DocLC Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 After doing some thinking about all of the changes Royal is making, some that I and others have criticized, I thought it might be nice to put a positive spin on the narrative. I sent this to Matt by email, but thought having the conversation here would be beneficial, too. My first cruise was on Royal in 1994 aboard the Viking Serenade. It was booked last minute, thus heavily discounted, and ran $329 per person for an interior bunk cabin that was approximately 100 square feet. In today's dollars, that same cabin would run $530 (a 61% rate of inflation). The moral of this story is that while there have been cutbacks and while there are more things that Royal now charges for than before, the overall price of cruising has been greatly diminished as a result. And while I am in agreement that dining across all cruise lines has diminished, dining choices have never been better, nor have the fares. Some of the best and most memorable meals I have had have been at cruise line specialty restaurants. Not only do I like the variety, but the break up the experience one receives in the main dining room. In addition, on my upcoming 12 night cruise, I'm looking forward to the opportunity to eat at Rita's Cantina, Izumi, Chops, and Giovanni's Table for variety alone. If the food is good to great, even better. And on our Allure cruise in 2017, the plan is not to even step foot in the dining room and instead try the large variety of restaurants onboard. Thus, we can look at the cruise ship as half full or as half empty--given that are no longer going to be any last minute discounting of cruises. ;) What are your thoughts? Kris markinct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thanks for posting this here. There's no question Royal Caribbean has changed over the last few years. They've been a company that has always positioned them to be a market leader and a company that strives to keep redefining what a cruise experience can be. As with all change, sometimes it can rub some people the wrong way. We fall in love with something and then they change it. I agree the addition of specialty restaurants has been a big plus. Of course it costs more money but we love the variety and choice. markinct and DocLC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I agree the addition of specialty restaurants has been a big plus. Of course it costs more money but we love the variety and choice. But does it cost more money? Given that the general cost of cruising has greatly diminished, does the additional cost of specialty dining exceed the reduction in the cost to cruise? For example, if I were to eat in a specialty restaurant for 4 nights, that would run me about $100 pp assuming a price of $25 per night for specialty dining. Thus, my $329 cruise in 1994 comes to $429, which is still less than the $530 fare when adjusted for inflation. Even if you were to add in a soda package at $6.50 per day, you're still coming out ahead as soda would have only been available in the dining room during meals without an additional charge. Add in the Broadway shows, iFly, the Flow Rider, zip lining on the Oasis class ships, and the like, we're actually making out much better than in the past when these "added fee" options were not available. markinct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Doesnt matter what things cost 20 years ago. It's what is current and what remember from past more recent experiences. My parents telling me what a car cost in 1990 has no bearing on what I think about buying or pricing a car today. BUT, what I paid for my most recent car or what my friends and family paid for thier most recent car when I go car shopping defn is in the back of my mind. The problem people are having with RC now is cost cutting, while increasing cost to us. Can't have it both ways and expect people not to complain. I don't care if they want to charge a little extra for all the extra's, but make it option. I don't care about fancy meals, and flo-riders etc. I am happy to just relax, drink and eat at the buffet everyday. If they make that unaffordable, then I will either swtich cruise lines or go back to AI's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I see your point, but don't have 20 years of cruise experience to judge inflation over. For me its about 5-7 years. This time last year I booked my 7 nt cruise for this Thanksgiving ... 7 nts Freedom of the Seas, $2666 for 3 in a balcony, good price in my mind and I am happy with it. Took a look this year at the same time for a similar cruise ... (cant get an exact match due to ships moving around) .... 6 nt on Freedom, $2620 or 7nt on Oasis $3600. So same money for a day less, lots more money for same days on a "better" (not in my mind) ship in 1 year. Depending on how you do your number crunching something in the realm of a 15-35% increase in one year for a similar cruise, similar time frame, similar lead time. Or .... NCL Escape, same price, same timeframe, same leadtime, but includes UBP at that price so something like $800 "cheaper" than the RCL product. Couple that with decreased service and quality my last few times out and significant drink price increases and NCL gets my business next time out. Currently evaluating Carnival Vista for the one after that ... RCL is certainly entitled to raise prices to whatever they feel is appropriate but if the rest of the market doesn't follow, they just priced themselves out of my vacation plans. (Which stinks because I make diamond this year!) No interest in Specialty Restaurants, no real desire for MTD/DD, just let me on the boat, enjoy and relax without feeling like there is a hand digging into my bank account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 By adjusting for inflation, you are comparing apples to apples and I would argue that it does matter what you paid 20 years ago when comparing to today. If you paid the same price 20 years ago as today when adjusted for inflation, then you'd be seriously disappointed in the changes that have taken place. However, if you consider that the general cost of cruising has declined, then you might be able to accept some of the changes that have taken place. Also, let's be realistic. The cruise business right now is about growing and repeat passengers aren't who they're after. They're after the 80% or so of passengers who have never cruised before. Royal is charging quite a bit of late, which is why we weren't cruising with them for the last 9 years. Often times, Disney ended up running the same as Royal and we even once paid the same on Disney as a booking we had on Carnival but cancelled (albeit a lower category). Ultimately, price and itinerary are king. Fortunately, I found a good fare on the Jewel this last January, on the Brilliance this July out of England, the Liberty out of Galveston next year, and the Allure the year after that. That's not to say that I won't try other lines, We ended up cruising