Gratuity Breakdown

[monctonguy]

Interesting to see this and do some math.

 

For the room attendants....I don't know how many rooms they are responsible for...I know it was to be at least 10..I am thinking its closer to 15-20...but if we just use 10..and average out 2 ppl to room(often there is more)...then it works out to be about $30,000 USD they make...JUST on room tips! Not counting what they make as the minimum wages or any extra tips that are left.

 

The dining staff makes about $8 MILLION USD in tips on average per year.....using a ship with 2700 passengers

 

I mean....I don't think we need to feel too badly for these people as is often insinuated on travel boards. I agree they work hard at what they do, but they have a VERY low cost of living and at the end of the day are paid quite well overall ..IMHO.

 

Thoughts?

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[Lovetocruise2002]

Thanks for sharing that breakdown @monctonguy.  I always think too of the people they might be supporting back at home.  Many of them come from families where they have multiple children and maybe even older parents to care for.  So not sure how far their money has to stretch.  But definitely interesting to see the math...

[Goofyfanatic]

Please remember that while you look at these numbers take into account the number of days off that these workers get while on contract...basically ZERO.

I just don't get the infatuation of trying to figure out how much these workers make.

[twangster]

I've always imagined that gratuity just goes into the big cruise line pot of money. 

Crew have a contract that specifies income but do they really get paid out based on each individual cruise guest count in addition to a base pay?  I often cruise solo - am I hurting crew because there is only one of me in the cabin?  If a ship sails in the summer with greater than double occupancy because of families do crew make more money compared to a cruise that sails at or below double occupancy off-peak?  If a guest removes gratuity by visiting guest services do the crew get paid less for that particular sailing?

Disclosure - I'v never seen a crew contract.

[NS8VN]

Are you basing this off of 365 days?  Because I'm doubting they work every single day, but if they do then yes I will call $30k extremely low.

[monctonguy]

it's good to be educated, knowledgeable and be able to think critical when presented with both sides of an issue.

 

I am NOT infatuated with trying to figure out how much they make. But what I am annoyed with is all the one sided stories/examples/rumors etc when it comes to this contentious issue.

 

I get that they have family at home...they support others...they only work "X" amount of mths a year. But we all have our own personal issues and situations when it comes to jobs/income/family. And I am not getting into how far a USD would go sent back to the Philippines as an example..although its a safe bet it would go quite far so then that would be a whole other issue to consider.

 

At the end of the day...I dislike the fact they call these tips or gratuities...they are not. It is simply an extra cruise fee or tax to be honest. I would much rather tip based on the service I receive.....the way tips are meant to be. But if/when that is brought up, all we hear about is how little they make and how hard they work etc.

 

At least this gives some kinda idea where/how it goes.  And I think that using 10 rooms as an example is low balling it to be honest.

[monctonguy]

12 minutes ago, NS8VN said:

Are you basing this off of 365 days?  Because I'm doubting they work every single day, but if they do then yes I will call $30k extremely low.

LOW??....really?.....SMDH....

 

You do realize that the average Canadian income is about $35,000 USD...for someone who works all year(2 weeks vacation) and losses about half that in taxes so take home less than 20,000......so please don't tell me that $30,000 USD in just tips is low...on top of their low cost of living on the ship and back home.

 

I know they don't work 365...but lets say they work what we work on average...that's still a great tip.  Are you kiddin me?? These are not wages remember. This is on TOP of wages. And I am guessing its more like 20 rooms they clean..so closer to $60,000 USD  then in tips....subtract what they don't work when they are off.

 

 

[jticarruthers]

It is an interesting discussion. I think that just as with everything else there are multiple sides of every story :)

I think the culture of family and duty to family plays into this a lot as well.

A couple of years back we had a very slow section of the dining room and spent a good portion of each evening discussing life/the job/family with our waiter. He was (as suggested in a comment above) supporting his own family, his parents and some extended family (I forget the exact count but think it was 2-3 siblings and their families). He talked extensively about how proud he and his family were that he could provide for them all, etc. How much he enjoyed being able to go home between contracts and in general how lucky he considered himself to be able to have the work/life that he had.

So clearly the money was good enough ;)

In general I think the wages+tips are poor by 1st world aka US standards but pretty darn good by the standards of the countries that most of the employees call home.

