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Ok guys, allow me to rant a bit

This week I booked a 7 night JS on Liberty for Sept 2019.  With all the blinking lights of the WOW Sale and its $300 OBC, I jumped on it.  Long story short, I looked at the confirmation details and low & behold, there it is,,, a $100 OBC.  My first thought was what in the ever loving,,,,,,   

So, heres the explanation of this completely convoluted policy.  My $100 C&A discount voids that WOW offer, as they are not combinable.  So instead of getting the $300 OBC, I get the $100 C&A discount and a $100 OBC.  My reward for being loyal to Royal, Emerald level C&A is a net loss of $100.  Someone who has never cruised Royal before would've gotten the same fare discount, NOT gotten the C&A discount, but would've gotten $300 OBC.  I understand the part about not being combinable.  What I don't understand is why they automatically apply the C&A discount if it causes this issue.  Surely someone somewhere has pointed this out to Bookings/Customer Relations ??  How can I not be offered the chance to decline the C&A discount and take the $300 ???  I called the next morning and was told "its too late, the WOW sale is over"  Nice huh ?  Very disappointed about this

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14 hours ago, Michael Vitale said:

Ok guys, allow me to rant a bit

This week I booked a 7 night JS on Liberty for Sept 2019.  With all the blinking lights of the WOW Sale and its $300 OBC, I jumped on it.  Long story short, I looked at the confirmation details and low & behold, there it is,,, a $100 OBC.  My first thought was what in the ever loving,,,,,,   

So, heres the explanation of this completely convoluted policy.  My $100 C&A discount voids that WOW offer, as they are not combinable.  So instead of getting the $300 OBC, I get the $100 C&A discount and a $100 OBC.  My reward for being loyal to Royal, Emerald level C&A is a net loss of $100.  Someone who has never cruised Royal before would've gotten the same fare discount, NOT gotten the C&A discount, but would've gotten $300 OBC.  I understand the part about not being combinable.  What I don't understand is why they automatically apply the C&A discount if it causes this issue.  Surely someone somewhere has pointed this out to Bookings/Customer Relations ??  How can I not be offered the chance to decline the C&A discount and take the $300 ???  I called the next morning and was told "its too late, the WOW sale is over"  Nice huh ?  Very disappointed about this

This is where the benefit of using a Travel Agent comes into play.  A good agent will look at both prices, with and without your C&A discount, and either present them both for you to choose or just book you at the best price.  I'm a big do-it-yourselfer too, but since it costs me nothing to use a TA, I'm happy to let them handle all that for me.  They are the experts!  

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17 hours ago, Michael Vitale said:

Ok guys, allow me to rant a bit

 My reward for being loyal to Royal, Emerald level C&A is a net loss of $100.  

This is exactly my experience when booking the Symphony TA.  

On this occasion NextCruise was involved to further complicate matters.  The loss of OBC when using C&A balcony discount plus booking 6+ months away left me rather displeased.  They actually told me that $300 OBC is really more than $400 OBC.  Royal math is very different than the math most of us learned in school.

That's when I learned you can't use the C&A discount with most current promos and it impacts how much NextCruise OBC you get as well.  It's very misleading when words like "Combinable with most promotions" really means "few if any" and "Combinable with Crown & Anchor exclusive savings" isn't either.

Going to the NextCruise desk is right up there with doing taxes.  Like a cheating girlfriend I go back each cruise expecting different results only to be let down once again.  I take my laptop with me now to the NextCruise desk because you can't believe anything they tell you.

There used to be more meat in cruise fares so C&A and Next discounts used conventional math.  To be competitive they've cut some of that meat out of cruise fares leaving no room for loyalty discounts requiring the use of Royal math.  

It comes down this - what you get is what you get.  You will never be able to figure out Royal math.  Run the numbers with C&A discounts and without.  Which ever is cheaper is cheaper.  Don't take offers like NextCruise or C&A savings at face value.  

NextLies.jpeg

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Twang, it seems obvious to me they're doing all these big colorful promo ads to attract eyeballs from FIRST TIME cruisers.  Loyal C&A cruisers are reliable revenue for them.  These offers are designed to make people who've never cruised jump.  They really need to do a better job recognizing the difference in their markets, between C&A and first timers 

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2 hours ago, Michael Vitale said:

Twang, it seems obvious to me they're doing all these big colorful promo ads to attract eyeballs from FIRST TIME cruisers.  Loyal C&A cruisers are reliable revenue for them.  These offers are designed to make people who've never cruised jump.  They really need to do a better job recognizing the difference in their markets, between C&A and first timers 

Have you seen how much Diamonds drink each night at happy hour?  :9_innocent:  No wonder they don't want us on board.  Newbies who buy drinks as they go, or buy drinks packages and Voom onboard at full price are much more profitable.  Experienced cruisers who know to avoid costly mistakes are less profitable.

