mworkman Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Okay all you IT guru's, help me understand the process of the migration to a new website. I'll list the steps as I would think it should be done, let me know what I've missed as I'm not an IT person. Step1. Developed new website offline on a server with database. Step 2. Bring in small group for website testing online. Seperate from main server. Step 3. Fix problems. Step 4. Migrate new website online after weekend starting Sunday night 11:00pm until complete. What did I miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, mworkman said: Okay all you IT guru's, help me understand the process of the migration to a new website. I'll list the steps as I would think it should be done, let me know what I've missed as I'm not an IT person. Step1. Developed new website offline on a server with database. Step 2. Bring in small group for website testing online. Seperate from main server. Step 3. Fix problems. Step 4. Migrate new website online after weekend starting Sunday night 11:00pm until complete. What did I miss? You are right with the steps but there are more to it : 1. Decide the migration method (everything on the same time or in groups) if you decide the second method you need to create some bridging application so it can route you to the right application (new and old) and allow the customer cares to find you in the right DB . Also you need to think about catch-up process (if you migrate history data first and just migrate the online data during the rollout window) 2. Non functional testing to the new site - will it be handle the required load , how to operate it , security , security etc ... 3. interface testing - test no issues to connect to the external interfaces (for example credit cards) and no handshake issues. 4. Roll-out testing - test how long all the migration and interfaces pointing process is taking , do try runs, repeat it until your team know what they are doing and you are ngetting it done in the time which the business can agree with. I have the feeling here the RC upgrade process was lacking 5.Train your CSRs and help desk people with the new site so they will be able to handle the support. 6. Bring more help in the first few weeks post migration to handle the extra load on your call centers as many people will call with issues , check that your current facilities (switchboard, PCs, office space) is enough to support the extra load. 7. Rollback method - decide on your rollback method , practice it , decide when is your no rollback point and most important , do not be afraid to take the call to do rollback. 8. BCP - Business continuity plan - decide how the business will continue to work , messages on the website for people what to expect , manual operation during the transition period, catch up if needed , etc (actually point 5,6 is part of it) 9. End user training - create a videos , demo site, FAQ and other materials to explain the end user how to work with the system , whatever you can to reduce the questions and calls. There are much more things that need to be done , but ,well not sure if this is the forum :-) , usually such projects ct can take many month, mainly if the system is very old. Things starting to change now with DEVOPS methodology but still tons of work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 As I was on the phone with CR (Casino Royale) booking a Deluxe Drink Package ($45PP/DAY, not bad IMO) I asked about the website. I find the CR operators are a bit more open about answering my sometimes bizarre questions(compared to the regular RCCL phone line). In this case, I was told web site things are going to start getting better Monday, but not completely fixed. Of course everything we are hearing on RCCL end should be taken with a grain of salt...as they are trying hard to do damage control, I am sure. Like @Matt said above, give it a day or two. Although I myself am heavily addicted to the casual browsing (and purchasing of cruises) on the website, I find logging into my "Cruise Countdown Calendar" app almost as satisfying as seeing it on the official website. That seems to be holding off the withdrawals for now. When my cruise does come, I'll be at the port @10:15am with a smile & valid passport.. even if the website doesn't think I exist. #YOLObookitByCalling *After watching @Matt on Facebook live today, I was excited to hear about the coverage at the upcoming media event Wednesday. PrincipalTinker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mworkman Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Yep, the database is still off as you can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Babe Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Dan G said: "Cruise Countdown Calendar" app HI Dan, is this an app you can get through App store on Apple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mworkman Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boston Babe said: HI Dan, is this an app you can get through App store on Apple? I use vacation countdown app from App Store. Boston Babe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 I have a friend that did database work for them a few years ago. Its a beast. I'm sure they modeled all they could off line but at some point you need to need to migrate production and sometimes to make significant leaps forward you need to take a hit. Migrating a database that contains every record for hundreds of thousands of guests and for all things on all ships is no small task and it's constantly changing. I'm imagining they are finally migrating off that old, open source database platform and moving to something that can scale. While these few days are ugly, it will all be worth it in the end and going forward that old baggage won't be holding them back, preventing them from doing all the awesome things they want to do. The tech they want to implement can't be done with the old backend systems. Just wait. Be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, twangster said: I have a friend that did database work for them a few years ago. Its a beast. I'm sure they modeled all they could off line but at some point you need to need to migrate production and sometimes to make significant leaps forward you need to take a hit. Migrating a database that contains every record for hundreds of thousands of guests and for all things on all ships is no small