Non-Refundable Deposit Program

[JLMoran]

So Matt just posted about The Non-refundable Deposit Program. If I read it right, it sounds like as long as you don't change the ship or the sail date, then you can still cancel and re-book based on the current promotion, assuming that still net saves you money?

If that's the case, sound like a decent deal. Instant $100 OBC per cabin and you still have the ability to rebook when it saves you money. As long as you can commit to the sail date and ship, you're good. Obviously remains to be seen if the initial price you pay is the same as a regular refundable booking, or if they charge more to offset that $100 OBC / make the displayed price of future promos different so it's harder to rebook. But it seems on the surface to be a good option.

One question I have is if rebooking with an OBC promo "stacks" with that $100 you got up front, or if it's adjusted to reflect the initial credit. 

What do you all think? Would you take advantage for your next cruise? I know that right now this would be nice for my Anthem cruise to Bermuda next October, as we'd have at least double the OBC we have now, or even triple if it "stacks".

[coneyraven]

What i thought interesting is that it may work against those booking cruises while on board a cruise for a date that's way out, when the passenger knows they intend to move it further out once a new season of itineraries open up ...

For example, you're on a cruise now, book a cruise for Spring of '19 for the on board credit ..... but have no intention of actually cruising then, just hold the booking until Fall of '19 opens up and move it there. There you would have to pay a penalty fee.

[jticarruthers]

It says "up to $100" so my guess is its probably one of those charts where it's really $25 for most people but gets "up to" $100 by the time you hit a suite for a 14 night cruise.

Conceptually though it sounds reasonable ... if you are rock solid on cruising on a certain ship on a certain date, you gamble on making the deposit non-refundable for a small discount.

Would have to see the actual table showing the OBC calculations to see if its worth it to me personally or not though.

[DocLC]

Personally, it's not worth it for me for a 7 night cruise for the small amount of onboard credit as I like the flexibility. For example, I'm seeing a 12 or 13 night New Zealand cruise over New Year's for less than I'm paying for 7 nights in the Caribbean. While the airfare is higher, it's still very reasonable for the distance right now. Under this new program, I'd love for making the change. 

[Matt]

This reminds me a lot of car rentals.  There's usually 2 prices: one price for refundable and a discounted price if you pay up front.

[DocLC]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

This reminds me a lot of car rentals.  There's usually 2 prices: one price for refundable and a discounted price if you pay up front.

Very true. For someone who knows his/her plans aren't going to change, this makes sense. 

Carnival has a similar program. For theirs, however, it guarantees the lowest price even after final payment. 

[RBRSKI]

Good Morning,

I get two things from this:

1-No matter which way you try to look at, spin it or try to figure out what is best, RCCL will always have  you by the balls.

2-The cruise industry in my OPINION is getting ideas from the airline industry of ways of charging you for everything.  These are extremely different types of beast and should not be grouped together.  They better be careful as I always seek out flights FIRST on Southwest because they don't nickle and dime you.  Once again my OPINION.

[WAAAYTOOO]

Well, I think that most of you (who know  me) will guess that I am very very disappointed in this new rule.

To make all suite deposits non-refundable is a real deal breaker for me.  I book LOTS of suites and this is going to really require some soul searching.  I never intentionally book something with the intent to cancel it later.  I always believe that I will take the cruise when I book it but very often find either a better deal, a better ship, a better itinerary or circumstances change to require me to cancel.  I would be willing to pay a cancellation fee but to lose my entire deposit is a no-go.

I can't remember who wrote it (maybe a week ago ?  When the similar onboard booking policy came out) but Royal is in a win-win situation with me when I book and then cancel a suite.  (1) They have my downpayment money to use for a number of months  (2) I purchase when the suites are at their lowest price point - when they first come out.  When I cancel many months down the road, the price of that suite is now SIGNIFICANTLY more than what I paid so the cruise line is reselling it at a much better price than the one at which they sold it to me.  I can totally understand their concern if suites were hard to move but they are CONSISTENTLY the first rooms on any ship to sell out.  They go FIRST.  Close to cruise date when a suite comes available it is snatched up immediately.  I know.  I watch these things very closely.

