JeffB

After reading the details about Spain's announcement, it brings to mind the question regarding how different countries have gone about initially shuttering and now re-opening. Obviously lots has been learned about SARS2. It is more transmissible than it's brother SARS and has a predilection to produce serious life threatening illness in people over 70, it kills a high percentage of people over 80 that become infected. But it doesn't produce much of anything in people under 40 and usually only the sniffles in kids. Of course there are exceptions - if obesity and/or co-morbid medical conditions (among others) are present that predisposes to more serious illness from infection with SARS2. Some Public Health services, IMO, were slow to pick-up on this. The response to the pandemic was generally a butcher's knife when a scalpel would have avoided some of the horrendous economic and social costs produced by probably unnecessary and draconian mitigation measures to start But that's hindsight. Going forward it seems to me that re-openings are occurring more rapidly in countries that have paid attention to the data - especially regarding the effectiveness of vaccines in the real world. Recognition that SARS2 doesn't seriously impact a large portion of the human race by some countries who took this into account and didn't shut down schools and most businesses or social life was entirely missed by others including the US. The key was and remains recognizing that to avoid catastrophic outcomes from SARS2, assiduously protect the vulnerable and then aggressively vaccinate this cohort when vaccines are available. The rest can mostly go about business as usual. The US has been, IMO, too quick to the butcher knife and too slow to re-open, with politics getting into every aspect of pandemic management to a fault. That has happened other places but the US's CDC, prior to the current SAR2 pandemic was the worlds leading expert on infectious disease, has performed poorly. It still tends to by hyper-cautious, to a fault, in its recommendations and, in particular, to assumed regulatory authority under the PHE. Anyway, the world is coming out of this and we'll cruise again, with fits and starts. Halleluiah.

???? Just don't ask RCL. I suspect it's a mistake. Take it and run. ?

I had a very similar experience with Celebrity in that on a refunded booking, I received 4 credits to the card the original booking was charged to. None of these included fees and taxes - these were refunded separately in a 5th credit!!! I was not dealing with any OBC's or advance payments for tours or services. I was able to obtain an explanation from a very well informed CSR - he explained refunds are divided, as @Matt notes above, by line item (except the fees and taxes that are usually refunded separately). This is a company accounting method that divides your payment for the cruise between several lines - you never see these; I think your TA can see them by going on to the reservation system that you don't have access to. He gets lots of calls on this so, he's gotten good at explaining them. He used a calculator to demonstrate how I received a full refund on my original fare. Refunds of a cancelled cruise that has had an FCC applied to it as a partial payment, as I understand it, will not be refunded, @Traveler's post not withstanding (???) It goes into your account and has to be used before it expires so, check carefully on the expiration date if this is the case for you.

No. Cruising is back! Here are the details:

I've said this multiple times when discussing the pandemic because there are others who have really suffered but I've lost two years that I will never get back of cruising and going to Michigan football games with my son - we are both graduates continuing a long family tradition on both sides. Yeah, first world problems! But this is a huge deal for me at my age. Losing two years of cruising, something similar to loosing chunks of heart and soul, to the shut down of life sucks when you know there aren't many years of that left. We have a routine. The first thing we say when walking into the Grand Foyer is, "honey, I'm home." We go from there. I liked the post that said, the first thing I'm going to do is ..... tip a crew member! Fantastic. I think I'll bring a stack of bills and each crew member I encounter is going to get one until I run one

It could but if memory serves, Merryday said you guys sitting down at the mediation table have until June 7th to get an agreement or send it back to me. As well, the District Court in Tampa is operating under a requested (by FL) and approved expedited hearing for a timely injunction voiding the CSO. I don't think Merryday can sit on this until November. I think he'll rule within days of this thing getting kicked back to him. Barring a settlemt at mediation and regardless of Merryday's ruling, if he ends up making one, one way or the other, there will be an appeal. If Merryday grants FL's request for an injunction it will take effect immediately, the CSO is done pending a ruling on appeal to reverse Merryday's ruling. After a successful appeal to reverse, it would be reinstated. I'd expect all of that to get resolved in a month. If Merryday rules in favor of the feds, the CSO stands along with affirmation that the feds have jurisdiction in the matters at hand. FL will appeal but the CSO will remain in place. The Desantis ban on businesses requiring vaccination to enter/receive services is doomed. To be more accurate it is doomed when it will undoubtedly be challenged as unlawful citing the FL law suit outcome as precedential.

