Utopia Of the Seas

[twangster]

2 hours ago, Midwest Cruiser said:

Within the article it appears Icon would find Home At Terminal G or Shared births at MSC's new terminal to the East of Terminal A. I would wonder if this gets approved, Does royal then plan an upgrade to Port Everglades terminal??....

New Terminal G and Berth 10

It calls for building a new Terminal G for Royal Caribbean Group's exclusive use and Berth 10, where the company would share the new terminal under construction by MSC Cruises.

The agreement also covers the continued development of Royal Caribbean's PortMiami headquarters, put on hold during the pandemic, and a lease extension there through at least 2072

New CTG able to handle Icon-class ships

Royal Caribbean's existing Terminal G has capacity for ships with about 4,000 passengers. The new CTG will be able to handle Icon-class ships — cruising's largest — with capacity for 7,000-plus passengers. It will be built to the county's sustainable buildings ordinance with solar panels and have a multi-level shared parking garage with ground-level intermodal facility, connecting roadways and a provisioning building.

It will occupy both the existing site and PortMiami’s 1963-era administrative building, to be demolished.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ports-destinations/miami-dade-weighs-new-royal-caribbean-terminal-hq-expansion

 

While CT-G will be capable of accommodating Icon class I'm not sure it states that is where Icon will go.  I would think with Icon being marginally larger than Oasis that Icon can likely go to CT-A if they want.  You can be assured that any new construction of MSC's shared facility will also be able to accommodate Icon class. 

Right now Oasis can only fit at CT-A.  I think this move will give them more flexibility, allowing Oasis and Icon to go at any of the three terminals.    

Currently MSC can't bring their mega ship World Europa to America.  MSC needs the new terminal to be mega capable so they can bring this class of ship to America.  However with so few ships in the US relative to the competition they can't keep a mega terminal in use enough to justify the expense so they are looking for a partner to share it.  They started shopping for partners long before the pandemic.  Now they found one.  

It's equally important that CT-G is currently a shared terminal.  Other cruise lines also use it.  With it becoming exclusive to Royal and with Royal partnering with MSC at their terminal it hinders what the competition, specifically Carnival, can do.

With Miami being the cruise port capital of the world there is a lot to read between the lines in this announcement.  

[Zambia-Zaire]

14 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

With Miami expanding, might be able to put a 3rd oasis there

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ports-destinations/miami-dade-weighs-new-royal-caribbean-terminal-hq-expansion

Was there an article or talk, suggesting Royal plan to build an Oasis class terminal in LA or Australia...somewhere in the Pacific region?

[twangster]

5 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

Was there an article or talk, suggesting Royal plan to build an Oasis class terminal in LA or Australia...somewhere in the Pacific region?

In most other places there is no leed for a cruise line to invest money into port development and to ensure exclusivity.  In most ports outside of the US there isn't enough cruise volume to justify or requiring terminals dedicated to one company.

Australia has an Oasis capable terminal in Brisbane.  It's brand new.  The problem is it's Brisbane, not Sydney.   Tokyo built an Oasis capable terminal.  None of these required Royal to build them.  

Royal can't fill Navigator in LA.  It will be a very long time before an Oasis class goes to LA, if ever.  

[EvergreenCruzers]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Royal can't fill Navigator in LA.  It will be a very long time before an Oasis class goes to LA, if ever.  

[Geoff P]

15 hours ago, twangster said:  

Royal can't fill Navigator in LA.  It will be a very long time before an Oasis class goes to LA, if ever.  

I’m wondering if it’s more that the itinerary isn’t appealing with the Navigator sailings they’re offering?  Short 3-4 night sailings may be popular out of Florida ports but maybe not LA?  I see Princess and Carnival and others doing slightly longer cruises out of LA that include Hawaii or other ports in Mexico/Central America, maybe Royal needs to consider (maybe they already are).  Also, maybe a brand new shiny Oasis class ship would attract more people to LA?