task and it's constantly changing. I'm imagining they are finally migrating off that old, open source database platform and moving to something that can scale. While these few days are ugly, it will all be worth it in the end and going forward that old baggage won't be holding them back, preventing them from doing all the awesome things they want to do. The tech they want to implement can't be done with the old backend systems. Just wait. Be patient. I agree with you , we do not know the complexity of the data base and the old system , not how many records and what is the size , I Will give them that . Yes , it might take 4,5 days , and since it is being done rarely it can also be acceptable , but they could at least send people an email before explaining the system will be under upgrade for the next few days so if anyone want to reserve something he better do it before. Well even if they planned that it will be only for one day and something happened and now it is 5 days then they could put some message on the site or even send an email . Lets hope that the issue will be gone soon and we can all enjoy from a new wonderful site that will help us to enjoy the to cruise on our favorite cruise line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 hours ago, twangster said: I have a friend that did database work for them a few years ago. Its a beast. I'm sure they modeled all they could off line but at some point you need to need to migrate production and sometimes to make significant leaps forward you need to take a hit. Migrating a database that contains every record for hundreds of thousands of guests and for all things on all ships is no small task and it's constantly changing. I'm imagining they are finally migrating off that old, open source database platform and moving to something that can scale. While these few days are ugly, it will all be worth it in the end and going forward that old baggage won't be holding them back, preventing them from doing all the awesome things they want to do. The tech they want to implement can't be done with the old backend systems. Just wait. Be patient. I totally can allow for the complexity of migrating a database to a new architecture, especially if they were previously using an open-source system and now migrating to a proprietary / commercial / enterprise system. BUT... As @Traveler noted in his comment, part of any big migration like that also should include having parallel systems in place in production, or even entire redundant data centers, so you can migrate data to the new system / center while the old one stays online. Don't bring the new one online until everything is migrated and tested; if it takes longer than expected, have a process in place to do nightly transfers of new data from the old system to the new so data stays in sync. But above all else, keep the main system online and don't cut over until it's ready for cut over. For a big job like this, send out an announcement and maybe even plan for full outages that last a day or two. I realize this isn't a Wall Street financial system that requires five-nines uptime and has service level agreements to uphold. But it's still a system that thousands of travelers need reliable access to every single day when their trip is coming up. This rollout is nothing short of a gigantic bungle on Royal's part, and whoever was responsible for planning it and executing it needs to be disciplined at a minimum, possibly fired for the clear lack of process on display here. PrincipalTinker, mworkman, Traveler and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjac Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Well said, Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mworkman Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 Question of the day...When will we know that the New Official Website is completed? Has anyone seen what the finished product is supposed to look like? For all we know it could be completed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 Hopefully Matt will get an update at Wed’s media event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 I haven't even visited the homepage since I heard about the seamless website.....as I knew It would lead to frustration and aggravation! I am glad I am not cruising soon or trying to book something soon with them, as then I would be "royally" pissed...lol Been a week now or longer since is started? Wilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjac Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, mworkman said: Question of the day...When will we know that the New Official Website is completed? Has anyone seen what the finished product is supposed to look like? For all we know it could be completed When will we know? That's easy, you'll know when you can log in. Has anyone seen? Yes and no. It could be completed......maybe, maybe not. Hope my insightful comments have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mworkman Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 i have been able to log in since the switched to the new page...What's your hold up rjac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toodle68 Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 I have migrated lots of DB's and hundreds of systems/websites.. I have never, never, had production down for several days or removed functionality for a week. Fork the data, build an entire new infrastructure, write and test migration programs.. there is a solution to everything that, no matter how old and complex, does not result in loss of production for days. I can log in now, but all I can do is make a blind payment or look at my cabin details. The UI sucks too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mworkman Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 I just asked RCI on facebook if they had a projected end date for the new website, a week , two weeks? The response that i was given was....None at this time... It would be nice if the IT department would have published a completion timeframe for all its customers. What was i thinking? PrincipalTinker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jce2 Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, toodle68 said: I have migrated lots of DB's and hundreds of systems/websites.. I have never, never, had production down for several days or removed functionality for a week. Fork the