My Two Cents: Cruise ships, in limited numbers, will start sailing in July, certainly, I would think by January 2022 barring any major pandemic setbacks in the US. Celebrity wins the poll position and starts June 26th - maybe. I'll get to that. I'm not keeping track but counting on my fingers and toes, I think there will be around a dozen sailings from US ports in July (some of them test cruises) alone and this number will gradually increase through December. I believe more than 1/2 of RCL's fleet will be sailing by January from US ports. You'll sail in January, 2022. Given RCL's choice of a hybrid passenger manifest, there will be the expected, not fun-inducing mitigation measures in place until ....... I'll get to that. That will keep you feeling nervous about your cruse. Don't be. On the Desantis ban on businesses requiring vaccination to enter/receive services wrt to cruise ships: Big time politics are now involved in FL complicating already complicated maritime laws and PHE derived jurisdiction involving the CDC where state and federal authority overlaps. 31d are left to sort this out. If FL loses it's law suit v. CDC/HHS, federal jurisdiction in all matters pertaining to ship safety and sanitation - the basis of the CSO - will be affirmed and the CSO regarded as lawful. To that end, the CDC recommends vaccinations for passengers to board a cruise ship and the Desantis ban will run afoul of the fed's authority to set reasonable safety and health standards aboard cruise ships operating in US waters (up to the water's edge). The authority of a cruise line to require vaccination for passengers to sail will be affirmed. OTH, if FL prevails v. HHS/CDC, state jurisdiction over the matters in question will be affirmed. Desantis will create a carve out for the cruise industry, claim victory (see the Sun Sentinel article), everyone will be happy and ships will be able to start sailing from FL and TX ports, probably others. TBH I think FL looses. I think the PHE in the US will end before December 31st. If that happens, it will be up to the cruise lines to determine what SARS2 related health and safety standards they want to sail with, not the CDC. Of course, the Vessel Safety Program and foreign ports they wish to visit will regulate that to an extent. The CDC is a player within that for US ports only. Their powers to regulate in US ports, though, are limited and regulation falls back to congress, where it should be, in that case, I believe. The bottom line, IMO, is that a lot hinges on the outcome of the FL law suit. I'm watching this, along with others here, closely. It is possible that resolution of the kerfuffel between Desantis and the cruise lines over requiring vaccinations to cruise from FL ports could be resolved before FL's law suit v HHS/CDC is resolved. That would be nice but for reasons already discussed, Desantis is not going to publicly back down before he's got a reading on his law suit. There's also the possibility, although I think it's unlikely, that mediation will produce an agreement between the CDC and FL. Depending on the details of the agreement, that could change things but it would seem to me more in a positive direction.

Great news @FionaMG. You're going cruising and you don't have to drive to Barcelona. Book your air now.

Just to be clear, @JeffB didn't write what's in the Sun Sentinel article. I think Ron Desantis has stepped in it on his ban. Not only is it stupid, while he can make the case it's lawful, it is patently obvious it isn't. BTW, The Miami Herald is the worst newspaper in America. ?

