Casino Newb

[Christie]

So, I've barely stepped foot into a casino except to walk as quickly through it as possible to get to Sabor.  We are considering spending some time in the casino on Harmony, and I was wondering if anybody had some tips for a complete newbie.

Are there any sites/games you recommend to learn some of the casino games?  

What about casino etiquette?

Are there any special things about a casino on a ship vs a casino on land?  

Thank you in advance!  Matt, this should be a podcast episode.  I'm totally intimidated by the casino!  

[tiny260]

Christie, no sites that I'm aware of, there probably are but I've never searched for them. Etiquette is a different story, I think everyone has there own version, I do know that in Blackjack it is always courteous to ask the table before you site down if they mind, because if they are on a run and you sit down the cards are going to change, in reference to how they appear to the other players, they won't physically change. Maybe someone can chime in here, I play craps, not really a Blackjack player.

No differences that I know of between land and sea, they both don't have any problem taking your money. Make sure you use your Sea Pass card when on a slot machine and give it to the table boss when you sit down so they can record your activity, in case you ever want to take advantage of Club Royal.

Make sure you check in with the Casino hostess, tell them you are new and ask them to help you out. This also helps for the Club Royal.

Usually on sea days the casino will have "learning seasons" that you can go to and observe and ask questions, this is how I leaned to play craps (Talk about intimidated) times and days are listed in the cruise compass.

If you want to know about Club Royal, type it in to the search line for the forums and there is plenty to read and learn, WAAAYTOOO has a lot of input on these threads and I'm pretty sure doesn't mind answering questions (Speaking for her).

[Matt]

The two easiest games to learn are Roulette and Blackjack.  I recommend going in the day time, when the casino is less busy.  The dealers on RC are very friendly and will be happy to teach you the game.

I feel like etiquette is the toughest aspect of the table games. Certain games have nuances and traditions associated with game play, and if you don't follow them, it can result in some snide looks from your fellow gamers. By going in the daytime, there's less formality to it and a more open sense of learning.

Slots don't have nearly as much of the pomp and circumstance, although table games are definitely more fun to play (and they pay out quicker). 

Don't be afraid to simply stand around and watch others play.  It's a great way to pick up on strategies and understand the flow of the game.

[JLMoran]

If you want a quick intro to craps, keep on reading. Otherwise go ahead and skip to the next post. 

Side note before I start: Craps has some really funny myths when it comes to new players. "Craps virgins" are considered extra lucky and a lot of players will bet more when they know a brand-new player is at the table and making their first rolls. And they get treated a lot more nicely when it's known. So maybe advertise the fact. 

 

 

Craps is both intimidating and at the same time (to me, at least) one of the easier games in the casino to learn (as far as basic play). The table looks like something vomited up by a guy with a dice fetish, but for beginner play the only part you care about is the line marked "PASS". Ignore everything else about the table. Honestly I'm not a novice and I still just play the pass line. It's the simplest bet and (combined with the secondary "odds" bet, which I'll explain below) actually has odds that are sometimes in your favor. So this intro will just focus on pass line play.

I won't bore with you probability analysis about dice throws or odds of any given bet working. Just know that 7 is the most likely number to come up on any given roll of two dice, and the game is basically built around that.

Everyone gets a turn rolling the dice, moving clockwise around the table. Before a person makes their first roll, you place your bet on the pass line.

Once all bets are down, the player rolls. If they roll a 7 or an 11, that's an instant win and everyone gets paid, then a new round of bets go down and the player rolls again. If they roll 2 ("snake eyes"), 3, or 12, that's an instant loss and the next player gets a turn to throw.

If the player rolled any other number (4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10), that becomes their "point" and they start rolling the dice over and over until they roll the "point" again (win, payout) or they roll a 7 (lose, all bets lost, next player starts).

Thats really about it for the basics. The only additional part to be aware of is "taking your odds" after that first roll, when a "point" is set:

After a point is rolled, you have the option to put a second bet as a separate stack of chips behind the pass line. That second bet is usually allowed to be 2 or 3 times your original bet, but I read in another thread that RCI casinos limit you to just the original amount. It gets a little wonky when the point is a 6 or 8, because of how the payout is calculated, but just know that in this case you bet $6 for every $5 of the original bet.

Generally speaking, always take this secondary bet, as it improves your payout by more than the amount put in since a multiplier is applied to the bet based on the point that was rolled.

That covers all of the basics. Not as simple "just bet red" on roulette or "insert coin and pull handle" for slots, but roulette and slots have way crummier odds of winning than craps.

