Gratuity Breakdown

[JLMoran]

1 hour ago, Sabrinaklai said:

Not trying to start an argument.  Just trying to view it from a different lens. ?

@Sabrinaklai, not taking it as an argument at all. I may well have not worded my comment carefully enough.

I fully agree that all of those additional staff (vacuumers, bus people, etc) are necessary and absolutely play a role in the overall experience. My point of my comment was only that I'm seeing the argument against these so-called "gratuities" that are, in fact, a service fee and just another component of these employees' day-to-day wage, not a true gratuity. The other part of my comment is that with this understanding of how these fees are spread out to the crew, that I'd like to see a little more truth in advertising and either flat-out call it the service / hotel fee that it really is, or just bundle it into the base price. And then, in addition, go back to making actual gratuties a thing that are paid into envelopes (or put on your SeaPass card via the app / TV console) at the end of the cruise. I think my comment was missing this last part, which might have made it a little less provocative.

We already have a line item for port fees and taxes. What's the issue with having an up-front line item for service fee / hotel fee / whatever the heck the lawyers or marketers want to call it? People who want those deep-discounted base rates can still find them, they'll just see the fee up front and pay it up front. And they're free to tack on additional true gratuity at the end of the cruise, just like they can today on top of the current front-loaded "gratuity" (mandatory service / hotel fee).

[Traveler]

All the gratitude issue is much more complicated than just what happens in RCL or even in all the cruise industry,

I think we all (as society) created a monster which is very hard to handle.

Before I am being attacked on being cheap and not want to give my money for people that work hard and not paid as much I will say that I give gratitude , many time very happy to give but many other times it is all because this is what I am being expected.

Don’t get me wrong, people should get money for good services they provide , but is it really should be to us to choose  ? How many people will not leave tips in a restaurant if they got a mediocre/bad service ? I guess not many as most likely you will get the shaming treatment  like the waiter saying something like “hey , did not you forgot something” or other action which will make you feel very unconfutable.

When I am saying we create a monster I am talking exactly about those thinks, sometime I am feeling in certain ports or even on the ship as if I am consider to be walking wallet.

On last excursions at Jamaica I was asked for tips from the one who escort us on the buss , the buss driver , the one who lead the trip with the horses , his assistance  , the one who brought us the box of  food  and even the one that stand near the place we changed our cloth. And it is not only there. Again , I would gladly give tips for good service and I understand they are not earning much , I just do not like to be under pressure  to give them.

You can even see in convenient stores tips jars and many other places.

Once I went with my coworkers  to a restaurant at Manhattan, at the end of the meal when we asked for the check  (so we can pay including adding extra tip as  we got good service) the waiter came to me before he gave me the check  and told me that he do not know if I know but in NYC it is common to leave at least 20% as tip , I guess he heard us talking in foreign language and wanted to secure his tips , what a wonderful ending for that meal.

Regarding all the people that give service over the ship, I am asking where it should end?  are we expecting to give tips to the cleaner in our local mall  ? , what about the people that sweep the street? , people that fix the electric lines in the middle of a storm ?  And many other examples.

Hey , if I am fixing a customer crises should I get a tip? ,  I worked very hard on it , did not sleeps for 48 hours and eat cold pizza instead of a normal meals.  What about if I give a very good training to people, should they tip me?

You can say, you probably get a good compensation  for what you are doing therefore you are not in the category of getting a tip , ok , maybe you are right but what about let say , nurses at hospital that gave me a good service or the once which are moving the sick people from place to place , they are both not getting much  , should we tip them ?  What about teachers  which to my opinion are not paid enough for what they are doing and what they need to handle (especially if they need to handle students as I used to be), maybe each semester the kids will get envelope to leave for their teachers (a good time for that will be before final tests J )

As Matt said, we do not have a better system for now, but I think we must have.

I agree that services should be paid out of the regular cruise fees and as suggested here extra tip for good service above what the job requirements   can be added as cache to the people or even better with the application from the sea pass.

Sorry for the long replay, but this subject really making me very unconfutable and annoyed

[ellcee]

I agree with you, @traveler 100%. It's going to take a lot thought to change this.

[SeaFarers]

Since we are on the subject of gratuities -- Does anyone have any idea/insights on what each Casino Royale staff's share ($$ / %) of the tips pool?  Just curious to know how they stack up with the rest of the ship's service provider crew. 

