Learning the importance of a subjective opinion...

[tallpaul86]

I go between here and Cruise Critic forums so that I’m immersed in the world of Royal Caribbean and Cruising in gene and reading everyone’s subjective take on things is the single most fascinating and yet totally whimsical (in the grand scheme of things of course) “short comings” that can happen

 

Yet despite this, I don’t normally tend to remember any the following day after reading them...  However this forum post on Cruise Critic has quite literally cemented itself that I just had to share it.  It is literally the best thing I’ve read in 2018 so far (if this is what cruisers deem as an expected standard for lines to uphold them the reviews themselves will make for entertaining reading!)

 

Below I have posted this “review” for you to see word-for-word - can provide links or screenshots for authenticity...  Have a guess as to why this has garnered over 200 replies  

[tallpaul86]

We chose this cruise because I'd cruised Royal Caribbean twice before, loved it, and have eagerly recommended it to others. Now I'm genuinely embarrassed that I've influenced others to choose Royal Caribbean.

Here's what concerns me.

 

THE HARD SELL

On Royal Caribbean, here's the first impression. Passengers embark to find crew barking at them to browse tables of plastic do-dads and cheap water bottles. I was completely taken aback by this. 

On Disney, passengers enter the ship to beautiful music playing. An announcer says excitedly, "Disney would like to welcome the SMITH family!" as uniformed crew members clap and cheer. The difference in the Royal Caribbean experience is jolting.

After our disconcerting onboarding experience, the hard sell got even WORSE. You could not take a step on the ship without crew interrupting your conversation with your spouse to loudly and aggressively hawk drink and dining packages. A terrible first impression for passengers.

Then it got worse. At the ship's "Welcome Event" in the Platinum Theater at 2:30 pm, the hard sell continued. There was no entertainment, no music, no comedy -- just a bare stage with crew in polo shirts hawking more things that passengers could buy. I'd brought a first time cruiser on this trip, and I was embarrassed.

The "hard sell" continued through the week, with crew members hawking their wares 12 hours per day from tables and storefronts on deck 5, where most passengers had to pass to get from one end of the ship to the other. 

The saddest thing about the "hard sell," though, was that the fun daytime activities I remembered from previous Royal Caribbean cruises were nearly all gone. Instead, each day's "Cruise Compass" was filled with shopping presentations, art auctions, and sales events urging us to spend more money. Come on, RC. Even an informal get-together for moms of teens in the "On the Air" Lounge would have been an improvement over that, and could have been done at a low cost with zero crew involvement.

When I asked crew members when Royal Caribbean changed from a very classy vacation experience to the continuous, barking hard-sell, they told me sympathetically that it had happened "in about the last six months" (since approximately September of 2016) when the cruise line's top management began putting extraordinary pressure on those below to increase revenue at all costs. How many passengers will RC lose before they realize that this strategy will not work? One of the biggest topics of conversation among the passengers was: "What's a better cruise line for us to chose next time? Which cruise lines are not doing this?" Next time, I'm trying Norwegian.

PARENTS WILL NOT HAVE SEX

If you are parents traveling with a child or teen, be aware that you will NOT HAVE SEX the entire week you are on Liberty of the Seas.

Unlike Disney, which thoughtfully puts the kids' bunks on the other side of a curtain from the parents' bed, Liberty has your child or teen(s) sleeping in a bunk directly above your heads. There is zero privacy for parents in bed. In addition, every time a teen shifts his weight in the upper bunk parents are awakened by loud squeaks and bangs.

Stateroom privacy for parents, even in small interior rooms, is doable and should be an A-1 priority on every cruise ship.

In addition, and very annoyingly, the corners of Liberty's king size beds butt directly up against the stateroom's cabinetry and couch. This makes it impossible to walk around the bed to the left and right side. Adults must crawl into bed from the foot of the bed. How are elderly and disabled people able to do this?

 

POORLY DESIGNED WINDJAMMER BUFFET

The crowds in the Windjammer Buffet on Deck 11 were downright scary, even for a healthy adult woman. I can't imagine how it felt for the 1000 children on board, or for the elderly or disabled. The problem was especially troublesome at the end of the buffet, where steam tables were set at odd angles to the buffet. The buffet traffic caught and swirled around these steam tables in such a way that passengers were hard-pressed to even SEE the food, let alone get close enough to spoon some onto a plate. Crowds clogged the narrow areas between these tables during all open hours. Imagine waiting with a plate of cold eggs until four people in front of you help themselves to bacon. Then do the same thing at the toast station. Because of the crowds, every meal eaten in the Windjammer includes cold food that was supposed to be served hot. 

