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16 hours ago, Scrumps said:

Interesting to see someone take the time to respond in the negative..

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=CDC-2020-0087-0002

You can tell by the last paragraph of their post that they have never cruised and where they stand on it.

"Part of capitalism is that some industries and companies don't make it and other innovations and businesses rise up in their place. That may just be the fate of the cruise industry as well, and for the poor treatment they have notoriously shown to their crew and the environment, I'd say it was about time!Think of all of the human rights atrocities that you will save from occurring if you continue to block their cruel industry."

They obviously have a strong opinion and would enjoy the fact of the cruise industry going under all together. I wonder what happened to make them hate it so much. Opinions like those should be taken with more than a grain of salt. They truly have no idea of the different policies the cruise lines take to ensure the safety of the environment and those on board. Their suggestions made it sound more like a stay jail than a vacation.

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On 7/26/2020 at 6:16 PM, Scrumps said:

Interesting to see someone take the time to respond in the negative..

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=CDC-2020-0087-0002

Exactly the kind of response that will be read once and logged (because they legally have to) and then completely ignored.  

The CDC doesn't want this guy's opinion, or yours or mine.  They're asking because they're required to.  The kinds of responses they'll actually consider will be 10+ pages long and will present data and realistic solutions.  Random internet submissions?  They may read a few of them for laughs.  

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14 hours ago, cruisellama said:

I wonder if the author ever cruised or just dislikes the industry .

I highly doubt they ever cruised. It sounds like one of those people who have gotten caught up in an extreme environmental conservation group that doesn't really do it's research. They watch all the negative things but never the positive. Sounds like their glass is never half empty, just empty without looking at the glass. If they would just do the research and learn to truly love the nature around them, they would be much happier and could enjoy life.

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Seems like a never cruiser, they come out of the walls after any cruise related problem. Norovirus, fatalities etc. the writers last sentence says it all. ¨Human rights atrocities, block their cruel industries¨ This doesn´t  seem to be about the virus, but about the cruise industry as a whole

If you follow their logic, buffets should be gone, no main dining rooms, eat in your cabins. What makes this different than, an all inclusive resort? Oh yeah CDC has no governance over Sandals etc.  They sure aren´t trying to shut down any hotels or casinos. I wonder how this person feels about reopening of schools and the safety measures that should be in place. Lastly, if they expect to wait till a vaccine is proven we are in for a long wait.

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Like it or not there is a lot of evidence the current CDC position on cruising is the right thing to do at this time.

MLB tried playing games with a lot of protocols in place, no fans present and masks required for all non-player positions yet we are starting to see outbreaks among MLB personnel.  Between the two teams, the TV crew and the stadium crew there are probably something like 200-300 people present in a very large stadium.  If they can't do that without an outbreak how on earth is a cruise ship supposed to avoid an outbreak?

If there is one valid purpose for those areas in the US that are pushing the limits and reopening a lot it's that the world can learn from it.  If any country or region tried to do the same they'd face the same results - more cases and more death.  

The good news is the death rate isn't climbing like it did with the March case count spike, at least not yet.  If we can learn how to keep the death rate down while the case count is high that's a good thing.  

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I agree completely with you@twangster we need to learn from the progress and the mistakes that are being made. My point was with the comment that was posted to the CDC. That person seems to have an axe to grind with the cruise industry as a whole. I think the CDC listening is a good thing, I just hope they listen to the panel that RCG put together and they come up with the best program for us.

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From watching some of the MLB games I can see the reason why COVID is happening. A major rule was no spitting, I watched three games, and saw quite a few players spitting like crazy. If we don't follow the basic rules we are doomed to fail.

I don't think the CDC has been wrong in not allowing cruising to commence because more and more I can see the failures of not complying. While I think whomever wrote the negative response never has been on a cruise; their mindset is of the majority of Americans. Everyone loves to follow the perception of something, not the truth of something.