[WAAAYTOOO]

Christie, today there are so many simulation apps and online live games for learning to play table games.  I always recommend that if you're going to do it, learn the rules FIRST and find out what kind of odds the games have and how to maximize your chances.

There are lots of blackjack and poker websites.  Learn the rules first and THEN go to a casino.  Frankly, this is exactly how I learned to play poker !  I played online (not for money, of course) for probably a year before I actually had the guts to sit down at a table with real people.  If you learn the basics of poker then there are a lot of table games that are variations of standard poker.  You will have lots of options then !

There is certainly nothing wrong with going to the casino and asking for help.  It's just unlikely that you will do well (except for that old standard - beginner's luck - which never fails) unless you understand the basics of the game.

Matt and Tiny are right about the blackjack table.  Serous players do not like it when a rookie sits down and starts mucking up the table mojo.  I am not a blackjack player so I can say that.  LOL  Craps is a HOOT and I love playing but it is really not a game that you can just jump into without some basic knowledge of the game.  There are LOTS of ways to lose your money at craps.  It's a fun game though and can be very profitable if you know what you're doing.  Unfortunately, shipboard casinos (I have found this to be true on all of the lines I have sailed) typically only give you single odds behind the pass line so the casino is taking away a lot of your profit-making potential which completely sucks.

There are 2 reasons to play slots.  #1, there is no skill required.  There are a few basic rules (e.g., if you want the big money you MUST ALWAYS play max bet) but anyone can do it and it takes no time to come up to speed.  #2, if you are looking to qualify for VIP status, there is no faster way to do it than shoving big money into a slot machine for several days in a row.  Of course, you MUST be sure that they are "tracking" you which means that your seapass card must always be inserted into the machine whenever you play.

I typically flitter between the 3 card poker and the Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em Tables until a live cash [poker] game starts - which is generally only in the late evening unless you have a very unique poker crowd.  If I am bored or waiting for Dan I will sometimes sit down at a blackjack table if there are no serious players there.  I completely suck at BJ...I know the rules but I still ALWAYS lose.  That usually lasts about 2.5 minutes.

The real trick to becoming a VIP is being noticed and remembered by the casino host.  If they see you in the casino often, and you are familiar to them, they will remember you.  I know that there are quantitative ratings (points) but honestly, I ALWAYS spend the same amount of money and spend the same amount of time in any ship's casino and the times when the casino host is either elusive or too busy to take notice are the times when I get the fewest "rewards" (meaning cruise certificates).  On cruises where we get to know the hosts we always get the biggest certificates.  So say what you want to about points but who you know is where it's at (as it is with most things in life).  This is particularly true for table players like Dan and me.  If you are a big bucks slots player then the points speak for themselves.  There's no denying the points if you're playing slots.

[FManke]

4 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

If you want a quick intro to craps, keep on reading. Otherwise go ahead and skip to the next post. 

Side note before I start: Craps has some really funny myths when it comes to new players. "Craps virgins" are considered extra lucky and a lot of players will bet more when they know a brand-new player is at the table and making their first rolls. And they get treated a lot more nicely when it's known. So maybe advertise the fact. 

 

 

Craps is both intimidating and at the same time (to me, at least) one of the easier games in the casino to learn (as far as basic play). The table looks like something vomited up by a guy with a dice fetish, but for beginner play the only part you care about is the line marked "PASS". Ignore everything else about the table. Honestly I'm not a novice and I still just play the pass line. It's the simplest bet and (combined with the secondary "odds" bet, which I'll explain below) actually has odds that are sometimes in your favor. So this intro will just focus on pass line play.

I won't bore with you probability analysis about dice throws or odds of any given bet working. Just know that 7 is the most likely number to come up on any given roll of two dice, and the game is basically built around that.

Everyone gets a turn rolling the dice, moving clockwise around the table. Before a person makes their first roll, you place your bet on the pass line.

Once all bets are down, the player rolls. If they roll a 7 or an 11, that's an instant win and everyone gets paid, then a new round of bets go down and the player rolls again. If they roll 2 ("snake eyes"), 3, or 12, that's an instant loss and the next player gets a turn to throw.

If the player rolled any other number (4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10), that becomes their "point" and they start rolling the dice over and over until they roll the "point" again (win, payout) or they roll a 7 (lose, all bets lost, next player starts).

Thats really about it for the basics. The only additional part to be aware of is "taking your odds" after that first roll, when a "point" is set:

After a point is rolled, you have the option to put a second bet as a separate stack of chips behind the pass line. That second bet is usually allowed to be 2 or 3 times your original bet, but I read in another thread that RCI casinos limit you to just the original amount. It gets a little wonky when the point is a 6 or 8, because of how the payout is calculated, but just know that in this case you bet $6 for every $5 of the original bet.

