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Cruise from Baltimore MD


Susie

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I live in Maryland so for our convenience, we cruised from Baltimore 5 times with Grandeur of the Seas. Occasionally, we will go to FL, NJ or NY. However, Grandeur becomes the ship that we cannot find much to do when my son getting older. Is there any plan with a newer ship sailing from Baltimore? I know about the bridges problem with Baltimore. Does Royal Caribbean have any plan about building a new port somewhere that a bigger ship can be sail from Maryland? I think Maryland is a great investment for Royal Caribbean. 

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While I would agree with you in regards to the potential business impact that the sailings from Baltimore bring to the table ...... I'm not sure if a new port is a Royal Caribbean Issue, as much as it would be a Maryland Issue.

To put something south of the Bay Bridge would mean it would go south of Annapolis --- the roads and infrastructure would have to be created to the port along with the dredging of a channel to the ports location (imagine the environmental impact statements there).

Would I love to have larger vessels sailing out of Charm City, or at least the Baltimore/Washington area?  You betcha, but as a Maryland resident also, I just don't see the state ponying up the $$.

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Just now, coneyraven said:

While I would agree with you in regards to the potential business impact that the sailings from Baltimore bring to the table ...... I'm not sure if a new port is a Royal Caribbean Issue, as much as it would be a Maryland Issue.

To put something south of the Bay Bridge would mean it would go south of Annapolis --- the roads and infrastructure would have to be created to the port along with the dredging of a channel to the ports location (imagine the environmental impact statements there).

Would I love to have larger vessels sailing out of Charm City, or at least the Baltimore/Washington area?  You betcha, but as a Maryland resident also, I just don't see the state ponying up the $$.

I agree that state possibly not willing to pay for the new port. Even with an older ship Baltimore cruise always book up and price in the high side from my experience. People from MD, PA, VA, WV, and a few more states around come here to Baltimore for a cruise. 

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This week is the annual President's Cruise on Harmony.  A guest asked Michael Bayley, Royal's CEO this very question.

Here is a periscope of that Q&A session:

https://embed.periscopemap.live/proxy.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pscp.tv%2Fw%2F1DXGyYDVXeyGM%3Ft%3D9m43s

Skip forward to around 29:30 for the first question and immediately that are two more questions about the Baltimore area.

No cruise line builds an embarkation port.  Most cruise ports are piggy-backed off existing deep water cargo ports.  Even then, the ports are owned and operated by local authorities or governments.  This is much like airports - no airline owns an airport, they lease gates and pay usage fees to use the airport.  Cruise lines don't own cruise ports.  

One thing about Grandeur - it's offers some of the cheapest cruises available.  A new ship would require more expensive cruise fares.  As Michael Bayley asked, would area residents be willing to pay higher cruise fares?  As it is, it's harder to sell out this ship compared to others.  How would a more expensive ship do in this market?

 

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Just now, Susie said:

I agree that state possibly not willing to pay for the new port. Even with an older ship Baltimore cruise always book up and price in the high side from my experience. People from MD, PA, VA, WV, and a few more states around come here to Baltimore for a cruise. 

Exactly ..... the brilliance is the ease of access from the Interstate Highways ---- not only from I-95 (bringing in those from the north and south), but also I-70 and I-68 west ...... then you're looking at the Pittsburgh Market, and Ohio and beyond with an easy drive in.

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Just now, twangster said:

This week is the annual President's Cruise on Harmony.  A guest asked Michael Bayley, Royal's CEO this very question.

Here is a periscope of that Q&A session:

https://embed.periscopemap.live/proxy.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pscp.tv%2Fw%2F1DXGyYDVXeyGM%3Ft%3D9m43s

Skip forward to around 29:30 for the first question and immediately that are two more questions about the Baltimore area.

No cruise line builds an embarkation port.  Most cruise ports are piggy-backed off existing deep water cargo ports.  Even then, the ports are owned and operated by local authorities or governments.  This is much like airports - no airline owns an airport, they lease gates and pay usage fees to use the airport.  Cruise lines don't own cruise ports.  

One thing about Grandeur - it's offers some of the cheapest cruises available.  A new ship would require more expensive cruise fares.  As Michael Bayley asked, would area residents be willing to pay higher cruise fares?  As it is, it's harder to sell out this ship compared to others.  How would a more expensive ship do in this market?