In the end I got $100 more in OBC than Joe Newbie cruise guy.  What are you going to do?  In some cases the C&A balcony discount does work.  In some cases NextCruise discounts do work.  Not always at their advertised face value, but it happens.  You've got to work to find the cruise where they work as advertised. 

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4 minutes ago, twangster said:

Have you seen how much Diamonds drink each night at happy hour?  :9_innocent:  No wonder they don't us on board.  Newbies who buy drinks as they go, or buy drinks packages and Voom onboard at full price are much more profitable.  Experienced cruisers who know to avoid costly mistakes are less profitable.

In the end I got $100 more in OBC than Joe Newbie cruise guy.  What are you going to do?  In some cases the C&A balcony discount does work.  In some cases NextCruise discounts do work.  Not always at their advertised face value, but it happens.  You've got to work to find the cruise where they work as advertised. 

So @twangster just out of curiosity, how did it play out for you?  I might be making a visit to Next Cruise.  And for the record, @Michael Vitale, terrible you were not presented with both options, I have learned from the past the C&A discounts rarely work out better in my favour.

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19 hours ago, Michael Vitale said:

Ok guys, allow me to rant a bit

This week I booked a 7 night JS on Liberty for Sept 2019.  With all the blinking lights of the WOW Sale and its $300 OBC, I jumped on it.  Long story short, I looked at the confirmation details and low & behold, there it is,,, a $100 OBC.  My first thought was what in the ever loving,,,,,,   

So, heres the explanation of this completely convoluted policy.  My $100 C&A discount voids that WOW offer, as they are not combinable.  So instead of getting the $300 OBC, I get the $100 C&A discount and a $100 OBC.  My reward for being loyal to Royal, Emerald level C&A is a net loss of $100.  Someone who has never cruised Royal before would've gotten the same fare discount, NOT gotten the C&A discount, but would've gotten $300 OBC.  I understand the part about not being combinable.  What I don't understand is why they automatically apply the C&A discount if it causes this issue.  Surely someone somewhere has pointed this out to Bookings/Customer Relations ??  How can I not be offered the chance to decline the C&A discount and take the $300 ???  I called the next morning and was told "its too late, the WOW sale is over"  Nice huh ?  Very disappointed about this

this happened to me with my cyber monday sale, but it was still cheaper to take the cyber monday sale with the $400 OBC
 

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1 minute ago, Sabrinaklai said:

So @twangster just out of curiosity, how did it play out for you?  I might be making a visit to Next Cruise.  And for the record, @Michael Vitale, terrible you were not presented with both options, I have learned from the past the C&A discounts rarely work out better in my favour.

So when I 1st visited Next they told me I'd get $400 in OBC.  The standard website offer at the moment was $200 OBC (I still have the screen shot).  Booking a balcony on a 12 night cruise is supposed to get you $200 in OBC.  Booking 6+ months out is supposed to get you $100 in OBC.  Great, let's do this, $400 OBC is pretty good.  Paper comes out and it's $300 in OBC. 

What happened to $400? 

"We gave you a Diamond discount. " 

But I'm Emerald. 

"We took $100 off the cruise fare". 

Uh, no you didn't, the paper works matches the fare online exactly. 

"With the C&A Emerald discount and NextCruise OBC you got more than $400". 

My fare matches the website and my OBC is $300. 

"Yes, that's more the $400".   

How is that more than $400?

"Because of we gave you a Diamond discount knowing you'll be Diamond soon".

What Diamond discount?

"The fare is cheaper for Diamonds"

No, the fare is the same as anyone on the internet can book as a nobody.

"You got more than $400".

But I didn't.

"Let me email Miami and ask them, come back tomorrow"

Tomorrow

Have you heard from Miami?

"Yes, you can't combine discounts, it is priced properly, no more OBC is available" 

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3 minutes ago, twangster said:

So when I 1st visited Next they told me I'd get $400 in OBC.  The standard website offer at the moment was $200 OBC (I still have the screen shot).  Booking a balcony on a 12 night cruise is supposed to get you $200 in OBC.  Booking 6+ months out is supposed to get you $100 in OBC.  Great, let's do this, $400 OBC is pretty good.  Paper comes out and it's $300 in OBC. 

What happened to $400? 

"We gave you a Diamond discount. " 

But I'm Emerald. 

"We took $100 off the cruise fare". 

Uh, no you didn't, the paper works matches the fare online exactly. 

"With the C&A Emerald discount and NextCruise OBC you got more than $400". 

My fare matches the website and my OBC is $300. 

"Yes, that's more the $400".   

How is that more than $400?

