any NCL cancelled cruises….but if true, there goes the nonsense about COVID coming onto cruise ships with the unvaxxed children ! 

It was me.  I was the poster on CC.  It wasn't BS.  If you have questions you can ask me here.  I assume it hasn't hit the media yet because the official numbers haven't been posted by the CDC.  The media has reached out to me.   But even still, given what I saw and went through I wouldn't believe any of the numbers they put out.  I wasn't even tested.  Royal hasn't refuted anything on social media yet either so if the few of us who are talking and posting aren't being truthful...where are they to stop it?  All they're doing is taking down CC sites.
I'm not going to re-hash it all.  People are fiercely loyal to Royal and want to argue about everything and refuse to believe that anything could go bad and I don't have the energy to fight and defend myself anymore.  And it really was a bad experience.  The first week was great though.

I numbered the excerpts from your comments to comment to those  
1-It would seem so .But how did those cases "slip past"....and because that variant was not as contagious and had a longer incubation period it's more likely people became positive after their immediate contact tracing, potentially spread it and would test  positive when they got off the ship (not tracked)

2-Cancelling anyone does not necessarily mean less cases on board.  This variant is extremely contagious.  Conversely it could be argued had they allowed more people onboard the % of positive cases would have been lower based on statistics.   The number of positive cases was "reasonable" (less than on land) given the #'s of people on board.  I suspect it would have been much higher had they tested everyone on board (just like if they walked into a random catering hall and did testing of everyone present)

3-The refusal of protocols being followed is not the only risk.  Everyone in the main dining room is unmasked, tables "on top of each other", unmasked in casinos (as was the protocol until last week), unmasked in vaccinated areas (as was the protocol until last week).  They can mask in all areas-as they are now, the dining room would still have permitted the spread of this-as well as any venue where people remove their mask to eat/drink-Windjammer, specialty restaurants, bars etc.  They are saying this variant can be easily picked up and you test positive within 3 days.  (as opposed to the "standard 5-10 days" of past variant). 



 

That and some element of doing something for the sake of doing something so no one says they didn't do something

The numbers on ships have been anywhere from 50 -100 positive cases. If my math is correct that's around 1% of occupancy.   Someone Help me understand why shows and climbing walls and ice skating might be canceled.   Two years into this pandemic we must go on.

RCL (and the cruise lines more generally) boxed themselves in by claiming the HSP's recommendations were what allowed them to control COVID (ha) and sail safely. It was pure hubris to suggest cause-effect in the first place, and it put the cruise lines in this weak position, where now they have to keep running in the proverbial wheel even though it's becoming clearer and clearer it has no real effect on anything.
How many ships are under investigation by the CDC right now? 70+? 

The rest aside, here is the root of the logical fallacy: there is no "safe enough". Perhaps you'll agree when the 100th ship sets under investigation by the CDC. You can argue for incrementalism, but then you end up here, in a place where we try to justify to each other with a straight face the value of wearing cloth masks in the face of overwhelming evidence suggesting their ineffectiveness or not being able to touch ketchup bottles. And now, since everything in the world we could possibly think of short of shutting down the industry again didn't actually work and at a first real world test has proven the futility of the exercise, we're stuck.

The rest aside, here is the root of the logical fallacy: there is no "safe enough". Perhaps you'll agree when the 100th ship sets under investigation by the CDC. You can argue for incrementalism, but then you end up here, in a place where we try to justify to each other with a straight face the value of wearing cloth masks in the face of overwhelming evidence suggesting their ineffectiveness or not being able to touch ketchup bottles. And now, since everything in the world we could possibly think of short of shutting down the industry again didn't actually work and at a first real world test has proven the futility of the exercise, we're stuck.

The rest aside, here is the root of the logical fallacy: there is no "safe enough". Perhaps you'll agree when the 100th ship sets under investigation by the CDC. You can argue for incrementalism, but then you end up here, in a place where we try to justify to each other with a straight face the value of wearing cloth masks in the face of overwhelming evidence suggesting their ineffectiveness or not being able to touch ketchup bottles. And now, since everything in the world we could possibly think of short of shutting down the industry again didn't actually work and at a first real world test has proven the futility of the exercise, we're stuck.

RCL (and the cruise lines more generally) boxed themselves in by claiming the HSP's recommendations were what allowed them to control COVID (ha) and sail safely. It was pure hubris to suggest cause-effect in the first place, and it put the cruise lines in this weak position, where now they have to keep running in the proverbial wheel even though it's becoming clearer and clearer it has no real effect on anything.
How many ships are under investigation by the CDC right now? 70+? 

And then you found five dollars.

And then you found five dollars.

Feeling like I've won the lottery... I was on Harmony in Feb 2023 for my first vacation with SO without the kids (supposed to happen in Dec 2020, heh). Just logged in to the cruise planner to check on another sailing, and only glanced at the Harmony sailing and wow... what a happy surprise.

I'm singing along with you (albeit off-key)!

...but our chorus of voices is growing louder and stronger....

Us too... Everything that hinges consequences born largely by children on a disease that largely spares them has reeked of hostage taking for far too long. I hoped it wouldn't get this far with vaccine mandates, but I guess I'm holding out hope now that most of us have had enough.
I think the new safetyism culture is going to be hard to break, though, evidenced by the remarks here. Cruiselines will probably keep parts of the CSO around to appease these nonsensical, but loud, demands for a time.

Us too... Everything that hinges consequences born largely by children on a disease that largely spares them has reeked of hostage taking for far too long. I hoped it wouldn't get this far with vaccine mandates, but I guess I'm holding out hope now that most of us have had enough.
I think the new safetyism culture is going to be hard to break, though, evidenced by the remarks here. Cruiselines will probably keep parts of the CSO around to appease these nonsensical, but loud, demands for a time.

Us too... Everything that hinges consequences born largely by children on a disease that largely spares them has reeked of hostage taking for far too long. I hoped it wouldn't get this far with vaccine mandates, but I guess I'm holding out hope now that most of us have had enough.
I think the new safetyism culture is going to be hard to break, though, evidenced by the remarks here. Cruiselines will probably keep parts of the CSO around to appease these nonsensical, but loud, demands for a time.

Us too... Everything that hinges consequences born largely by children on a disease that largely spares them has reeked of hostage taking for far too long. I hoped it wouldn't get this far with vaccine mandates, but I guess I'm holding out hope now that most of us have had enough.
I think the new safetyism culture is going to be hard to break, though, evidenced by the remarks here. Cruiselines will probably keep parts of the CSO around to appease these nonsensical, but loud, demands for a time.

I'm thinking (hoping) the extremely and unnecessarily strict rules in kids club go away one the CSO expires.

This is becoming a game of Whac-A-Mole as the ever changing rules of the CDC/FDA continue as the die-hard cruisers fight through the maze of ever-changing rules. It's now down to 5 year olds, oh not good enough - now #3 shot for boosters this year, nope not good enough, #4 and now your not-yet born baby must be given a shot 😆...where does it all end?  But, we just blissfully follow the ever-changing rules so we can get on a ship to float around the Caribbean with a drink in our hands. 

Right up until the FDA changes the definition of fully vaccinated to fully boosted. 
I keep seeing this same logical fallacy: just do A, and then we can do B... Except they never should have been linked transitively. 

Right up until the FDA changes the definition of fully vaccinated to fully boosted. 
I keep seeing this same logical fallacy: just do A, and then we can do B... Except they never should have been linked transitively. 

They may very well end up being the first to rescind the requirement, too.

NCL's abandonment of families seems to be coming back to haunt them