I also side with Monctonguy on this one and wish they would get rid of the "mandatory gratuities" and put it all in the cruise fare. I would much rather know the real price up front and then feel free to tip for exemplary service than have to explain to other first time cruisers that the price is not the price, tipping really shouldn't be optional and then trying to decide how much "Extra" I want to tip.

 

[twangster]

Australian cruises are inclusive of some gratuity.  Less of a culture of tipping compared to the US.

@F1guynz post in another gratuity thread here:

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/boards/index.php?/topic/4901-beverage-gratuities/&do=findComment&comment=48255

 I think crew would benefit if they included gratuity in base fares in North America as some would tip normally anyways. 

[Ray]

2 hours ago, Sabrinaklai said:

Thanks for sharing that breakdown @monctonguy.  I always think too of the people they might be supporting back at home.  Many of them come from families where they have multiple children and maybe even older parents to care for.  So not sure how far their money has to stretch.  But definitely interesting to see the math...

when i worked in middle east i had guys from india, pakistan,  working for me, their basic wage was about £150 a month, guys from Philippines were on double that about £300 a month i was shocked when i discovered this but they told me not to worry as back home they would only get half that so they were actually rich

I also know someone who works for aida cruises they earn $900 a month ( not sure if that includes tips) , given that that average wage in PH is about $150 per month there isnt a lot coming over them, yes they send money home but they also manage to buy new sneakers every months, shop in pandora, drink in staff bar and when in port go out to eat and drink etc in places like hard rock cafe, then post all their photos on Instagram.  

 

[Cez]

Since we are on this subject...

Does anyone know how tips from drinking packages are calculated/distributed ?

If I'm past my break even point (easy ) is waiter receives tips on consecutive drinks or those tips are cupped on what I've paid when purchasing package ?

[twangster]

Just now, Cez said:

Since we are on this subject...

Does anyone know how tips from drinking packages are calculated/distributed ?

If I'm past my break even point (easy ) is waiter receives tips on consecutive drinks or those tips are cupped on what I've paid when purchasing package ?

For drink packages my understanding is that billing records indicate which bartender served each drink and they are compensated based on that.  This keep them motivated to serve customers efficiently.   I assume drinks paid individually work the same way since gratuity is added to each drink. I could be wrong, just what I heard.

[Cez]

5 minutes ago, twangster said:

For drink packages my understanding is that billing records indicate which bartender served each drink and they are compensated based on that

Maybe I'm overthinking it but assuming that I've paid $100 as gratuity for my drinking package and consume 100 drinks on the cruise. Is waiter who serves me two drinks gets $2 (percentage of what I paid) or 18% of the price for those two drinks regardless of how many I consume?

If the second, it would be one more way to support crew and their families    

 

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Cez said:

Maybe I'm overthinking it but assuming that I've paid $100 as gratuity for my drinking package and consume 100 drinks on the cruise. Is waiter who serves me two drinks gets $2 (percentage of what I paid) or 18% of the price for those two drinks regardless of how many I consume?

If the second, it would be one more way to support crew and their families    

 

Great point!  I'm drinking this one to help support the crew and their family back home.  Una mas por favor!

[NS8VN]

2 hours ago, monctonguy said:

LOW??....really?.....SMDH....

 

You do realize that the average Canadian income is about $35,000 USD...

Personally I don't feel indignation that my room steward might be making a half-decent wage.  Rather surprised just how angry you seem to be that I don't.

But anyway, let me try my hand at the whole math thing.

260 working days in a year.  Minus 2 weeks vacation, 250 working days in a year. (if they work more days then this will go up obviously, but that is true for Canadians too and I'm comparing apples to apples as best as I can)

250 x 71.8 (I will give you that 20 rooms) = $17,950.  Wage is probably $10,000/yr (if you disagree then feel free to offer proof otherwise), so a total gross income of $27,950 USD.

[Cez]

1 hour ago, NS8VN said:

so a total gross income of $27,950 USD.

So what are you saying that my Chinese room attended from last cruise made almost 6x median salary in China or equivalent of 180.000 in US. This is for a job that it does not required education, special skills or talent - just basic English.

I don't get why you take @monctonguy  comments as an anger. IMHO he just stating fact that we should not pity crew and think that RCL is exploiting them like there is no tomorrow. Truly, they are working hard, very long hours in relatively decent working conditions. In return they are getting room and board, plus dream salaries (in their respective countries). 