Generally speaking, always take this secondary bet, as it improves your payout by more than the amount put in since a multiplier is applied to the bet based on the point that was rolled.

That covers all of the basics. Not as simple "just bet red" on roulette or "insert coin and pull handle" for slots, but roulette and slots have way crummier odds of winning than craps.

Looks like you've played a time or two, JL.

[JLMoran]

Just now, FManke said:

Looks like you've played a time or two, JL.

Yeah, craps is the only table game I play in a casino. I'd play Texas Hold'Em, but you either get rich players who can just bully bet you out, or stupid players who chase bets they should be folding on and wreck the draw for everyone else.

[FManke]

1 minute ago, JLMoran said:

Yeah, craps is the only table game I play in a casino. I'd play Texas Hold'Em, but you either get rich players who can just bully bet you out, or stupid players who chase bets they should be folding on and wreck the draw for everyone else.

It is the most independent of group games. If that makes any sense.

[JLMoran]

7 minutes ago, FManke said:

It is the most independent of group games. If that makes any sense.

Perfect sense. The outcome of any given bet isn't affected by the actions of anyone besides the person who throws the dice. Unlike blackjack / Pai Gow / hold'em / other card games where you're at the mercy of everyone knowing how to play "correctly". (and, one would hope rationally)

[FManke]

1 minute ago, JLMoran said:

Perfect sense. The outcome of any given bet isn't affected by the actions of anyone besides the person who throws the dice. Unlike blackjack / Pai Gow / hold'em / other card games where you're at the mercy of everyone knowing how to play "correctly". (and, one would hope rationally)

I used to work at a casino years ago and have seen a lot of bad behavior, even on a two dollar table. There are a lot of "experts" out there that are not afraid to voice their opinions, even over a two dollar bet. It can get pretty teste, at times.

[MikeK]

I usually play blackjack at the casinos because your odds are better at winning than the other games.  One thing I would highly recommend is to buy a "how to" book on blackjack before going to the casino.    The game of blackjack can be fun if you at least know the basics.  Not knowing the basics can really mess up the game for the other players at the table and I learned that the hard way.  After reading up the game and standing around watching have a seat and see how your luck goes.  If you get to a hand that your confused don't be afraid to ask the dealer "what does the book say to do on this?" , the dealer won't or can't tell you whether to take a card but will tell you what the book says to do.  You are playing against the dealer not the other players. 

[MikeK]

Also don't forget to tip the dealers!

[arebee]

Look in the cruise compass for the learn to play for the casino.  I would recommend roulette as a first game since its easy.

[JLMoran]

55 minutes ago, MikeK said:

I usually play blackjack at the casinos because your odds are better at winning than the other games.

Honest question here -- is that always true, or does it vary depending on how many decks are in the shoe? I saw that on at least some of the ships they have single deck blackjack, which might tempt me to try it again if the odds are better (and I could get a table without people insisting on hitting when they have 18 and the dealer is showing 6. )

[Matt]

The #1 reason I don't play blackjack is because of all the unsaid rules.  Some players get angry if you don't play "the proper way".

[CGTLH]

My go-to source when it comes to understanding the basics for table games is  https://wizardofodds.com

Key table games will be black jack, roulette, craps, and three card poker. Some ship will also have Let It Ride and Ultimate Texas Hold 'em (This is different from normal Texas Hold 'em. You are just playing against the dealer with restrictions on how you can bet.). Sure other ships have other games but these are the core ones.

Only catch that I'm a major victim of is the entire house edge thing and trying to stick with the best odds (no side bets). Trust me, if you don't play the "sucker bets" on some of the tables games you'll feel intimidated. Personally, I live with it and don't play them.

House edge, just means over time you should only lose x%. Example, if you sit down with $100 and the edge is 3%. In theory after cycling that $100 you should have $97. Thing is as you keep playing you keep cycling that original amount. If I'm trying to only play x amount as I will I'll separate those winnings. Once the buy in stack is gone I'll color up the winnings stack and leave, or that is the plan.

 

Final comment: This is a form of entertainment, not a method to get rich quick. Know your own limits and bet what you are willing to lose.

[WAAAYTOOO]

45 minutes ago, Matt said:

The #1 reason I don't play blackjack is because of all the unsaid rules.  Some players get angry if you don't play "the proper way".

...and of course, there really isn't as "proper" way.  Yes, there are [what MikeK refers to as "the book"] "best play" but even the professionals have differences of opinion on some of the more esoteric combinations.  Everyone just needs to chill and have fun.  If you're there to pay the rent then you're in the wrong place for the wrong reason.

