How would RC respond to DCL's latest move to homeport their newest and largest ship in Singapore?

[lordbryan123]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/disney-cruise-line-ship-singapore-home-port-3381991

So DCL just announced that their newly acquired ship from Genting would be homeported in Singapore from at least 2025-2030.

This would be DCL's biggest and newest ship.

RC currently has Spectrum of the seas homeported in Singapore and i just don't see how any Quantum class or smaller ship can compete in the future, especially when it comes to family-friendly offerings. Sure, RC can focus on the casino and bring in older cruisers, but the bulk of families would definitely gravitate to DCL.

Living in Singapore, I've been waiting for an Oasis class for years to be homeported here. Could this finally be the time? Perhaps the upcoming Utopia? I'd settle for any existing ship too, even Allure without any upgrades xD

Thoughts?

[Matt]

This is DCL catching up, not they passing Royal.

Royal has been in Asia cruise market for years and has Spectrum of the Seas there. That's a pretty new piece of hardware.

Pre-Covid, the plan was for an Oasis Class ship there (Wonder) but the Chinese cruise market is still recovering in terms of re-opening.

[smokeybandit]

That half-built ship was designed for the Asian market to begin with, so no real surprise.

[Neesa]

DCL catching up, not passing....YES!

My personal perspective, my thoughts. We started sailing with DCL when our daughter was much younger, we are Platinum so we watched a transformation before our eyes. The price point far outweighed the offerings and by 2018 we were beyond bored (my humble opinion) We headed over to Royal and have sailed her ever since.

Albeit things are changing at Royal as far as costs going up & other things being cut our experience with Royal gives us joy at a much better price point. We just feel it makes more fiscal sense when you compare the two companies. (We will sail DCL new Wish ship this summer but I booked it day 1 at what I believed a fair price I am crazy curious about the new ship.) But I know it's a one and done type situation.

With Royal I'm at the Next Cruise desk and/or at my computer CC in hand on new itinerary release dates.  Be that as it may I think Royal does a better job of keeping things "fresh" where DCL does get mundane. Repeat guests are what a company needs to stay "a float, hahaha" and while kids are never in short supply I think the DCL pool shrinks due to the never changing product offerings as well as the price point. Royal is doing her best to go after the DCL crowd and if you have sailed recently, and now with Icon her sights are reaching that goal and making it happen.  

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that DCL homeport deal shrinks and Royal continues to make waves around the world. Oh boy I'm full of fun puns today!!

[WAAAYTOOO]

I agree with @smokeybandit.  I suspect that this was part of the sales agreement to buy the half-built ship.  Just a guess..

[SweetPea]

Agree with you 100%, @Neesa

We are Platinum as well on DCL and made some great friends on there because we used to pick the same cruise week every year. DCL gets so stale that one time i joked with the husband of one of our couple friends that the 2 of us could pretend to be married and kick some serious bum at their version of the Love & Marriage show. Their questions varied very little, and  there was even one year that a lazy cruise director for the adults did the L&M show twice in one week ... with the same questions. Trivia was rarely changed as well. 

And with how elaborate their stage shows are, they didn't change much either. 

We stopped sailing DCL in 2017 because their pricing just got stupid and it was the same old, same old. They're probably looking in a fresh market for new suckers, err, i mean a new batch of first time Disney cruisers who want to give the novelty a go.

[steverk]

It's always struck me that the Genting Dream is a bad fit for DCL and don't think it will be a big threat.

Much has been said about it being the largest ship in the world with 9000 passengers. It may have a huge capacity,  but is physically smaller than Oasis of the seas. How many of you call more people in less volume luxury?

Further,  DCL is known for family accommodations. But this ship is pretty far along to change the cabins. Therefore,  it won't have the DCL cabin perks like a split bathroom. 

Will it do ok in Singapore? Maybe.  Will it be a Royal killer? I doubt it. 

[DanielMallorca85]

1 hour ago, steverk said:

It's always struck me that the Genting Dream is a bad fit for DCL and don't think it will be a big threat.

Much has been said about it being the largest ship in the world with 9000 passengers. It may have a huge capacity,  but is physically smaller than Oasis of the seas. How many of you call more people in less volume luxury?

Further,  DCL is known for family accommodations. But this ship is pretty far along to change the cabins. Therefore,  it won't have the DCL cabin perks like a split bathroom. 

Will it do ok in Singapore? Maybe.  Will it be a Royal killer? I doubt it. 

9.000 passengers? Nope. 

"The new ship will have an estimated passenger capacity of about 6,000 with about 2,300 crew members."

[JasonOasis]

1 hour ago, steverk said:

It's always struck me that the Genting Dream is a bad fit for DCL and don't think it will be a big threat.