I am not going to do anything rash but this is definitely pushing me to try other options.  I had both a Celebrity and MSC cruise booked for 2017 and 2018 but I cancelled both of those in favor of Royal cruises.  I think that decision may reverse in the future.  I really hate to have to jump ship (pun intended) so far down this road (halfway to Pinnacle) but I will not be bullied like this and that's what I feel is happening.  This is a very bad decision for Royal, IMO.  I know I am not the only suite cruiser who feels this way.  There are WAAAYTOOO many other options out there for us and while I like Royal's product I am finding more and more reasons to abandon ship.  [Sorry for all of the nautical analogies.  Sometimes I can't help myself.]

Spoiled ?  Entitled ?  Maybe.  I know that other markets (Europe, etc.) have had a similar bad deal all along and I have always thought that was wrong.  But it's still a [mostly] free market out there and me and my money may soon be walking (or maybe swimming to try and keep those nautical analogies going.  Shoving off.  How is that ?!).  I hope they change their mind but if they don't, this is likely going to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

[FManke]

I would like the opinion of all the long time and multi-cruise a year members out there. The big question is why? Why is this beneficial to RC and what if any benefits are there to cruisers? Like DocLC says, the benefits don't seem to be worth the loss of flexibility. Maybe the simple reason I can think of is that this "locks" you in and guarantees them certain revenue per se, on a given cruise.

I don't know, as this will be our first cruise and the date, our anniversary, pretty much dictated the cruise date was not going to change, but I would suspect that, just reading the hundreds of posts here, that a lot of people change there cruises all the time.

Does this incur any additional costs on RC's end that they are trying to cut down on?

[FManke]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

This reminds me a lot of car rentals.  There's usually 2 prices: one price for refundable and a discounted price if you pay up front.

Airlines as well, with refundable and non-refundable tickets. Once a company has your money, they are very reluctant to give it back. They will always want to give you a "credit" instead.

[DocLC]

I would think from an accounting standpoint, this makes projecting revenues easier if you're not having to refund money. In addition, fewer people are likely to cancel if they know they're going to lose money. 

[FManke]

2 minutes ago, DocLC said:

I would think from an accounting standpoint, this makes projecting revenues easier if you're not having to refund money. In addition, fewer people are likely to cancel if they know they're going to lose money. 

This was kind of my general thoughts on the program as well.

[WAAAYTOOO]

12 minutes ago, fmanke said:

Airlines as well, with refundable and non-refundable tickets. Once a company has your money, they are very reluctant to give it back. They will always want to give you a "credit" instead.

That's the part that has me so frustrated.  I can only give you 5 fingers (or maybe just 1, particular finger) of times when I have actually booked a suite, cancelled it and not replaced it with another Royal suite booking.  I actually did do that this year (I cancelled my Feb. 2019 booking on Celebrity in favor of a land cruise) but that is extremely rare for me.  For the most part, I replace my cancellation with another booking !  Why push me away with this ridiculous policy ?

You asked earlier, why are they doing it ?  I have read that many people book dozens of suites, knowing that they will never use them all, and then decide, down the road, which ones they want and which ones they will let go.  I am not in that group.  But I think it is that group that they are trying to counteract.  Unfortunately, this new policy is going to chase away the small guy, like me, who is only trying to take a few good cruises each year and wants to be able to choose what they want, when they want it !  ...and it IS chasing me away.  

So many things Royal has done in the past few years indicates that their most profitable market is new cruisers.  New cruisers spend more money onboard than experienced cruisers.  ...and onboard spending is where Royal makes their profit.  The cost of the cabin just covers the expense of operating the ship (similar to how the cost of admission to a movie theater only covers the expense of showing the film.  All of their profit is made at the concession counter).  So new policies coming out of RCI do not really favor their loyal customers.  I see this time and time again.  They don't care if they lose their old customers.  High level C&A members just cost them money with perks, free drinks, discounts, etc.  It appears to me (and most of the other experienced cruisers that voice their concern) that they would rather have new cruisers than to keep their loyal ones.

[FManke]

1 minute ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

 New cruisers spend more money onboard than experienced cruisers.  ...and onboard spending is where Royal makes their profit.  The cost of the cabin just covers the expense of operating the ship (similar to how the cost of admission to a movie theater only covers the expense of showing the film.  All of their profit is made at the concession counter).  