Those ships ain't cheep to build or run.  RCL is here to make money, you are receiving first class accommodation and service at more/less affordable price, crew earns money. Win-win-win.

 

[Gears]

7 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Interesting to see this and do some math.

 

For the room attendants....I don't know how many rooms they are responsible for...I know it was to be at least 10..I am thinking its closer to 15-20...but if we just use 10..and average out 2 ppl to room(often there is more)...then it works out to be about $30,000 USD they make...JUST on room tips! Not counting what they make as the minimum wages or any extra tips that are left.

 

The dining staff makes about $8 MILLION USD in tips on average per year.....using a ship with 2700 passengers

 

I mean....I don't think we need to feel too badly for these people as is often insinuated on travel boards. I agree they work hard at what they do, but they have a VERY low cost of living and at the end of the day are paid quite well overall ..IMHO.

 

Thoughts?

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I have to wonder if the room attendants (using your example) are the only ones sharing in the gratuities categorized as such. 

[Rose City Cruiser]

I wonder if they use a hiring agent in their home country and how much of a cut they take.  

[Lovetocruise2002]

7 minutes ago, jurrjurr said:

I wonder if they use a hiring agent in their home country and how much of a cut they take.  

According to a crew member that we spoke to on Harmony, he mentioned that RC has hiring offices in different countries. Those who are interested in working for cruise lines applies to the hiring office in their own country. I am not sure whether or not they get referred to these offices or if they seek it out on their own.

[Guest toodle68]

Base pay also depends a lot on where the person is from and how many contracts they have completed. Someone from the Philippines is paid less than an American. They also work almost every single day for 7 months.. usually 12+ hour shifts. They have to pay for their own internet and several other items. Yes, they get a small box for a room where they share with someone else and food, but they are not allowed in guest areas and live on deck 1.

If we look at the state room attendant based on 20 rooms, 2 people in each, for 210 days, that is roughly 30k. Then add 700-900 a month for 7 months. They also clock in and out so I assume any missed hours due to sickness is lost income.

They also have to pay for their own travel to and back to where ever the ship is. I would guess that could easily be 2-3k in travel costs around 1 contract. They have upfront medical costs and when they leave the ship, have zero medical, dental, vision etc insurance. I doubt they are paying into a 401k, or have disability or life insurance.

Compare that to living in a developed country.  Medical, dental coverage. Pension and/or 401k. Paid vacation and sick time. Life, disability insurance etc. 

I don't begrudge the room attendant getting $40k US a year before taxes and expenses though. Lets face it, it is a job many people wont do. Just like the farm jobs in the US, or hotel cleaners etc.

 

[monctonguy]

I was not saying that I felt that they SHOULDNT make that wage. I was providing concrete numbers as given out by Celebrity cruises as to what they make based on what your daily grats are. It seems there is so much confusion and questions around this topic.

Of course there are other factors and variables that we don't know...however, I think its safe to say that they do ok. Yes there is sacrifice and time away from family etc, but lets be honest..they are making about as much or more as what we make in North America..which has a much higher cost of living, taxes(at least in Canada) and keep in mind that many of us have attended college and University and spent $10's of thousands of dollars on education..and aren't making much more than the room attendants.

 

I don't care what they make....I think its just important for ppl to be informed and know both sides of any story. I hear so much about the "poor" people that work on the cruise ship and how if we don't tip them we are terrible people cause we can afford the trip to start with on travel boards that it drives me crazy. They chose the career, they know the benefits/pay and the downside to it(if you consider any part of the job to have a downside).

 

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, monctonguy said:

I was not saying that I felt that they SHOULDNT make that wage. I was providing concrete numbers as given out by Celebrity cruises as to what they make based on what your daily grats are. It seems there is so much confusion and questions around this topic.

Of course there are other factors and variables that we don't know...however, I think its safe to say that they do ok. Yes there is sacrifice and time away from family etc, but lets be honest..they are making about as much or more as what we make in North America..which has a much higher cost of living, taxes(at least in Canada) and keep in mind that many of us have attended college and University and spent $10's of thousands of dollars on education..and aren't making much more than the room attendants.