[twangster]

1 hour ago, Geoff P said:

I’m wondering if it’s more that the itinerary isn’t appealing with the Navigator sailings they’re offering?  Short 3-4 night sailings may be popular out of Florida ports but maybe not LA?  I see Princess and Carnival and others doing slightly longer cruises out of LA that include Hawaii or other ports in Mexico/Central America, maybe Royal needs to consider (maybe they already are).  Also, maybe a brand new shiny Oasis class ship would attract more people to LA?

West coast cruising suffers from a lack of port diversity.  The primary 3/4 nights options are Ensenada and Catalina.    Expanding to 7 nights only adds two or three more potential destinations.  That's get old quickly.  

The short FL market includes Nassau which is as popular as Ensenada is.  However CocoCay is very popular and so the short FL market thrives.  

You can bring any new ship and guests will book it once, maybe twice.  Filling a ship week after week for months or years is a different matter.  Moving a ship to a new home port costs a lot in itself.  If you can't fill the ship on an ongoing basis the business model isn't there to move a ship for a few weeks or months then move it somewhere else.

Singapore seems to suffering the same fate.  Cruises from Singapore on Spectrum, a great and nearly new ship are dirt cheap.  There is only one reason for cruises to be dirt cheap - they can't fill the ship.  

[Zambia-Zaire]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

West coast cruising suffers from a lack of port diversity.  The primary 3/4 nights options are Ensenada and Catalina.    Expanding to 7 nights only adds two or three more potential destinations.  That's get old quickly.  

The short FL market includes Nassau which is as popular as Ensenada is.  However CocoCay is very popular and so the short FL market thrives.  

You can bring any new ship and guests will book it once, maybe twice.  Filling a ship week after week for months or years is a different matter.  Moving a ship to a new home port costs a lot in itself.  If you can't fill the ship on an ongoing basis the business model isn't there to move a ship for a few weeks or months then move it somewhere else.

Singapore seems to suffering the same fate.  Cruises from Singapore on Spectrum, a great and nearly new ship are dirt cheap.  There is only one reason for cruises to be dirt cheap - they can't fill the ship.  

Even more reason, to build smaller Oasis style ships. Be cautious about building continuous larger Chinese cities that's vacant...nothing wrong with newer, smaller cities. 

[Geoff P]

5 hours ago, twangster said:

West coast cruising suffers from a lack of port diversity.  The primary 3/4 nights options are Ensenada and Catalina.    Expanding to 7 nights only adds two or three more potential destinations.  That's get old quickly.  

The short FL market includes Nassau which is as popular as Ensenada is.  However CocoCay is very popular and so the short FL market thrives.  

You can bring any new ship and guests will book it once, maybe twice.  Filling a ship week after week for months or years is a different matter.  Moving a ship to a new home port costs a lot in itself.  If you can't fill the ship on an ongoing basis the business model isn't there to move a ship for a few weeks or months then move it somewhere else.

Singapore seems to suffering the same fate.  Cruises from Singapore on Spectrum, a great and nearly new ship are dirt cheap.  There is only one reason for cruises to be dirt cheap - they can't fill the ship.  

I agree, that’s what I was saying before, I think Royal needs to re-think the itineraries they offer out of LA, maybe scrap the 3/4 nighters and go longer to offer better port diversity, and see if they can continuously fill Navigator, it may make the west coast cruises more attractive for them.  I don’t think they would want to keep an Oasis class ship tied up on longer itineraries on a regular basis though 

[twangster]

4 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

Even more reason, to build smaller Oasis style ships. Be cautious about building continuous larger Chinese cities that's vacant...nothing wrong with newer, smaller cities. 

The biggest problem with smaller ships is quite small.  Small revenue.  Bigger ships make bigger money.  That's mass market cruising. 

Smaller ships with less stuff is exactly what Celebrity offers.    