Much has been said about it being the largest ship in the world with 9000 passengers. It may have a huge capacity,  but is physically smaller than Oasis of the seas. How many of you call more people in less volume luxury?

Further,  DCL is known for family accommodations. But this ship is pretty far along to change the cabins. Therefore,  it won't have the DCL cabin perks like a split bathroom. 

Will it do ok in Singapore? Maybe.  Will it be a Royal killer? I doubt it. 

The capacity of Dream will come down by 300 passengers. 

Under Genting design most staterooms would have been extremely small.  What Disney has said is they will redesign many of the cabins making them bigger which will result in maximum capacity dropping down to around 6000 total guest.

[twangster]

I don't think the Singapore market is competitive in the same way like some other cruise markets.  It's a very different market so the dynamics are different.  

Disney is also an interesting option for a market that is highly influenced by gambling.  Will gamblers without a family choose the Disney experience for a gamblers getaway?  Will a gambling adult couple really care if the ship's whistle plays a Disney tune?  Without kids how much of a competitive threat is Disney?  They may be appealing to families with young children but what about families with teens or families where the kids are grown adults?  

With my kids grown and adulting now Disney has zero appeal to me.  Disney at twice the price of Royal has twice the negative appeal to me.  

Disney's cruise line's biggest problem is their very narrow target market which nearly always involves children.  Who goes on a solo Disney cruise as a grown adult?  Kind of creepy really.  Must love being around children, others people's children.   Count me out.  

DCL may barely dent Royal's market in Singapore.  Only time will tell.  

[smokeybandit]

41 minutes ago, twangster said:

Disney's cruise line's biggest problem is their very narrow target market which nearly always involves children.  Who goes on a solo Disney cruise as a grown adult?  Kind of creepy really.  Must love being around children, others people's children.   Count me out. 

Would Disney even try to keep this target market with this ship or will it be more targeted to the Asian gambling crowd?

[WAAAYTOOO]

Is this Disney ship going to have a casino ?  Their others do not, yes ?

[twangster]

42 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Would Disney even try to keep this target market with this ship or will it be more targeted to the Asian gambling crowd?

Abandon everything Disney except the name?  Sounds like a marketing disaster plan. 

[twangster]

50 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Would Disney even try to keep this target market with this ship or will it be more targeted to the Asian gambling crowd?

Looks like the regular Disney experience:

https://disneycruiselineblog.com/2023/03/singapore-revealed-as-the-future-home-port-for-disney-cruise-lines-global-dream-project/

The new ship will feature innovative Disney experiences along with the dazzling entertainment, world-class dining and legendary guest service that set Disney Cruise Line apart. Guests of all ages will find dedicated spaces and activities designed just for them, and families will create unforgettable memories with beloved characters such as Captain Mickey Mouse and Captain Minnie Mouse, Disney Princesses, Marvel Super Heroes and more.

 

 

[Montemy2419]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

I don't think the Singapore market is competitive in the same way like some other cruise markets.  It's a very different market so the dynamics are different.  

Disney is also an interesting option for a market that is highly influenced by gambling.  Will gamblers without a family choose the Disney experience for a gamblers getaway?  Will a gambling adult couple really care if the ship's whistle plays a Disney tune?  Without kids how much of a competitive threat is Disney?  They may be appealing to families with young children but what about families with teens or families where the kids are grown adults?  

With my kids grown and adulting now Disney has zero appeal to me.  Disney at twice the price of Royal has twice the negative appeal to me.  

Disney's cruise line's biggest problem is their very narrow target market which nearly always involves children.  Who goes on a solo Disney cruise as a grown adult?  Kind of creepy really.  Must love being around children, others people's children.   Count me out.  

DCL may barely dent Royal's market in Singapore.  Only time will tell.  

I think it would be funny for the cruisers finally getting on a Disney cruise being all excited only to find out that there is no Casino.  I can see the cruise line being popular in Singapore and the cruisers end up setting up their own underground Casino.  They get to have fun on a cruise while still gambling.

[Atlantix2000]

16 hours ago, twangster said:

Disney's cruise line's biggest problem is their very narrow target market which nearly always involves children.  Who goes on a solo Disney cruise as a grown adult?  Kind of creepy really.  Must love being around children, others people's children.   Count me out.  

Not sure about solo adults but there's definitely no shortage of adult Disney fans that go to the parks and cruise without kids.

[twangster]

15 minutes ago, Atlantix2000 said:

Not sure about solo adults but there's definitely no shortage of adult Disney fans that go to the parks and cruise without kids.

Sure.. in Florida.  Disneyland Tokyo hasn't worked out the same for them.  The Singapore cruise market is way different from Florida. 