 

I don't care what they make....I think its just important for ppl to be informed and know both sides of any story. I hear so much about the "poor" people that work on the cruise ship and how if we don't tip them we are terrible people cause we can afford the trip to start with on travel boards that it drives me crazy. They chose the career, they know the benefits/pay and the downside to it(if you consider any part of the job to have a downside).

 

Some numbers to compare from India , mind this is what expats are paying , local will pay much much less 

Driver - 170 $ (private driver which is available almost 24/7 if needed)

House helper (cleaning, take care of kids ) 5-9  hours per day 60- 120$

Cook  6 days a week 2-3 hours every day - 70$ (lets say she works in two places than 140$)

IT testers our from college - 400- 500$ 

So you can understand why people from some country consider it to be a good option to save some money and even build themselves for better future for them and for their families. 

 

 

[ellcee]

I hate the whole tipping system on cruises. I hate having to tip. I know I have a choice not to but it's not in my conscience to not pay gratuities up front. I don't mind tipping for great service but hate that people's salaries depend on tips. I hate that an average attendant gets the same as an amazing one...I know I have the power to change that but that includes me paying more out of pocket. I see the whole thing as a scheme to make us think we're spending less and that gratuities are a choice. I hate all of that.

 

Grumpy Smurf is done.

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, ellcee said:

I hate the whole tipping system on cruises. I hate having to tip. I know I have a choice not to but it's not in my conscience to not pay gratuities up front. I don't mind tipping for great service but hate that people's salaries depend on tips. I hate that an average attendant gets the same as an amazing one...I know I have the power to change that but that includes me paying more out of pocket. I see the whole thing as a scheme to make us think we're spending less and that gratuities are a choice. I hate all of that.

 

Grumpy Smurf is done.

I understand where you are coming from.  

The recent increase from $13.50 per day to $14.50 per day represents a 7% increase.  I sure wish I received a 7% increase this year.  Tipping in the US hasn't increased 7% since last year.  How is this increase justified and why is it required when cost of living has not increased at that rate?

I've gone along with auto gratuity on more than 25 cruises but I'm starting to question the whole tipping more now.  I wish it was all more transparent.  I'll have to think hard before giving the same additional cash tips as I've done in the past.  Might have to cut that back.  

[Lovetocruise2002]

17 minutes ago, twangster said:

The recent increase from $13.50 per day to $14.50 per day represents a 7% increase.  I sure wish I received a 7% increase this year.  Tipping in the US hasn't increased 7% since last year.  How is this increase justified and why is it required when cost of living has not increased at that rate?

Sure hope they aren't following the ON, Canada model ?

 Minimum wage in Ontario just went up from $11.60/hr to $14/hr.  That's about a 20% increase.  Going up to $15/hr by 2019. 

All jokes aside, I agree with @ellcee.  It is getting harder and harder to justify (in my own head) the extra tipping that we usually do.  It smells more and more like a scam each increase.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Sabrinaklai said:

Sure hope they aren't following the ON, Canada model ?

 Minimum wage in Ontario just went up from $11.60/hr to $14/hr.  That's about a 20% increase.  Going up to $15/hr by 2019. 

Metric money.  Completely different.

[Lovetocruise2002]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

Metric money.  Completely different.

Still crazy here.  Really bad for small businesses...

[monctonguy]

2 hours ago, ellcee said:

I hate the whole tipping system on cruises. I hate having to tip. I know I have a choice not to but it's not in my conscience to not pay gratuities up front. I don't mind tipping for great service but hate that people's salaries depend on tips. I hate that an average attendant gets the same as an amazing one...I know I have the power to change that but that includes me paying more out of pocket. I see the whole thing as a scheme to make us think we're spending less and that gratuities are a choice. I hate all of that.

 

Grumpy Smurf is done.

That's been my whole point from day one. Its not a fair system.

A)it makes the cruise look cheaper when really it can be quite an extra add-on

B)We don't really know how its exactly broken down..and from there what they actually get when its all said and done

C) it doesn't encourage good service if they all get the same no matter what

D)It encourages customers to bribe(that's my opinion) them in advance for good service

E) if you talk or mention about removing auto-grats, people are mortified and look down and condemn you

 

It's really not a good model at all in my mind....charge it as a tax or fee as part of the cruise, and then allow us to award for when/if we get exception service. Wouldn't that make everyone happy..or at least 99%?

