Drone Use in ALASKA?

[Moby Dick]

I know that you can't fly a drone while on a Royal ship.  However, what I'm most interested in, is GPS signal an issue in Alaska cruise port locations.  The angle to which GPS satellites orbit and the tall mountains AND the limit of "LEGALLY" flying a drone at no more than 400 feet in altitude makes me wonder if it creates an issue.  I'd love to, for example, fly my drone and video the base of Mendenhall Glacier and follow it up vertically and so much more.  But, I hate to fly my drone without the capability for it to automatically come back if something went wrong.

Juneau is Drone friendly, as far as I can tell (B4UFLY doesn't have any restriction close to where I want to fly).  The tram up to Roberts Mtn is a private business and property, I'm guessing.  So, I'll have to ask if they mind me flying it/control it from their property.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by jay1021
oops - signal vs single

[twangster]

Mendenhall is a National Park operated by the USDA.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tongass/about-forest/offices/?cid=stelprdb5400800

There are public sidewalks around town at and around the base of Mt. Roberts.  However that doesn't mean you'll be welcome to launch and operate from there.  There is a lot of commercial aviation, float planes and helicopter traffic in the area.  Gastineau Channel is in the glide slope for Juneau's main airport for example.

Skagway has an active airport with both fixed wing and rotary commercial aircraft virtually next to the docks.  The general Skagway town area is also a National Park operated by the National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/klgo/index.htm

Both are example of federal agencies that find themselves at odds with the FAA declaration that only the FAA can regulate the skies.  

Apps like B4UFLY don't do a very good job of keeping you "out of jail" figuratively speaking  for every potential violation you can find yourself in.  This is an evolving area of law that benefits from a lot of research and inquiries before flying.

As a certified UAS pilot I know all too well how the scores of drone yahoos have ruined the landscape for us well intentioned drone operators.

[Moby Dick]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Mendenhall is a National Park operated by the USDA.  

See:  https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/home/?cid=fseprd689590  Read the last sentence of the first paragraph

 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tongass/about-forest/offices/?cid=stelprdb5400800

There are public sidewalks around town at and around the base of Mt. Roberts.  However that doesn't mean you'll be welcome to launch and operate from there.  There is a lot of commercial aviation, float planes and helicopter traffic in the area.  Gastineau Channel is in the glide slope for Juneau's main airport for example.

Skagway has an active airport with both fixed wing and rotary commercial aircraft virtually next to the docks.  The general Skagway town area is also a National Park operated by the National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/klgo/index.htm

Both are example of federal agencies that find themselves at odds with the FAA declaration that only the FAA can regulate the skies.  There's nothing to be at odds with, Congress made a law giving complete and total control of all airspace to the FAA, which is a good thing

Apps like B4UFLY don't do a very good job of keeping you "out of jail" figuratively speaking  for every potential violation you can find yourself in.  This is an evolving area of law that benefits from a lot of research and inquiries before flying.

As a certified UAS pilot I know all too well how the scores of drone yahoos have ruined the landscape for us well intentioned drone operators.

Don't take this as an attack on your response, I do appreciate your response, though. 

There is a National Park nearby, Glacier Bay National Park. Mendenhall is not a National Park not the portion near the Nugget Falls, the visitors center falls under the National Forrest service and drones are not banned in Forest service lands (a few exceptions apply, like congressionally recognized/designated wildlife refuges.  I don't think Mendenhall or the south side of Juneau is in any Federal Park system or the airport restricted airspace.  Yes, there is an airport in Juneau and the "NO FLY" boundaries are clearly marked in B4UFLY, see below.  No restrictions very near the Cruise Ship Piers.  I can even fly over people (I have prop guards), now, but I don't.  I can fly at night (I have a light for the drone), now, but I don't.  My drone is FAA registered and I've met the minimum requirements in existence, today.  I don't go into these things uninformed, I've read all the recent regulations and changes to them.  A lot has changed in the past few year.  And I have been flying for sever years.

The B4UFLY app is the FAA's recommended program, it's actually in the FAA's website to download the app. I also use others, if in doubt, do LAANC.  The only agency in the country that can regulate airspace is the FAA (some DOD agencies have limited authority), per congress in, I believe, 2018, I could be off with that a little.  Yes, it is against the law to Fly a drone in a National Park, that's for sure, which I'm not thinking of flying in.  But, the FAA is the regulating agency.  NO other agency can dictate where you can fly a drone.  Other jurisdictions can regulate where you stand and fly a drone.  But, for example:  If a city, county, or state has a law that prohibits flying over their park(s), you can fly over their parks.  Now, if they say you can't fly a drone from within their Park system, you can's stand in one of their parks and fly the drone from there.  BUT, I can stand 1 foot outside the park boundary and fly the drone over the park.  I can't fly a drone from within private property if the owner doesn't want me there, but he can't stop me from flying over it controlling if from elsewhere.  Some states have privacy laws with cameras, that's totally different.  