[JasonOasis]

Disney in addition to Disneyland Tokyo also has Shanghai Disneyland Park which is part of the sprawling Shanghai Disneyland Resort, which is another reason i'm scratching my head at their decision to base this ship in Singapore and not Shanghai at the semi-newly construction Shanghai international port.  Disneyland Tokyo and Shanghai Disneyland Park do not have world wide appeal like Walt Disney World in Orlando but with over a billion people living in China Shanghai Disneyland Resort doesn't need to have world wide appeal. Disney over more than a decade has built their Shanghai resort into what it is today.

I get U.S. - China relations are in the best place right now and by all accounts are heading in the wrong direction, but this ship isn't being marketed to Americans.

I just don't understand the the Singapore link unless this is part of a larger plan to expand the Disney brand into Singapore using this ship.  However, because there is literally no space within the tiny country of Singapore to put a Disneyland Singapore or an even larger Disneyland resort Disney has come up with this bold idea to use Global Dream.  Since there is no space on land the ship becomes the vehicle Disney uses to expand their global reach and they finally will have a presence in Southeast Asia.

[Ray]

Could just be they picked Singapore because its an Airport Hub so easier for people to get to! 

[twangster]

Once Singaporeans see DCL pricing it might help RCI. 

Trying it once is one thing.  Filling a ship week after week is another matter.    

[Ray]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Once Singaporeans see DCL pricing it might help RCI. 

Trying it once is one thing.  Filling a ship week after week is another matter.    

Excluding Expats living in Asia, there are probably only 5 countries that side of the world that I can think of where cruising would be something the average household would consider as a possible vacation...Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Australia and New Zealand and for a lot of them cost will come into the equation because not everyone who cruises is a High Roller..

[TXcruzer]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:42 AM, lordbryan123 said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/disney-cruise-line-ship-singapore-home-port-3381991

So DCL just announced that their newly acquired ship from Genting would be homeported in Singapore from at least 2025-2030.

This would be DCL's biggest and newest ship.

RC currently has Spectrum of the seas homeported in Singapore and i just don't see how any Quantum class or smaller ship can compete in the future, especially when it comes to family-friendly offerings. Sure, RC can focus on the casino and bring in older cruisers, but the bulk of families would definitely gravitate to DCL.

Living in Singapore, I've been waiting for an Oasis class for years to be homeported here. Could this finally be the time? Perhaps the upcoming Utopia? I'd settle for any existing ship too, even Allure without any upgrades xD

Thoughts?

When the public sees the disparity in pricing, many will stick with Royal

[GatorCruiser]

Cause Royal is the best !!

[steverk]

On 4/1/2023 at 8:04 AM, Ray said:

Excluding Expats living in Asia, there are probably only 5 countries that side of the world that I can think of where cruising would be something the average household would consider as a possible vacation...Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Australia and New Zealand and for a lot of them cost will come into the equation because not everyone who cruises is a High Roller..

Let's not forget south Korea, Japan and maybe Indonesia. China has a fair number of families that can afford it, but the average Chinese can't. 

[twangster]

Ultimately Royal will place their ships where that asset can generate the most profit. Only Royal knows how easy, or hard, it has been making Spectrum profitable in Singapore.  That will be part of their decision making process regarding future Singapore deployment decisions. 

An airline picks the type of aircraft for a particular route with a desire to fill it flight after flight.  If they can fill a plane consistently they might consider a larger plane for that route.  If they can't they might consider a smaller plane for that route.  This concept is called "rightsizing".  

Cruise lines do the same but with other factors in the equation.  Adding capacity through a larger ship requires not only the ability to sell out the ship consistently, the business case may not support it if they think they can make more money with that ship homeported somewhere else.   It's not enough to make money if they can make more money with a different deployment choice.  "Rightsizing" the ship to the market will be a factor in the process.

DCL is a specialty boutique cruise line that caters to a very specific target consumer.   DCL will win some consumers in the market and those are consumers who are not booking a cruise on those dates on a Royal ship.  Even if that "win" is a one-time event or a repeating one, DCL will take some consumers out of the market.  If NCL, MSC or Carnival was the other cruise line that would be a different matter. Those cruise lines are not speciality lines.  They compete more directly with Royal and they would take many more consumers out of the regional market.

Cruisers will pick DCL if they want the Disney experience.  No ship in the world from any other cruise line is likely to stop that effect.  In this regard the DCL ship isn't going to force Royal into a response such as putting their newest ship in Singapore.  That's not to say Utopia isn't going there but if it does its unlikely DCL played a role.  If Utopia goes to Singapore it will be because that is the best strategic decision for that ship.