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23 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said:

Looks and sounds like RCI wants their island to be more like Disney's.

CocoCay has to keep up with Castaway Cay as a place to visit.

Actually I found Castaway Cay to be a lot like CocoCay ... very little in the way of flashy, splashy colors and craziness .... much more tropical island getaway.

New CocoCay seems like an attempt to go way out into left field.

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I love the plan, but I'm also partial to the larger ships RC has been offering each year.  

Beach days in the Caribbean are a dime a dozen, but true family-friendly destinations are tough to find.  CocoCay in its current form was a quaint beach day offering, and I know many of us here enjoyed our time there.  But this revamp of CocoCay offers the kind of experiences you would expect to find at Atlantis resort or a water park here in Orlando.  It's a significant investment that I think will excite lots of guests, both current cruisers and those who have never been.

Imagine the possibilities, especially with Mariner and Navigator doing weekend cruises here.  Completely different ball game, and as someone who preferred Labadee primarily because it offered more to do, CocoCay is about to be transformed in a very intriguing way.

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3 minutes ago, Matt said:

Beach days in the Caribbean are a dime a dozen, but true family-friendly destinations are tough to find.  CocoCay in its current form was a quaint beach day offering, and I know many of us here enjoyed our time there.  But this revamp of CocoCay offers the kind of experiences you would expect to find at Atlantis resort or a water park here in Orlando.  It's a significant investment that I think will excite lots of guests, both current cruisers and those who have never been.

Imagine the possibilities, especially with Mariner and Navigator doing weekend cruises here.  Completely different ball game, and as someone who preferred Labadee primarily because it offered more to do, CocoCay is about to be transformed in a very intriguing way.

I agree and I'm very eager to see it completed.  I'll be booking a cruise just to do so once dates become more clear.

I wonder if CocoCay wasn't 'owned' by Royal but by a 3rd party and the same announcement was made, would people be so divided and skeptical?  

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Imagine the possibilities, especially with Mariner and Navigator doing weekend cruises here.  Completely different ball game, and as someone who preferred Labadee primarily because it offered more to do, CocoCay is about to be transformed in a very intriguing way.

It probably depends a lot on what you are looking for on your vacation.

We did CocoCay years ago and then Labadee. Having done CocoCay last year, I have no interest in ever doing Labadee again. So having CocoCay "out-labadeeing" Labadee doesn't sound good to me. Clearly time will tell, it may be completely different when I actually do it.

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17 minutes ago, F1guynz said:

I am just curious, do you have to get off the ship on these Islands or can you just stay on board and enjoy the ship without many people?

I'm pretty sure the ONLY time you have to get off the ship is if it's going down and the Captain has ordered the life boat drill....for real. In all my cruises the only time we have had to get off the ship was on 2 week B2B to "clear us" off the old cruise roster, a quick customs thing, new sea pass card and "enter" us on the new cruise roster. I'm pretty sure there is no requirement to have to get off the ship on any islands/ports. :27_sunglasses:

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On 3/15/2018 at 3:34 PM, twangster said:

I wonder if CocoCay wasn't 'owned' by Royal but by a 3rd party and the same announcement was made, would people be so divided and skeptical?

Great question.  

I think there are two main criticisms about the plan

  1. There will be some aspects of the additions that have an extra cost
  2. It will "ruin" the island (in terms of quaintness)

Yes, there will be an extra cost involved for the water park, cabanas, some dining, etc.  Two ways to look at this: first, better an extra cost than rolling it into the price and people paying for experiences they may not want.  Second, There were already extra costs (Cabanas, bungalows, parasailing, etc).  Not like CocoCay was this complimentary oasis before.

As for "ruining the island", well, CocoCay is not a national park.  There was plenty of noise to start with between guests, DJ music, jet skis, etc. I do recognize there will be much more of a built up nature to it, but my counter argument is look at cruise ships.  There's people now who lament how cruise ships have gotten big, loud, and are like floating cities.  That same argument why building Oasis, Quantum, et al class ships is a good thing, can be applied to CocoCay.

At the end of the day, there will still be a beach to go to that requires no additional cost, and where you can simply relax and enjoy the sun and surf.

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On 15/03/2018 at 12:31 PM, monctonguy said:

Millennials might be an over used stereotype.......I disagree.

 

However, this is EXACTLY the age group/demographic they are appealing to....come on.

 

You cant argue otherwise..they aren't putting in waterslides and splashpads and all these activities for any other age group. Yes of course some older and some younger will use it(myself included) but that is not who or why they are spending all this $$$.

 

Royal is defn trargeting that age group..no matter if you like what they are called or not.