data, build an entire new infrastructure, write and test migration programs.. there is a solution to everything that, no matter how old and complex, does not result in loss of production for days. I can log in now, but all I can do is make a blind payment or look at my cabin details. The UI sucks too. Agree with Toodle68! I have migrated DBs at least as complicated as RC's (like NASA's space object DB) and you never simply take down the old. DB complexity is irrelevant to process & risk mitigation. In my line of business folks get fired for snafus like this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose City Cruiser Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, jce2 said: Agree with Toodle68! I have migrated DBs at least as complicated as RC's (like NASA's space object DB) and you never simply take down the old. DB complexity is irrelevant to process & risk mitigation. In my line of business folks get fired for snafus like this! Trim the bottom 5% every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen2 Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 Did notice changes - including the fact the most links DO NOT WORK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 I finally figured out what is going on its not really about IT issues but more of a marketing trick . Here is what I think might happened : The CEO got some survey about how people do not like the RC website and keep complaining about it over the social media (mainly in some message boards) He ask the CIO what can be done to improve it , which he replays (very enthusiastic) that they create a new project with new site and a new DB throwing in the air buzzwords like "Digital, Micro services, DeBOPS , clouds, big data etc ...". The only thing, this project will cost more than 700 M $ (which we all know will be at least twice) and I will need 500% increase in the IT team + some new executives IT manager to run the project The CFO that heard the required budget automatically refused and remind the CEO about the stakeholders + the board that will not like it , not to forget the yearly E level bonuses which will be under risk as they are tied to the EBIT. The CEO, who remembered suddenly the new cars he promised to buy to his kids (I wanted to say the new boat he wanted to buy for himself but , well not sure how much a cruise line CEO wants to have a boat as his hobby) understand that a new project is not an option and ask what else can be done. Then the marketing come with a wonderful idea , create a mock up site that will imitate a new site , this site will stay for two three weeks. The site will be so terrible that RC customers will beg them to bring back the old site and no one will dare complain anymore about the current site. And all of that without spending too much money , I think its genius mworkman, JLMoran, Suzanne and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 22 hours ago, toodle68 said: I have migrated lots of DB's and hundreds of systems/websites.. I have never, never, had production down for several days or removed functionality for a week. Fork the data, build an entire new infrastructure, write and test migration programs.. there is a solution to everything that, no matter how old and complex, does not result in loss of production for days. I have to agree. For the life of me I do not know why they haven't rolled back (days ago) or fixed it by now. I'm not sure I'm more surprised the system was deployed broken like this, or that management has allowed it to languish in its current state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjac Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 It's still broken and no e-mails from Royal to us explaining the situation. The only e-mails I have received from Royal since last week has to do with discounts & sales. That's nice, but, what good is that WHEN YOU CAN'T GET ON LINE! PrincipalTinker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobroo Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 I am left to believe that Royal is leaving it up to the passengers themselves (and likely via a phone call to customer service) to repair all the broken C & A accounts. I think it's unreasonable for me to have to tell Royal my C & A number. I don't think I should have to tell them the reservation ID's for the cruises I've put deposits down on but are missing in my C & A account. I most certainly should not have to research every cruise I have taken and paid-in-full for so they appear in my (now empty) cruise history--that includes the one last week. Does anyone else feel this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Self-service is the ultimate in cost cutting, that's why just about every organization is pushing it as much as they can. The more the customer can do for themselves the less the company has to pay to do .... in all honesty I doubt it was truly a deliberate decision on Royal's side but I wouldn't be surprised if it works out that way. bobroo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 I finally got in today and it's mostly all there and appears functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptTJ Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 I can log in but it wants me to re enter the reservation number for the cruise planner and cruise documents....maybe this is the norm now? Plus I don’t think it gives you much information on the log in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABFrenchie Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 I give up on the new website. My next cruise is over a year away, maybe if I check back in 2019 the website will work for me. I've had to change my password every time I login. When I select the cruise planner, I'm rerouted to login again. So I do, and I select the cruise planner, and I'm rerouted to log in again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Very glad that I already printed out my Set Sail pass and luggage tags when they first became available. Now I can't log in on either Chrome or Safari, as it hangs after signing in. Firefox is managing to log in, but accessing the cruise planner still takes me to the screen where I have to enter my reservation info; after doing that, trying to go to the Cruise Countdown area (where I could re-access my online documents if needed) fails with a message, "The reservation is currently being modified", and gives