[Cez]

1 hour ago, monctonguy said:

B)We don't really know how its exactly broken down..and from there what they actually get when its all said and done

This what I found about Carnival. I guess we can add a ~ $1.00  to each category and apply to Royal nowadays. Interesting reading that helps to understand entire tipping scheme. So far I never removed my auto-tips, but truly I had no reason to do so, every time we had amazing service. 

Quote

Here is the breakdown, per day:
Housekeeping Team: $4.05 ($5.05 for suites) - this includes not only your head steward, but his/her 1-2 assistant stewards, the person that vacuums your particular passageway to your cabin, and the on call crew member from housekeeping that will come to clean up an unexpected mess or bring you extra towels outside of your steward team's normal work hours.

Dining Team: $6.40 - in addition to your head waiter his assistants this also covers, the runner that may be getting the meals from the galley to the wait team and the bus people that clear off the table when you are done redressing it for the next seating. Beyond dinner time it also covers those serving brunch and breakfast in the MDR (why do you think they ask your cabin # for open seating meals). Dining team members that serve on the Lido deck as wandering gratis drink servers and bus persons also get a bit out of this tip segment. 

Alternative Services: $2.50 includes (but not limited to) the bathroom attendants, the general housekeepers for public areas that pick up the glasses, plates, or other trash left around the ship in public areas, and some of the entertainers like the pre-dinner musicians (any of the soloist or groups not selling CDs or other items).

Also each primary team member that services you for the cruise (steward team & dining team) will get a negative mark by adjusting down or removing tips so if they wish to tip in cash it is also recommended that a short Thank-You note also be included with an expression of how satisfied you were with the service provide to offset the negative. So those that wish to tip as they go should be advised to carry plenty of singles for the alternative service personnel they encounter daily, and have envelopes with notes made out to each individual service team member for end of cruise tipping. Since the advent of auto-gratuities team members are no longer required to share a tip given to them directly or left in a cabin or table.

 

[Cez]

40 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

That's been my whole point from day one. Its not a fair system.

A)it makes the cruise look cheaper when really it can be quite an extra add-on

I agree with you 100%, however it is what it is. For me auto-tips serves as absolution on how much, who and when should I tip. Of course if someone is really going above and beyond I'm showing my monetary appreciation.

I'm still puzzled if drinking more within drinking package means more tips to bartenders and dining team stuff. Anyone ???

[JLMoran]

@Cez, thanks for that breakdown from Carnival that you posted. That's even more detailed than what @monctonguy was able to find for Celebrity. I had a suspicion that the tips were spread out in the way that was described, and it's nice to see it spelled out so clearly. I imagine all cruise lines follow the same model with this, so we can assume Royal spreads it out similarly.

And seeing that, I really do have to agree with a lot of the sentiment that's being expressed. Let's just take the person vacuuming my hallway. I may pass the person a dozen times or more during my cruise, I may say a polite hello or even engage in some small talk at the beginning or end of the cruise. But this is not someone who I'm actively interacting with in any kind of direct service way, and it makes just about zero sense to me that this person is getting anything that legitimately would be called a "tip" in the standard sense of the word. That portion of the  Housekeeping Team gratuity is really just a part of that person's salary, which happens to be subsidized by me and everyone else in that corridor.

If that's what's really happening, I'd rather just see this charged as an up-front service fee like hotels charge on top of the room rate, as part of my overall cruise fare. And then reduce the gratuity portion / restrict it to only the actual individuals with whom I have that direct interaction and can make the judgement on level of service.

Of course, then someone booking that inside cabin for $450 per person will be asking why they're being charged a 25%-35% "service fee" for all these unknown / unseen individuals, and stop sailing. I imagine that wouldn't help the cruise line's bottom line all that much. 

 

 

That actually brings up a separate point -- Why are interior, ocean view, and balcony all charged the same flat per-day rate when the cabins themselves have such a wide price spread? Aren't gratuities / service charges supposed to be a percentage of whatever you actually paid on the baseline service? I realize everyone's final cabin price is going to vary somewhat based on sales and such, but shouldn't it at least be some "rack rate" based on the cabin class? Same could be said for suites -- sure, their gratuity rate is a little higher than the non-suite rooms, but they carry such a premium that the gratuity is practically a pittance, particularly when you get to the highest suite categories.