[JasonOasis]

10 hours ago, twangster said:

West coast cruising suffers from a lack of port diversity.  The primary 3/4 nights options are Ensenada and Catalina.    Expanding to 7 nights only adds two or three more potential destinations.  That's get old quickly.  

The short FL market includes Nassau which is as popular as Ensenada is.  However CocoCay is very popular and so the short FL market thrives.  

Quick question

What is Carnivals secret to their success out west of of LA where later this year they will be running 3 ships (Miracle, Radiance and Panorama) out of LA to basically the same markets.  The exception is they have several 8 night cruises on Panorama that adds a destination not found on any of their 3, 4, 5, or 7 night cruises.

[Jamesszy94]

I'm still hoping that once things go back to normal here in Australia re: cruising, Royal will send one of the Oasis class down here - although, from what I've heard, we've got pretty strict biosecurity laws so all the plants down the promenade will either have to be removed and replaced with something else or Royal will need to think of something!

I really just want to experience one of the Oasis class ships..

Heck.... we'll even take Allure or Oasis!

[Jamesszy94]

On 1/18/2023 at 10:45 AM, twangster said:

In most other places there is no leed for a cruise line to invest money into port development and to ensure exclusivity.  In most ports outside of the US there isn't enough cruise volume to justify or requiring terminals dedicated to one company.

Australia has an Oasis capable terminal in Brisbane.  It's brand new.  The problem is it's Brisbane, not Sydney.   Tokyo built an Oasis capable terminal.  None of these required Royal to build them.  

Royal can't fill Navigator in LA.  It will be a very long time before an Oasis class goes to LA, if ever.  

I mean, I know Oasis class is slightly larger than the Quantum class ships, we do indeed have an Oasis capable terminal in Brisbane, but I also think our port here in Sydney should be capable of docking an Oasis-class, Quantum and Ovation cruise from the Overseas Passenger Terminal during the Summer months here... I guess it depends on the cruise market down here and if Royal can justify sending an Oasis class down here.

[twangster]

29 minutes ago, Jamesszy94 said:

I mean, I know Oasis class is slightly larger than the Quantum class ships, we do indeed have an Oasis capable terminal in Brisbane, but I also think our port here in Sydney should be capable of docking an Oasis-class, Quantum and Ovation cruise from the Overseas Passenger Terminal during the Summer months here... I guess it depends on the cruise market down here and if Royal can justify sending an Oasis class down here.

I'm not sure "slightly" larger properly captures the difference between Oasis and Quantum class. 

Nearly 2,000 more guests. 

They don't use small terminals in Florida for Oasis class because they don't work when boarding 6,500+ people.  OPT is smaller than even the smallest cruise terminals in Florida. 

When Oasis was being built they built a mega terminal in Port Everglades just for her and subsequently for her sister Allure.   Part of the business plan for Oasis class was a mega terminal in order to make it possible to turn around so many mega ship guests in the same amount of time.  Miami didn't see an Oasis class ship until they built terminal one, a.k.a the Crown of Miami specifically for Oasis class.  They knew better than to try to use the other terminals in Miami which are two to three times the size of OPT.  OPT from a cruise terminal perspective is pretty small.  It has zero space for waiting areas.  They don't let the people into OPT until the ship is boarding because there is no space inside the OPT to hold people.

In Barcelona they use two cruise terminals to handle Oasis class.  One wouldn't cut it so they split the traffic between two cruise terminals.  

They didn't bring Oasis class to Texas until they built a mega terminal in Galveston.  When they had to delay terminal construction in Galveston for one year they redeployed Allure and cancelled a year's worth of cruises from Texas because they knew better than to try to make Allure work from the other cruise terminals in Galveston which are much larger than OPT.  

MSC has the same challenge with World Europa.  They can't bring her to the US right now because there is no terminal big enough for her and Royal isn't sharing their Oasis capable terminals.   So while MSC builds a terminal in Miami, which is under construction, World Europa and her future sister ships can't come to the US until it's complete.

