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CDC extends Conditional Sailing Order for cruises into January


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Yes, I dont blame you. We live in a weird time where we can pack stadiums full of people crammed together unmasked and uncertain of vaccination status but somehow masking on a cruise ship is a thing regardless of vaccination status BUT somehow its ok to have a dining room full of unmasked people for 2 hours while dining. But that causes less Covid risk than say if you walked unmasked in the spacious promenade????? Walked down the hallway on your floor to your room? 

I know Royal feels compelled to follow the CDC when sailing from Florida but I wish they would ignore the CDC from Florida as they are not bound to follow them. BUT Royal will ignore Florida's vaccination laws and are willing to see how the penalties play out down the line. 

Strange times indeed....

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2 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

Yes, I dont blame you. We live in a weird time where we can pack stadiums full of people crammed together unmasked and uncertain of vaccination status but somehow masking on a cruise ship is a thing regardless of vaccination status BUT somehow its ok to have a dining room full of unmasked people for 2 hours while dining. But that causes less Covid risk than say if you walked unmasked in the spacious promenade????? Walked down the hallway on your floor to your room? 

I know Royal feels compelled to follow the CDC when sailing from Florida but I wish they would ignore the CDC from Florida as they are not bound to follow them. BUT Royal will ignore Florida's vaccination laws and are willing to see how the penalties play out down the line. 

Strange times indeed....

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, I just have a question since you suggested Royal should ignore the CDC and follow Florida's vaccination laws.  My question is are you saying Royal should also ignore international laws for arriving passengers into other countries. Take the Bahamas as an example if Royal were following Florida's vaccination laws they would not be able to port in the Bahamas even at their own private island, and that is just one country there are a whole host of Caribbean Island nations that are now instituting entry requirements requiring passengers regardless of how their arrive (air or ship) to be fully vaccinated. 

It is a conundrum and unfortunately Royal is stuck in the middle, it isn't just the CDC that Royal is following in order for their cruise ships to sail they also have to comply with the laws for the countries they intend to visit.  I'm not in favor of any mandates I think people should have a choice the unfortunate reality is this if Royal and other cruise lines wish to remain in business until this madness is over they are going to have to comply with rules put in place by the countries they intend to visit.  Complying with Florida's vaccine laws could result in a shutdown of the cruise industry or severely limit the ports Royal could visit as more and more Caribbean Island nations put vaccine requirements in place for all passengers.  At this point in the pandemic this has gone far beyond the CDC and their CSO and cruise lines are now having to operate a lot like airlines meaning if an airline wishes to fly to (for example Israel) that airline must check the vaccination status and COVID test for all passengers before they leave the US. If the airline isn't willing to comply with Israeli law requiring all passengers be fully vaccinated and also present a negative test then that airline can't operate flights into Israel. Israel isn't the only country there is a long list of countries requiring full vaccinations, and the next countries on the reopening list requiring full vaccinations for all passengers is Australia which reopens in a few days or weeks.  Starting November 1st anyone 12 and older traveling from the US to Canada will be required to show proof of vaccination (until now all you needed was a negative COVID test that all changes November 1st) and soon New Zealand when they reopen will require proof of vaccination.  It is unfortunate but this is where international travel is headed at least for most if not all of 2022 and cruises from the US are no exception because we have no domestic cruises.  

Following Florida's vaccination laws would be a death sentence for Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines operating out of Florida because they can't afford to wait this out, they can't afford to wait until things go back to many of us would consider "Normal".

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9 minutes ago, JasonOasis said:

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, I just have a question since you suggested Royal should ignore the CDC and follow Florida's vaccination laws.  My question is are you saying Royal should also ignore international laws for arriving passengers into other countries. Take the Bahamas as an example if Royal were following Florida's vaccination laws they would not be able to port in the Bahamas even at their own private island, and that is just one country there are a whole host of Caribbean Island nations that are now instituting entry requirements requiring passengers regardless of how their arrive (air or ship) to be fully vaccinated. 

It is a conundrum and unfortunately Royal is stuck in the middle, it isn't just the CDC that Royal is following in order for their cruise ships to sail they also have to comply with the laws for the countries they intend to visit.  I'm not in favor of any mandates I think people should have a choice the unfortunate reality is this if Royal and other cruise lines wish to remain in business until this madness is over they are going to have to comply with rules put in place by the countries they intend to visit.  Complying with Florida's vaccine laws could result in a shutdown of the cruise industry or severely limit the ports Royal could visit as more and more Caribbean Island nations put vaccine requirements in place for all passengers.  At this point in the pandemic this has gone far beyond the CDC and their CSO and cruise lines are now having to operate a lot like airlines meaning if an airline wishes to fly to (for example Israel) that airline must check the vaccination status and COVID test for all passengers before they leave the US. If the airline isn't willing to comply with Israeli law requiring all passengers be fully vaccinated and also present a negative test then that airline can't operate flights into Israel. Israel isn't the only country there is a long list of countries requiring full vaccinations, and the next countries on the reopening list requiring full vaccinations for all passengers is Australia which reopens in a few days or weeks.  Starting November 1st anyone 12 and older traveling from the US to Canada will be required to show proof of vaccination (until now all you needed was a negative COVID test that all changes November 1st) and soon New Zealand when they reopen will require proof of vaccination.  It is unfortunate but this is where international travel is headed at least for most if not all of 2022 and cruises from the US are no exception because we have no domestic cruises.  

