LizzyBee23

What? Yes! So stoked. Wonder what the itineraries are going to look like.

Backwards, but kind of points to the absurdity of it all at this stage... We all get to participate in our own little version of the Met fiasco with ship's crew.

Trying not to get too excited about our upcoming cruise... A lot could change in 2 months, but things like this give me hope that we really are almost back to normal on cruise ships. The one we're about to go on has been something like 3 years in the making now, too, so to have it be relatively normal would be just amazing.

I have no idea, but congratulations!!

And they should. The transit mask mandate is about to go by the way side.

We are on the same one! There's a gaggle of us (we're like an ad for multi-generational cruising), and we're excited too (though we did AK a few times pre-kids on HAL).

Are we on the same one? Ovation at the end of May?

So happy I've been putting off buying AK excursions

Agreed... But please don't give anyone any ideas. The number of people I spoke with last year who believed RSV was another crazy, new virus blew my mind. This is a point where the degree of reduction matters (a proportional reduction in an exponential function might help for hours, days, or months depending on the exponent), and I'd point out not even the CDC is trying to say that vaccines reduce infection or transmission anymore. They've retreated to the idea that it reduces severe disease or death, and even couch that in the idea that you have to have been recently boosted. We're more than a year beyond when early vaccine adopters got their course of shots (I'm in that group). Knowing what I know now, there is absolutely no chance I'll get a booster and the early data suggests I'm about as likely to catch and transmit delta as someone who is unvaccinated (if not more likely than someone with recent naturally derived immunity). I'll link the paper when I find it. The point being unless you're prepared to make sure people aren't more than 3-4 months removed from a booster, the benefit of vaccination diminishes pretty quickly in terms of limiting spread beyond what is happening in the community on a cruise ship. Cruise lines seem pretty unwilling to adopt booster requirements, so it seems like the time to circle back to the original vaccine mandate in the first place is right about now. As time goes on, it's hard to view it as anything but punitive. Also, of course the b.2 variant is going to take off here. The only question worth asking now is who's going to play along.

The demographics in the South are favorable... It's the fastest growing region in the US. I think it's probably a matter of time, tempered of course by the economy writ large.

The CDC is still on a crusade to put young kids in masks, so I wouldn't hold my breath about AO.

Isn't that the sword over their heads, though? Opt in to our voluntary program, or masks are required by virtue of the transportation mandate? Could be I misunderstood (probable).

Shhh... You're about to make me go in for a 6th time on the idea that we may actually be at a turning point. Perhaps motivated by letting myself watch Wonder videos this afternoon.

But that's a very different argument with a very different solution than the justification for continued restrictions on board which just seems to scream "try harder". You're trying to appease an audience that cannot be sated, and destroying your actual customer base on the way. I'm too jaded/mentally exhausted to say "I think we may be at a turning point" for the 5th time in 2 years. With the cruise lines not making much of a fuss about the continued voluntary programs from the CDC, I really don't see an end in sight. Our last cruise (we finally went on one with our cruise crazy in laws, after delaying for most of last year) was enjoyable in the sense that Coco Cay is just awesome no matter what, and the meals in the MDR were just a blast thanks to the excellent, very kid-friendly service... but the rest of the cruise was just blah. The insanity around AO, and the limitations with scheduling shows with unvaccinated kids being huge reasons why. Thankfully there were Legos for sale in the gift shop and we had a balcony. Otherwise the time onboard would have been an absolute bust. I mention all of that to illustrate that the way RCL (or any other cruise line) is operating is going to continue to cost them customers. You can point to transient booking numbers to say that's not the case, but we're second generation die hards and it will take a lot to get us back on a ship (unless coerced by grandma and grandpa, who for the first time ever, have stopped trying to get us on oard for our yearly get together in light of our recent experiences). I know we're not unique.