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I believe non-compliance with the various mitigation measures is not as wide-spread as the media paints the picture that it is. Geometric progression in the context or relaxing mobility restrictions is the primary factor in the recent surge in new cases. Generally, you can have mobility and the proximity that produces without surge consequence if your starting point is 1:1 or less, i.e., locations that drove the various measures of viral spread to 1 or less are less susceptible to high growth rates than a location that only brough that number to, say, 3.  Caveat as has been pointed out even with 1:1 if that one is an isolated "super spreader" that's a problem not associated with geometric progression. 

I read some recent polling data that reported upwards of 80% of Americans report they wear a mask and practice social distancing all of the time indoors and some of the time out doors. There are, of course, exceptions. These receive extensive media coverage with photos and videos of bad actors. Experts in this sort of thing say that 75% compliance with masking and distancing is enough to produce a decrease in viral spread in a locale that achieves that goal.

I think the recent downward trends in the S and SW states and CA in every useful measure of viral spread and disease burden, when viewed in the proper context, is an indication that the message is getting out.

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 2:28 PM, crisgold52 said:

When you have 750 cases in Washington state in a day vs 28 in the entire province of BC this speaks volumes.

Those cases are not surprising when you see what is going on in Washington state. That is not something that I would be using as a measuring stick. The rest of the country isn't having the same things going on. There's been a rise in cases in Oregon and Minnesota which doesn't surprise me either, as they are having the same situations in large cities. BC has less per square mile than just about every state in the US. That makes a difference.

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On 7/28/2020 at 3:26 PM, twangster said:

Like it or not there is a lot of evidence the current CDC position on cruising is the right thing to do at this time.

MLB tried playing games with a lot of protocols in place, no fans present and masks required for all non-player positions yet we are starting to see outbreaks among MLB personnel.  Between the two teams, the TV crew and the stadium crew there are probably something like 200-300 people present in a very large stadium.  If they can't do that without an outbreak how on earth is a cruise ship supposed to avoid an outbreak?

If there is one valid purpose for those areas in the US that are pushing the limits and reopening a lot it's that the world can learn from it.  If any country or region tried to do the same they'd face the same results - more cases and more death.  

The good news is the death rate isn't climbing like it did with the March case count spike, at least not yet.  If we can learn how to keep the death rate down while the case count is high that's a good thing.  

And it turned out that the Marlin players went out to the bars and got infected.  They played a game against the Phillies with tons of infected Marlins and not a single Phillies' player tested positive.  Now, that being said, I am sure that whatever protocols the cruise lines have might not be followed by all, but the MLB players didn't follow their protocols.  The stadium wasn't the vector of spread.

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On 7/26/2020 at 1:52 PM, Scrumps said:

 This and others like this I find frustrating..

What precautions should the cruise line industry take to safely disembark passengers and crew without transmitting COVID-19 into local seaport communities?

A counter question.. what are the airlines doing to safely disembark passengers and crew without transmitting COVID-19 into local airport communities?

Bingo

 

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6 hours ago, gatorskin76 said:

And it turned out that the Marlin players went out to the bars and got infected.  They played a game against the Phillies with tons of infected Marlins and not a single Phillies' player tested positive.  Now, that being said, I am sure that whatever protocols the cruise lines have might not be followed by all, but the MLB players didn't follow their protocols.  The stadium wasn't the vector of spread.

That's sort of the point.  I get it.  People are tired of the current situation.  People don't want to follow protocols, people want their lives back.  If pro sports teams won't follow protocols for their million dollar jobs what makes anyone think cruisers who aren't being paid millions of dollars to sail will? 

Four additional Marlins have now tested positive and now two Philly staffers have tested positive after playing the Marlins.   The role the stadium played isn't fully know yet but certainly appears like it could be the vector unless the Philly staff joined the Marlin team at the bar.   Were all 17 infected Marlins and the 2 Phillies at the bar?  Or did the Philly staff break protocol as well unrelated to the Marlins breaking protocol?  That's probably worse.