This is a great article in this mornings Sun Sentinel (Paywalled) that does a good job of explaining the positions of the two sides involving the Desantis Vaccine Passport ban. One of the legal comments is from Jim Welker - well known around here as an anti-cruise quack. The last few paragraphs in the article point out the political ramifications for Desantis. It seems resolution between Desantis and Celebrity could rest on the outcome of mediation now underway to settle the FL lawsuit against HHS/CDC: Cruise lines prepare to sail, but DeSantis clash looms By Ron Hurtibise South Florida Sun Sentinel The restart of cruising in Florida could have been smooth sailing. After a suspension lasting more than a year, all of the major cruise lines could have been gearing up for voyages out of Florida ports this summer with 95% vaccinated passengers and crew. Ship crew members, shuttle drivers, baggage handlers, food service providers, gift shop owners and thousands of others who depend on the cruise industry to put food on their tables could have headed into the Memorial Day weekend confident they’d soon be going back to work. Celebrity Cruises could have been preparing for a voyage out of Fort Lauderdale without having to worry that Florida’s governor will fine the company for violating his “vaccine passport” ban or use his authority to prevent passengers from boarding. Instead, uncertainty reigns, thanks to DeSantis’ decision to file a lawsuit challenging the CDC’s authority to dictate how and whether cruise ships can operate in the state. The two sides have been ordered into mediation, but legal experts say the dispute could linger long past the summer. Fort Lauderdale could become a flashpoint in the conflict as early as next month. Just one cruise line — Royal Caribbean Group-owned Celebrity Cruises — has announced that it’s been approved by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to depart Port Everglades in June. The ship would be the first to sail from the Broward County port since March 2020. Travel agents and other industry professionals remain hopeful. They say they’re confident compromise can be reached in a way that allows everyone to claim victory. The cruise industry is too important to Florida’s economy, they say, for DeSantis to indefinitely block what they view as the most-obvious and sensible path to safely resuming operations. How did we get here? It’s been a busy couple of months. Back in April, DeSantis stood with cruise industry leaders who were calling on the CDC to provide clear guidelines to allow cruising to resume from the state by summer. The CDC was not communicating with the cruise lines, they said, leaving them confused and in limbo, unable to plan their next moves.But when the CDC finally responded by telling cruise lines they could skip required “test cruises” and get back to business by ensuring vaccination of 95% of passengers and crew members, DeSantis balked. Such a requirement would violate his executive order, later enacted into state law, barring businesses from requiring that their customers be vaccinated, DeSantis said. The governor’s refusal to exempt cruise lines from his “vaccine passport” ban blocked the cruise industry’s clearest and fastest path back to operation .So instead of ordering provisions for midnight buffets, cruise lines are announcing diverging paths forward. Royal Caribbean Group seems to be hedging its bets by announcing plans for two of its brands to move forward under separate paths offered by the CDC. Under a plan outlined on May 24 for its Royal Caribbean International brand, its 3,934-passenger Freedom of the Seas will embark upon a test cruise, or simulated cruise, for two nights out of Port Miami on June 20 with volunteer passengers. Specific activities have not been announced, but CDC guidelines call for such voyages to demonstrate effectiveness of cruise lines’ new procedures for getting passengers on and off ships, testing passengers for symptoms, safe in-cabin quarantining of symptomatic passengers, as well as food service, recreational activities and port calls. Developed prior to vaccine availability, cruises operated under these procedures won’t require proof of vaccination and therefore won’t violate DeSantis’ “vaccine passport” ban. But guests will be required to wear masks and practice social distancing in most areas outside their staterooms. On May 26, Royal Caribbean Group’s luxury brand, Celebrity Cruises, announced its plan, cleared by the CDC, to sail from Port Everglades on June 26 with fully vaccinated passengers. Under revised CDC guidance for sailings with at least 95% of passengers and crew vaccinated, masks won’t be required and distancing requirements will be relaxed. Threats of fines DeSantis’ office immediately declared the plan would violate state law. Companies would be subject to a $5,000 fine for every passenger ordered to show proof of vaccination, a spokesperson said. DeSantis press secretary Christina Pushaw blamed the CDC, saying it “has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise.” Echoing the state’s legal argument, she added, “The CDC went on record admitting that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now they provide coercive ‘guidance’ In the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization. In short, the CDC is pushing cruise ships to violate Florida law, in order to comply with CDC ‘guidance’ that is not legally binding.” A Royal Caribbean Group spokeswoman characterized the diverging approaches to its two brands’ resumption plans as tailored to different types of passengers. While Celebrity Cruises is a luxury brand that attracts adults who are more likely to be vaccinated, Royal Caribbean International ships typically sail with a larger percentage of children and would be less likely to meet the 95% vaccination threshold required to avoid test cruises, said Tracy Quann, global chief communications officer for the parent company. Then there’s Norwegian Cruise Line, which had to back off plans announced in April to resume its cruises from Florida on July 4 with 100% vaccinations. In a shareholder meeting in early May, CEO Frank Del Rio reiterated the company’s commitment to sailing with fully vaccinated ships and threatened