[craig403]

@monctonguy mentioned the number of cabins the stateroom attendant cleans in a day.  When we were on the Carnival Breeze last month (don't ask), the attendant meet us after getting to our room.  He stated that we needed to tell him when we wanted our room cleaned and our options were morning, nightly, or twice a day and to tell him approximately what time he was to clean.  We thought it was strange until we questioned about it.  He said that he used to clean 25 rooms a day but that Carnival had up the count to 35 a day and he would appreciate it if he could only do our room once a day.   I thought 25 was a bunch, but 35!  Wow.  25 rooms X 20 minutes? = 8.3 hours  For those who are math challenged. :-) 

Ok, maybe they only spend 10 minutes if no ones's home at the time.  

[twangster]

14 minutes ago, craig403 said:

@monctonguy mentioned the number of cabins the stateroom attendant cleans in a day.  When we were on the Carnival Breeze last month (don't ask), the attendant meet us after getting to our room.  He stated that we needed to tell him when we wanted our room cleaned and our options were morning, nightly, or twice a day and to tell him approximately what time he was to clean.  We thought it was strange until we questioned about it.  He said that he used to clean 25 rooms a day but that Carnival had up the count to 35 a day and he would appreciate it if he could only do our room once a day.   I thought 25 was a bunch, but 35!  Wow.  25 rooms X 20 minutes? = 8.3 hours  For those who are math challenged. :-) 

Ok, maybe they only spend 10 minutes if no ones's home at the time.  

It's a lot of little things like this that contributed to me moving past Carnival.  Did they have tablecloths in the MDR on non-formal nights?

[Lovetocruise2002]

7 minutes ago, twangster said:

It's a lot of little things like this that contributed to me moving past Carnival.  Did they have tablecloths in the MDR on non-formal nights?

Lol!  This topic came up on our last family cruise (non-Carnival).  My parents like cruising Carnival and I was totally speechless when my dad brought up that Carnival doesn't have table cloths on non-formal nights!  SHM.  They were last on Carnival in October 2017.

[Steve L]

I tell my room attendant that he/she only needed to clean every other day. I don't really need more than that as we keep the place pretty tidy and I'm not very demanding. They get off a little easier when I'm on board!

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, Steve L said:

I tell my room attendant that he/she only needed to clean every other day. I don't really need more than that as we keep the place pretty tidy and I'm not very demanding. They get off a little easier when I'm on board!

I often do this.  I don't change my towels everyday at home and I know how to make a bed.

On another forum I see people leave negative reviews and complain that sheets aren't changed everyday.  Seriously?  Do these people change their bedsheets everyday at home?

[Traveler]

57 minutes ago, twangster said:

I often do this.  I don't change my towels everyday at home and I know how to make a bed.

On another forum I see people leave negative reviews and complain that sheets aren't changed everyday.  Seriously?  Do these people change their bedsheets everyday at home?

Totally  agree , I also prefer that people will not access to my room to often .

I am on business travels quite allot and I always try to reuse towels and have the do not disturb sign during many of the days, actually in Sheraton chain  they have this program in some of the hotels named green choice where you are getting extra  points for each day you choose that your room will not be cleaned.

But , I also found out that in some hotels the room attended  are getting credit only for room they really cleaned ...  in other places if they finished all the rooms ahead of time and there is one room with do not disturb they are stuck until the end of the shift, which explains why every time I went out from this hotels (mainly weekends) they jump and ask when they clean.

 

[mworkman]

I seen this posted on that other forum, I don't know how accurate it is.

The automatic gratuity is $13.50 USD, or $16.50 USD for suite guests, applied to each guest's SeaPass® account on a daily basis. Here's how it is shared between your onboard service team:
Standard Staterooms: 

• $6.35 - Dining Services
• $3.45 - Stateroom Attendant
• $3.70 - Other Hotel Services

Suites: 

• $6.35 - Dining Services
• $6.10 - Suite Attendant
• $4.05 - Other Hotel Services

[Maria]

In my opinion, Cruise Ships companies should be paying the crews salaries, full-stop.  Any tips that the passengers gives the crews should be considered as bonuses, specially for a fantastic service.  The crews might get a free board and meals, but their accommodation is right In the bottom of the ship, I believe close enough to the engine room, windowless and noisy.  Note, though, that a good percentage of the crews are well educated - they are just not lucky enough to be born in a first world country.  So, please, be generous and stop dissecting how much the crews are getting - rather, ask what the cruise ships are paying them.  