 

We are willing to pay a little more to have some more activity for our son and us but I not sure about other people. That why I booked Anthem for November instead of Grandeur. Not that I not like Grandeur but 5 times is more than charm for me. Just my opinion, Grandeur is an older ship so not many people would want to pay more for it. 

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One challenge shared with the NYC area is the geography involved and destinations reachable from Baltimore.  Grandeur can't offer 7 night cruises unless it just went to Bermuda and then there is nothing else around Bermuda to include a second port of call.  To add diversity and more ports requires 9 or 12 nights because of the geography involved. 

Bayonne has the same challenge but a larger market to draw from including some from the northern areas of Baltimore's market and it's pretty easy to get from Baltimore to NYC.  Like you, many people do that trek further diminishing Baltimore's market.  Despite I-95 traffic (I know it's bad) it's still a relatively painless drive or hop on a train.  

As a cruise bargain seeker Grandeur often appears in my low cost cruise searches but the itineraries are not very appealing unless you commit to 12 nights.  The fly in market for Baltimore based cruises is virtually non-existent.  I did it once because I paid $600 solo for 9 nights - cheap!  At least flying to NYC you get NYC to explore for a day or two.  But if you are going to fly, many people including myself fly to Florida where I can start a cruise already there.  

Royal is going to place their ships where each can maximize revenue.  Right now to move a well performing ship out of one market to place it in Baltimore doesn't make business sense.  I understand that isn't the answer you want to hear but Grandeur has a very dedicated local following and while it isn't a top performer for Royal, it does make money.  Radiance class ships tend to spend summers in Europe or Australia.  The only other option for a year round ship would be another Vision class ship.  That would likely upset as many people as it pleases.  

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8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Back in the day, RC used to sail out of Norfolk, VA and I don't believe there's a bridge blocking that harbor.

I wish RC come back to VA. I sailed with Celebrity cruise a few time from VA. It was a rumor about VA wants a lot $ that why no cruise for a while from VA. I think Carnival is back to VA in 2019 but we don't sail with Carnival. People say Carnival is OK but we had never sailed with them. 

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It's sort of like the California problem.  Not a lot of great destinations within easy reach.  Norfolk doesn't benefit from it's location either and weekend traffic can be a really big drag.  All you save is the time in the Chesapeake.  

Poor air service means its a challenge to rotate crew in and out for any ship based there when crew contracts cycle.

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23 minutes ago, Matt said:

Back in the day, RC used to sail out of Norfolk, VA and I don't believe there's a bridge blocking that harbor.

No, there isn't , but it's the "getting there" that's much more of an issue --- not nearly the market size that the DMV (DC, Maryland, Virginia) offers (and beyond for that matter.

 

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Just now, coneyraven said:

No, there isn't , but it's the "getting there" that's much more of an issue --- not nearly the market size that the DMV (DC, Maryland, Virginia) offers (and beyond for that matter.

 

Yes, it is so true about getting there or get out of there an issue.  I remembered I stuck in the traffic at Norfolk back in the day cruising with Celebrity. 

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1 hour ago, coneyraven said:

No, there isn't , but it's the "getting there" that's much more of an issue --- not nearly the market size that the DMV (DC, Maryland, Virginia) offers (and beyond for that matter.

 

Makes sense. The reason Baltimore is a destination is because of where Baltimore is located. 

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7 minutes ago, Irieman said:

RC could reposition a Radiance Class ship in the future. That would be a slightly larger ship and something different for those repeat customers. No idea if it makes business sense but just throwing out possibilities... that fit under the bridge.  ?

I've often wondered if a Radiance Class ship would fit .... I seem to hear competing answers ..... You are right though, that would open up a capacity increase without having to do any real infrastructure changes.

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4 minutes ago, coneyraven said:

I've often wondered if a Radiance Class ship would fit .... I seem to hear competing answers ..... You are right though, that would open up a capacity increase without having to do any real infrastructure changes.

It does that, but it doesn't address the other concern raised by @Susie, lack of activities for her son that only start showing up on Voyager class. And that class is definitely too big / tall.

Now, if it turns out her son is an aspiring pool shark, then maybe Radiance class could be a good option... ?

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Just now, JLMoran said:

It does that, but it doesn't address the other concern raised by @Susie, lack of activities for her son that only start showing up on Voyager class. And that class is definitely too big / tall.