to move Florida-based ships to other states or ports in the Caribbean if DeSantis refuses to relax his vaccine passport ban. “Everyone wants to operate in Florida,” he said. “It’s a very lucrative market. It’s a close drive market. But it’s an issue. We can’t ignore it. We hope everyone is pushing in the same direction. We want to resume cruising in the safest possible manner.” Staying above the fray, Carnival Corp. has announced a “possible restart plan” to resume sailing sometime in July from PortMiami and Galveston, Texas, but has not revealed whether it will require passengers on those voyages to be vaccinated as will be required on Alaska cruises offered by three Carnival Corp. brands beginning in July. “We have not made a decision company-wide concerning mandating vaccinations at this point,” Carnival Corp. spokesman Roger Frizzell said. He added that simulated cruises are planned in coordination with the CDC, though the company has not publicly announced specific dates, ships or itineraries. Frizzell suggested that the world’s largest cruise company has the flexibility to please more than one master. “We are currently offering different options on our initial sailings for each of the different ships tied to our nine brands, each evolving its protocol over time with the latest advancements in science and medicine, as well as updates in regulations,” he said. “For now, we continue to work closely with the CDC, our medical and science experts and our port cities as well as the destinations we visit.” Is compromise possible? Travel industry officials say they are hopeful that compromise can be reached either in the mediation sessions between the state and the CDC or in talks between cruise lines and the state. “It’s clear all parties want to work together to get cruising going again from the U.S.,” said Brad Tolkin, co-chairman and CEO of travel agency World Travel Holdings, based in Wilmington, Massachusetts, with an office in Fort Lauderdale. “The recent developments have been incredibly encouraging and there is every reason to believe that common ground will be found to allow for cruise lines to operate.” Celebrity Cruises vice president Dondra Ritzenhaler told travel agents last week that Celebrity was talking with DeSantis and top officials of Carnival Corp. and Norwegian Cruise Line and was close to announcing a solution that would allow cruise ships to proceed with vaccination requirements, according to an article posted by CruiseCritic.com, a consumer-focused travel website. “We’re ironing out a statement that indicates how cruising will be different from the rest of the state,” Ritzenhaler was quoted as saying. “What we’re working through is how we word it to where people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to Walmart and Target, but how cruising is different and what the CDC is requiring.” No backing down But DeSantis spokeswoman Pushaw on Thursday said it would be up to the cruise lines to develop solutions that don’t include vaccination requirements. “The ban on vaccine passports is not going to be lifted,” she said, “but in general, the law doesn’t stop private companies from taking other measures to protect against COVID-19.” Legal experts voiced differing views on how the impasse would be resolved. Dawn Meyers, partner and team manager of law firm Berger Singerman’s government and regulatory team, said she finds it difficult to imagine a workable solution emerging if DeSantis refuses to compromise on his opposition to vaccine requirements. “I’m not sure where the mediated middle ground could be,” Meyers said. “Could the cruise lines, for example, let unvaccinated passengers on board but limit their access to certain activities and/or parts of the ships?” Chris Gray Faust, CruiseCritic.com’s managing editor, said CDC guidelines allow ships that sail with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated guests to set aside areas only accessible to vaccinated passengers “similar to what we’re seeing at larger venues such as sports arenas.” Jim Walker, a Miami-based maritime law attorney, said that while the federal court would likely find that the CDC has authority over cruise ships’ health and sanitation issues, cruise industry leaders will persuade DeSantis to approve a “carve out” that will enable cruise lines to ask passengers about their vaccination status. He says fortunes of DeSantis and the cruise lines are too closely tied to imagine DeSantis actually issuing fines or cruise lines suing the state. Noting that Norwegian CEO Del Rio is a close political supporter of DeSantis, Walker said, “I see a resolution where the cruise lines make certain that their guests are vaccinated without incident and the ships sail from Florida ports with Del Rio and DeSantis both claiming victory.” DeSantis is not going to compromise in his fight against the CDC or his opposition to cruise lines’ vaccination requirements, says Bob Jarvis, a Nova Southeastern University law professor whose areas of interest include admiralty and maritime law. DeSantis, Jarvis said, is counting on Donald Trump’s political base to boost his prospects as a 2024 presidential candidate and can claim victory whether the CDC ultimately prevails in the lawsuit or backs down as part of a mediated settlement. “If he wins, he can say to his base, ‘I stared down the federal government.’ If he loses and the lawsuit goes on [through appeal] and the cruise lines don’t get to sail with vaccinated passengers, he gets to say, ‘This is another example of the federal government running amok and you have to vote for me as president because I would never have allowed the CDC to do what it did.’ So he can’t lose.” DeSantis won’t hesitate to send state troopers to Port Everglades to block passengers from boarding their Celebrity Cruises ship next month, Jarvis said. “I think he would love it. What a tremendous photo opportunity to show he’s committed to an open economy and will not bend.” DeSantis spokeswoman Pushaw did not respond when asked if DeSantis would prevent passengers from boarding ships that require proof of vaccinations. Ron Hurtibise covers consumer issues, insurance, travel and many other business matters. He can be reached at [email protected] or 954-356-4071