on Holland America for three consecutive cruises largely because they offered 3rd passenger free, which made their cruises significantly less than Royal's and had better itineraries overall. This is also why we cruised Carnival last year. Their newest ship offered a great itinerary and was nearly $1000 less than an equivalent cabin on Royal. My general comment, which holds for all cruise lines, is that cruising is a better value than it has been historically. That's not to say that from year to year it's better, but that it is over the long haul and as a result changes (reductions?) have to be expected. We'll see for the industry is in a few years from now. However, I have to think prices will start coming back down with the number of new builds coming out of the ship yards in the next couple of years. Each cruise line has large ships coming out, except for Disney, and they may have a need to reduce fares to keep the berths filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Doc, fair enough if you have a 20 year cruising history to reflect across, if you only have a 5 year history though the opposite conclusion could be drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I don't know if i agree prices will come back down. With Royal wooing a MASSIVE new market that is hungry for things like the cruise ship market i.e. the new found Chinese middle class, I forsee it getting possibly worse. They have a population the size of most of 'the west' and a middle class increasing to the size of whole western countries entire population size. They are a gigantic market I think Royal wants desperately to tap. My borderline conspiracy theory comes from a few places. Lets start with Royal shipping brand new ships there to be stationed. Don't be surprised if more and more ships coming off the line find their way to China. Also look at general apathy at complaints including that Quantum trip that's laden with closed facilities. Why care if you upset current guests? You're upgrading for your future primary market! Seriously though, looking at it from a sheer numbers standpoint the demand is there and will only increase as Royal spreads into that market and beyond. I'm not sure they can keep up the ship building pace fast enough to keep up with demand. Alas with higher demand will inevitably come higher prices, but this could become industry wide if other lines spread too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 The change in prices is more about them not fluctuating as much as they historically have. Royal Caribbean does not want a cruise on Oasis of the Seas to sell for $800-1000 per person 1 year out and then turn up for $600 per person the month before. They talk about "price integrity", which means they value their product at X and do not want it to drop dramatically. It makes sense for those that book in advance because no one likes booking their cruise a year in advance only to find some people who booked at the last minute got it for half the price. Plus it nets RC better revenues in general. DocLC and AGSLC5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The comments about the growing Chinese market are true. However, keep in mind that all lines are increasing capacity and not all are moving their ships overseas. In addition, look at how long it took to build up the North American cruise market. While China has the numbers and increasing wealth, it will take time to attract new cruisers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The comments about the growing Chinese market are true. However, keep in mind that all lines are increasing capacity and not all are moving their ships overseas. In addition, look at how long it took to build up the North American cruise market. While China has the numbers and increasing wealth, it will take time to attract new cruisers. I suppose the million dollar question will be which market will be more willing to open up their wallet. Of course only time will tell on that. I can also see what are saying Matt, it makes sense. Price stabilization has its up sides, though I forsee gradually higher demand leading to at least somewhat higher fares until the fleet size can catch up to demand. Me and you have a love hate relationship Mr. Supply & Demand :P . In any case, here's to hoping everything stays within reason. Royal has such a perfect blend of color palettes I enjoy and things to do on board that I don't want to be priced out of a cruise with them. So if Royal reads the forums, any criticism from me is out of adoration for the cruise line that got me hooked on cruising. I want what helped WOW so many of us to remain what keeps you in the front of the pack. DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 If Royal is able to stabilize prices and edge fares up, we might see less cost cutting and a better product as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I suppose the million dollar question will be which market will be more willing to open up their wallet. Of course only time will tell on that. I can also see what are saying Matt, it makes sense. Price stabilization has its up sides, though I forsee gradually higher demand leading to at least somewhat higher fares until the fleet size can catch up to demand. Me and you have a love hate relationship Mr. Supply & Demand :P . In any case, here's to hoping everything stays within reason. Royal has such a perfect blend of color palettes I enjoy and things to do on board that I don't want to be priced out of a cruise with them. So if Royal reads the forums, any criticism from me is out of adoration for the cruise line that got me hooked on cruising. I want what helped WOW so many of us to remain what keeps you in the front of the pack. I agree China is a gamble, in the same way Royal Caribbean lost the gamble a few years ago when it put more than half its fleet in Europe.' The positive thing I take from all of this is look no further than the Quantum class as examples of how RC isn't just pumping out "more of the same". They are still looking for newer and better onboard entertainment, technology and experiences. It's in their best interest to produce more exciting things onboard their ships because onboard revenue is where they are really making their profits and the more inclined guests are to stay onboard, the more we will spend onboard. DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 One of my favorite cruises was one where I never stepped foot of the ship except to go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelle Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 great discussion - I think the Chinese/Japanese market is going to do very well for all cruise linesthey are among the most well traveled groups of people across all travel fields/destinations and I think putting newer and better ships there will pay off Great discussion and points Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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