me the form to enter the reservation number and sail date again. Even better -- the old login URL that used to work now redirects to the new login page, so I can't fall back on that. Really great job there, Royal IT. Ab-so-freaking-LUTE-LY great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptTJ Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, JLMoran said: Very glad that I already printed out my Set Sail pass and luggage tags when they first became available. Now I can't log in on either Chrome or Safari, as it hangs after signing in. Firefox is managing to log in, but accessing the cruise planner still takes me to the screen where I have to enter my reservation info; after doing that, trying to go to the Cruise Countdown area (where I could re-access my online documents if needed) fails with a message, "The reservation is currently being modified", and gives me the form to enter the reservation number and sail date again. Even better -- the old login URL that used to work now redirects to the new login page, so I can't fall back on that. Really great job there, Royal IT. Ab-so-freaking-LUTE-LY great job. Try this link, still works for me, I just logged in https://secure.royalcaribbean.co.uk/mycruises/login.do?default=false&cS=MHDR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Regarding why they are not rolling back , it might be they already pass this point , meaning the new DB already have new customer records and they did not plan how to migrate it back to the old DB. But I start to think something else happened here , I think they not really planned to start and use the new site but some disaster happened to the the old DB and records were deleted , moving to the new DB was the work around. All the required adding information we are being ask to enter leading me there. Anyway this just my theori , hope I am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptTJ Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I still think they could roll back if that wanted. If I log in on the U.K. website I’m greeted with the old website and can access most stuff before being redirected back to the US site and having to log into the new website. I really think it’s just a lapse of planning, they are trying to merge the different cruise lines into one website, (clelberity,princess etc) and I just think there were some comparability issues. If they rolled back now, it would just destroy their progress. I do think the last week has been damage control. Now you can access the cruise planner and cruise documentation, just requires you to enter all your information again. A few days ago you couldn’t even log in! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Hell they probably haven't even noticed theres a problem yet ... remember they are doing internal testing at corporate this week so they are probably all too focused on that to notice the actual website having issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 got an email few hours ago that my cruise document is ready and a link to download it. The link brings me to the new login page and from there I do no have any clue how to get to it , any idea ? (I tried also to do online check in but got error message) Wilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Traveler said: got an email few hours ago that my cruise document is ready and a link to download it. The link brings me to the new login page and from there I do no have any clue how to get to it , any idea ? (I tried also to do online check in but got error message) Can you attach a screen shot? I just go to the main Royal website, select "Already Booked" then "Online Check-In". From this page I enter my name, reservation number, ship and sail date. No issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, twangster said: Can you attach a screen shot? I just go to the main Royal website, select "Already Booked" then "Online Check-In". From this page I enter my name, reservation number, ship and sail date. No issues. Thanks, I tried it again now and it went OK , Still do not find how to go to my cruise documents but I guess , online check in will be enough. I wanted to look on it as I am on guaranty room and when I got the email which indicate mu documents are ready I thought they might assign me the room already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shari Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 21 hours ago, CaptTJ said: Try this link, still works for me, I just logged in https://secure.royalcaribbean.co.uk/mycruises/login.do?default=false&cS=MHDR Thank you for the UK link. It has the old website/design and I can log in with my old username/password with everything there like before. I guess they only want the US/Canada to feel the pain of beta testing their "blanket blank" new website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, Traveler said: Thanks, I tried it again now and it went OK , Still do not find how to go to my cruise documents but I guess , online check in will be enough. I wanted to look on it as I am on guaranty room and when I got the email which indicate mu documents are ready I thought they might assign me the room already As soon as I log in above, I get this screen: Links for Set Sail passes and Luggage tags are right there - the PRINT buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny260 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 39 minutes ago, twangster said: Links for Set Sail passes and Luggage tags are right there - the PRINT buttons. Notice all of the green check marks in the front boxes, all of those have to be filled in for all guest before the print buttons will come up. I would help test for you but I'm to far out to fill in my documentation yet. The Set Sail Pass and the luggage tags are all you want, the other cruise document is the cruise book. You can always call and ask if your room is assigned yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincipalTinker Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Traveler said: got an email few hours ago that my cruise document is ready and a link to download it. The link brings me to the new login page and from there I do no have any clue how to get to it , any idea ? (I tried also to do online check in but got error message) When is your cruise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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