"Because of we gave you a Diamond discount knowing you'll be Diamond soon".

What Diamond discount?

"The fare is cheaper for Diamonds"

No, the fare is the same as anyone on the internet can book as a nobody.

"You got more than $400".

But I didn't.

"Let me email Miami and ask them, come back tomorrow"

Tomorrow

Have you heard from Miami?

"Yes, you can't combine discounts, it is priced properly, no more OBC is available" 

So in the end did you just ask them to forget the "Diamond Discount" and give you the $400 OBC?  And what happened to the extra $100 for booking early?

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1 minute ago, Sabrinaklai said:

So in the end did you just ask them to forget the "Diamond Discount" and give you the $400 OBC?  And what happened to the extra $100 for booking early?

Bottom line - Joe Nobody booking on the internet with OBC and all else factored in would be $100 more than my deal with all OBC factored in as an Emerald, booking a balcony on a 12 night sailing more than six months out.  Call it Next OBC, call it 6+ month OBC, call it C&A savings, call it a shell game.  At the end of the day I did exactly $100 better than Joe Nobody.

This is why I take my laptop with me and run my own pricing as Next runs theirs.  "Your discounts are $300"  (but with a higher non-promo base fare). 

You can not take the rate you see on line and expect the discounts to come off from that.  The discounts come off an unpublished fare that you have no idea what it is.  Royal math.

It's like drink packages.  One sale it's BOGO 50%.  The next sale is 25% off.  The next sale is 30% off.  Yet when you add it to the cart it's still same amount each time because you don't know what the base amount they are starting from.  It fluctuates which is the founding logic of Royal math.

Just like 30% off second guest.  Great, my total should have gone down, but no, base fare for guest #1 went up by the same amount as the 30% off discount for guest #2.  Royal math.  

They told me to come back once the system was showing me as Diamond to have it re-priced.  I did.  No change.  Same price.  Royal math.

When I booked Liberty as an interior 7 night cruise Next OBC should be $50.  Not with the current promo.  I got Next OBC of $0.  So much for the advertisements on the TV system , in cruise documentation, during the NextCruise presentation.  Royal math.

All you can do is listen to their total all in price and compare that to direct or through an agency.  That is the only way to know what your true loyalty discount really is.

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Twang, you nailed it on the head, its a shell game.  Its like the grocery chain Albertson's does with their meat sales.  They advertise buy 1 get 3 free.  Wow right ?  Buy 1 get 3 free, who doesn't like the sound of that ???  Until you get there and realize that they've adjusted the pricing to show $16.95 lb !!!!!  Pork chop package #1 is now like $22.  But you get 3 "free"   Its all just a game.  

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12 minutes ago, Michael Vitale said:

Twang, you nailed it on the head, its a shell game.  Its like the grocery chain Albertson's does with their meat sales.  They advertise buy 1 get 3 free.  Wow right ?  Buy 1 get 3 free, who doesn't like the sound of that ???  Until you get there and realize that they've adjusted the pricing to show $16.95 lb !!!!!  Pork chop package #1 is now like $22.  But you get 3 "free"   Its all just a game.  

Yep.  I booked a 2019 NZ cruise in January while on Anthem.  I visited Next but this time knew to watch for the shell game.  Sure enough my TA was cheaper, with better perks and no deposit through my TA.  Plus it is fully refundable where Next was NRD.  Walked away from the Next desk and booked it through my TA.  

NextCruise must hate it when people have Voom.   

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6 hours ago, twangster said:

You can not take the rate you see on line and expect the discounts to come off from that.  The discounts come off an unpublished fare that you have no idea what it is.  Royal math.

Geez, that's worse than trying to buy a car and figure out if you should go for dealer invoice; or factor in hidden kickbacks they get; or just throw your hands in the air, sacrifice a couple of chickens under a full moon, and say "What'll you give me?"

:40_rage:

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The cruise I booked for their 40% off sale is cheaper than their current promotion of 45% off even though there are heaps of cabins left.

To be fair they always state “up to” but I always immediately assume my cruise will have the maximum discount applied?

I don’t get to see my C&A discount on the NZ website but it is now with IT to investigate.

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Unfortunately this has been going on for years now, I have had it happen multiple times where the Joe Public rate is better than the C&A rates available to frequent cruisers and yes the system is set to automatically give you the C&A rate instead of the better public rate if you are logged in to your account.

For a long time I was tracking pricing on multiple cruises and doing the "login" check prices for multiple cabin types on multiple cruises, then log out and do it all over again.

After a long time of never really seeing any discounts popup I gave up and figured my time is worth more than the $ I was saving. Royal's pricing is insanity for experienced cruisers but great for those new to the scene and just continues to affirm to me that they would love to sail with ships of 100% new cruisers all the time and never see a repeat customer ever.