This is the second 3,700 passenger ship I've cruised on. I much recommend 2,700 passenger ships, where crowding at meals is not such a terrible ongoing issue.

The saving grace of the Windjammer and the formal dining rooms was the dining staff. So friendly, so willing to serve, so prompt, so ready with coffee and whatever else was needed. I felt sorry for them.

 

BAD SHORE EXPERIENCE IN BELIZE

Imagine being told that tendering into Bellze takes 40 minutes, but you won't be allowed to leave the ship until 11:30 am. Do the math. If by a miracle there are no lines and you are able to arrive on Belize at 12:10 pm, you will still have to be back on the ship at 4:30 pm. You will have just about four hours to spend on Belize. But wait. You're told that the tenders are very busy between 3:30 pm and 4:30 pm. So you'd better be back by 3:30 pm. Now you have just three hours to spend on shore in Belize, in a place with NO BEACHES and little scenery.

I hastily switched my day's plan to an expensive Royal Caribbean shore excursion so I could guarantee that the ship wouldn't leave me behind at 4:30 pm. You can see my disappointed review of my Royal Caribbean shore excursion below.

 

VERY BAD ROYAL CARIBBEAN SNORKELING SHORE EXCURSION

I'd dreamed of snorkeling in Belize my whole life, and I was excited to take my 17-year-old son along. Sadly, on our guided tour snorkeling excursion of Rendevous Caye, there was sandy bottom and coral, but only cloudy water and almost no fish to be found. The guides leading the excursion tried to act as though this was NORMAL.  Snorkeling without fish was NORMAL.  When I asked a sympathetic assistant guide what the problem was, he said explained that Royal Caribbean had sent three tours of 140 people each to Rendevous Caye that day, and of course all those crowds had driven nearly every fish away.

My advice is DO NOT take a cruise shore excursion that features snorkeling. Crowds are incompatible with seeing beautiful fish. My best snorkeling was in Roatan, Honduras, where I asked a local taxi driver to help me find beautiful fish. He took me to "Paradise Beach" where I negotiated with a private boat driver to take us to "the blue channel" for some of the most beautiful clear snorkeling of my life, all at a fraction of the price of the Royal Caribbean snorkeling excursion.

 

PIANO BAR PIANIST KNEW VERY FEW SONGS

Piano bar pianist Phil Anderson knows a few songs very very well. He must have been great in his Royal Caribbean audition. He can play Billy Joel's "I'm Moving Out" very well. We heard it over and over again. But Phil is obviously not a singalong pianist. He asks for requests, but he doesn't know any Beatles, no James Taylor, no songs from Grease, and very few other commonly requested piano bar songs. To nearly every request he replies, "Try again." When he did play requests he frequently did not know even a fraction of the words.  Phil is clearly a gig musician who has memorized a small number of songs and is simply not interested in expanding his repertoire. Someone needs to tell him that it's possible to get a "fake book" for his iPad and just pound out any song anyone asks for, and that the words to every song ever written are readily available online.

This was a real disappointment to me, a person who loves to sing along in the piano bar.

 

TEEN ACTIVITIES STAFF WAS DISAPPOINTING

My 15-year-old daughter laughed at our dinner table about how enthusiastic and fun the teen staff was the night their supervisor sat in. That night, the staff were up and dancing alongside the kids, having a great time. The rest of the time, she said, they pretty much sat and watched the kids. A far cry from what Disney does for teens. 

And the much touted flowrider, ice skating rink, and rock wall? My teens didn't even ask me to sign their liability waivers for those activities.

 

"MY TIME DINING" MEANS "NO TIME DINING."

 

I wasn't aware that I needed to make a dinner reservation in the main dining room for each night. By the time I figured it out, all the times were taken.  The only times left to eat resulted in our party of 5 missing sunset up on deck and the headliner show each night.  Our poor waitstaff ran frantically, but still took 2.5 hours to serve us our meal each night because of being so overwhelmed with diners. Don't get me wrong -- the servers were all WONDERFUL especially Dane Aaron in the Rembrandt Dining Room. It's the timing of meals that needs improvement on Liberty.

 

WHAT I LOVED ABOUT LIBERTY OF THE SEAS

 

The staff was consistently wonderful. Every server, the dining room captain, and my dear, dear stateroom attendant Willeed from Egypt were all fantastic. I also loved the gym and the sauna and showers, and the beautiful hot tubs and comfy brown chairs in the solarium on Deck 11. The Viking Crowne Lounge was beautiful, the food and decor was fantastic in the Rembrandt dining room, and the Cruise Director was very funny in the Love and Marriage Game Show.

