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Celebrity Beyond Announcement coming April 29, 2021


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11 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

But to do that without actually giving better itineraries or onboard perks / amenities is stupid. Making drinks, WiFi, and gratuities included offsets that to a tiny degree, since as you noted many times in other threads that was basically already a perk once you hit Elite or Zenith, or stayed in any suite.

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

Including drinks and wifi does not equate to luxury.  We'll see if Beyond changes the equation but true luxury requires better crew:guest ratios.  I've long said you can't scale luxury into mass market but maybe X can prove me wrong.  

A smart exec at one of those lines would introduce a status match program.  

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10 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

But to do that without actually giving better itineraries or onboard perks / amenities is stupid. Making drinks, WiFi, and gratuities included offsets that to a tiny degree, since as you noted many times in other threads that was basically already a perk once you hit Elite or Zenith, or stayed in any suite.

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

 

Sometimes cruise lines change.  My in-laws used to love to sail on NCL in the 90's.  They ended up at the highest "Latitudes" level that existed at the time (more have been added since).  But then NCL implemented their "Freestyle Dining" program, and they weren't pleased.  They gave it a try for a few more sailings, but they rarely sail NCL anymore.

This is one reason why chasing loyalty program level's is risky.  Better to pick the "best" cruise, and not limit yourself to a specific line.  Perhaps that means going with Princess or HAL for that one off Alaska cruise, and then going back to your preferred cruise line for your yearly Caribbean cruise, or whatever.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

I'm in that group but not fuming and no, I'm not sailing on either Princess or HAL any time soon. The price of a cruise vacation has gone up, no doubt but, it still remains a remarkable value. What I don't welcome though is the industry wide drift to exclusivity and the up-pricing that goes with it. So far, that hasn't fully filtered down to, what is for me, affordable cabins.  I also don't feel like I'm treated any differently on a Celebrity ship itself because I booked an OV cabin on deck 4. I think it's coming though.

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9 minutes ago, twangster said:

A smart exec at one of those lines would introduce a status match program.  

It would be smart, but it seems like Carnival corp doesn't believe in status matches.  They can't even figure out how to do a match between Princess and Cunard or HAL.

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23 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Interesting on your SS comments and the reason Luttoff-Perlo ditched Azamara. I've often thought that Lutoff-Perlo was overly aggressive in changing the culture of the Celebrity brand - got rid of a ton of stuff I liked, holdovers from the Chantris ownership era. One of them was the golden age of cruising themed restaurants on the M class ships. Also downplayed Celebrity's X for excellence and substituted it for an E for expensive.... not really the X is still on the stacks but you get the point. 

Richard is pulling a lot of those strings too, this isn't just Lisa, I suspect it's his master plan, she is just the executioner.  

There are a lot of people willing and able to spend money to be bourgeoise.  They are simply being the outlet for this demographic.  This demographic doesn't want true luxury as in SS, that's too old and stuffy.  

I suspect Beyond may be very successful even if they lose some long time X base.

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32 minutes ago, JeffB said:

What I don't welcome though is the industry wide drift to exclusivity and the up-pricing that goes with it. So far, that hasn't fully filtered down to, what is for me, affordable cabins.  I also don't feel like I'm treated any differently on a Celebrity ship itself because I booked an OV cabin on deck 4. I think it's coming though.

They are all doing it.  MSC Yacht Club, Celebrity Retreat, NCL Haven and now Wonder's eighth neighborhood.  Beyond's Retreat is two level, growing bigger.

The olden days are coming back.  You have your first class passengers and steerage.  The two never mingle, except in the movies.

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4 hours ago, twangster said:

In my case I am comparing it to a 2023 Star Class booking.  I looked at that pricing again today. 

I can sail in a Star Class suite in 2023 for 80% of a balcony on Beyond on a similar sailing in the same region.

So apparently the high demand, low supply is only a Celebrity thing.

I'm only seeing Beyond itineraries out to 4/23 - still pent up demand for less Celebrity cabins.  How are you comparing cabins, foot print or just class.   Lowest/highest Star against an Iconic Suite?  Older Q/O class to new Edge class (Beyond).  There's  quite a swing in Celebrity Retreat classes.  Edge class ships are smaller than Q or O class so less inventory per ship (3000ish passenger to 5000ish).  Agree Beyond pricing is reaching beyond the Stars (pun intended).  Royal offers far more inventory.

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17 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

I'm only seeing Beyond itineraries out to 4/23 - still pent up demand for less Celebrity cabins.  How are you comparing cabins, foot print or just class.   Lowest/highest Star against an Iconic Suite?  Older Q/O class to new Edge class (Beyond).  There's  quite a swing in Celebrity Retreat classes.  Edge class ships are smaller than Q or O class so less inventory per ship (3000ish passenger to 5000ish).  Agree Beyond pricing is reaching beyond the Stars (pun intended).  Royal offers far more inventory.

SilverSea has even less inventory.  

I don't believe supply and demand are factors.  I just don't see it. 

If Celebrity can get people to pay Beyond prices that's great.  More power to them but it's not due to supply and demand. 

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11 minutes ago, twangster said:

SilverSea has even less inventory.  

I don't believe supply and demand are factors.  I just don't see it. 

If Celebrity can get people to pay Beyond prices that's great.  More power to them but it's not due to supply and demand. 