[monctonguy]

We are discussing both sides of the story..and really it comes back to the same thing..what and HOW the cruise lines pay them. Essentially using "tips" to supplement what they pay the crew.

And selling it to us as "tips" is deceitful. Call it what it is.

 

No one here had said the crew doesn't deserve it or work hard for it...however, that doesn't make it right or mean that we have to blindly do what they tell/ask us to.

[twangster]

46 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

We are discussing both sides of the story..and really it comes back to the same thing..what and HOW the cruise lines pay them. Essentially using "tips" to supplement what they pay the crew.

And selling it to us as "tips" is deceitful. Call it what it is.

No one here had said the crew doesn't deserve it or work hard for it...however, that doesn't make it right or mean that we have to blindly do what they tell/ask us to.

I agree they are not very transparent.  I've assumed for a long time that this 'gratuity' is simply revenue that goes into the big pot of money along with cruise fares and all other items purchased by guests.  While they may track each source of revenue for analytics, at the end of the day it's just another source of revenue.

But does it really matter?  If they bundle 'gratuity' and base fare, or if they keep them separated as it is today, what difference does it make?  We are going to pay the same amount either way.

At least now if service is terrible we have the option of visiting guest services to reduce gratuity.  If they bundle it all into the cruise fare we won't have that as an option. 

For the less seasoned or new cruiser with no brand loyalty most shop for a cruise by price as a major factor in their decision process.

If cruise line A has an itinerary for $X and cruise line B has the identical itinerary for $X+101 even though cruise line B has bundled gratuity into that price, which cruise do you think most people are going to purchase?

[monctonguy]

Oh I WHY they do it....I just don't like it..period.

 

I have bitten the bullet so far, however all bets are off for future cruises. I would like to see how I feel actually tipping the people that help/serve me when they deserve it. Like how we all do in real life when not on a boat.

[Ray]

6 hours ago, Maria said:

In my opinion, Cruise Ships companies should be paying the crews salaries, full-stop.  Any tips that the passengers gives the crews should be considered as bonuses, specially for a fantastic service.  The crews might get a free board and meals, but their accommodation is right In the bottom of the ship, I believe close enough to the engine room, windowless and noisy.  Note, though, that a good percentage of the crews are well educated - they are just not lucky enough to be born in a first world country.  So, please, be generous and stop dissecting how much the crews are getting - rather, ask what the cruise ships are paying them.  

You mention that crews are just NOT lucky enough to be born in a 1ST  world country! USA is meant to be a 1st world country YET they have the same ridiculous wage structure for waitress staff etc in restaurants as cruise ships do for their staff. As long as it's legal for companies to pay what is basically nothing to staff they will do it.  

[twangster]

26 minutes ago, Ray said:

 As long as it's legal for companies to pay what is basically nothing to staff they will do it.  

And cruisers like us will keep on enjoying cheap cruise fares.  

Not unlike the cheap goods we like to import from 3rd world countries where labor laws don't exist and cheap labor abounds.

[Patta_Conna]

Wow that amount is alot! It really does add up. Usually guest still pass the staff cash tips after paying for automatic gratuities.

[J. Woody]

On 2018-01-14 at 5:20 PM, mworkman said:

I seen this posted on that other forum, I don't know how accurate it is.

The automatic gratuity is $13.50 USD, or $16.50 USD for suite guests, applied to each guest's SeaPass® account on a daily basis. Here's how it is shared between your onboard service team:
Standard Staterooms: 

• $6.35 - Dining Services
• $3.45 - Stateroom Attendant
• $3.70 - Other Hotel Services

Suites: 

• $6.35 - Dining Services
• $6.10 - Suite Attendant
• $4.05 - Other Hotel Services

If I remove pre paid gratuity, and pay by cash and  hand out to each person end of the cruise ,  Head server, assistant server 1 . assistant server 2,  and 2 of stateroom attendant, 

who should I give the “ other hotel services” ??  too complicated.  I heard “ gust services” provide the envelopes how many should I get those.??  May be prepaid gratuity is more easy for me.? Please advise me..  Total how many people should get tip from us ??