 

But sadly, it's my last time on Liberty. And it's the last time I'll be recommending Royal Caribbean to my friends and family

[Lovetocruise2002]

There is only one response to this...and many others on CC...SMH ??‍♀️

[princevaliantus]

Wow!! Sad to say, but very true. I just got back from the Rhapsody over the holidays and I can truly say that review was spot on on the "hard sell" from boarding to disembarkation. My solution ... ignore and keep walking. If you are conversing with someone and you get rudely interrupted, do what I did. I turned and stated, "didnt your mother ever tell you to excuse yourself when there are adults present?"  It TOTALLY  confuses the "crap on a cracker" out of them! ??

[F1guynz]

Gotta love cruise critic and peoples world view

This is the subject line for the cruise after ours on Ovation.

 

If they are such big fans for RCI who cruise 3-4 times a year why are they only platinum.

[Gears]

Click 'Next'...

[twangster]

Interesting second paragraph.  

Guess it shows each cruise line is better for some activities compared to others.  Apparently Disney is a better cruise line for SEX.  Walt would be proud.

[Lovetocruise2002]

6 minutes ago, twangster said:

Interesting second paragraph.  

Guess it shows each cruise line is better for some activities compared to others.  Apparently Disney is a better cruise line for SEX.  Walt would be proud.

Omg....I was trying so hard to be polite and wait for someone to make a comment about this before I jumped in. I laughed so hard at this comment because hubby and I have always said Disney must be the worse for this!!  Really?!  Your kids are just on the other side of the curtain. I hardly call that privacy lol! At least RC price point is affordable enough that you could get 2 connecting rooms and hope for some privacy.  In fact, I've paid less for 2 connecting rooms on RC than 1 on Disney!  It's entertaining reading for sure! ?

[twangster]

13 hours ago, F1guynz said:

Gotta love cruise critic and peoples world view

This is the subject line for the cruise after ours on Ovation.

 

If they are such big fans for RCI who cruise 3-4 times a year why are they only platinum.

Any time anyone starts a review with their status, whether it's an airline forum, cruise line forum or hotel forum or whatever forum you know it can be ignored.

Not only are they Crown and Anchors members, but they are also Platinum members on Royal!  I'm impressed.  

[Guest toodle68]

Reviews are important these days and I rarely purchase anything without significant research..  but reading reviews is an art form though to get the real benefit. I always look for those reviews from people that sound and write like me instead of those snotty "everything must be perfect and everyone must bow and grovel at my feet" reviewers. Those reviews where the smallest thing irritates them to be point they nearly explode.. or those who obviously did not research something ahead of time and are angry that something is not what they expected. 

The selling of items when you first walk in is definitely something RC should change, but it does not bother me personally. We just smile and say no and walk on. No one chases after you. In the WJ, people walk around but a polite no and they move on.. so I don't agree this is a 'hard' sell. It isn't. Would I prefer my WJ experience is not interrupted by seeing people approaching to sell me something? sure.. but it's not the end of the world for me or our vacation.

 

[tallpaul86]

9 hours ago, twangster said:

Interesting second paragraph.  

Guess it shows each cruise line is better for some activities compared to others.  Apparently Disney is a better cruise line for SEX.  Walt would be proud.

This guy gets it!!

 

Clearly Disney cruises cost more and must include complimentary therapy sessions form your children when they realize a privacy curtain isn't sound proof and therefore not all that private!! #Ewwwww

[mamabdw]

I generally look at CC reviews as a form of satire. 1-star reviews are hardly ever worthy of an actual 1-star rating. Most of the reviews are full of ridiculous assumptions about what cruising has been/should be, or weirdly specific incidents or quirks. It would be nice to get actual opinions about the highs and lows of specific ships or itineraries but it's pretty rare to find actual substance in reviews on most sites.

 

As for the "hard sell" aspect of RC cruising....whatever. Honestly, I just say no and move along. It's not a vacation ruining experience. Not even going to touch the rest of that lady's review

[princevaliantus]

1 hour ago, mamabdw said:

I generally look at CC reviews as a form of satire. 1-star reviews are hardly ever worthy of an actual 1-star rating. Most of the reviews are full of ridiculous assumptions about what cruising has been/should be, or weirdly specific incidents or quirks. It would be nice to get actual opinions about the highs and lows of specific ships or itineraries but it's pretty rare to find actual substance in reviews on most sites.