Now, if it turns out her son is an aspiring pool shark, then maybe Radiance class could be a good option... ?

Or, at the very least, a whiz when it comes to miniature golf. 

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I cruise on Grandeur a lot and I don't find it particularly cheap.  Matter of fact, I think Baltimore is one of the more expensive ports on a per-day basis.  I don't know if it's the port fees for Baltimore (#1 guess) or the port fees for the ports that she visits.  I'm not saying that you can't get a deal from time-to-time, but on a routine basis, I do not think Grandeur is a cheap option, really...other than the fact that I can drive there and don't have to fly...which is why I continue to book her even though I think it's a little pricey.  I always break my cruise pricing down to a per person, per day basis and Grandeur is always one of the most expensive cruise options we have.  A new or different ship would be ok with me !!

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Radiance class fits size wise.  The specs make it look so and Michael Bayley asked someone during the Q&A session on the President's Cruise and the response to him was "Yes, Radiance will fit in Baltimore".  

The problem is that Radiance class doesn't fit the economic model.  Those ships make more money where they are.  Pulling a ship that makes more money elsewhere may look attractive and like a good idea for anyone in the Baltimore area but Royal is a business and leaving more money on the table somewhere else isn't a good business decision.  

You have to know they have studied this and all other U.S. embarkation ports ten times over.  If they could squeak out higher profits in Baltimore over New Orleans,  Tampa or any other port they would make the move in a heartbeat.  Their studies don't support it.  Sorry.   

It's entirely possible that once they sell her, Grandeur won't be replaced.  Maryland may become another California. 

On the flip side, once they add three or more new ships and those end up in FL or TX, it may be that the situation of fleet positioning is very different 3 or 4 years from now.  Like an airline they match the aircraft type and size to the route.  They don't fly 777 aircraft domestically very often because the routes won't support it.   Instead they put a better suited aircraft like an A321 or A220 on a route and fly it full every time.  Better to be full 100% of the time than 75% full 70% of the time.  As a passenger I'd love an all 777 fleet of aircraft.  Doesn't make business sense.  

10 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I cruise on Grandeur a lot and I don't find it particularly cheap.  Matter of fact, I think Baltimore is one of the more expensive ports on a per-day basis.  I don't know if it's the port fees for Baltimore (#1 guess) or the port fees for the ports that she visits.  I'm not saying that you can't get a deal from time-to-time, but on a routine basis, I do not think Grandeur is a cheap option, really...other than the fact that I can drive there and don't have to fly...which is why I continue to book her even though I think it's a little pricey.  I always break my cruise pricing down to a per person, per day basis and Grandeur is always one of the most expensive cruise options we have.  A new or different ship would be ok with me !!

Depends on your cabin type.  With fewer balconies and suites those can go quickly driving up the price.  Interiors on Lady G are routinely the cheapest I see.  Great for climbing the C&A ladder quickly.  Suites are often pricey, supply and demand.  Low suite supply results in higher suite pricing.  Sailing with a handful of suites occupied but having to dump the interior and OV cabins at bargain rates doesn't make her a top performer. 

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17 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I cruise on Grandeur a lot and I don't find it particularly cheap.  Matter of fact, I think Baltimore is one of the more expensive ports on a per-day basis.  I don't know if it's the port fees for Baltimore (#1 guess) or the port fees for the ports that she visits.  I'm not saying that you can't get a deal from time-to-time, but on a routine basis, I do not think Grandeur is a cheap option, really...other than the fact that I can drive there and don't have to fly...which is why I continue to book her even though I think it's a little pricey.  I always break my cruise pricing down to a per person, per day basis and Grandeur is always one of the most expensive cruise options we have.  A new or different ship would be ok with me !!

I feel the same way, I don't think Grandeur cheaper than other ship in my opinion but might be someone else that think it cheaper a better shopper better than me. I had never got any deal on it. If they get rid of Grandeur and not replace it then it is their loss. By the way, 5 cruises on Grandeur had never seen it empty. 

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42 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

It does that, but it doesn't address the other concern raised by @Susie, lack of activities for her son that only start showing up on Voyager class. And that class is definitely too big / tall.

Now, if it turns out her son is an aspiring pool shark, then maybe Radiance class could be a good option... ?