It's like a gas station. They make very little on the gas, all their profit comes from the chips and soda you buy while you're filling your tank.

[JLMoran]

3 hours ago, coneyraven said:

For example, you're on a cruise now, book a cruise for Spring of '19 for the on board credit ..... but have no intention of actually cruising then, just hold the booking until Fall of '19 opens up and move it there. There you would have to pay a penalty fee.

 

22 minutes ago, fmanke said:

I would like the opinion of all the long time and multi-cruise a year members out there. The big question is why? Why is this beneficial to RC and what if any benefits are there to cruisers? Like DocLC says, the benefits don't seem to be worth the loss of flexibility. Maybe the simple reason I can think of is that this "locks" you in and guarantees them certain revenue per se, on a given cruise.

I don't know, as this will be our first cruise and the date, our anniversary, pretty much dictated the cruise date was not going to change, but I would suspect that, just reading the hundreds of posts here, that a lot of people change there cruises all the time.

Does this incur any additional costs on RC's end that they are trying to cut down on?

I think that example from @coneyraven mentioned above is the main reason why RCI is doing this. People booking 4 or 5 cruises and then canceling all but one (I'm looking at you, Michael Poole!) or like the example booking a cabin on a cruise that you have no intention of taking at all, just so you can move it to a future cruise and reap the OBC benefit at the Next Cruise desk. If you do a non-refundable deposit, you're basically telling RCI you don't plan on pulling those "shenanigans" and Royal doesn't now have to deal with (as big of) a flood of canceled room bookings that they need to sell last-minute.

Before this thread gets too much more agita, though -- isn't the non-refundable deposit an optional way to book it? You can still make refundable deposit bookings, from what I read in Matt's article. You're just not getting that extra bit of OBC up front and you don't lose the flexibility that's been there up until now.

[FManke]

I think the program would be better received if they gave you an bigger incentive to keep a booking as is, then penalizing you for changing one. Or just make those OBC available for the original cruise that you booked and non transferable? They give you incentives to book early and fill certain ships at certain times.

[FManke]

13 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

If you do a non-refundable deposit, you're basically telling RCI you don't plan on pulling those "shenanigans" and Royal doesn't now have to deal with (as big of) a flood of canceled room bookings that they need to sell last-minute.

 

It's like many things in life, the few wreck it for the many. Things happen and plans change. But it's the people that are doing this kind of thing on purpose and playing "the game" that are causing RC to make policy changes. Not honoring what they said they would do.  Like my Dad always said, "Sometimes in life all you have is your word. Always keep your word." In the end they have a business to run and they have to do what they feel is right for their company. If people voice their opinions strong enough, maybe they will make a change.

[Matt]

46 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I have read that many people book dozens of suites, knowing that they will never use them all, and then decide, down the road, which ones they want and which ones they will let go.  I am not in that group.  But I think it is that group that they are trying to counteract.  

Bingo.  This has become a big problem and it frustrates those new to RC.

Case in point was when RC released Symphony of the Seas. First day it was out, all suites were sold out.  All of them. Since then, some have come back to the fold but the bottom line is there are people abusing the system.

I agree with you that it negatively impacts me and you, because we don't do that.  When we book a sailing, there's a fairly good chance that we will go on it. But I also know I have gotten into the habit of booking early and deciding later because I know that if I do not, it will literally cost me later on. Perhaps with this new system, that fear can be assuaged.

[tiny260]

I have two examples that support both sides of this story:

1) In 2016, I used Next Cruise to book a fall 2017 family cruise (Harmony OTS, 2 bedroom Aqua suite, Star Class), did not take the OBC for the 2016 cruise I was on I had them assigned to the future 2017 cruise, well my son and Daughter IL, got pregnant and the baby would not be old enough to cruise under RCCL rules. I did not cancel the room but moved the reservation to a summer of 2018 cruise, different ship, different dates, maintained a suite. This was not planned or the intention, but just how it worked out. It actually made more money for RCCL, because I quickly realized that I would not be taking a cruise in 2017, so I hurriedly booked a cruise leaving on May 28, 2017. Truth be told, I was already thinking of doing something similar, Fall of 2017 was looking pretty far off in March.