Correct. It is my understanding that federal jurisdiction in a port that has an established port authority, commission or director who answers to the county within which the port is located (e.g., Broward for PEV and Miami Dade for POM, Tampa, Jacksonville and Canaveral), overlaps the authority of the governing source. To the extent that federal law exists to do that, e.g., trucking, warehousing, OSHA, the feds have jurisdiction. But, basically, the ports are run by the port authority, commission or director either elected through or designated by the county. I think we we would agree that the feds can tell employees of PEV for example that when they're in a warehouse OSHA standards apply, driving a truck within the port, federal regs for operation of that truck apply, but the port authority basically runs the place and the feds have no say in how that is done. I don't think it is clear ..... yet, because this is one of claims in the FL lawsuit v. HHS/CDC whether the CSO mandates that involve embarkation and debarkation protocols and procedures inside the cruise terminal are legal. I believe this sort of regulation is correctly assigned to the port authority. commission or director when one exists.

Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know but I'd recommend booking through whatever RCL calls their air booking system that is linked to your cruise. I did that for my Celebrity Apex cruise out of Athens. If for some reason it gets cancelled, I get a full refund for air, pronto. How do I know this? When I cancelled my air from Miami FL to Amsterdam, it was refunded in about two weeks. I had a cruise booked in October of 2020, Translant from Barcelona to Fort Lauderdale and booked air separately with TAP. No voucher, no refund ..... along with 100s of others, complaining about TAP loudly, in the same boat when TAP stopped flying. I figure I'm out that money. It's why I'm booking through Flights by Celebrity. The rates are often subsidized to get passengers to book the cruise. That was the case Miami to Athens. Great price and decent connections. I'm not a United or American fan - that's what I'm booked on - because they tend to cancel flights for lots of different reasons all inconveniently. No concern about paying passengers and these itineraries may not hold up. Fingers crossed

I don't follow RCL as closely as others here but the CSO, before several provisions were eased just recently in bilateral discussions between the CDC and the cruise lines, limited sailing to 7d. Right around that time, I had changes to two Celebrity cruises I booked in the first quarter of 2021. They went from 8 to 7n. I was kept fully informed of these changes by both my TA and the cruise line. Then they were cancelled. Fine ..... I still can't flesh out whether this provision stayed in the latest guidance update on May 26th or was eliminated. As far as I can tell the original CSO released in October, 2020 restricted passenger cruises to 7d and that remains. Updates in April did not discard this restriction although it was rumored here "8-10n itineraries were back" at some point after that. I'm not sure. Maybe someone else has a solid link. I can't find one. Anyway, you're not alone in wondering about cruises longer than 7n and I find it troubling that customers on RCL cruises within 90d, more troubling within 60 or 30d like yours still don't know what's happening. I've whined plenty about this so, done with that.