Following Florida's vaccination laws would be a death sentence for Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines operating out of Florida because they can't afford to wait this out, they can't afford to wait until things go back to many of us would consider "Normal".

I dont disagree with much that you are pointing out. My major sticking point with Vaccine requirements(I am vaccinated) is that they ignore natural immunity of those that have previously had Covid. I will not get into the argument over how long natural immunity vs vaccines and how long either is effective but there is enough research out there that would make a valid case for naturally acquired immunity should be included in any vaccine mandates. Just yesterday there was a major protest in NYC over vaccine mandates so it will be interesting to see how all this plays out with vaccine requirements for other sectors of travel industry when it comes to domestic travel. It seems the airline lobbyists would object to vaccine requirements to fly domestically but that matter is certainly up for debate and will play out in due time. And how willing passengers will submit to covid tests and have to pay for out of pocket. I have flown at least 20 times domestically since pandemic and that would be a hard sell to shell out covid testing costs each time vs a cruise. 

and you are right, Royal has to follow the protocols of the countries they visit and that creates the dilemma. It will be interesting to watch to see if FL follows through with fines for cruise lines and the certain court battles that will follow.

Strange times indeed and will be fascinating to watch to see how all this plays out 

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18 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Doesn't look like the CDC changed anything. They didn't change the testing windows or criteria.

I want to know what difference another 75 days makes, other than to slap the face of the cruise lines one more time during the holiday season.

It's all about saving face.  If they let the CSO expire on 10/31 while the pandemic/public health emergency order that inspired it is still active, it looks like they are admitting they lost the legal battle.  By extending the CSO and adding an end date, it looks like they are working with the cruise lines and adapting to changing circumstances.

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6 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

I dont disagree with much that you are pointing out. My major sticking point with Vaccine requirements(I am vaccinated) is that they ignore natural immunity of those that have previously had Covid. I will not get into the argument over how long natural immunity vs vaccines and how long either is effective but there is enough research out there that would make a valid case for naturally acquired immunity should be included in any vaccine mandates. Just yesterday there was a major protest in NYC over vaccine mandates so it will be interesting to see how all this plays out with vaccine requirements for other sectors of travel industry when it comes to domestic travel. It seems the airline lobbyists would object to vaccine requirements to fly domestically but that matter is certainly up for debate and will play out in due time. And how willing passengers will submit to covid tests and have to pay for out of pocket. I have flown at least 20 times domestically since pandemic and that would be a hard sell to shell out covid testing costs each time vs a cruise. 

and you are right, Royal has to follow the protocols of the countries they visit and that creates the dilemma. It will be interesting to watch to see if FL follows through with fines for cruise lines and the certain court battles that will follow.

Strange times indeed and will be fascinating to watch to see how all this plays out 

your natural immunity point is spot on.  it makes it hard to accept the whole premise when you ignore such a significant factor in the discussion.

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16 hours ago, Jennifer Burke said:

What regs have been rolled back?

 

The CDC removed the provision that voyages from a U.S. homeport can only be one week in length, and the requirement for ships to cancel all future sailings should an instance of COVID-19 be detected onboard.

Cruise lines are now no longer required to warn passengers about COVID-19 in their marketing materials and online websites.

In addition, the CDC amended the definition of vessels to allow for operation of Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America in Hawaii, and domestic U.S. river cruise operators.

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29 minutes ago, Matt said:

Yea, which was ridiculous.

From new CSO: "Removed previous requirement that cruise ship operator must immediately end voyage, cancel future voyages, and return to port if COVID-19 identified onboard."

They're misquoting their own CSO.  That was only a requirement if a never-actually-disclosed threshold of cases were found.

 

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Just realize, it seems that most people are assuming that all of these protocols stem from the CDC order.  None of us have any idea what any cruise line would do even if there were absolutely no recommendations or requirements.  Most people are assuming that they would do what they think is correct.  Unless you are the CEO of a cruise line, that is not a logical assumption.

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23 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Just realize, it seems that most people are assuming that all of these protocols stem from the CDC order.  None of us have any idea what any cruise line would do even if there were absolutely no recommendations or requirements.  Most people are assuming that they would do what they think is correct.  Unless you are the CEO of a cruise line, that is not a logical assumption.

Just realize that the CEO of the cruise lines know that sick people on cruise ships do not equal good PR or increase revenue. 

The cruise lines have a vested interest in protecting their passengers and that is what informs their health protocols. Notice that the CDC did not regulate the airline industry.

Nor did they regulate Casinos in Las Vegas that operate very much the same way cruise ships with large amounts of people staying in hotels for a week, dining together, in the casino together, entertainment together. 

The cruise lines know they have to appease the CDC right now to avoid shut downs moving forward. But most of the protocols we see now on cruise lines would have happened with or without CDC guidance and CDC ultimate overreach just like the CDC overreached on Evictions

Edited to Add: and do you need the CDC in your daily life to tell you what activities and habits or activities are bad for your health or would you have come to that conclusion on your own with your personal freedom and responsibility

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1 hour ago, MrMarc said:

None of us have any idea what any cruise line would do even if there were absolutely no recommendations or requirements.  

Actually, we do, via the Healthy Sail Panel

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/dam/royal/resources/pdf/healthy-sail-panel-full-recommendations.pdf

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