[Christie]

This thread overwhelms me and I think I'll stick to the coin pushing machines ?

[JohnK6404]

I've always loved Blackjack... there is some strategy which I enjoy and the pace is slower than say playing Craps. Yes, it can be intimidating for a new player. I definitely agree that you should learn the basic rules, maybe play with family or friends first at home, before sitting at a table onboard (unless you have the courage to play alone at an empty table!). Or... as many suggested, try playing during the day at a $5 (if available) minimum table with family/friends first (so you don't get the stink eye from some crabby player).

I agree that the RC dealers are friendly and will, if asked, give you basic strategy (unlike some casinos on land). The one seat to absolutely avoid as a newbie is what they call "3rd base"... the seat to the right of the dealer from their perspective (farthest person left as you sit at the table facing dealer). The dealer deals clockwise around the table. That spot receives the last card(s) before the dealer has to turn over their cards and possibly draw. Some people get nasty if you take a card "when you shouldn't" that possibly could have busted the dealer if it turned out that they needed to draw. 

I prefer playing blackjack with a relatively full table and try to sit in the middle (like the few extra moments to decide what I'm going to do before the dealer gets to me). With a full table, the pace is more leisurely and you actually have time to think about what you have in front of you and what the dealer is showing! Maybe actually take a sip of your drink! When there are only a couple of people at the table, the pace can get a little frantic for someone new to the game.

[Matt]

11 hours ago, Christie said:

This thread overwhelms me and I think I'll stick to the coin pushing machines ?

They is to go with a friend. Next Group Cruise, let's hit the tables...you know, for "research"

[Christie]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

They is to go with a friend. Next Group Cruise, let's hit the tables...you know, for "research"

Done deal.  

[WAAAYTOOO]

Sept. 16 on Harmony.  I'm there !

[Christie]

7 hours ago, Matt said:

They is to go with a friend. Next Group Cruise, let's hit the tables...you know, for "research"

It would help if I had a group cruise booked. 

[Matt]

On 5/12/2017 at 5:03 PM, Christie said:

It would help if I had a group cruise booked. 

[firegal2539]

Christie,

You really need to try the slot machines at the ship's casino. If you are looking for a way to pay your mortgage off, probably isn't going to happen. I spend most of my time in the casino when on board and yes many people have rules they play by. When I play Blackjack, as someone else said, when you take your seat at the table, you do change the flow of the cards, so I always ask the people I sit in between, may I sit here. Most always say yes, but then you do have some that will ask me to wait until the reshuffle. I believe when a new player comes in it does change the cards. There are lessons during the day, not at night, the casino is too busy, and you can learn to play all of the table games. If you don't know how to play any of the games, I would recommend not sitting in the first or last seat at the table, especially Blackjack, 3 Card Poker, Texas HoldEm. If you are the last seat, it is up to you to break the dealer for the whole table. 

As Tiny said make your presence known to the Casino Manager, so you can be rated for the Casino Royal. I always seek out the manager on the first day of the cruise, give him my name and from there on I am treated very well. I don't seek out the host/hostess, only the manager.

Just try, you have nothing to lose but money.

Candie

[Christie]

4 hours ago, firegal2539 said:

Just try, you have nothing to lose but money.

LOL!  

Thank you for the tips :-) 

[abmcmurtrie]

The other great thing with the Oasis class ships is that the Casino has a "smoking" and "non-smoking" side, separated by the bar. So if you're not a smoker, you don't have to have someone else around you blowing it in your face.

[BillHoo]

Casino Tracking via Seapass card.

How much play time, throws, or money before you get some kind of comp?  I hear they don't have comp'd drinks either.

[WAAAYTOOO]

1 hour ago, BillHoo said:

Casino Tracking via Seapass card.

How much play time, throws, or money before you get some kind of comp?  I hear they don't have comp'd drinks either.

Well, there's plenty of controversy and disagreement on exactly what level of play you need in order to be a comped player.  I will not try and guess what dollar amount is required.  I think it's all voodoo (to refer to your earlier post).

Here's my opinion....based on nothing more than experience.  I believe that how LONG you play is really at least as important as how MUCH you wager.  I am not a big bet gambler but I am in the casino a LOT.  I rarely (as in almost never, ever) bet more than the minimum bets at a table but we spend almost every afternoon and evening in the casino and I have been a comped player since I started sailing with Royal - many years ago.  I suppose quantity can supersede longevity if the quantity is sufficiently high - if you're going to gamble big dollars for shorter periods of time, that may work just as well as small dollars over a longer period...but I cannot confirm that as I am not, and will never be, a high dollar gambler.