The other issue is the extensive ferry traffic near OPT.  With Oasis class being much wider it would severely impact ferry operations.  The extra 20m beam at the waterline means there is that much less space for the constant coming and going ferry traffic to share the rest of the space.  It's the width of Oasis class that sets her apart from any other class of ship.

But mostly it's about OPT being a very small cruise terminal.  It can't handle the passengers or provisioning of a mega ship.  

[cruisellama]

Is  Utopia  a sister ship to Wonder  (yes/no)?  If yes, wouldn't it be close in its architectural layout?  [Random thought: After sailing Wonder, I thought there should be some rethinking of elevator capacity.  A 6000+ passenger load really challenges elevator wait times during feeding and entertainment periods.  Adding elevators would have major design implications with cost.]

[JohnK6404]

2 hours ago, cruisellama said:

Is  Utopia  a sister ship to Wonder  (yes/no)?  If yes, wouldn't it be close in its architectural layout?  [Random thought: After sailing Wonder, I thought there should be some rethinking of elevator capacity.  A 6000+ passenger load really challenges elevator wait times during feeding and entertainment periods.  Adding elevators would have major design implications with cost.]

Yes, Utopia is the 6th and final Oasis class. Closest in design to Wonder, but LNG powered like Icon class. Kind of a hybrid of Oasis and Icon class... somewhat of a bridge to Icon class. What Wikipedia refers to as "Third Generation Oasis Plus (2022-24)"...

 

EDIT: This is likely Wonder, but every search leads to this image. I would imagine she would be mostly identical to Wonder in the public spaces. I just hope her decor will be more tropical or "Western" like Odyssey and Oasis (post-amplification).

 

Just a cool updated pic... latest pic posted by Michael Bayley (or likely his staff!)... https://www.facebook.com/MichaelBayleyRoyalCaribbean

[cruisellama]

16 minutes ago, JohnK6404 said:

Yes, Utopia is the 6th and final Oasis class. Closest in design to Wonder, but LNG powered like Icon class. Kind of a hybrid of Oasis and Icon class... the bridge to Icon class. What Wikipedia refers to as "Thjrd Generation Oasis Plus (2022-24)"...

Thanks.   So Icon would be the first ship (4th gen) that could consider elevator expansion opportunity.   Guessing Utopia will be the same basic interior, except any space considerations for LNG propulsion changes.

[Austin]

That picture is actually Wonder, not Utopia. Utopia isn’t even close to that far along in its construction.

[JohnK6404]

1 hour ago, cruisellama said:

Thanks.   So Icon would be the first ship (4th gen) that could consider elevator expansion opportunity.   Guessing Utopia will be the same basic interior, except any space considerations for LNG propulsion changes.

Actually, Icon is a brand new class at almost 251K gross tons compared to Oasis (225K-237K tons)... Utopia is the last of the Oasis class.

I wonder if there will be another Quantum Plus vessel in the future (maybe an LNG version) and/or similarly-sized new LNG class. I know, Wikipedia is not the bible, but at least it provides some interesting info...

[JohnK6404]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

That picture is actually Wonder, not Utopia. Utopia isn’t even close to that far along in its construction.

I think you're right... would not be surprised that is Wonder ... but, Utopia is scheduled to be in service sometime next Spring closely following Icon (end of JAN 2024) so it must be much further along than we all think... it's just not getting any of the hoopla of the new Icon class... a little sad actually!

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/utopia-of-the-seas#:~:text=Utopia of the Seas℠,come as visions become reality.

[Austin]

If you look earlier in this same thread on page 1, a photo was posted from December 2022 and it looks like they are still laying the first blocks. Royal is strategic about what and when they release. They’ll probably release more this spring with the other itinerary releases.

[Jamesszy94]

8 hours ago, twangster said:

I'm not sure "slightly" larger properly captures the difference between Oasis and Quantum class. 

Nearly 2,000 more guests. 

They don't use small terminals in Florida for Oasis class because they don't work when boarding 6,500+ people.  OPT is smaller than even the smallest cruise terminals in Florida. 