2) Knowing I would be on a cruise in May 2017, I was planning on using Next Cruise to book a suite in 2019, my concern about doing this was I thought my schedule locked me in to taking this 2019 cruise in June, reading all of the expert advice that this forum provides I knew that the 2019 Caribbean cruises for June would not be released until March/April time frame of 2018, so I thought, no big deal, I will find the options I need, ship, itinerary, suite, star class, book the best available date and then when the 2019 schedule is released I will just move it.

I have now found out that my schedule is not locked in to June of 2019, so when I use Next Cruise and book my 2019 I can do it with confidence that I will be able to meet the dates, so no harm or foul, but I was prepared to do it to get the best price and the OBC etc..

My wife works in Education so she only gets certain dates off, but when I proposed the suite and star class to her she said she would miss school for that.

[eaglesfaninfl]

"...or like the example booking a cabin on a cruise that you have no intention of taking at all, just so you can move it to a future cruise and reap the OBC benefit at the Next Cruise desk. "

I agree that there are abuses of the system; however, what was written above was EXACTLY the advice we were given in February by the gentleman at the Next Cruise desk on board Serenade, since we were looking at 2018/2019 cruises and they had not been rolled out yet! We were not trying to game the system but had no room for an earlier cruise.

It would appear that RCL may have contributed to creating their own problem...by the way, we booked a "phantom" cruise that we had absolutely no intention of taking, waited until the newer cruises came out and booked the cruise we wanted in 2019. If RCL is going to restrict that practice, then coneyraven's comment comes true and Next Cruise is much less attractive

[Matt]

19 hours ago, eaglesfaninfl said:

It would appear that RCL may have contributed to creating their own problem...by the way, we booked a "phantom" cruise that we had absolutely no intention of taking, waited until the newer cruises came out and booked the cruise we wanted in 2019. If RCL is going to restrict that practice, then coneyraven's comment comes true and Next Cruise is much less attractive

I do agree that the issue we see today with phantom bookings (great term for it) is partially a product of the "book now!" mentality that RC instills in its guests, especially at NextCruise.

[rjweber3]

Boy, this is going to make NextCruise a MUCH harder sell for me. For a relative pittance in OBC that is offset by the $100 change charge, I see no reason to book before the new itineraries become available. As D+, we are looking for new experiences. The NextCruise folks point to the possibility of those in the future. I think I am DONE with NextCruise.

[RBRSKI]

It will give RCCL the justification to shut down the NEXT Cruise desk, eliminate the sales reps on all the ships and replace the area with a venue that is not included in the price of the cruise. Man, they just scored!!!!

[CGTLH]

I'm part of the group disappointed in the new suite booking policy. I'm not one that play suite roulette, but I've had bookings that I've canceled later one. On top if that I've done the book onboard thing when a just a week or two away from a new booking season opening.

As it stands right now. If the policy was in place I'd have the potential of a $500-$600 loss on just two bookings.

One is where I'm unsure of four people in a large suite vs two in a Grand and two in a balcony. Other is where all intentions were in place when booking, but a change of plans occurred.

Other question is would cancelling a third+ person in a suite trigger a non-refundable clause. Some times I book with three just to hold the third person rate. That way if they do go it doesn't cause a reprice.

[JLMoran]

Just to remind everyone -- this non-refundable deposit thing is optional, provided that you're not booking a suite. You can still do normal refundable deposits, you just lose out on the little bit of extra OBC. And you can still book a "phantom" cruise at the Next Cruise desk for a Balcony or lower category and be able to switch ships / dates later on.

For myself, I may use this option since there's no penalty to cancel & rebook in order to take advantage of a promo that lowers your cost, and at least so far I don't think about booking before I know what the exact itinerary is.

[firegal2539]

I am really getting confused. According to RCCL and Matt"s posting the nonrefundable deposit is on suites and guaranteed cabins. But reading further it says it is on all bookings. So which is it?

Royal"s comments were to keep the integrity of suite bookings, cancellation before final pay is why it is on suites. Royal goes on to say that travel partners (agents) pushed for this due to limited availability when trying to book.