As I said earlier in this thread, I do believe that being known to the casino host (who makes all decisions regarding who gets comped and who does not) is vital - again, opinion.

There are lots of different kinds of comps.  Some people get bottles of wine, spa treatments and free diners at specialty restaurants.  I have received exactly 1 free dinner from the casino and that was on a transatlantic cruise.  I have never received wine or spa treatments.  I have received cash rebates but those days are over.  They no longer do that.  The most useful and welcome comps, for us, are the cruise certificates, which equate to either a free cruise from a list of highly undesirable ships and sail dates on their list or a cash equivalent dollars off of a cruise of your choice.  We use the dollar equivalent certificate discounts a lot.  You also may or may not qualify for special cruise rates on nearly all cruises.  These discounts amount to (generally speaking) 44 - 50% off the full retail price of a cruise (not the 30% off or whatever the current "sale" might be) and these low casino rates are combinable with the certificates so it can amount to quite a nice price.  An example.....our upcoming Grandeur cruise.   With combined casino rate and certificate discounts, we had an effective discount of 85% off the full retail price.  All but free, really...and it was a sailing of our choosing rather than one of the crappy ones they wanted to give us for "free".

Drinks.  Yes, Club Royale does offer their comped players free drinks in the casino.

[BillHoo]

So, in theory, I can put my towel on a slot machine, scan my Seapass card for the lowest bet possible and walk away and maybe come back several hours later?

 

[WAAAYTOOO]

28 minutes ago, BillHoo said:

So, in theory, I can put my towel on a slot machine, scan my Seapass card for the lowest bet possible and walk away and maybe come back several hours later?

 

Hey !  It could work !

[BillHoo]

3 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Hey !  It could work !

I think I've just invented a new way to be an annoying cruiser --- SLOT HOG!

Yes, you come upon an empty slot machine (except for a towel slung over the top).  No one has apparently been using it for hours.  You are about to scan your Seapass card and make a bet when an angry passenger confronts you - "Hey!  I was using that machine!  Can't you see the towel!"

[tiny260]

Sounds vaguely familiar, having a hard time remembering, something to do with the swimming pool...

[JLMoran]

2 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Here's my opinion....based on nothing more than experience.  I believe that how LONG you play is really at least as important as how MUCH you wager.  I am not a big bet gambler but I am in the casino a LOT.  I rarely (as in almost never, ever) bet more than the minimum bets at a table but we spend almost every afternoon and evening in the casino and I have been a comped player since I started sailing with Royal - many years ago.

How would that translate with slot play? If the typical table minimum is $10 (or $5 on some ships), do you need to make the same kind of bet on the slots for the same duration? Or do they rate slots differently since the rate of play is so much faster / you make WAAAY more bets in the same amount of time? Like, is 1 hour of dollar or 2 dollar slots the same as one hour of $10 blackjack / craps / hold 'em?

[BillHoo]

I might just bring a watch and set the time for 2 minute intervals and sit down in front of a slot machine.  Scan my seapass and make pull every 120 seconds?  So for a $1 machine, I'm only losing $30 an hour?  Wonder what I might get as a comp?  An RCCL keychain?

[WAAAYTOOO]

On 5/16/2017 at 3:20 PM, JLMoran said:

How would that translate with slot play? If the typical table minimum is $10 (or $5 on some ships), do you need to make the same kind of bet on the slots for the same duration? Or do they rate slots differently since the rate of play is so much faster / you make WAAAY more bets in the same amount of time? Like, is 1 hour of dollar or 2 dollar slots the same as one hour of $10 blackjack / craps / hold 'em?

I wish I could ya !  I don't even touch slot machines so I have no idea how the casino quanties slot play.  I know there is a points system and some people proclaim that they know the dollar:point ratio but I do not.

[tonyfsu21]

On 5/16/2017 at 3:20 PM, JLMoran said:

How would that translate with slot play? If the typical table minimum is $10 (or $5 on some ships), do you need to make the same kind of bet on the slots for the same duration? Or do they rate slots differently since the rate of play is so much faster / you make WAAAY more bets in the same amount of time? Like, is 1 hour of dollar or 2 dollar slots the same as one hour of $10 blackjack / craps / hold 'em?

IMHO: I believe the frequency of slot bets and the amount (min or max, $1, or .01) equate to points on your seapass card. This is then evaluated at the end of the cruise. I play a healthy mix of slots, roulette & blackjack and bet a significant amount on all three so I don't necessarily know what game has granted me membership. Although on Harmony I hit back to back to back 17's on roulette with $100 on the number....