When Oasis was being built they built a mega terminal in Port Everglades just for her and subsequently for her sister Allure.   Part of the business plan for Oasis class was a mega terminal in order to make it possible to turn around so many mega ship guests in the same amount of time.  Miami didn't see an Oasis class ship until they built terminal one, a.k.a the Crown of Miami specifically for Oasis class.  They knew better than to try to use the other terminals in Miami which are two to three times the size of OPT.  OPT from a cruise terminal perspective is pretty small.  It has zero space for waiting areas.  They don't let the people into OPT until the ship is boarding because there is no space inside the OPT to hold people.

In Barcelona they use two cruise terminals to handle Oasis class.  One wouldn't cut it so they split the traffic between two cruise terminals.  

They didn't bring Oasis class to Texas until they built a mega terminal in Galveston.  When they had to delay terminal construction in Galveston for one year they redeployed Allure and cancelled a year's worth of cruises from Texas because they knew better than to try to make Allure work from the other cruise terminals in Galveston which are much larger than OPT.  

MSC has the same challenge with World Europa.  They can't bring her to the US right now because there is no terminal big enough for her and Royal isn't sharing their Oasis capable terminals.   So while MSC builds a terminal in Miami, which is under construction, World Europa and her future sister ships can't come to the US until it's complete.

The other issue is the extensive ferry traffic near OPT.  With Oasis class being much wider it would severely impact ferry operations.  The extra 20m beam at the waterline means there is that much less space for the constant coming and going ferry traffic to share the rest of the space.  It's the width of Oasis class that sets her apart from any other class of ship.

But mostly it's about OPT being a very small cruise terminal.  It can't handle the passengers or provisioning of a mega ship.  

Yes! Haha, I used slightly cause I couldn't think of any other word.

You'd think Sydney... being so big... we'd have a bigger cruise terminal, but nope, I guess that's one of the downsides of having the Harbour Bridge Not everything can fit under. I guess that's why OPT is the main cruise terminal and then only the smaller P&O ships use WB Terminal

Hmm, you're absolutely right, I haven't cruised since.... 2017... so I don't really remember the size of the OPT, but now that I think about it, it was pretty small compared to some of the other terminals I've been in, I guess when and if  Royal ever send an Oasis class ship down, it'd have to home port in Brisbane.

[Jamesszy94]

4 hours ago, JohnK6404 said:

Yes, Utopia is the 6th and final Oasis class. Closest in design to Wonder, but LNG powered like Icon class. Kind of a hybrid of Oasis and Icon class... somewhat of a bridge to Icon class. What Wikipedia refers to as "Third Generation Oasis Plus (2022-24)"...

 

EDIT: This is likely Wonder, but every search leads to this image. I would imagine she would be mostly identical to Wonder in the public spaces. I just hope her decor will be more tropical or "Western" like Odyssey and Oasis (post-amplification).

 

Just a cool updated pic... latest pic posted by Michael Bayley (or likely his staff!)... https://www.facebook.com/MichaelBayleyRoyalCaribbean

That's so sad seeing Allure as the only one that's still 225,000 GT! 

4 hours ago, JohnK6404 said:

Actually, Icon is a brand new class at almost 251K gross tons compared to Oasis (225K-237K tons)... Utopia is the last of the Oasis class.

I wonder if there will be another Quantum Plus vessel in the future (maybe an LNG version) and/or similarly-sized new LNG class. I know, Wikipedia is not the bible, but at least it provides some interesting info...

Wasn't Odyssey supposed to be the final Quantum ship?

[JohnK6404]

1 hour ago, Jamesszy94 said:

Wasn't Odyssey supposed to be the final Quantum ship?

That's my guess... I'm assuming that at some point they will design another smaller ship class (compared to Icon, maybe similar in size to Quantum) that is also LNG fueled. I can't imagine they will only make Icon class going forward. At least Quantum class ships are small enough for Bermuda and many of the ports that cannot accommodate the larger ships like Oasis class, etc.