[Lovetocruise2002]

9 hours ago, J. Woody said:

If I remove pre paid gratuity, and pay by cash and  hand out to each person end of the cruise ,  Head server, assistant server 1 . assistant server 2,  and 2 of stateroom attendant, 

who should I give the “ other hotel services” ??  too complicated.  I heard “ gust services” provide the envelopes how many should I get those.??  May be prepaid gratuity is more easy for me.? Please advise me..  Total how many people should get tip from us ??

Don't remove gratuities.  If anything, tip additional for good service.  Envelopes can be found at guest services.  That's my two cents.

[ellcee]

To ensure everyone gets something, in my opinion, prepay. There is a lot of debating on this but it seems this is how you cover all bases. If you so choose give any extra you want to to whomever deserves it. I'm not sure anyone knows exactly it's divided past what has been already shown here. The tipping system is pretty crappy as it is - this seems to at least reach who it's supposed to reach. Also - if you planned on giving those exact amounts in envelopes it's easier to prepay and let the them divide your tip and give it to the appropriate parties. Who want to hunt people down on a trip.

[LetsTryThisPlace]

Being in a tourist destination we have many restaurants include the tip or "service fee". You have many different cultures and tipping is mostly a North American standard. I do believe if cruise lines feel these are required they should be a service fee. This way we know the ones in the background get their cut. If I get extra service I will gladly tip extra. You also learn if you tip along the way you are more likely to have your drink waiting for you on a busy day at the bar. 

I also never heard it mentioned about how they are paid. I was always under the impression that they are regulated by the minimum wage and laws of where the ship is registered. Since when on board you are considered under US law should the employees not be under the same?

I also know on some ships the employees do have their own hot tube area and common area to relax and unwind (however not as nice as our areas.) I have worked with many Filipinos as I work in the construction industry, making even $5 an hour is like $100 back home. Houses are cheap to build and the food is even cheaper. One of my good friends can send home $1000 and can cover his families expenses, schooling fees and others. I was also told they are actually trained specifically for cruising industry. It is not often you are something else. Coming from first world countries we find it hard to justify but if you think about it if they were to make more they would have to work more. Think of what the new Ontario law has done to benefits. If it was not a great opportunity they would focus on other industries but it is one of their most desired jobs for a reason.

I am not saying they don't deserve what they are getting for sure. I also don't fully agree with how cruise lines handle or word it. The way it is worded causes a lot of drama compared to a service fee. I think if it was a service fee people would actually be more willing to give extra. Going back to restaurants and the "included service fee". If I got mediocre service I may just give what is asked and if good service round it up or give a little. If I get bad service I am also now more likely to mention something to a manager, now if they are having a bad day this may impact their employment. However, if it was up to me I normally give a minimum of 10% for even horrible service, you still deserve something but I may not feel it was worth everything and now the next time they are better I might even give 20-25% easy. I always feel that if you thank for great service with higher % and maybe deduct % if you had a bad time is better control then something like comment cards as it leads to fewer employers jumping the gun and firing employees for 1 bad night, but they still get the message.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, LetsTryThisTech said:

I also never heard it mentioned about how they are paid. I was always under the impression that they are regulated by the minimum wage and laws of where the ship is registered. Since when on board you are considered under US law should the employees not be under the same?

No country can impose it's labor laws on foreign flagged vessels or aircraft.  For example a cargo ship from Zimbabwe enters a US port to drop off or pickup cargo.  The crew are not automatically entitled to US minimum wages for all of time since they entered a US port for a few hours.  Many countries where ships are commonly registered have minimal or no labor laws.

US criminal and certain civil laws only apply while a vessel is within 12 nautical miles of US territory.  Once at sea the law on board is an interesting subject but it's mostly governed by the flag the vessel sails under while it is in international waters.  It becomes quite complex and the Master of the vessel has to be well versed in maritime law to deal with all kinds of stuff that occurs on a cruise ship.  To a large extent, the Master of the vessel is the law on board.  

There are international conventions that govern what a country can impose on foreign vessels and aircraft that visit such as safety inspections and health codes.  Many countries are just happy to see a cruise ship arrive for a visit and don't impose any inspections at all.  If someone commits a crime while a ship is in port, they are typically handed over to local police for processing under the laws of that country.  