$25 is for interiors and ocean views of 5 days or less, $50 for balconies and suites. Longer cruises $50 interior and ocean view and $100 for higher.

I agree with all posts but as in life a few people spoil it for others by doing 4 or 5 phantom (like that name) bookings. 

I have had to cancel several cruises for medical reasons and losing a deposit would really upset me.

I cruise Royal and Princess and am now booked on Celebrity and Holland America. I know there are advantages to bring brand loyal but I want options and it seems to me that Royal is limiting my options.

Carnival has done nonrefundable deposits for years. Maybe Royal is trying to become Carnival Junior.

[Atlantix2000]

As I understand it, the non-refundable deposit is required on suites for the reasons mentioned.  However, it is optional for other classes of staterooms.  This means you can get some OBC if you are willing to commit to a specific ship and date.  If you can't commit, then choose the older refundable deposit policy.  (I would say a history of cancellations due to medical reasons means you should choose refundable.)

Of course, if you want a suite but can't commit to a sailing, the new policy has hurt your options.

As others have said, this may be a first step in moving to non-refundable deposits for everyone.

[EmersonNZ]

I must admit I like the new program especially as it is optional. It's almost a win/win/win. Royal Wins as they get a little more certainty on occupancy, I win because I get a reward for booking early if I am willing to set firm dates (and I can always get travel insurance to offset any loss) and those who don't want to set firm dates win because... well nothing has changed for them.

 

 

[mpoole3]

I think they created this new policy because of me...

[DocLC]

10 minutes ago, mpoole3 said:

I think they created this new policy because of me...

Or me. I had three cruises booked this summer and next, but only an taking one each. 

I did book my first cruise with a non refundable deposit on another line, but it was during their $1 deposit day, so I figured I could rush the $2 I had to put down. 

[Boltswin]

This will definitely cause me to book fewer RCCL cruises and to look at other options in the future. Royal was always our first choice and will continue to be in the mix for our travel dollar, but this will cause us to look closely at other lines. 

We always booked a couple of cruises at the next cruise office and had the OBC added to the future cruise. We would then from time to time rebook those cruises as new dates became available, work schedules changed, etc., but never cancel them. Royal held our money the entire time and wasn't out anything due to the OBC on the future booking. If it was simply an extra $100 OBC for booking a non refundable deposit I could live with that, but in the example Matt posted today the total cost difference is $260 per person, that's crazy talk to me. 

Add this to new room service charge, corkage fee, shore excursion cancellation policy change and it makes it harder to justify Royal giving you the best bang for your buck. 

[DocLC]

@Boltswin This is an optional program. You have to opt in/select the non-refundable deposit. You'll get some onboard credit if you do as an incentive, but you aren't required to add the old refundable deposit system is still in place. 

See more details here: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2017/05/09/royal-caribbean-announces-new-non-refundable-deposit-program

While I agree with you about the room service charges as everyone in here knows, I'm okay with the shore excursion cancellation change as it gives more opportunity to those on the wait list for an excursion to actual have an opportunity to book. 

[Boltswin]

@DocLCI understand that it's optional and by no means is it a deal breaker for me, just makes it harder to justify being loyal to Royal. We're diamond members and have sailed the majority of our cruises on Royal. For me this just makes me look over the fence to see what else is available. Really enjoyed our Celebrity cruise (not sure if they adopted the policy), maybe check out the the MSC ships, who knows. Creates a wondering eye. ?

With all that said we current have 4 Royal cruises booked (including 2 rclblog GC) and have zero intention of canceling any of them. 

[DocLC]

I completely understand @Boltswin. My next two cruises are on Princess and MSC, respectively, for itinerary of to try out a new ship design. I just don't see the issue here as you're still eligible for all other promotions. If you're willing to book a non-refundable deposit, then you get a slight perk. If not, you're out nothing. Perhaps I'm missing something?

[monctonguy]

I haven't looked into the fine details and pricing as I haven't been looking to book anything as prices are so high right now for anything I want.

 

However, I used to always have 2-3 cruises booked at a time for the first few years I started cruising but they have become fewer and far between now as the pricing and deals aren't they same as they were a few years ago.

 

I will be curious to see if this makes me more likely to start booking multiple cruises again or not....