Royal did say a while back that its strategy was to modify their product towards the millennial generation (not over used any more than baby boomer generation, generation X, etc.). I think this aligns to their strategy as do the facilities on the Oasis class ships we see and are going to see.

BUT...

My reaction was something else. RC...are you in the cruise line business or the resort business? Many, many, examples exist of business ventures not being successful because the company(ies) ventured outside their core competency in a effort to increase revenues by trying to be everything to everybody. Is this the same? Some may say yes, others may say no.

I see BIG business risk in this. The size of the capital investment along with the operational costs for a resort (not their core competency!) of this nature...on a small island in the Bahamas...in hurricane alley. What makes this special versus something on the mainland a few hundred miles to the west that will compel people to get on a cruise ship? I've filled out many RC surveys and I don't recall a 'would you like a wave pool at a port of call' being part of it...I have to wonder how they have arrived at the conclusion that this is a good investment beyond someone's personal pet project. Hope they don't turn CocoCay into an eventual rusting piece of junk. I think their capital could be better deployed.

 

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All of South Florida is in hurricane alley.  You could argue the new terminal in Miami is a risk because one hurricane would wipe it out.  Along those lines they better move HQ out of Miami, perhaps Colorado or Wyoming would be better.  A cruise terminal and HQ on an island in Miami, at the bottom of the state that gets the most hurricanes ever - that's just crazy! 

CocoCay as it is today can't handle OA class ships.  The sheer volume of people would overrun the island.  From bars, restrooms, buffet areas, loungers and so on the infrastructure can't take it. They had to do something to prepare it accommodate 6,000+ guests at once. 

Let's face it - CocoCay is pretty, but boring right now.  It appeals to a single type of traveler - beach people.  If you are not a beach person, why would you want to go there today?  Why even get off the ship?  Not everyone is a beach person.  Now it will appeal to beach people who just want to sit on the beach but it will also appeal to people who want more.  Now a much larger cross section of the ship population has a reason to get off the ship.  

On future visits I could have a cheap beach day during one visit then on the next visit I could do the zip line, go up in the balloon or try a water slide.  Like Labadee I will have choices and each visit can be a different experience. 

For Florida residents looking for a long weekend get away there is now a reason to go on a weekend cruise a couple times each year.  Today going to Nassau several times a year?  I think not.  Why go on a cruise just to sit on a beach - Florida has lots of beaches.  Now there is reason to take the family on 3 night cruises a couple times each year.  This is a game changer for the short Florida cruise market and a big differentiator from the competition.  Smaller and older ships that don't have flow riders or zip lines will now be okay as a vessel to take them to CocoCay where there will be activities to make up for the ships that lack them.

This investment not only impacts the short Florida cruise market but it also gives OA class another port to call on which it needed.  The 10 year old east/west OA itinerary was getting pretty boring.   Given the wide variety of ships that cruise from Florida (the cruise capital of the world) this investment impacts nearly all of them.  

I'm totally looking forward to it. 

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This is a smart move by RCCL.  Picture other cruise lines visiting their own private islands nearby.  The tall waterslide alone is going to have the kids from other ships ask their parents if they are going on THAT island. 

This however, does not make sense for their Celebrity portfolio.  Are they purchasing their separate island?

 

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1 hour ago, monctonguy said:

I would say stayed tuned on this....its kinda hard to "uninvest" once you have all these things built and in place if the demand or desire is not there.

My thoughts exactly.  I'm very interested to see if it really is a big enough draw to justify the costs.  Will this actually increase revenue?  Will this attract more cruisers?  I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out after it is open for a few years.  I do see the logic and agree with twangster on this being a great way to keep smaller ships relevant.  Can't argue that someone who might normally not take a short cruise on a smaller ship could be persuaded by a visit here.

I however completely disagree on hurricanes being no more issue here than Miami.  Miami is in much danger to hurricanes, no question, but they are on the mainland.  After the storm passes semi trucks and trains of materials and supplies head in.  Bucket trucks from power companies all over the country converge on the affected area (I have seen the convoys heading down I-75 from here and Michigan after hurricanes).  An island does not have these luxuries.  Cruise lines are still avoiding Tortola 6 months after they were hit.  And I can't wait to see people (most likely unfairly) decry RCCL for diverting ships and supplies from needy islands to "fix their water park".  I'm sure the engineering team is aware of and doing their best to account for hurricanes, but the comparison to cities on the Florida coast is thin at best.

Regardless, I still say the design choices are ugly, that the water slide is a terrible eye sore, and that aside of adding the dock this is not a positive move.  Time will tell whether I'm in the minority or not.  I'm fully prepared to be, if most people love it then I guess RCCL is making the right move.  Like I said, I look forward to seeing the results.

