From Reddit / Prepaid gratuities are deducted from RCI pay obligations instead of increasing employee pay.

[Cez]

I found somewhat disturbing post on Reddit. I thought that prepaid gratuities are increasing employee net income. OP suggested that prepaid gratuities decreasing RCI salary obligations and are part of guaranteed salary, therefore they are directly benefiting RCI, not employees
Is that correct?

 

[ScottD]

I actually saved this picture, as well. That is certainly what this appears to show. They keep the tips, then the line pays the difference to equal the guaranteed salary. NOW, not sure if that's the case with everyone- to me this looks like a bartender. Is this how it works with the pre-paid tips as well, who knows. But this will definitely make some people think twice about the gratuities, because this absolutely shows that the tips are subsidizing the cruise lines salary

[DDaley]

Wow I hope everyone I’ve tipped in cash just pockets it without mentioning it to Royal! This is awful.

[smokeybandit]

There has to be more to it. Note at the bottom there's a "regular salary" line that's empty in this case. And if this was true across the board, we'd have heard of it before.

 

I'd like to get a copy of the CBA that most crew work under.

[smokeybandit]

Here's Costa's CBA. It references a guaranteed minimum if you have to be terminated for non-cause reasons (like the ship is sold)

 

https://www.usclac.it/wp-content/uploads/Collective-Bargaining-Agreement-COSTA-CROCIERE.pdf

 

Here's one from Carnival mentioning a guaranteed minimum for probationary employees

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/619496703/contracts-Mustika

 

 

[smokeybandit]

Some info here, but still doesn't answer all the questions.

 

 

[smokeybandit]

This one suggests crew can earn more than the guaranteed minimum due to tips.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Cruise/comments/1b70htj/opting_out_of_gratuity/ktfxk5b/

[LTR]

So they are saying that "C" class employees are bar staff, waiters, servers, and casino dealers? Would be good to have clarification on what jobs they are talking about as the contracts (and tip distribution) seems to vary by position category. 

[wordell1]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

There has to be more to it. Note at the bottom there's a "regular salary" line that's empty in this case. And if this was true across the board, we'd have heard of it before.

 

I'd like to get a copy of the CBA that most crew work under.

I agree that this statement seems incomplete. I'm guessing this is more of a mid-month statement.

I also notice a pretty large discrepancy in what is paid for each cruise. $31.72 for one cruise and then $187 for the next one.  This doesn't make sense if it is sharing prepaid tips as they should be closer week to week.

Definitely need more info.

 

 

[Cez]

Interesting fact finding from ChatGPT

https://chatgpt.com/share/67216364-2540-8006-be34-05aace39973d

[RCIfan1912]

What caught me by surprise is CBA, Collective Bargaining Agreement? Cruise ship crew are in a laborer union? I had no idea but I wonder what the CBA does indeed contain? I am very familiar with CBA's. I'm glad we tipped extra cash on our last cruise. 

[ChessE4]

I don't believe Reddit is an authoritative source for pay policy, although I appreciate folks trying to share. We will continue to prepay gratuities and then tip cash for the excellent service we receive 90% of the time. And of course, for drink vouchers we use.

[smokeybandit]

3 hours ago, RCIfan1912 said:

What caught me by surprise is CBA, Collective Bargaining Agreement? Cruise ship crew are in a laborer union? I had no idea but I wonder what the CBA does indeed contain? I am very familiar with CBA's. I'm glad we tipped extra cash on our last cruise. 

From their annual report: 

Our shipboard workforce consisted of approximately, 88,700 employees, and as of December 31, 2023, approximately 88% were covered by collective bargaining agreements

[RCIfan1912]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

From their annual report: 

Our shipboard workforce consisted of approximately, 88,700 employees, and as of December 31, 2023, approximately 88% were covered by collective bargaining agreements

With all the talk of how horrible the job is, and badly they are treated it's interesting to me that they are covered by a CBA. Interesting info. 

[Leroyr55]

Seems like this has to be answered by RCL management. I believe Mr Bailey is on Facebook. Maybe he can clarify what we the customers are paying for with our gratuity. Hopefully this document is not correct. 