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KInda defeats the purpose of being loyal eh?......

 

It shouldn't be that complicated nor such a game to play. they should just say its a 5% or 10% discount on top of whatever the best deal is at the time.

 

It's amazing what BS we put up with when it comes to this...I know for sure I wouldn't put up with this with any other company and would call them on their BS "sales" and "promos" and '"loyalty" club etc or just I would stop using them.

 

But hey....we are all Loyal to Royal I guess..lol

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JLMoran said:

So the moral of the story is... stay with a cruise line until I hit the first level with “discounts”, and then jump ship to the next cruise line? ?

The thing is I enjoy the onboard experience with Royal.  Food, entertainment, activities, ship design, crew, etc.  That is why many of us are loyal.

The misleading marketing flies in the face of the onboard experience.  At least for me I stick with Royal because of the onboard experience.  It certainly isn't the website or marketing.

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I was just discussing this with my wife the other day around auto insurance, had my car and home with the same agent and insurance company for 38 years, they raise the price every renewal period and I have to call and complain about, eventually we come to a resolution.

My take on it is that I shouldn't have to call, they should take care of me automatically, lol..., don't they know I'm a Diamond level C&A member.

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

The thing is I enjoy the onboard experience with Royal.  Food, entertainment, activities, ship design, crew, etc.  That is why many of us are loyal.

The misleading marketing flies in the face of the onboard experience.  At least for me I stick with Royal because of the onboard experience.  It certainly isn't the website or marketing.

Seems the complaint here isn't about the marketing, it's about how the C&A members appear to be getting treated "worse" than brand-new cruisers, where the expectation is that as loyal and long-term customers the C&A people should at a minimum not be getting charged a worse rate than a brand-new customer.

I totally see your point, and my comment above was 100% tongue in cheek, but I also see the point of the other posters here that they shouldn't have to go through hoops when trying to book their cruises just to get a deal that's as good as someone who's never cruised with the line before.

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So now that they have won this "Royal Caribbean Cruises named one of the 2018 World's Most Ethical Companies for third year in a row" we all must be crazy to voice our opinion on some of the pricing hog wash and how they treat loyal customers.  Oh how I dare to question how some of these companies get these distinctions.  

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5 hours ago, JLMoran said:

So the moral of the story is... stay with a cruise line until I hit the first level with “discounts”, and then jump ship to the next cruise line? ?

I wouldn't say its the moral of the story but what I have found over the last couple of years is that they are so much more the same than they are different that booking the best "deal" is working out a whole lot better than being exclusive to a line. Royal Diamond definitely does more for me than anyone else at the moment, but when you throw out all the perks that are either worthless (balcony discount, since the general public rate is generally better) or close to it (onboard tuxedo rental discount) there isn't as much benefit vs. a few hundred $ of price for choosing Royal over the competition.

I still like Royal and would probably choose Royal over competitors all else being equal ... but no longer "loyal to royal"

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2 hours ago, RBRSKI said:

Just another influenced award I suspect.  Money can buy amazing things.

4 hours ago, JLMoran said:

Seems the complaint here isn't about the marketing...

Oh no, my complaint is about marketing.  If you promote a C&A benefit "Exclusive Savings!" that in reality is nothing, that is misleading marketing.  When you advertise a sale "Second guest now 30% off!" but you raise the rates so that 30% off means the same price as before, that is misleading marketing.  If you promise NextCruise discounts showing $300+ in savings for booking onboard but neglect to mention it is calculated from a different non-promo and higher total price compared to what the general public can purchase, that is misleading marketing.   When you advertise something that isn't effectively real, that is misleading marketing.

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48 minutes ago, twangster said:

Just another influenced award I suspect.  Money can buy amazing things.

Oh no, my complaint is about marketing.  If you promote a C&A benefit "Exclusive Savings!" that in reality is nothing, that is misleading marketing.  When you advertise a sale "Second guest now 30% off!" but you raise the rates so that 30% off means the same price as before, that is misleading marketing.  If you promise NextCruise discounts showing $300+ in savings for booking onboard but neglect to mention it is calculated from a different non-promo and higher total price compared to what the general public can purchase, that is misleading marketing.   When you advertise something that isn't effectively real, that is misleading marketing.

Nicely Said!  I agree 100%

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On 2/18/2018 at 3:24 PM, Sabrinaklai said:

@Iluv4n6 are you reading this thread?  Might be of interest to you.  I know you were asking about Next Cruise....

Yes, @Sabrinaklai I finally read this thread.  WOW...and I don't mean about the quarterly promotions, rather the contorted math one may encounter at Next Cruise!  More food for thought...and reason to bring the laptop along as @twangster suggests.

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