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Twangster, sort of buy your argument .. except they also announced that they are upgrading all the ships to put water slides, etc on those as well ... So from the Florida perspective ... these are not cheap weekend runs to CocoCay anymore ... they are significantly higher priced than the competition because you are getting the new, bigger, upgraded ships ... to take a cruise to the private island that has water slides and pools, etc. just like the upgraded ship you are paying more to be on than the competition.

 

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58 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

Twangster, sort of buy your argument .. except they also announced that they are upgrading all the ships to put water slides, etc on those as well ... So from the Florida perspective ... these are not cheap weekend runs to CocoCay anymore ... they are significantly higher priced than the competition because you are getting the new, bigger, upgraded ships ... to take a cruise to the private island that has water slides and pools, etc. just like the upgraded ship you are paying more to be on than the competition.

 

Vision class isn't getting slides.  Will all Radiance class?   It's more than just a water slide comparison.

The devil is in the details.  Pricing both for cruises and for the new attractions on CocoCay will be critical.  The rumors of drink packages no longer working the same will enter into this too  if they follow NCL down that path.  

Atlantis is way over priced IMO for what you get.  Pricing will be key.

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57 minutes ago, twangster said:

Vision class isn't getting slides.  Will all Radiance class?   It's more than just a water slide comparison.

The devil is in the details.  Pricing both for cruises and for the new attractions on CocoCay will be critical.  The rumors of drink packages no longer working the same will enter into this too  if they follow NCL down that path.  

Atlantis is way over priced IMO for what you get.  Pricing will be key.

Mariner is and Mariner is currently slated for the 3/4 nt for 2018 and 2019 for example ... I haven't checked my facts in a bit but I think Navigator is slated for the Miami 3/4 nt as well after she gets upgraded ... Harmony starts calling on CocoCay once the pier is in place so I assume the rest of the O class siblings are too ...

Not sure where the small ships have all disappeared too but I don't think they are on the 3/4 Bahamas runs anymore.

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24 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

Not sure where the small ships have all disappeared too but I don't think they are on the 3/4 Bahamas runs anymore.

At least some of them (I want to say Brilliance and Serenade, might be others) are doing Southern Caribbean runs from Florida. You also have Vision class ships in the Med and I think northern Europe.

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2 hours ago, twangster said:

Anyone want to predict pricing for the new CocoCay activities?

The $26pp water slide on CocoCay today (all day access):

Grandeur-86.jpg.8481842c1457f92d0772a6927bcebf84.jpg

Aqua park - $22pp per hour

Combo water slide and aqua park $37pp (includes 1 hour of aqua park, all day water slide).

$55 pp All Day Access.  $50 if you book on Cruise Planner.  $25 for the toddler park plus $10 for Adult Spectator Pass.  

On land, water parks are around $30-$50 for an all day pass.

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Did not decide yet what to think about it , first I never been to CocoCay (most of my Caribbean cruises were on Oasis class) 

I Do like water parks  (I was in Atlantis 3 times and planning to come back again) , not sure I liked them part of a cruise , but I can choose if to use them or just stay on the ship/go somewhere else on the Island so I not really mind.

Regarding the price , I Guess there will be two level of price , one for the 7 cruise nights which will be from 60$ and up  , just think about combo of water slide + water park + maybe zip line price ?  also you can compare for the price of getting to Atlantis water park  (although you are getting also to see the aquarium). 

to get there money back I think they will also sell and all inclusive weekend gate away , maybe some bundle of 3 days around food , Alcohol and the water park ...  not envy the cruise stuff (mainly the cleaners) that will have to work on one.

 

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Has anyone noticed that some Labadee excursions have recently increased in price?

Since 2016 the advance cruise planner prices for the zip line and jet ski were $96 each ($110-$115 on board the ship).  I used to get them both on sale for ~$76.  Now the advance cruise price is $105 and $109.  They have introduced a combo of the two for $194 - basically the old regular price for each.

5ab06b790e4ce_Labadeincrease.jpeg.c10fad58a4cc91867f6fc45fd52da8b7.jpeg

New Combo:

5ab06b7e9bdb9_Labadeecombo.jpeg.af13752b6236a58437454e0c5851545d.jpeg

At 2,600' with a price of $105 that is $.04 per foot. 

I think I heard CocoCay zip line will be 1,600'.  At Labadee per foot rates that comes out to $64.

 

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47 minutes ago, twangster said:

Has anyone noticed that some Labadee excursions have recently increased in price?