It is my responsibility to avoid hazardous situations even in locations where it is legal to fly.  So, I'll avoid the Float Planes, et al.  I won't take off from sidewalks (a few exceptions apply), even though legal.  I won't harass wildlife, even if outside a wildlife refuge. I am a responsible drone flyer.  

My question was about GPS.  ANYBODY?

 

BTW, I get the FAAsafety.gov email everyday with updates with VIP restrictions/notices and a bunch of other things that change on a moments notice.  

 

 

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Mendenhall is a National Park operated by the USDA.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tongass/about-forest/offices/?cid=stelprdb5400800

There are public sidewalks around town at and around the base of Mt. Roberts.  However that doesn't mean you'll be welcome to launch and operate from there.  There is a lot of commercial aviation, float planes and helicopter traffic in the area.  Gastineau Channel is in the glide slope for Juneau's main airport for example.

Skagway has an active airport with both fixed wing and rotary commercial aircraft virtually next to the docks.  The general Skagway town area is also a National Park operated by the National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/klgo/index.htm

Both are example of federal agencies that find themselves at odds with the FAA declaration that only the FAA can regulate the skies.  

Apps like B4UFLY don't do a very good job of keeping you "out of jail" figuratively speaking  for every potential violation you can find yourself in.  This is an evolving area of law that benefits from a lot of research and inquiries before flying.

As a certified UAS pilot I know all too well how the scores of drone yahoos have ruined the landscape for us well intentioned drone operators.

This is a link to the Official map of Glacier Bay National Park"  https://www.nps.gov/glba/planyourvisit/maps.htm  You'll note that Juneau and the Glacier where it meets the bay is not within the boundaries of the Park.

 

I 

[Moby Dick]

This is the official map of the Glacier Bay National Park:  https://www.nps.gov/glba/planyourvisit/maps.htm  You'll note that it doesn't encompass Juneau or Mendenhall.

[Moby Dick]

My last post got screwed up, sorry.  I was interrupted several times and lost track of where my screen was and what I answered/typed.  But, I don't want to go back and edit the entire thing.  I might make things worse.

[twangster]

Very curious how you obtained compliance to fly over people but since you only want to talk GPS I'll leave this thread alone.  

[Moby Dick]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

Very curious how you obtained compliance to fly over people but since you only want to talk GPS I'll leave this thread alone.  

I didn't "obtain compliance to fly over people"!  It's the law now.  As I said, there has been a lot of changes in the past few years.  To be compliant, you can not have sustained flight over people, you can't hover over people, you can't zig zag continuously over people and you must insure that your props will not create laceration in/on human skin, hence the prop guards:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/operations_over_people/

The Operation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People final rule is the next incremental step towards further integration of unmanned aircraft (UA) in the National Airspace System. The final rule allows routine operations over people and routine operations at night under certain circumstances. The rule will eliminate the need for typical operations to receive individual part 107 certificate of waivers from the FAA.

The rule was published in the Federal Register on January 15, 2021. Corrections to the final rule were published in the Federal Register on March 10, 2021 delaying the effective date from March 16, 2021 to April 21, 2021.

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, jay1021 said:

I didn't "obtain compliance to fly over people"!  It's the law now.  As I said, there has been a lot of changes in the past few years.  To be compliant, you can not have sustained flight over people, you can't hover over people, you can't zig zag continuously over people and you must insure that your props will not create laceration in/on human skin, hence the prop guards:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/operations_over_people/

The Operation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People final rule is the next incremental step towards further integration of unmanned aircraft (UA) in the National Airspace System. The final rule allows routine operations over people and routine operations at night under certain circumstances. The rule will eliminate the need for typical operations to receive individual part 107 certificate of waivers from the FAA.

The rule was published in the Federal Register on January 15, 2021. Corrections to the final rule were published in the Federal Register on March 10, 2021 delaying the effective date from March 16, 2021 to April 21, 2021.

I have my part 107 and have completed recurrent training in 2022.  I am aware of the laceration aspect.

There are no category 2 or 3 drones that have achieved a declaration of compliance yet.

https://uasdoc.faa.gov/listDocs

Category 1 drones have to be less than 0.55 lbs with any prop guards installed.  Most of the drones available for retail sale in the US don't meet this requirement once prop guards are installed.

You've stated you have a compliant drone for OOP so I was simply curious how you managed to achieve compliance.  I'm not trying to start anything here, I am shopping for a lighter drone myself.  

[Moby Dick]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:07 PM, twangster said:

I have my part 107 and have completed recurrent training in 2022.  I am aware of the laceration aspect.

There are no category 2 or 3 drones that have achieved a declaration of compliance yet.  Nope, and that has been discussed a lot.  Many think that the FAA has given guidance on what is safe and what is not, therefore making it a "Self Compliance" situation, on purpose.

https://uasdoc.faa.gov/listDocs

Category 1 drones have to be less than 0.55 lbs with any prop guards installed.  Most of the drones available for retail sale in the US don't meet this requirement once prop guards are installed.  My drone is about 247 grams, with a prop guard it exceeds the 250 gram restriction.  However, I have registered my drone which makes it legal to fly being over the 250 gram restriction.