And SS has higher prices too, without the overhead rate of a larger ship (less restaurants, toys, attractions, but better crew/passenger ratio).   Supply is a factor in pricing, low quantity of high desirable service/product allows for  price inflation  - Econ 101.   I'll agree Celebrity charges a premium rate, and if they have problems filling cabins, you'll see prices adjust accordingly.   And Celebrity has always jacked up the price on new ships - especially Edge class.   We held off a year on sailing Edge because the early cruises were stupid high for suites.  Rates came down, and we got a decent deal.  Now  Apex is getting the premium rate over Edge.   Next year, I'm sure we'll see Apex adjust.  The premium price can result in greater margin for the company. - especially since they've been sucking wind for over a year.   

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18 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

And SS has higher prices too, without the overhead rate of a larger ship (less restaurants, toys, attractions, but better crew/passenger ratio).   Supply is a factor in pricing, low quantity of high desirable service/product allows for  price inflation  - Econ 101.   I'll agree Celebrity charges a premium rate, and if they have problems filling cabins, you'll see prices adjust accordingly.   And Celebrity has always jacked up the price on new ships - especially Edge class.   We held off a year on sailing Edge because the early cruises were stupid high for suites.  Rates came down, and we got a decent deal.  Now  Apex is getting the premium rate over Edge.   Next year, I'm sure we'll see Apex adjust.  The premium price can result in greater margin for the company. - especially since they've been sucking wind for over a year.   

One ship in a fleet doubles pricing.  

This is one where we will have to agree to disagree.  

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Beyond is 20m longer, 1 deck higher.  Up from 129,500 GT to 140,600 GT.

Two level retreat is 40% larger, accommodates 292.  "A resort within a resort".  Round pool instead of square pool.

Luminae moves to deck 16, ~10% larger with increased capacity.

Sunset Bar is 81% larger.

Larger resort deck with 8 raised cabanas that face the pool.

Rooftop Garden with two cantilevered pools.

New Aquaclass Suite blends Aquaclass with Suites.  Twenty suites in this class, sleeps 2.  Access to the thermal spa.  Retreat and Luminae access. 

Grand Plaza 16% larger.  Martini Bar move to center.

New restaurant by Daniel Boulud "Le Voyage".

 

 

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9 minutes ago, twangster said:

Beyond is 20m longer, 1 deck higher.

Two level retreat is 40% larger, accommodates 292.  "A resort within a resort".  Round pool instead of square pool.

Luminae moves to deck 16, ~10% larger with increased capacity.

Sunset Bar is 81% larger.

Larger resort deck with 8 raised cabanas that face the pool.

Rooftop Garden with two cantilevered pools.

New Aquaclass Suite blends Aquaclass with Suites.  "Luminae with a side of Blu". Twenty suites in this class, sleeps 2.  Access to the thermal spa.  Retreat access. 

Grand Plaza 16% larger.  Martini Bar move to center.

New restaurant by Daniel Boulud "Le Voyage".

 

 

Good adds.    Lessons learned from the first Edge - hope they put more wind baffling around Magic Carpet so it can be used more for dining.  Once in the Retreat area, you tend to spend most of your spare time there as the bar and food service is far more responsive - more space is good welcome.    "Le Voyage" doesn't interest me yet - will need to see first hand.  - I found the Daniel B menus Chef's table and Luminae offerings  not be to all that great (IMO).  If you sail Celeb often - the DB offerings became too repetitive  (like the standard offerings in other dining areas).  Preferred when the ship executive  chef created their own specialty dishes that were different between ships and allowed their own creativity to show.

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15 minutes ago, twangster said:

Comparison grid to other Edge class

1412953217_EdgeClassComparison.thumb.jpg.01f3ecdae08d9b5cb68af8057be9c698.jpg

BEYOND_Reveal_Comparison_Grid.pdf 177.52 kB · 0 downloads

 

Movement of Luminae makes sense.  Retreat food was prepared in the Luminae galley so the movement will improve food quality, transportation (wait time) to the Retreat area.

Edge martini bar design was criticized because it lacked space and did away with the "ice top".   Sounds like they fixed the design in Beyond with the 360 design like in the legacy ships.  Probably left the ice top off as that's an additional health complication due to cleaning and sanitization. Now that's worth the high cost -- ?

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8 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Movement of Luminae makes sense.  Retreat food was prepared in the Luminae galley so the movement will improve food quality, transportation (wait time) to the Retreat area.

Edge martini bar design was criticized because it lacked space and did away with the "ice top".   Sounds like they fixed the design in Beyond with the 360 design like in the legacy ships.  Probably left the ice top off as that's an additional health complication due to cleaning and sanitization. Now that's worth the high cost -- ?

1039377665_XBeyondGP1.thumb.jpg.657fe6ec363ba197329e6b4f6a3ee8f3.jpg

1159001827_XBeyondGP2.thumb.jpg.d45c5bdbbcc759ec5bf17f0e236651cb.jpg

 

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22 minutes ago, twangster said:

Comparison grid to other Edge class

1412953217_EdgeClassComparison.thumb.jpg.01f3ecdae08d9b5cb68af8057be9c698.jpg

BEYOND_Reveal_Comparison_Grid.pdf 177.52 kB · 0 downloads

 

+350 additional passenger capacity.  I wonder if they needed to add an additional lifeboat/tender/raft or increase capacity on existing boats ?   Practical crew/passenger capacity is limited by available lifeboat seating.

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8 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

+350 additional passenger capacity.  I wonder if they needed to add an additional lifeboat/tender/raft or increase capacity on existing boats ?   Practical crew/passenger capacity is limited by available lifeboat seating.

Larger ship so more lifeboats are likely.  

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