Since 2016 the advance cruise planner prices for the zip line and jet ski were $96 each ($110-$115 on board the ship).  I used to get them both on sale for ~$76.  Now the advance cruise price is $105 and $109.  They have introduced a combo of the two for $194 - basically the old regular price for each.

5ab06b790e4ce_Labadeincrease.jpeg.c10fad58a4cc91867f6fc45fd52da8b7.jpeg

New Combo:

5ab06b7e9bdb9_Labadeecombo.jpeg.af13752b6236a58437454e0c5851545d.jpeg

At 2,600' with a price of $105 that is $.04 per foot. 

I think I heard CocoCay zip line will be 1,600'.  At Labadee per foot rates that comes out to $64.

 

They will keep increase until the point they wills see decrease in the number of sells ... basic strategy when you have captured customers.

I also book the zip line and the jet skies for 76 (zip line) and I Think more and less the jet , but weather did not allow us to use it so it was cancled 

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Like has been stated here before...Royal is a business and its goal is max profits and money to shareholders.

 

SO increase pricing on anything and everything to the point that breaks customers...thereby maxing profits right up to that point. THEN you can lower prices slightly, make it look like your giving everyone a break but really prices are much higher than before.

 

And most here seem to be ok with that. I once again say time will tell...cruising used to be affordable. But everything has gone up in price on top of how much extra's that you have to pay for now.

 

Just since I started in 2013 I would say pricing is now on average about 50%...I used to cruise multiple times a year...now its down to about once a year.

 

 

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My guess for an all day pass for the water park, balloon, etc is $100pp.  As excited as I am, I have little faith it will be cheap.  I might be the high priced outlier for now, but I won't be surprised if the price makes it to my guesstimate.  Will I still try it?  Yes, at least once, then we'll see if it's worth it.  As@twangster mentioned, pricing will be key.  I live very close to Port Canaveral, so a weekend getaway to Coco Cay via Mariner is a fun idea, but I won't pay through the nose.  We have Volcano Bay an hour away, and that place rocks!

 

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59 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

Like has been stated here before...Royal is a business and its goal is max profits and money to shareholders.

SO increase pricing on anything and everything to the point that breaks customers...thereby maxing profits right up to that point. THEN you can lower prices slightly, make it look like your giving everyone a break but really prices are much higher than before.

And most here seem to be ok with that. I once again say time will tell...cruising used to be affordable. But everything has gone up in price on top of how much extra's that you have to pay for now.

Just since I started in 2013 I would say pricing is now on average about 50%...I used to cruise multiple times a year...now its down to about once a year.

The problem is people keep paying it.  Until sales drop off, prices will increase.  Basic economics, supply and demand pricing. 

That's why Vision class ships are often available at better (same as old) prices.

The problem occurs when a company gets used to higher revenues and can't sustain themselves through a sudden or unexpected drop in demand.  Last year they worked through the $55M loss from the hurricanes and prices did drop when demand dropped but the market came back pretty quickly and so did prices.

I used to try to counter people in other forums who complained about a cruise line.  Now I let them rant.  Maybe they'll dissuade people from booking which means lower prices for me. 

So yeah, avoid CocoCay.  Don't book any cruises that go there.  :3_grin:    

Just now, RestingBirds said:

My guess for an all day pass for the water park, balloon, etc is $100pp.  As excited as I am, I have little faith it will be cheap.

I foresee lots of combo packages.  Zip line and Jet ski, zip line and balloon, Slide and wave pool, etc.  Currently I'm thinking there will be lots of à la carte pricing. 

I'm not even sure we'll see a day pass for the whole place.  Labadee has never used that price model.

My SWAG - zip line introductory price of $49.95, will increase in 2020 upwards to $75.

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Yeah...about a 25% diff in exchange rate which really hurts....but I usually book in USD so easy to compare...and looking back at what I paid in 2013 and 2014 for my cruises with Royal and what the same cruise goes for now...plus increase in grats and drink packages(and having to buy 2 now) plus plus plus..its easily close to an extra 50% difference..then add the 25% exchange rate difference (not Royals fault) and it really hurts...

 

Again, they have to recoup these huge costs for new mega ships and island make overs...someone has to pay for it.

 

 

 

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That's a defn NO. If they were going to keep it the same, a simple yes would suffice.

 

So now along with all the extra costs of Cococay....you can add on the drink costs. 

 

This should surprise no one...doesn't surprise me. Just another "extra" cost/fee to cruising on Royal that wasn't there before they started all these changes/upgrades.

 

I will be very disappointed if they go this way..but sounds like it is the case....pathetic.

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