@JLMoranYou are correct. Even they bring Radiance class ship to MD, It doesn't solve the problem for me. They might still get my money to check it out for 1 trip since it newer than Lady G. If they revamp Radiance class or at least put some slide on it that would be nice. 

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Grandeur has 78% of her cabins being interior or OV.  If you must have a balcony or suite than Lady G isn't the ship for you, they only account for 22% of all cabins.  You'll pay dearly for them since there are only 122 balconies and they go fast.  Supply and demand.  

24 minutes ago, Susie said:

 If they get rid of Grandeur and not replace it then it is their loss. By the way, 5 cruises on Grandeur had never seen it empty. 

That's what customer's in California said.  It's not really a loss though because their ships make more money elsewhere.  

It's not empty for two reasons.  It's the right size.  They sell all those interior and OV cabins off cheap to fill it.  Unfortunately since 78% of the ship is interior or OV cabins that doesn't help the revenue numbers for her.  Seriously, 9 nights for $394 per person?  Great way to climb the C&A ladder cheaply.  

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17 minutes ago, twangster said:

Grandeur has 78% of her cabins being interior or OV.  If you must have a balcony or suite than Lady G isn't the ship for you, they only account for 22% of all cabins.  You'll pay dearly for them since there are only 122 balconies and they go fast.  Supply and demand.  

That's what customer's in California said.  It's not really a loss though because their ships make more money elsewhere.  

It's not empty for two reasons.  It's the right size.  They sell all those interior and OV cabins off cheap to fill it.  Unfortunately since 78% of the ship is interior or OV cabins that doesn't help the revenue numbers for her.  Seriously, 9 nights for $394 per person?  Great way to climb the C&A ladder cheaply.  

LOL, I had never seen the price you said and I only can say from what I paid and it is not cheap (some of them is inside). It might be the time I sailed is the demanded time because I have a child so most of the time during school close. Example, Easter, Thanksgiving or other holidays. I guess I just drive to NJ/NY for the cruise only 4 hours I can handle that. I still possible occasional cruise from MD if the price is right.

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We'll be on Lady G in April 2019, in our very first aft-facing junior suite.  We've had a junior suite before, but never had an aft-facing cabin.  I feel like I got a great price for it, compared to other sailings.  We needed a few extra points to reach Diamond so went for the junior suite instead of a regular balcony.  We "lost" three nights in the loyalty program conversion years ago, otherwise we'd have made Diamond with a regular cabin.  We're looking forward to being back on a small ship! 

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7 minutes ago, Susie said:

LOL, I had never seen the price you said and I only can say from what I paid and it is not cheap (some of them is inside). It might be the time I sailed is the demanded time because I have a child so most of the time during school close. Example, Easter, Thanksgiving or other holidays. I guess I just drive to NJ/NY for the cruise only 4 hours I can handle that. I still possible occasional cruise from MD if the price is right.

Yeah, peak season will cost more.

Nov 1 for 9 nights, $384 interior

Nov 22 for 9 nights, $384 interior, $618 OV.

Jan 24 for 9 nights, $441 interior, $515 OV, $876 balcony, $1,256 suites

Mar 28 for 9 nights, $462 interior, $562 OV, $979 balcony, $1,286 suites

Cheaper balcony and suite prices if you have any top tier C&A status to apply. 

March isn't off season but 9 nights is tough for families with school aged children even if that aligns with their spring break.  

Carnival takes a different approach.  They tend to do either 7 night or 14 night cruises which remains more popular in the US.  Their ship has 632 balconies, over 5 times as many balconies and more than 50% of the total cabin count.

I wouldn't knock Carnival too much, those slides on the Pride are pretty awesome.  Never hurts to sample the competition.

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Below is the price of 2 adults and 1 child 6 years old for Lady G inside sailing 4/18 - 4/25 to Bermuda. said $589 per person inside on Rc website. It is a OK price but I don't think it cheap.