Sailing typical European cruise itineraries is very much up in the air. My take is we know more about what is going to happen in the US than we do in Europe. Part of that is the obvious bias in media coverage - I read less news about cruises in Europe and Asia than I do about the US. Still, there's plenty out there. We know they are on-going with hardly any outbreaks aboard ships sailing the med. Lot's learned there that can be applied to September sailings. In February, I thought the best chance for a June cruise would occur in Europe and a restart from US ports would be messy - and it is. I chose Amsterdam as a starting port. Most of my pursuit of an earlier European restart was based on COVID data in February. The US was in a mess, the EU wasn't. Oh, how times change. Vaccines. The US has them and a great distribution plan. The EU? Nope. It's a mess although improving as vaccines get procured and rolled out. Anyway, after the European surge in new case in the March time frame along with more friendly EU governments opening the travel and leisure sectors of their economies in Italy and Greece, I cancelled the Amsterdam booking and booked out of Athens in June. That's a Celebrity cruise, it's locked in, I've checked in and I know exactly what to expect. Everyone has to be vaccinated to sail, kids are no exception. Fine, good for me. What about you and Harmony in September? Well, Spain is doing a lot better (along with most EU countries) in getting jabs into arms (Close to 30% of Spaniards). As you'd expect, deaths and hospitalizations are trending sharply downward but there are still regional hot-spots and Barcelona is one of them - big city, lots of people in close quarters, etc. https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/spain/ Personally, I think your cruise is a slam dunk to happen. That is because if you look at what vaccines achieve in terms of a returns to normal in countries with vax rates above 30% and climbing, new cases drop precipitously right around that point. I expect that to happen in Spain overall and in Barcelona in particular. Normal returns shortly after. See US, UK, Israel, et. al. The EUC has announced that boarders within the EU will be "reopening in June" ...... depending!! ..... no hard dates yet. What EU country's public health officials are looking for is the exact kind of thing happening in Spain and other EU countries as vaccines are obtained and rolled out. I won't speak for port stops on your route. I expect there will continue to be restricted passenger manifests and if RCL embarks on European itineraries with a hybrid mix of vaxed and unvaxed like we are hearing they will do, I expect there will be plenty of inconvenient health and safety protocols and policies in place. Gird yourself. The cruise will go but I think most cruise lines doing European itineraries will have mitigation measures in place that none of us are fond of well into 2022 possibly earlier if vaccines continue to be the miracle they have been so far. But, hey, its cruising!

First, there is no federal mandate for vaccination nor is the state of FL (or any other state to my knowledge), mandating them. Quite the opposite. On the federal level (CDC), they are recommended. For those that don't get vaccinated for any reason - personal choice or medical - and want to board a cruise ship operating from a US port, then the CSO comes into play REQUIRING cruise ships sailing with a mix of vaxxed and unvaxxed passengers to implement a litany of no-fun inducing requirements. Two other important points: First, if a business mandates anything to enter/ receive service, it must accommodate "disability" (narrowly defined and excludes religious reasons) and not be discrimnatory in the usual sense of that word. Courts have found that there are many ways outside of actually letting the "disabled" person in - accommodating them - that do not involve letting them in, e.g., in the case of the cruise industry offering a refund or another sailing further down the road. Second, is the recognition that it is not unlawful for cruise lines or any other private business to mandate vaccinations to sail despite all the nonsense floating around social media platforms (not here) that say it is unlawful for businesses to require proof of vaccination to enter/receive services. Most legal opinions I've read on this hot-button issue say mandating anything by federal or state agencies authorized to do so and private businesses during a public health emergency would uphold the right to require reasonable mitigation measures. Can states then turn around and ban such measures? I don't think so especially in the case of the FL law that does just that. As a matter of law, it is understood that federal authority to regulate safety and sanitation of all ships entering US ports ends at the water's edge ..... unless the port is federally operated port. Most US ports aren't that and activities from the water's edge inland are regulated by the state and/or port authorities. That is true of all 5 of FL's main ports where cruise ships operate from.

I had to read this post and your response @dswallowa couple times. There's a lot going on in the FL lawsuit v. HHS/CDC and FL's Proof of Vaccination ban for businesses operating in FL. I've raised the issue that Desantis can't very well back away from including cruise lines in "businesses operating in FL" in his poof of vaccination ban and at the same time argue in the Federal court hearing the FL suit that the CDC's CSO imposes onerous and costly regulations that are preventing cruise lines from sailing from FL ports and the attendant economic harm this over-reach has done to FL. His attorneys will get laughed out of Merryday's court room. That's one issue. The second issue involves cruise lines being prevented from operating from FL ports and against the law in FL but, seemingly, that FL law being in violation of existing Federal law and how this will be resolved. Specifically to allow Celebrity for sure and possibly other lines to sail in July after the FL law comes into affect. I've already opined that the FL anti proof of vaccination law would not survive a court challenge. The question remains, will it come to that? I think there's enough chatter that there will be a compromise reached before July 1st. IMO, this is the first really dumb thing Ron Desantis has done during the pandemic. He may be betting that his constituency, not knowing anything about cruising except the Diamond Princess debacle, will see Desantis as standing up against cruise lines and their disease breeding cruise ships and forget or not understand how incredibly stupid including cruise lines in his anti proof of vaccine law that cost jobs and money in and for FL. I dunno. Could have easily exempted cruise lines and made everyone happy by citing the Commerce laws that prevent states from interfering with legitimate commercial activity in and around US ports. I think I've got these two issues right. It can be confusing.