[smokeybandit]

37 minutes ago, Leroyr55 said:

Seems like this has to be answered by RCL management. I believe Mr Bailey is on Facebook. Maybe he can clarify what we the customers are paying for with our gratuity. Hopefully this document is not correct. 

The document is correct. But it's just part of the picture. RC wouldn't be such a popular place to work if they relied on tips just to pay their own salaries.

[DoomSlayer]

I don't see how this is different from current standards in the US.  Under US Federal Law, the absolute minimum wage of a tipped worker is $2.13 per hour.  The employer must see that the tipped worker receives a true minimum wage of $7.25 per hour but can use the tips received by the tipped worker as part of that compensation.  If the tips received by the tipped worker are less than $5.12 ($7.25 - $2.13), then the employer must make up the difference.  This happens every time we go to a restaurant where tipping is expected, tip our valet drivers, or tip the hotel bell hop.  The customer is expected to help pay the wages of the tipped worker, it is part of our culture.  Granted, this is Federal Law, and State laws may raise these minimums to something higher, but the principal is still the same.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess this is probably what we are seeing here.  Nothing odd, nothing out of the ordinary, and nothing to cause a panic about -- same practice as we are already used to in the US.  RCL operates as a Liberian company and its vessels are registered in the Bahamas, so I am sure the minimums are lower than US standards, but still fair, or even more than, what the tipped worker would receive in their home country.  Also, I would assume the CBA defines these minimums and provides better protections than Liberia or the Bahamas do.

These are the guidelines from the US Department of Labor for reference: Fact Sheet #15: Tipped Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) | U.S. Department of Labor

I wish we had a copy of the RCL CBA referenced in the picture to validate my assumptions, but I am going to guess my assumptions are probably correct.

Moral of the story -- Don't withhold tipping as it will almost certainly impact tipped workers' livelihoods.

[Cez]

On 10/31/2024 at 12:41 AM, DoomSlayer said:

 

Moral of the story -- Don't withhold tipping as it will almost certainly impact tipped workers' livelihoods.

No one is talking about withholding tips. Just wondering if removing automatic gratuities and replacing them with the same amount of cash tips is more beneficial for those hard working individuals 

[Mike n Ky]

This reminds me of my time in retail sales...in another state far, far away, a long, long time ago, when men were men...anyway...we were paid hourly, but we also had a quota and there were no commissions on sales until we passed that number. It wasn't a fair system because other stores with much higher volume easily reached the mark. Looking at the recent changes in auto added tips it has increased by about 50% over the past few years. It's one thing if that is added to wages, another if it's a quota system and worse if it's just a way for RC get hires then increase profits by raising tips and using that to cut their costs. As Cez responded above I am reconsidering the amount of auto tipping and looking more at the cash. I can set my auto, or tell them a set figure, at any amount I want and then I can always add more to my cash tips.

[DoomSlayer]

4 hours ago, Cez said:

No one is talking about withholding tips. Just wandering if removing automatic gratuities and replacing them with the same amount of cash tips is more beneficial for those hard working individuals 

That is withholding tips from those in the tip pool you don't interact with regularly.  Automatic gratuities extend beyond just your room steward and dinning staff.  They go all the way to the laundry person, who I am extremely grateful for.  Don't stop paying automatic gratuities.

[DunkelBierJay]

This is a fascinating thread...it leads me to believe Royal should change the terminology from Gratuities to Service Fee to be cleaner in their practices. Make the Service Fee a line item on the contract and be done with the wild swings that people object to.

19 hours ago, Cez said:

Interesting fact finding from ChatGPT

https://chatgpt.com/share/67216364-2540-8006-be34-05aace39973d

When I read this excerpt from the ChatGPT response, I had a moment of rage.

Quote

In essence, the “gratuities” that passengers pay aren’t an optional bonus but more of an indirect way for guests to cover crew wages, with Royal Caribbean filling in gaps when necessary. This structure benefits the cruise line by shifting part of the labor costs to passengers and creating a perception of tipping, though it’s essentially built-in compensation.

Just like their marketing, I get weary of the games Royal plays to show these huge profits when services are being taken away. One I'd like to see come back is turn down service...in that case, I assume Royal would require more crew and fewer staterooms per attendant.

[LTR]

5 minutes ago, DunkelBierJay said:

When I read this excerpt from the ChatGPT response, I had a moment of rage.

