JFCruise

So when you choose the "refundable deposit", you are charged an additional amount. The only difference between doing this and going straight with the NRD is that if you back out, you get your NRD back. I can easily see how that difference could be consituted as insuring the NRD, in a way. If you back out, you collect your NRD. If you go through with your cruise, you 'lose' that premium. If you look at my original post, I pasted a screenshot with these 3 variables.

But isn't having the refundable "deposit" (or however you want to call it) exactly that, a premium for which you may or may not get a return (the $500 NRD)? I think we are saying the same thing and coming up with the same conclusion, just with a different perspective. I removed the whole non-deposit part of the fare for simplicity's sake - because you are paying the $4727.28 regardless of what type of fare you chose. You could do the same calculations you did without that part of the equation and get the same result. For the first part - yes this is true, the delta will change. Sadly we can't have a one-size-fit-all algorythm - you need 2 inputs: the deposit amount and the premium for a refundable rate. And as you say they change all the time. My algorythm is assuming you are taking the decision now - because we don't know how those amounts will change on the future. Plus the whole fare increase makes the exercise moot. You can pay for the refundable fare today, and in a month, it's cheaper than the non-refundable. For your second part, it's a big part of it. And sadly for the algorythm, we can't easily put a definition to 30% odds of taking a cruise. No worries, and I like doing this sort of excecises and expanding on them, so if you have a spreadsheet by all means, do share.

Not Anthem-specific but: 1. First day sign them up for Adventure Ocean. You can do it in that awful time between getting on the ship and your room being ready. If you don't sign them up, then you can't leave them there during the cruise. To do this, go to AO and just say you want to sign them up, they will swipe your card, so you are registered as the one to pick them up. On my latest cruise in Allure - first with a kid - I realized they have some fun 'family' activities at AO, like movie day, a puppet show, and a steel drum "class". 2. https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/anthem-of-the-seas/things-to-do That should give you a general idea what there is to do on the ship, and what is included. Apparently the bumper cars are, so that's great! One thing is to check the planner to make sure what shows are age appropiate. I don't know if 'We Will Rock You' (I'm jealous now) is adult oriented or not. Anything that's not for all ages will be clearly marked. I can assure you that 'The Quest' and the 'Love and Marriage Show' are not for kids. 3. Dining - off that's kind of a weird question. But my answer would be: Do whatever you want. If you are doing only MDR, they have a kids menu but they can order off the adult menu. 4. What to do on port is also very subjective. My recommendation would be to research beforehand each port. You can also look in the Planner for the Shore Excursions for ideas, and find something you will all like. Usually booking the excursion beforehand will be cheaper than doing it onboard. Or you can book externally. But the planner gives you a good general sense of what there is to do at each port. 5. Always check the daily planner for activities. There's always something for everyone and anything that is not including ie. Bingo will be marked with a ($). There's all sorts of trivia, games, and things to do. 6. Don't stress too much. I've cruised both as a kid -well, a late teen - and with a kid. Usually no one is going to be a bother. Almost every passenger would at best have a friendly small talk and at worse ignore your kids. The staff is always friendly.

And the chicken tenders are pretty good

Totall! This is more of a hyopthetical experiment of when a refundable deposit is is worth it vs not, depending on the odds of going. However, I think that if you are sure you are going - except for an emergency - you should probably take the NRD since it will always be cheaper.

In this case, the Refundable deposit (or at least what I'm using as such) is that $634. You are paying the other $4727.28 regardless. So the only concern is if you should pay the extra $634 to "protect" your $500 deposit. If your decision is a true cointoss (50-50 odds you go/no go) then the XC for the refundable deposit is $317. So you are probably better off taking the gamble on the RD.

Yeah I'd probably go Salmon on this day, plus the Mac and Cheese to share.

Yes. By multiplying the cost x the probability of cancelling, it gives you an 'Expected' cost. In this case, 'Expected' is more of a probabilistic term than a 'real' one. And - it's not picky at all, but what is the amount of the reduced fare you are talking about? In the few cruised I looked for these, plus the past few I've booked - from experience - I've never really seen no difference between NRD and RD. That would obviously be a no brainer because the XC of the refundable is 0 in any case.

The NRD is basically minimum initial deposit you have to pay. In case of cancellation, Royal Caribbean does not return that deposit - but would return any extra payments you might have done before Final Payment. That quantity is per peson and is dependent on the number of nights. The RD is basically an insurance policy where, if you cancel your cruise, you don't lose that initial deposit. In the two cruises I checked, it was per stateroom.

Good to know they call before delivery. It's fine, just might have to change the approach slightly. Or maybe try and ask them not to do it.

@instaGator - I tried to keep it as simple as possible, to be fair. Because there are way too many variables to actually have a very speciifc approach. And especially because I did it mostly for the fun of it. The idea was just comparing NRD vs RD in a straight up "yeah I'm not gonna go" scenario, not involving changes or anything like that. I would have to have a way more complex XC to include all the possibilities but that's way beyond my knowledge. I think this IS baked into the model, though. Since you might book the RD without being 100% convinced of going. It's just a matter of how sure you are.