 

As for the "hard sell" aspect of RC cruising....whatever. Honestly, I just say no and move along. It's not a vacation ruining experience. Not even going to touch the rest of that lady's review

tallpaul86 is a lady????? LOL!!

[WAAAYTOOO]

1 hour ago, mamabdw said:

As for the "hard sell" aspect of RC cruising....whatever. Honestly, I just say no and move along. It's not a vacation ruining experience.

^  ^

No kiddin' !  Just say "no, thank you" and move on.  I have never understood those people that get so spun up about this.  It doesn't affect me at all.  Same thing with the spa.  Since I KNOW they are going to try and sell me something, I just let them know up front that I will NOT be purchasing anything and don't waste both of our time.  They are pretty good about just skipping the sales pitch.  If they still try, I just shut them down immediately and that usually works.  Walking out the door also works.

[mamabdw]

7 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

tallpaul86 is a lady????? LOL!!

WOOPS. I assumed since they made the comment about the meeting for moms of teens or whatever that this was the wife. I'm obviously a great reader

[Lovetocruise2002]

35 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

tallpaul86 is a lady????? LOL!!

@tallpaul86 cut and pasted something he read on Cruise Critic and that review was made by a lady.  

[Traveler]

I learn very fast to ignore most of the reviews in CC.

For some reason many people over there  tend to give detailed review only if its a bad review as a way to "revenge" about mostly some very small things.

Yes, there are many things to improve in RC but if I would go by the reviews of Voyager of the seas for example I would avoid taken one of the best cruise we had in south  Asia.

Per many of the reviews the ship is a wreck which must be fully refurbished and its a wonder how it still floating. the reality was very very far.

 

 

 

  

[ellcee]

4 hours ago, toodle68 said:

Reviews are important these days and I rarely purchase anything without significant research..  but reading reviews is an art form though to get the real benefit. I always look for those reviews from people that sound and write like me instead of those snotty "everything must be perfect and everyone must bow and grovel at my feet" reviewers. Those reviews where the smallest thing irritates them to be point they nearly explode.. or those who obviously did not research something ahead of time and are angry that something is not what they expected

This is exactly what I do.

 

15 hours ago, tallpaul86 said:

PARENTS WILL NOT HAVE SEX

If you are parents traveling with a child or teen, be aware that you will NOT HAVE SEX the entire week you are on Liberty of the Seas.

...but...but...but...I mean, unless your kids are babies or you get separate rooms isn't this a given?

[UkuleleCruiser]

I am cruising The Liberty on February 4th. I cruised her in.....2016? You can check my signature to be sure. The last time aboard, I experienced none of the issues this reviewer had. I had other issues with the ship, but most of my issues were with the Galveston Port Authority. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if there is a noticeable change this cruise. Frankly, I doubt it. I suspect this cruise will be even more enjoyable then my last. YMMV.

[ellcee]

I know I'm stuck on this, so apologies, but I just realized her daughter is 15.

 

I'M SORRY YOU CAN'T HAVE SEX BECAUSE THERE IS NO CURTAIN IN YOUR ROOM. Also, you guys can do it with just a curtain separating you from your 15 yo?

[Lovetocruise2002]

Just now, ellcee said:

I know I'm stuck on this, so apologies, but I just realized her daughter is 15.

 

I'M SORRY YOU CAN'T HAVE SEX BECAUSE THERE IS NO CURTAIN IN YOUR ROOM. Also, you guys can do it with just a curtain separating you from your 15 yo?

No! Eww!  Mood killer! lol 

I'm still stuck on this too! 

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, Sabrinaklai said:

No! Eww!  Mood killer! lol 

I'm still stuck on this too! 

 

12 minutes ago, ellcee said:

I know I'm stuck on this, so apologies, but I just realized her daughter is 15.

I'M SORRY YOU CAN'T HAVE SEX BECAUSE THERE IS NO CURTAIN IN YOUR ROOM. Also, you guys can do it with just a curtain separating you from your 15 yo?

I'm right there with you.  As my kids grew up we went on cruises, we flew to destinations and stayed in hotels room, we camped in motorhomes.  Knowing the kids were within earshot removed any notion of burning off a few extra calories in bed.  Has DCL patented sound blocking curtains?

[Lovetocruise2002]

20 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

I'm right there with you.  As my kids grew up we went on cruises, we flew to destinations and stayed in hotels room, we camped in motorhomes.  Knowing the kids were within earshot removed any notion of burning off a few extra calories in bed.  Has DCL patented sound blocking curtains?

Out of reactions ?

Imagine that?  Then they could charge even more for their already ridiculous priced cruises.

[joost]

14 hours ago, twangster said:

Interesting second paragraph.  