Just using a sample 2019 7-night Southern Caribbean out of San Juan on Freedom, I'm seeing this:

• Base $14.50 pp / pd gratuity
  • Interior @ ~$97 pp/pd -- 15%
  • Ocean View @ ~$110 pp/pd -- 13%
  • Balcony @ ~$155 pp/pd -- 9%
     
• Suite-level $17.50 pp / pd gratuity
  • JS @ ~$220 pp/pd -- 8%
  • GS (1 BR) @ ~$346 pp/pd -- 5%
  • OS @ ~$423 pp / pd -- 4%
  • GS (2 BR) @ ~$642 pp / pd -- 3%

I can see where people who thought they got a great deal on their interior cabin would suddenly be feeling a little shafted when they realized how much of their base fare was being added back on again as "gratuity". Meanwhile, suite guests are barely blinking at the surcharge.

[monctonguy]

Good point about it being the same whether your in a inside, ocean, balcony or JS. I would think it should be a percentage of the rate you pay for the cruise. Isn't that how tipping is supposed to work normally? Also, with a bigger room comes a little more work etc....

 

I think the way the cruise lines  do the auto-grats in so many ways doesn't make sense and should not be the case. I think from a  corporation stand point they should be more clear and fair to their employees AND their customers.

[Boston Babe]

8 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

think the way the cruise lines  do the auto-grats in so many ways doesn't make sense and should not be the case. I think from a  corporation stand point they should be more clear and fair to their employees AND their customers.

I know I am in the minority regarding most ages on this board, I am older (not necessarily wiser!).  Some of you are only used to pre paying gratuities. "Back in the day" as they say, there was no such thing.  There were envelopes left in your stateroom on the last day of the cruise. Earmarked for Waiter (there were only 2 sittings then, same waiter too), Cabin attendant etc.

I can tell you even then as a young girl travelling not earning much money at the time they were probably given more in tips from me personally than what they are getting now with the mandatory gratuities.Back then I was paying $10.00 per day per person and I'm talking late 70's early 80's, add inflation over the years I was tipping much more than the $14.50 now.

That's my 2 cents. Now I'm wondering how much additional do I have to give to Concierge, is it expected?? What is enough? So the tipping even though you've paid it advance still goes on once aboard. You really have to budget that into each cruise like it's another cabin almost!   

[Cez]

17 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

Aren't gratuities / service charges supposed to be a percentage of whatever you actually paid on the baseline service?

Not necessarily. That would be directly an additional tax  not a gratuities. Waiter in MDR or support stuff don't care or does work extra because you are from higher paid cabin. In housekeeping amount of work  in slightly larger balcony vs inside is insignificant. However work might be more challenging in lower cost cabins with younger crowds. I'm saying this based on my experience seeing our teenage children inside cabin. I felt sorry for their cabin  attendant and left her additional tip in my kids habitat 

[Lovetocruise2002]

20 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

 

And seeing that, I really do have to agree with a lot of the sentiment that's being expressed. Let's just take the person vacuuming my hallway. I may pass the person a dozen times or more during my cruise, I may say a polite hello or even engage in some small talk at the beginning or end of the cruise. But this is not someone who I'm actively interacting with in any kind of direct service way, and it makes just about zero sense to me that this person is getting anything that legitimately would be called a "tip" in the standard sense of the word. That portion of the  Housekeeping Team gratuity is really just a part of that person's salary, which happens to be subsidized by me and everyone else in that corridor.

If that's what's really happening, I'd rather just see this charged as an up-front service fee like hotels charge on top of the room rate, as part of my overall cruise fare. And then reduce the gratuity portion / restrict it to only the actual individuals with whom I have that direct interaction and can make the judgement on level of service.

So...I debated whether or not to respond to this post...this is a loaded question/comment...but I feel somewhat compelled to.

Just to put it simply, if you think about a cruise vacation, there are many, many behind the scenes people that give you that complete vacation experience even if you don't directly interact with them.  Imagine if that person in the hallway wasn't there to vacuum?  Then people would complain the hallways are filthy.  Or the person in the public bathroom constantly wiping down counters and picking up the tissue mess that people leave behind?  If that person wasn't there, people would complain and say that things are unsanitary.  I personally think that they are all important in some way to giving us a better experience all together.  I'm looking at the big picture.  We don't have great cruises just because of the people we directly interact with.

Not trying to start an argument.  Just trying to view it from a different lens. ?