I didn't know we were going to a Large Language Model to get us answers about gratuities?

[TXcruzer]

On 10/30/2024 at 8:22 PM, smokeybandit said:

From their annual report: 

Our shipboard workforce consisted of approximately, 88,700 employees, and as of December 31, 2023, approximately 88% were covered by collective bargaining agreements

 

On 10/30/2024 at 8:26 PM, RCIfan1912 said:

With all the talk of how horrible the job is, and badly they are treated it's interesting to me that they are covered by a CBA. Interesting info. 

You can read up on the crews rights and salary guarantees here as well as the CBA

 

https://www.itfseafarers.org/en

[TXcruzer]

21 hours ago, DunkelBierJay said:

This is a fascinating thread...it leads me to believe Royal should change the terminology from Gratuities to Service Fee to be cleaner in their practices. Make the Service Fee a line item on the contract and be done with the wild swings that people object to.

When I read this excerpt from the ChatGPT response, I had a moment of rage.

Just like their marketing, I get weary of the games Royal plays to show these huge profits when services are being taken away. One I'd like to see come back is turn down service...in that case, I assume Royal would require more crew and fewer staterooms per attendant.

It isn't just Royal, but all the mainstream lines.  Princess posted recently that the pool their tips across the entire fleet, not just the ship you or sailing on

[PhantomWolf]

I oftentimes get confused by a lot of numbers and names of things, I'm a simple man but this I know to be true: Cash. Is. King.

[Wheeler825]

On 10/31/2024 at 9:55 AM, DunkelBierJay said:

This is a fascinating thread...it leads me to believe Royal should change the terminology from Gratuities to Service Fee to be cleaner in their practices. Make the Service Fee a line item on the contract and be done with the wild swings that people object to.

When I read this excerpt from the ChatGPT response, I had a moment of rage.

Just like their marketing, I get weary of the games Royal plays to show these huge profits when services are being taken away. One I'd like to see come back is turn down service...in that case, I assume Royal would require more crew and fewer staterooms per attendant.

I agree, its always the same games with Royal (and other lines).  Then in these threads its always the bootlickers screaming "Oh, I tip twice my annual salary every time I cruise!"

[Cez]

On 10/31/2024 at 10:21 AM, DoomSlayer said:

That is withholding tips from those in the tip pool you don't interact with regularly.  Automatic gratuities extend beyond just your room steward and dinning staff.  They go all the way to the laundry person, who I am extremely grateful for.  Don't stop paying automatic gratuities.

I have a problem with that approach. If you stay in hotel and tipping housekeeper do you also tip laundry person or cleaners?

Even in North America insane tipping culture, tips are for people who interact with you directly and provide you with expected or elevated level of service. 
Royal approach is changing tipping into subsidizing salaries for people I never interact with. 

[smokeybandit]

47 minutes ago, Cez said:

I have a problem with that approach. If you stay in hotel and tipping housekeeper do you also tip laundry person or cleaners?

 

Do we really know where those tips go though? Maybe some do go to back of the house people and/or other housekeepers.

[TXcruzer]

4 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Do we really know where those tips go though? Maybe some do go to back of the house people and/or other housekeepers.

I can not remember a time that I ever tipped a hotel housekeeper. 

[smokeybandit]

6 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

I can not remember a time that I ever tipped a hotel housekeeper. 

Neither have I, especially with so many hotels allowing you to opt out of daily cleanings if you have a multi night stay.  But it's becoming more and more common that there's some sign in the room now that asks for a tip.

But I have worked in restaurants in my younger years where dishwashers got a cut of the tips.

[DoomSlayer]

5 hours ago, Cez said:

I have a problem with that approach. If you stay in hotel and tipping housekeeper do you also tip laundry person or cleaners?

Even in North America insane tipping culture, tips are for people who interact with you directly and provide you with expected or elevated level of service. 
Royal approach is changing tipping into subsidizing salaries for people I never interact with. 

I bet you have tipped the dishwasher, cook, and even the laundry person at a hotel and never even knew it.  It is common in restaurants to pool tips and distribute them to all employees that are not managers or the owner.  Same for the Hotel and Hospitality industries.  If an employee receives a cash tip in such a location and does not place it in the tip jar at a business that has a tip pooling policy, it can be a reason for termination.  This practice happens all the time in the US and is very much part of our culture.