You've stated you have a compliant drone for OOP so I was simply curious how you managed to achieve compliance.  I'm not trying to start anything here, I am shopping for a lighter drone myself.  My drone and I are in complete compliance with all existing rules/regulations/laws.  Drones, especially the ones under 55 lbs, have a only a few compliance standards other than guidance that leads to "Self Compliance".  A deep search into this will provide a wide range of ambiguity within the FAAs UAS policies/procedures/rules/regulations/laws.  Therefore, if it isn't specifically address (compliance standards that is), it's self compliance.  I've achieved compliance by following all existing... all of the above.  No one can accuse me of not complying with a non-existing compliance standard.  As long as I have a prop guard on my drone, they don't spell out what the prop guard has to be made of, how strong it must be .........., I've got a prop guard.  I've done what I can to meet the guidance that the FAA has given me.  Am I compliant?  Not specifically because there is NO COMPLIANCE STANDARD!  What happens is, if I'm flying my drone and it goes into uncontrolled decent and I hit a person and the props lacerate the skin, I'm liable for that incident, civilly, not legally.  But, there is no law/rule/regulation that I can be held to because there is no law/rule/regulation that spells out how a prop guard is made, what material it is made of, what the strength it has to be, how big the mesh has to be apart, how it is attached to the aircraft .....

My drone is a DJI Mini 2, I've had 3 of them so far (don't ask ).  I don't need anything better.  For what I do, it's perfect.  I only fly a drone for amateur  photography purposes.  The 4K camera and many of the effects that it's capable of doing, I like, especially the sphere effect.  

 

[twangster]

As far as GPS goes, those are polar orbiting satellites.  You'll be fine in most places.  

[Moby Dick]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

As far as GPS goes, those are polar orbiting satellites.  You'll be fine in most places.  

That's good to hear. 

[Moby Dick]

20 hours ago, jay1021 said:

 

I don't mean to drag this out.  But, I neglected to mention something very important:  There is NO requirement to have a prop guard on a drone, none.  Even if you do fly over people.  There is only the FAA saying that your drone props can not lacerate human skin.  That is another example of "Self Compliance", being a responsible drone pilot, I purchased prop guards that snap on, snap off from DJI.  I don't remember reading anything about prop guards in the any of the FAA sites pages.  There may be some, but I don't remember any.

I'm looking forward to making several videos of the glacier and falls near Juneau.  It's Royal that is making this possible for me.  Thank you, Royal.

Yes, I've changed my "screen name".

[DroneZoneSeeker]

Thanks for the great analysis and discussion.

Mendenhall and Nugget Falls are not within a National Park - it's part of the Tongass National Forest. We checked LAANC and B4YOUFLY and got an all-clear. We spoke to the park rangers, and they told us where we could fly (beach by Nugget Falls). There's not a lot of information available about this area, and you really need to dig into the sectional charts to see that it is uncontrolled airspace.

However, I would add that the Forest Rangers made it quite clear not to fly over people or wildlife. 

[Moby Dick]

17 hours ago, DroneZoneSeeker said:

Thanks for the great analysis and discussion.

Mendenhall and Nugget Falls are not within a National Park - it's part of the Tongass National Forest. We checked LAANC and B4YOUFLY and got an all-clear. Yep, that's what I said above.  National Forests do not have Drone prohibited unless singled out by Congress as wildlife refuge and that's usually a specific areas within a forest. We spoke to the park rangers, and they told us where we could fly (beach by Nugget Falls). There's not a lot of information available about this area, and you really need to dig into the sectional charts to see that it is uncontrolled airspace.

However, I would add that the Forest Rangers made it quite clear not to fly over people or wildlife.  Park rangers have absolutely no control over uncontrolled airspace, none.  They can't tell you (well they can tell you but tell them you want to speak to a supervisor or manager) not to fly over people when the FAA has authorized it, with some restrictions (sustained flight over people, for example).  Also, flying over animals isn't specifically prohibited, you just can not harass them.   It's next to impossible to fly over any natural area without flying over some type of animal.  

You'll note that Mendenhall Glacier and Nugget Falls aren't in any controlled airspace.  And there, at this minute, no VIP or any other temporary restrictions (FAAsafety.gov) in the area.  

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Moby Dick
Not meant to be a harsh post. I'm just passionate about flying drones and correct info. and protecting the right!

[Moby Dick]

BTW, I flew my drone from the top of Roberts Mtn, at the Tram Station up there.  It didn't respond properly so I discontinued.  I thought I lost it once.  But, not problem from the beach at Nugget Falls.  I flew it all the way over to the base of the Glacier, it lost connection to the controller and flew back to the home point, as it should have.