I think this might be one of the most common questions "Is the Refundable Deposit Worth It"? And I was curious to see how "worth it" it was, using math and probabilities. So I fired up Excel and tried to figure out when it's worth it. Let's start with a couple of disclaimers: 1. Deposit amounts change per sailing, depending on the number of nights and the number of people in the stateroom. There's no way I'm going through every single possibility, but I'm putting the framework so that anyone can verify using their specific sailings. 2. This is mostly an experiment out of curiosity and for fun. I may have some things wrong. Now - the first thing we need to define is something I call Expected Cost (XC for short going forward), which is nothing but the 'deposit' cost that we should expect. For example, if you are going on a Cruise and the NRD is $500 - then your XC would be $500. Your XC for the RD on the same sailing - assuming a 250/room would be $750, in a 100% odds of going to the cruise, but $0 if the odds of going is 0% (why even do this, though?). When it gets intersting is everything in between. The idea here is to minimize the risk of overspending. So for each probability, we need to multiply the XC of the RD. The XC for the NRD is always going to be 100% because, if you don't take the cruise, you lose that money. Always. Let's assume a 2 person, 8 night cruise. The NRD per person is $250 and the RD is $250/room (or $125/person). The XC of the NRD is $500 If the odds of not canceling are 0%, the XC of the RD is $750. Or a loss of $250 If the odds are 50%, the XC-RD = $375, or a "win" of $125 The break point is at about 35%. Which means that if the chances of you canceling this specific cruise is about 35%, you should probable take the Refundable Deposit. I did the same with a 5 night cruise where the NRD was $100/person and the RD was $104/room and the results were the same. When it changes, is when you add more people to the room. On the same 5N, but adding a third person, the NRD goes up by $100, bt the RD stays the same. In this case, the break point is closer to 25%. I've attached a table showing what I've done. Now feel free to roast me if anything seems wrong.

For some reasons I thought they didn't have the second formal night but did have the Bon Voyage. Good to know. I also said Mexico because I forgot the Caribbean menu existed, which makes more sense for that trip. Now I'm curious about the Taste of the USA menu.

You can check on the app. Dining - Main Dining - Choose any of the Main Dining Rooms - Menu. And it should give you the menus for each day. Without checking, my guess would be: 1. Welcome Aboard 2. France (formal) 3. Italy 4. Mexico 5. Bon Voyage

We were thinking of having the coffee delivered to us at around 7:30. That's usually around the time our kid wakes up. And thanks everyone above for the tips on the...well...tips.

Room Service basically has 2 options. Either the 'continental' or 'american'. Continental is complimentary, but the American is $8. I wasn't much of a room service person. But with a child that wakes up and wants breakfast, and me being a 'give me coffee first', I thought ordering continental breakfast every day seems like a good idea. Anyways - I know tips are a controversial topic, but if you were to tip for Continental Break, what would be something that is well seen? Or is tipping for room service not common? I don't want to be an asshole to the person who is going to make my morning that much more better, to be honest. And a somewhat related topic, is there a way for them to leave the food by the door? Or do I need to open the door for them?

Cruise compass for Liberty, July 18 2023. Day 2. https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/cruise-compasses/liberty-of-the-seas/tue-07182023-0000

1. Looking at the Deck plan for Liberty - it looks like the spacious stateroom pops into the hallway a little more. The difference is 20 sq feet which isn't that much anyways. Unless the deck plan is lying. https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/liberty-of-the-seas/deck-plans/2234/06 6. Royal Caribbean is not your mom. They really don't care if you get arrested for not following local laws. They warn you about out of courtesy (and probably for legal reasons), but if you don't follow the warnings, it's on you. 9. LOL. I've been to ships with Saturday Night Fever, Mamma Mia!, and in a month Grease. They clearly warn in the daily planner and all their advertisements for these shows that there is adult content. That's on you for either not paying attention to these very visible warnings or ignoring them. The same applies to The Quest and (I'm not 100% sure of this) the Love and Marriage game. I'm not a big fan of Broadway shows, but I still believe that it is time well spent when your entrance has been included. 10. Yeah, I don't buy this one bit. All experiences, including mine but some years ago, seem to directly contradict this. Also -regarding the 'significant language barrier, it seems like your first language is English based on this amazingly long rant. Everyone, or almost anyone, on the ship is competent in english even if it isn't their first language.

Can I go there and just sit and watch a game if it's on, without needing to actually buy anything - food/drink? I read that it's a bar, but I'm also reading here that kids are allowed.

That's what I get for replying before finishing my coffee

I'll keep that in mind. As far as MDR - I've always had dinner there. Never in the buffet or restaurant or whatever. I've never had a problem with something that wasn't good, except for one time I ordered a dessert I misread and wasn't what I was expecting, but whatever. I find small portions as a pro, because you're able to have more variety.

Not to sound pedantic, but coffee isn't food. The cupcakes well, yeah I forgot about that. I do, disagree with the "it's only late night food". There's usually always some people in there at all times, and even I go there for a slice at a random afternoon time once or twice per cruise. Either way, I really hope they have some good sense about it.

Are portion sizes similar to the MDR? In the MDR my wife and I can usually have more than one starter/entree but we aren't the biggest of eaters. And I'm like you, I'm usually a steak purist, to the point where I almost never order steak at restaruants and prefer to do it myself, by my own rules. But a sauce that's made with a pretty expensive wine sounds interesting.

I'm probably way off - but do RC have any sort of grab-and-go food that costs money? I can't really think of one, but I'm not as experienced as others so I might be off. I doub that the model for Sorrentos is made for charging. Lines can get long at certain hours and charging upfront would make lines even slower and longer and more annoying. They may be thinking about charging for "create your own" pizza, or even they are feeling out if they might want to add a paid pizza option - hopefully with better quality - that is additional to Sorrento's. I don't think they are that dense. I can't imagine too much people lining up to pay for very meh pizza.

Thanks for the info. I saw the filet on the menu and it's in the "definitely maybe" category for when we sail. I usually try to avoid ordering steak at restaurants because I always end up dissapointed, but the Barolo sauce sounds interesting.