[monctonguy]

Its never ending..and if you tip the person vacuuming a hallway on the ship...then why aren't you doing that at the office you work at? Do u tip the person cleaning the floors at the supermarket making min wage and no tips?

 

That's the problem with the auto-grats and trying to cover everyone and justify it somehow, just because its a cruise.

 

And as for the comment a cpl above about being a percentage...YES, that's normally what and how a tip is done.

If the meal cost you $100, and 20% is what you tip...well that's not the same amount net to the server as tipping 20% on your $20 meal. I get that the person making the meal doesn't care what cabin your in or what you paid..but there has to be some logic to it.

 

Keep in mind, the dinning crew makes about $8million a year in tips on a cruise ship with an average of 2700 passengers......just doing the  simple math.

[Dawn T.]

47 minutes ago, Cez said:

However work might be more challenging in lower cost cabins with younger crowds. I'm saying this based on my experience seeing our teenage children inside cabin. I felt sorry for their cabin  attendant and left her additional tip in my kids habitat 

I did this too.  We took our youngest on Oasis for his high school graduation with 2 friends.  They all shared a boardwalk balcony.  We had to do some cabin shifting with my other son.  So cabin attendant was expecting 2 teens and got 3 teens.  Their cabin was a mess all week!  I tipped the guy up front and again at the end of the trip.  He was awesome!  The kids told me that he brought them pastries one morning!

[Cez]

26 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

If the meal cost you $100, and 20% is what you tip...well that's not the same amount net to the server as tipping 20% on your $20 meal. I get that the person making the meal doesn't care what cabin your in or what you paid..but there has to be some logic to it.

True but here everybody is eating the same meal   and paying more while in suites. Overall I agree that this system is sick and doesn't make much sense but this is becoming academic discussion. If we want to make changes, we could:

-          Contact RCL and express your dissatisfaction with current system

-          Boycott RCL and stop cruising or select cruise line that pays all their employees decent wages

-          Address this issue with politicians to enforce lines operating from US port to adhere to US labour standards.

 

What we SHOULD NOT do is to opt-out paying gratuities because THAT'S HOW CURRENT SYSTEM  WORKS and you’ll ONLY effect earnings of people who are working hard for you, while you enjoying your vacations.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Cez said:

True but here everybody is eating the same meal   and paying more while in suites. Overall I agree that this system is sick and doesn't make much sense but this is becoming academic discussion. If we want to make changes, we could:

-          Contact RCL and express your dissatisfaction with current system

-          Boycott RCL and stop cruising or select cruise line that pays all their employees decent wages

-          Address this issue with politicians to enforce lines operating from US port to adhere to US labour standards.

 

What we SHOULD NOT do is to opt-out paying gratuities because THAT'S HOW CURRENT SYSTEM  WORKS and you’ll ONLY effect earnings of people who are working hard for you, while you enjoying your vacations.

Could not agree more with your post, especially that last sentence.  I think this thread has raised some excellent points about fair wages and how gratuity should be handled.  Until that's changed, we still have to pay gratuities in the meantime.  I haven't seen anyone here suggesting otherwise, but I have seen that sentiment shared elsewhere on the internet and it's just plain wrong.

[twangster]

The hotel industry is an interesting comparison as is an all-inclusive land resort.

A hotel that includes breakfast for example.  Lots of people are required to keep the lights on, clean the pool, make breakfast, vacuum the halls and service the room.  No auto-gratuity.  Imagine the rage if hotels added even a $6 auto-gratuity per night, even if they reduced rates by $6.

How is it that Australian cruises can include the gratuity in the base fair yet the North American cruise market has grown into this scenario where they are separate and increase every year?  Is it really a bad thing?

It's hard not to question if they are funding increasing operating expenses beyond employee compensation by raising gratuity so that fares don't increase but in the end, what's the difference? 

If a cruise fare is $1,099 per person for a 7 night cruise this becomes $1,200.50 to our wallet after auto gratuity is added.  

If they charged $1,200.50 per person but didn't collect auto gratuity the impact to our wallet remains the same - $1,200.50.

Are we going to stop cruising if next year that becomes $1,207.50 per person?

At the end of the day the cost of a cruise is base fare plus gratuity.  At least now if service is truly terrible you can visit guest services and alter gratuity.  If they bundle it in and we pay it up front, that won't be an option.