As far as crew contracts for wages, few laws of any land apply.  It tends to be whatever they agree to and its between them and the company.  

[Ray]

11 minutes ago, twangster said:

No country can impose it's labor laws on foreign flagged vessels or aircraft.  For example a cargo ship from Zimbabwe enters a US port to drop off or pickup cargo.  The crew are not automatically entitled to US minimum wages for all of time since they entered a US port for a few hours.  Many countries where ships are commonly registered have minimal or no labor laws.

US criminal and certain civil laws only apply while a vessel is within 12 nautical miles of US territory.  Once at sea the law on board is an interesting subject but it's mostly governed by the flag the vessel sails under while it is in international waters.  It becomes quite complex and the Master of the vessel has to be well versed in maritime law to deal with all kinds of stuff that occurs on a cruise ship.  To a large extent, the Master of the vessel is the law on board.  

There are international conventions that govern what a country can impose on foreign vessels and aircraft that visit such as safety inspections and health codes.  Many countries are just happy to see a cruise ship arrive for a visit and don't impose any inspections at all.  If someone commits a crime while a ship is in port, they are typically handed over to local police for processing under the laws of that country.  

As far as crew contracts for wages, few laws of any land apply.  It tends to be whatever they agree to and its between them and the company.  

Indian registered ship docked in my home port, not sure what happened but word got out that crew hadnt been paid for months by owners, ship was seized by port authorities and held until court proceedings instructed ship to be sold and crew to be paid wages from the sale 

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, Ray said:

Indian registered ship docked in my home port, not sure what happened but word got out that crew hadnt been paid for months by owners, ship was seized by port authorities and held until court proceedings instructed ship to be sold and crew to be paid wages from the sale 

Maritime law is fascinating.  It helps too when port, fuel or dock workers aren't paid which paves the way for local laws to trump international conventions.

[Ray]

this is the story

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/ship-could-be-sold-to-pay-stranded-crewmen/

[Orange Crush]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:47 AM, twangster said:

I understand where you are coming from.  

The recent increase from $13.50 per day to $14.50 per day represents a 7% increase.  I sure wish I received a 7% increase this year.  Tipping in the US hasn't increased 7% since last year.  How is this increase justified and why is it required when cost of living has not increased at that rate?

I've gone along with auto gratuity on more than 25 cruises but I'm starting to question the whole tipping more now.  I wish it was all more transparent.  I'll have to think hard before giving the same additional cash tips as I've done in the past.  Might have to cut that back.  

The lack of transparency is what frustrates me.

I have no idea what Royal is paying them, vs what percentage of their income is coming from gratuity.  How much of the increase do they actually net, or is Royal pushing grats up so they can keep the salaries lower, which is really just shifting more of their labor costs onto the guests and the crew members aren't actually making more when it's all added up.

I want the people waiting hand-and-foot on me to be happy with their careers and make a fair livable salary.  But I also don't research the cost of living and regional job market differences for my waiters and cabin stewards or compare their total compensation packages including benefits and time off across cruise lines sailing in different markets and regions because I don't work for Royal Caribbean's HR department, so why the hell is so much of this decision making being left to me?

It's a bad and confusing system.

[twangster]

6 minutes ago, Orange Crush said:

The lack of transparency is what frustrates me.

It's a bad and confusing system.

My gut tells me it all just goes into the big pot of money and crew don't get tips added on a per cruise basis.  My previous cruise on Anthem had ~4,200 guests.  This cruise on Anthem ~4,900.  Did the crew make more on this cruise compared to the last cruise?   Maybe they did.  Who knows?  If so they must hate off peak and love peak season.  If so they must hate us solo cruisers.

I need to get a cabin attendant drunk and have them spill the beans of their contract.

[LetsTryThisPlace]

7 minutes ago, Orange Crush said:

It's a bad and confusing system.

This is probably what they want. People may ask more questions if we knew. Think if we are paying 1000pp for a cruise and after all costs it really only 200pp because of the "gratuities" is offsetting wages people might ask where the other amounts are going to. Many other companies also do this and pay more or less then you expect. The thing is unless someone here works for RCL we will never truly know.

1 minute ago, twangster said:

I need to get a cabin attendant drunk and have them spill the beans of their contract.

1

This might be able to be done at a port they can get off at lol.