Guess it shows each cruise line is better for some activities compared to others.  Apparently Disney is a better cruise line for SEX.  Walt would be proud.

thats logica disney needs new teen to go to their amusements parks ;)

[Ray]

you have to wonder though. if she had managed to get her leg over during the cruise would the other things have been so bad? Was it simply the lack of sex that annoyed her the most and because of this everything was escalated?

[twangster]

I wonder if next year the USA Today cruise awards will have a new category for "Best Cruise Line for Sex".  Knowing USA Today Carnival will get it...

[Todd W]

On 1/10/2018 at 12:55 PM, Ray said:

you have to wonder though. if she had managed to get her leg over during the cruise would the other things have been so bad? Was it simply the lack of sex that annoyed her the most and because of this everything was escalated?

ok i've made one post on this forum prior to this,  but this one brought me out of hiding as i was laughing my head off.   I totally agree!  sounds to me like she needed something else to focus on.   

[twangster]

Reading this thread again this morning a lightbulb went off.  It's very self-serving for Disney to make it easier for parents to have sex. 

It maintains a steady stream of new kids on the way to keep their business interests going for years to come. 

Well planned DCL!  Your level of attention to all details is truly amazing!

[Lovetocruise2002]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Reading this thread again this morning a lightbulb went off.  It's very self-serving for Disney to make it easier for parents to have sex. 

It maintains a steady stream of new kids on the way to keep their business interests going for years to come. 

Well planned DCL!  Your level of attention to all details is truly amazing!

Looks like @ellcee and I are not the only ones that can't get past this! ?

[ellcee]

3 hours ago, Sabrinaklai said:

Looks like @ellcee and I are not the only ones that can't get past this! ?

That poor 15 year old.

[DunkelBierJay]

On 1/9/2018 at 10:11 PM, twangster said:

Any time anyone starts a review with their status, whether it's an airline forum, cruise line forum or hotel forum or whatever forum you know it can be ignored.

Not only are they Crown and Anchors members, but they are also Platinum members on Royal!  I'm impressed.  

I completely agree. If they were Platinum Crown & Anchor Members, they would have written it that way.

This is a really entertaining thread, btw...thanks to @tallpaul86

[DunkelBierJay]

Regarding the HARD SELL part, they must have issues with saying no to people and then passively aggressively trash them afterwords...and I wonder if they ever walked through a Caribbean port and what do they do in some of those locations.

[Ray]

There was a show on UK television last week which follows a cruiseship for weeks, it is a Princess ship that they are filming and the HARD SELL is on there also its not just RC that it happens. Every company not just cruiseships and no matter the industry wants to get extra £££££££ or $$$$$$$$. The show highlighted the fact that Staff have set targets to reach, be it for excursions, drinks packages or anything else they can sell at over the top prices to passengers, obviously not hitting targets can be seen as not doing their job properly as it would in any place of work. If a car salesman continually fails to hit their target they may find themselves looking for a new job, those doing the hard sell on ships are in the same position, failure to hit targets may result in no new contract. 

[tallpaul86]

I’m glad to see this thread is entertaining folks as much as it made me spit out my drink whilst reading it!!

 

on the up selling point, are people who board cruise ships THAT terrified of crew members offering stuff?  I mean the crew members who are up selling things are, in my opinion, timid and rather gentle in their approach...  I mean it’s not like I’m in the Windjammer and then the Izumi man rushes in, throws my plate away and shouts at me to buy Izumi Sushi until I’m verbally submitted to saying Yes

 

its amazing in 2018, the word No is so difficult to say

[Guest toodle68]

I think that the term ‘hard’ sell is incorrect in this regards. It’s a soft sell. They ask/offer, you say no, and they walk on or leave you alone. Has anyone ever had a rc person chase them down and ask why will you not buy this product and continue to harass you?

[Traveler]

Regarding the "hard sell" usually it dose not bothers me (beside the one in the SPA) as I look on it the same as I look on free app I am using. 

Usually free app will come with some commercial which you can drop if you pay for the app. The same in cruise , if I want to cruise without the hard sell I will choose to cruise with real all inclusive cruise line which will cost me much more ... 

Same for TV channels  ... 

I know that because of the extra sell effort  RCL (and other) can offer cruise cheaper and now more people can enjoy it and more people can enjoy it multiple times and not has one time live event.   

[Matt]

Regarding the upsells, over last few cruises (let's say last 6 months), I've noticed they've really scaled back on hard sells. No more coming to Windjammer tables or MDR tables and trying to sell packages, and even less roaming waiters trying to sell it.