100% Sure, I get the family thing but what a PITA to have to deal with the most rigid and no-fun inducing CSO requirements for a hybrid passenger manifest of both vaxed and unvaxed. The risk of becoming infected from the unvaxed in that age cohort is low but not zero (we've covered this) and that is the circumstance that RCL has unwisely, IMO, decided to work with. The cautious cruiser without kids e,.g @TXCruiserisn't going to sail on an RCL ship in June or July for sure, probably into August. If I'm Fain, I cringe when I hear about CSRs in my sales department telling people to "go with Celebrity."

...... or perhaps it's a clown show. Sorry ..... I just can't countenance the degree of confusion I'm seeing, not just from RCL, but from a lot of lines. RCL seems to me to be very bad about this although admittedly I don't follow NCL or Carnival that closely. I'm sure there's the same kinds of bitching about lack of clear information flow among those loyalists.

I stand corrected by omission. I failed to mention there are "credible" reasons, a medical condition, including pregnancy being one of them. But it's an error by omission not one "ignoring the science and the data." Speaking of which. the data is not sufficiently robust at this point to conclude that if you've been infected with COVID in the past, you don't need to get vaccinated. The opposite is probably true and that is the CDC's position at the moment. Anecdotally (meaning there are no peer reviewed studies supporting this view), it is thought that if you had a asymptomatic or mild case of COVID, you are more likely to become infected a second time even though the occurrence rate is very low. You'll probably be asymptomatic but, if you do become infected and don't know it, you will carry and shed virus particles. The reason for that is that it is believed that your immune response, in particular Memory B cell response (humeral or adaptive immunity) is weaker than it has been found to be in serious cases of COVID or those that have been vaccinated. For infected and recovered people that don't get vaccinated one can expect the body to mount a weaker overall attack of the virus, still unknowingly carry it and be going places with the risk of infecting others. I still hold it's personal choice but to say there is science and data behind choosing not to get vaccinated if you've already had COVID is not accurate. Anecdotally and at this point in time, most experts would argue you should get vaccinated even if you've had COVID - unless you are Rand Paul - he's had COVID, thinks he doesn't need to get vaccinated and does not plan on it.

TBH, there is no credible argument for not getting vaccinated. However, it should clearly be a personal choice. I have no issues with a person telling me they aren't getting the vaccine. I don't care about the reasons - that's that person's business. OTH, I have no problems with a public or private entity requiring a vaccine (or a mask, or social distancing or shoes and a shirt) to enter or receive services. Nobody who is rational and sensible and knows the law and US court precedent upholding it (including the Supremes) should take issue with this. It's lawful to do so. The Desantis BS on banning any business from requiring vaccinations to enter or receive services (among other States Governors who have done the same) is not legally defensible. It is unlawful to do so and could be unconstitutional (another story). It is undeniably FL law that will be tossed as soon as it is challenged. So, I just don't get the kerfuffle between Desantis and Celebrity Cruise lines. The only area where personal choice involving the kinds of things we're talking about here is abortion although it remains unlawful to prevent a woman from choosing an abortion generally under state defined limits ...... for now (Roe v. Wade and all that). I'm not here to preach abortion rights but it is illustrative about freedom of choice and it's limitations in our laws. Read-up. This is an excellent article on falsehoods passed on social media platforms, like it is illegal for business to ask for proof of vaccination to enter or obtain services within. IT's NOT. Know the facts. https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/05/25/no-it-is-not-illegal-for-businesses-to-require-proof-of-vaccination/