$2,913.00
3 Guests
Deck 4 Room 4519 Edit
View Summary
Guest 1
Cruise Fare
$1,164.00
Taxes & Fees
$191.19
Guest 2
Cruise Fare
$1,164.00
Taxes & Fees
$191.19
Guest 3
Cruise Fare
$585.00
Taxes & Fees
$191.19
Discounts & Credits
Flash Sale
$50.00
BOGO NO REF DEP
$1,096.00
Average cost per person
$780.19
TOTAL
$2,340.57
Minimum Deposit
$750.00
 
 
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3 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I cruise on Grandeur a lot and I don't find it particularly cheap.  Matter of fact, I think Baltimore is one of the more expensive ports on a per-day basis.  I don't know if it's the port fees for Baltimore (#1 guess) or the port fees for the ports that she visits.  I'm not saying that you can't get a deal from time-to-time, but on a routine basis, I do not think Grandeur is a cheap option, really...other than the fact that I can drive there and don't have to fly...which is why I continue to book her even though I think it's a little pricey.  I always break my cruise pricing down to a per person, per day basis and Grandeur is always one of the most expensive cruise options we have.  A new or different ship would be ok with me !!

My experience as well.  Agree completely 

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13 hours ago, Hutcherl said:

My experience as well.  Agree completely 

Same, though to @twangster's point, all of our price comparisons were during peak times due to school schedules.  It was generally about a wash in terms of price to fly down to FL and get on another ship with a better (imo) itinerary.  Being a MD resident, I keep looking at Granduer and Anthem though I also worry about crossing the gulf stream as I've heard that can get quite rocky at times and sea-sickness can hit my wife quite hard (and she's hesitant on interior cabins).  Still on the radar though.

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I suspect if you need to make a booking a year or longer in advance you may not see the cheaper rates.  It may be that only people who have flexible plans and can book under 4 months out benefit from the cheap "fill the ship" rates.

Even Michael Bayley made reference to Grandeur being an inexpensive ship to sail.  From the company perspective he's probably referring to the discounted rates to fill the ship, not the rates that those who book well in advance pay.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Even Michael Bayley made reference to Grandeur being an inexpensive ship to sail.  From the company perspective he's probably referring to the discounted rates to fill the ship, not the rates that those who book well in advance pay. 

Or, he's referring to the overhead when it comes to sailing it ...... The ship itself  paid for itself years ago I'm sure, so the overhead involved in sailing it is a lot less than newer ships that still have a lot of debt associated with them.  The break even point is a lot lower on Grandeur (and probably all the Vision Class ships).

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8 minutes ago, twangster said:

I suspect if you need to make a booking a year or longer in advance you may not see the cheaper rates.  It may be that only people who have flexible plans and can book under 4 months out benefit from the cheap "fill the ship" rates.

That could be.  I know some folks that got a next to nothing rate (albeit on the Pride) 3 days before a March sailing.   

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1 hour ago, mbk999 said:

Same, though to @twangster's point, all of our price comparisons were during peak times due to school schedules.  It was generally about a wash in terms of price to fly down to FL and get on another ship with a better (imo) itinerary.  Being a MD resident, I keep looking at Granduer and Anthem though I also worry about crossing the gulf stream as I've heard that can get quite rocky at times and sea-sickness can hit my wife quite hard (and she's hesitant on interior cabins).  Still on the radar though.

The price of my booking always high because of school schedules.  Yes, I got seasick 2 days on my last cruise with Grandeur. I got medicine from the guest service. The med works but it will make me sleepy so the refreshment drink package helps a lot.  I kept drinking coffees or coke the whole day( pumping my caffeine intake). So that is my trick. 

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13 minutes ago, Dalewood said:

Just how tall are the cruise ships? I could not find the info anywhere.

Some are very tall!  I agree though, it's an elusive number because it depends on loading, ship speed and other considerations.  It's known for some ships but not for many others.  Having sailed her from Baltimore the clearance isn't so close to think you are going to hit but it also isn't so great that you might think any ship might get through.

Newer ships have grown in size, in all directions.  Wider, longer, deeper and taller.  The newest and largest cruise ship in the world, Symphony of the Seas, dwarfs older ships and makes them look small.  Guests in loft suites sleep on deck 18 and there is a lot more ship above that that needs to clear a bridge.  Grandeur based in Baltimore has only 11 passenger decks.  By that crude measure alone, Symphony is some 63% higher than Grandeur.  

Radiance class ships were built to Panamax standards so they could transit the original Panama Canal.  That involves many dimensions but also allows them in theory, to make it into Baltimore.  Ships built after that exceed Panamax and can't make it to Baltimore.  

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