Sure, but this was pointing out the utter hypocrisy of achieving 95% vax rate by packing a ship full, and likely negating the marginal benefit of vaccines (not really a debate... Have a look at the latest data out of 4x jabbed Israel). I understand this is a rah-rah cruising board, and try to remind myself of that every time a comment is deleted for being "off-topic" (though the best description would be COVID-mitigation-critical). But come on... The industry will not survive under the thumb of the CDC. It's not really the time to accept a "compromise" that so hobbles the industry (even though the reference to unmasked rugrats makes it pretty clear there is some motivated reasoning going on here). So yes... The two things fit a reasonably sardonic definition of hilarious.

Which is hilarious, as one of the most effective measures is limiting capacity.

... What? That must be some extrapolation of the transitive property of logic and mathematics that I'm just not getting. The point is anecdotes don't make data, and that when the actual data is analyzed "simple measures" can't be tied to any meaningful change in the state of the pandemic, especially not as it pertains to the way a business like RCL operates irrespective of the regulatory quagmire imposed on them by government agencies like the CDC. Also, I'd conservatively wager at least half of RCL's customers aren't happy about the prospect of what amounts to stricter restrictions for most coming out of the Omicron wave, and also are less than excited about having to vaccinate their kids as part of that stricter experience in the climate of information continuously coming out which seems to undermine that benefit. You can see the tide turning too, in the way that the cruise line's major lobbying arm, CLIA, is also becoming more vocal. I personally think it would be jarring to not see that same representation of voices here, from actual RCL customers, and have to have a small laugh at the fact that heckles only seemed to get raised on page two of a forum after a slew of comments arbitrarily expressing an overly saccharine view of the whole affair. Oh, and please don't be sorry for me. It was a two day illness made dramatically worse by the 10 day quarantine requirement when I still tested positive by PCR on day 7.

I caught COVID last month as a fully vaccinated adult, and no one in my house (including 2 unvaccinated kids) caught it without doing anything crazy like wearing a mask in my own home or depriving my kids from the full faced love of their mother for 5-10 days. You cannot say that "simple measures work". In fact, most evidence suggests it is tantamount to voodoo at this point, yet people commiting the same logical fallacy as the one you just made are setting policy from CDC in place under the belief that "well, it can't hurt". Except it can, and it's beginning to tread beyond foolishness.

The rest aside, here is the root of the logical fallacy: there is no "safe enough". Perhaps you'll agree when the 100th ship sets under investigation by the CDC. You can argue for incrementalism, but then you end up here, in a place where we try to justify to each other with a straight face the value of wearing cloth masks in the face of overwhelming evidence suggesting their ineffectiveness or not being able to touch ketchup bottles. And now, since everything in the world we could possibly think of short of shutting down the industry again didn't actually work and at a first real world test has proven the futility of the exercise, we're stuck.

RCL (and the cruise lines more generally) boxed themselves in by claiming the HSP's recommendations were what allowed them to control COVID (ha) and sail safely. It was pure hubris to suggest cause-effect in the first place, and it put the cruise lines in this weak position, where now they have to keep running in the proverbial wheel even though it's becoming clearer and clearer it has no real effect on anything. How many ships are under investigation by the CDC right now? 70+?

And then you found five dollars.

Feeling like I've won the lottery... I was on Harmony in Feb 2023 for my first vacation with SO without the kids (supposed to happen in Dec 2020, heh). Just logged in to the cruise planner to check on another sailing, and only glanced at the Harmony sailing and wow... what a happy surprise.

Us too... Everything that hinges consequences born largely by children on a disease that largely spares them has reeked of hostage taking for far too long. I hoped it wouldn't get this far with vaccine mandates, but I guess I'm holding out hope now that most of us have had enough. I think the new safetyism culture is going to be hard to break, though, evidenced by the remarks here. Cruiselines will probably keep parts of the CSO around to appease these nonsensical, but loud, demands for a time.

Right up until the FDA changes the definition of fully vaccinated to fully boosted. I keep seeing this same logical fallacy: just do A, and then we can do B... Except they never should have been linked transitively.

They may very well end up being the first to rescind the requirement, too.