I know there is a lot up in the air but the lines, not just RCL, seem to have problems with consistency to some key questions like: When are you planning to sail your first US revenue cruise and from what US port? PS: I know things remain fluid but what is your plan as in plan A, B C? For RCL: I understand you will not be requiring proof of vaccination to sail, right? I see you are going to have a mix of vaxed and non-vaxed passengers on US port originating sailings. What will be your protocols for masking and distancing, inside and outside your ships? For Celebrity: I understand you will require proof of vaccination to sail on your initially announced sailings from St. Maartin, Athens and Fort Lauderdale. What will be your protocols for masking and distancing, inside and outside your ships? These aren't hard questions nor should they have not been pretty much locked down at this point with it appearing that RCG ships will sail from both foreign and US ports in June/July. Count me among avid cruisers who find teaser press releases and videos annoying. Get you S### together ..... please.

As scheduled a "Settlement Conference" was held yesterday, May 27th via Zoom. According to the docket item posted today, only three people were in attendance besides the Judge and the court recorder. It went on for 11h!!! and the conference will reconvene on June 1st. I suspect there is a lot of technical issues to get through if the docket from the time Merryday sent it to mediation and today is any indicator of that. Bunch of motions filed asking for this and that to be included followed by motions as to why it shouldn't ..... mostly involving the ATSA document, which IMO, is really good. So, I suspect a lot of the discussion involved agreement or disagreement, acceptance or rejection on all of this. After I thoroughly read the Federal Register which goes back and lays out the facts that supported CDC's lawful duty to develop and implement the CSO, I thought how the CDC went about doing it was well supported, seemed completely lawful. The Register laid out the options the CDC considered. Not a lot different from my understanding of those options but it did seem to make sense. IOW, they did consider options, which is one of the claims that they did not in the ATSA Amicus filing. I don't think mediation will produce a result. I think it's more likely that both sides will harden thier postions both beleiving they are going to prevail, kick it back to Merryday and let him rule. In that case I think, based on what I read yesterday, that FL will lose. JMO, YMMV. I'd add as I commented yesterday that Desantis can't claim his FL anti-vaccination passport rule trumps whatever the CDC says (Federal Law) when his law suit v. HHS/CDC says the opposite. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flmd.388773/gov.uscourts.flmd.388773.66.0_1.pdf

Point taken. Do you think the entire cruise industry is culpable in this regard? I do to varying degrees. Frankly, Delrio may turn out to be the most honest CEO by saying, we can't do this (my words) and planning restarts late in 2021 and not competing in the race to "be first." I think we're seeing how shaky the restart is shaping up to be under the provisions of the CSO. My takeaway is: keep government out my business. The costs of regulatory interventions infrequently produce the desired benefit.

I found today's Desantis statement interesting: (quoted from Matt's story on the Home Page): Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law. The first line is a fundamental claim in FL's law suit against HHS/CDC. He gives up on this, HHS lawyers will be all over it. If I'm the judge in this case listening to oral arguments, the defendant is going to have a point. How can you argue the CDC has no legal authority to impose requirements on the cruise industry. For the record, I think he's wrong. There's an abundance of U.S.C. that under specific circumstances (up to the water's edge), the CDC, for the most part, can do what it is requiring cruise lines to do in the CSO. A federal declaration of a PHE appears to be key in that authority. Bring that to an end and the CDC's CSO is dead in the water. This is really the proverbial shit-sandwich for Desantis. I don't fell bad for him at all. IMO, it was completely avoidable. All he had to do was exempt the cruise industry from compliance with state law offering that internationally registered companies can file for an exception and we'll look at it on case by case basis considering the benefits to the state. Nonetheless, I don't think his legislation will survive a court challenge, he knows it and all this is no more than pandering to his conservative constituency.

I'm surprised Desantis publicly stated Celebrity Cruises will be in violation of legislation he orchestrated that prohibits business operating in FL from requiring vaccination to enter and/or receive services from that business. He could have just remained silent. I hate it that there will be controversy and will be in the news. But the reality is that Federal Law trumps state law in this case as @StayFrostynotes. Here's how this might go down: A compromise is reached and both sides demure not wanting to make the other look bad. No compromise is reached, Celebrity sails on 6/26 (not yet under the provision of the new law) and after (where it will be), FL fines Celebrity who then goes to court and slam dunks the FL law that pertains.