Even in other similar industries, like casinos, this is normal.  With the exception of a handful of Vegas casinos, most casinos pool all the tips and the tips are shared between the dealers, wait staff, and people behind the door pouring your "free" drinks and washing the used glasses.

[smokeybandit]

Some interesting info in here, all good info.

[Ampurp85]

That was a cute, wholesome read. 

[RCIfan1912]

Wow awesome. I actually took a pic of our waiter and assistant last time on Liberty in October to mention in the survey and now I'm glad I did that. They were both amazing. 

[BXcruiser]

That was a great read. I alway make sure to write down the names of staff that I want to acknowledge on the survey. Also regarding gifting alcohol, when we were on Oasis last year I gifted a crew member a bottle of wine that I brought onboard but never opened. She had to get her supervisor to approve it before she could accept it (I'll actually be back onboard in a few weeks and bringing her another bottle lol). 

[Eighty8]

Here's my comment/question on this. 

 

This is apparently from a bartender type position. Well every drink purchase has a gratuity added (or drink package does). So can we assume that the gratuities listed here are based upon actual drinks run through the system for each cruise?

 

Not sure how well this applies across the board to other positions. 

[frazer17]

On 11/5/2024 at 5:10 PM, Cez said:

I have a problem with that approach. If you stay in hotel and tipping housekeeper do you also tip laundry person or cleaners?

Even in North America insane tipping culture, tips are for people who interact with you directly and provide you with expected or elevated level of service. 
Royal approach is changing tipping into subsidizing salaries for people I never interact with. 

True, in the UK the general view among those I socialise with, is that you don't tip someone for just doing their job (like bringing me a plate of food, pouring me a drink etc), but if they add a bit of personality or go a bit above and beyond. That is when they should get a tip to show them you appreciated their efforts.

[wordell1]

8 minutes ago, frazer17 said:

True, in the UK the general view among those I socialise with, is that you don't tip someone for just doing their job (like bringing me a plate of food, pouring me a drink etc), but if they add a bit of personality or go a bit above and beyond. That is when they should get a tip to show them you appreciated their efforts.

Thats the way it is throughout Europe and while I do actually prefer it, it's just not that way in the US and not on Royal Caribbean.

[Doug_Texas]

1 hour ago, frazer17 said:

True, in the UK the general view among those I socialise with, is that you don't tip someone for just doing their job (like bringing me a plate of food, pouring me a drink etc), but if they add a bit of personality or go a bit above and beyond. That is when they should get a tip to show them you appreciated their efforts.

I completely agree.  Americans have screwed everything up and left customers in many transactions totally confused.  Only in America can you stand in line at a fast food restaurant or a concession line at a stadium or ballpark only to find a 20% gratuity is expected and often a default value when they spin the LCD display around.

I used to feel generous leaving good gratuities in envelopes and handing it to the people providing cabin or food / beverage service.  Royal saw fit to charge customer gratuities either in advance or on the onboard account.  They leave customers with an odd feeling that they haven’t tipped when they have tipped 18%.  My view is this is exactly like a restaurant that charges all the extra charges like their “living wage adder”, Las Vegas concession fee for food & beverage, PLUS fixed 18% or 20% gratuities.  Gratuities paid.

I tip in cash for D+ vouchers and Prime drinks from the casino just because there is a lack of clarity in my mind regarding the gratuity status.  Beyond that what goes on between Royal and their employees with my 18% gratuities paid for daily gratuities, specialty restaurants, and beverage packages is none of my business.  

[Mike n Ky]

3 hours ago, Doug_Texas said:

I tip in cash for D+ vouchers 

We do as well as I believe it's the only 'comp' they get for delivering on that bene. As for the 18%, normally I will tip more than that for great service when dining out so I will add an additional tip if warranted and I can't recall the last time in a specialty restaurant where it was even a question. Since they have cut back to a single service each day and raised the daily tips fee it's so different than before. Less opportunity to meet and get to know your steward and on the last couple of cruises it's almost like they don't make the effort to do so. BUT, what has changed in their work load. I am going to ask our steward on our Icon cruise in 13 days,