Baseball parks don't generate the virus anymore than cruise ships generate the virus.  It's humans that bring it to these venues.  Humans who want to live free despite the best protocols will do stupid stuff because they think they know better and it doesn't matter if they don't follow protocol.  If professionals in very small groups can't get it done there is no way the cruising public in much larger numbers can.  

In this case they shut down the team and forced another team to cancel games until more could be tested.  Now they are talking of the Marlins being placed into a bubble.  Do you want to be on a ship that is shut down and placed in a bubble because a few cruisers didn't follow protocol?  Another word for bubble is quarantine.  

"In a statement, Marlins CEO Derek Jeter said the team is "having a difficult time enduring this experience" while isolating and quarantining in Philadelphia."  That doesn't sound like a fun cruise experience to me.  

Until a community can get get their numbers right there can be no cruising involving that community.  The CDC knows this reality.  

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12 hours ago, twangster said:

That's sort of the point.  I get it.  People are tired of the current situation.  People don't want to follow protocols, people want their lives back.  If pro sports teams won't follow protocols for their million dollar jobs what makes anyone think cruisers who aren't being paid millions of dollars to sail will? 

Four additional Marlins have now tested positive and now two Philly staffers have tested positive after playing the Marlins.   The role the stadium played isn't fully know yet but certainly appears like it could be the vector unless the Philly staff joined the Marlin team at the bar.   Were all 17 infected Marlins and the 2 Phillies at the bar?  Or did the Philly staff break protocol as well unrelated to the Marlins breaking protocol?  That's probably worse.

Baseball parks don't generate the virus anymore than cruise ships generate the virus.  It's humans that bring it to these venues.  Humans who want to live free despite the best protocols will do stupid stuff because they think they know better and it doesn't matter if they don't follow protocol.  If professionals in very small groups can't get it done there is no way the cruising public in much larger numbers can.  

In this case they shut down the team and forced another team to cancel games until more could be tested.  Now they are talking of the Marlins being placed into a bubble.  Do you want to be on a ship that is shut down and placed in a bubble because a few cruisers didn't follow protocol?  Another word for bubble is quarantine.  

"In a statement, Marlins CEO Derek Jeter said the team is "having a difficult time enduring this experience" while isolating and quarantining in Philadelphia."  That doesn't sound like a fun cruise experience to me.  

Until a community can get get their numbers right there can be no cruising involving that community.  The CDC knows this reality.  

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but that isn't what the post I responded to stated.  You made the point that even though they had all the protocols there was still an outbreak, and you mentioned the number of people in the stadium.  I was merely pointing out the protocols are pointless if they aren't followed.  It's hard to say if the Phillies staff members got it from the Marlins, given there is no bubble it's hard to say.  Chances are one them got it and then gave it to the other one.  Could have been from the grocery store for all we know.

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20 hours ago, crisgold52 said:

Yup in BC our schools will be bubbles within bubbles. Bubbles don't necessarily mean quarantine. Just a group of people not mingling with another group. I think that in order for US cruises to resume as at this point I'm confident Asia will resume before most do with the exception of some sail to no where out of the EU... bubbles work. It's an interesting concept. And yeah if a team in a bubble can't prevent its players from not following the bubble theres a trickle down effect. 

Just to clarify on the MLB part of this, they didn't have bubbles.  I am sure they had restrictions on activities the players could participate in, but they didn't institute a bubble.  I can't see how bubbles in a cruise ship environment would work.  The benefit of the bubble is that you are interacting with the same group of people and are isolated from others, but if you are still using the same common areas as other bubbles, then I am not sure you are going to prevent "community spread" outside of that bubble.  It's probably better to isolate if there is an issue, but on a cruise ship I am not sure how much additional benefit you would get.  In the NBA bubble, no one comes in and no one leaves their restricted areas.  Having bubbles traveling around in the same areas wouldn't have the same effect.

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