[twangster]

3 hours ago, Jamesszy94 said:

Yes! Haha, I used slightly cause I couldn't think of any other word.

You'd think Sydney... being so big... we'd have a bigger cruise terminal, but nope, I guess that's one of the downsides of having the Harbour Bridge Not everything can fit under. I guess that's why OPT is the main cruise terminal and then only the smaller P&O ships use WB Terminal

Hmm, you're absolutely right, I haven't cruised since.... 2017... so I don't really remember the size of the OPT, but now that I think about it, it was pretty small compared to some of the other terminals I've been in, I guess when and if  Royal ever send an Oasis class ship down, it'd have to home port in Brisbane.

NSW has been flirting with the idea of a new cruise terminal nearby Sydney but one report makes it look like it's progressing then another report makes it look like it dead.  Until something concrete is announced it's Brisbane.  

[Jamesszy94]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

NSW has been flirting with the idea of a new cruise terminal nearby Sydney but one report makes it look like it's progressing then another report makes it look like it dead.  Until something concrete is announced it's Brisbane.  

That's unfortunate, I feel like if the NSW government ever did build a new cruise terminal that could accommodate bigger ships, it would generate so much more tourism for the cruise industry in Sydney (not that Sydney needs anymore tourism We already get plenty, but you know what I mean). We could get the Excellence-class Carnival ships or even (finally...) an Oasis ship  the only question is... where in Sydney would they build a new cruise terminal... (either build a new one, or upgrade the existing one)

[Chili]

19 minutes ago, Jamesszy94 said:

That's unfortunate, I feel like if the NSW government ever did build a new cruise terminal that could accommodate bigger ships, it would generate so much more tourism for the cruise industry in Sydney (not that Sydney needs anymore tourism We already get plenty, but you know what I mean). We could get the Excellence-class Carnival ships or even (finally...) an Oasis ship  the only question is... where in Sydney would they build a new cruise terminal... (either build a new one, or upgrade the existing one)

We won’t see a oasis for a while ,we just don’t have the market for one.

There’s a few ports that have been upgraded to take one ,including Sydney OPT.

OPT has had 50t bollards installed,the birth box has been enlarged and the new gangway put in is designed for a oasis style of ship.

But as @twangstersaid OPT terminal just isn’t in the race to check passengers in.

Brisbane,they can’t fill Quantum so it won’t be going there.

We will just have to wait for a new Port Botany terminal .

[Jamesszy94]

25 minutes ago, Chili said:

We won’t see a oasis for a while ,we just don’t have the market for one.

There’s a few ports that have been upgraded to take one ,including Sydney OPT.

OPT has had 50t bollards installed,the birth box has been enlarged and the new gangway put in is designed for a oasis style of ship.

But as @twangstersaid OPT terminal just isn’t in the race to check passengers in.

Brisbane,they can’t fill Quantum so it won’t be going there.

We will just have to wait for a new Port Botany terminal .

Really? I didn't know they upgraded the OPT, I guess they'd have to with ships getting bigger and bigger, I think the biggest ship that's been moored at OPT is still Ovation?

Are there actually plans to build a newer and bigger terminal in Sydney? Or is it all just hearsay or broken promises by NSW

I could be wrong, I feel like most of the cruise lines that operate out of Australia only sail around Australia (Queensland, Cairns etc), South Pacific cruises and the occasional New Zealand route.... and then you have the repositioning ones that sail outside of those areas, which happens once or twice a year.

[Chili]

1 hour ago, Jamesszy94 said:

Really? I didn't know they upgraded the OPT, I guess they'd have to with ships getting bigger and bigger, I think the biggest ship that's been moored at OPT is still Ovation?

Are there actually plans to build a newer and bigger terminal in Sydney? Or is it all just hearsay or broken promises by NSW

I could be wrong, I feel like most of the cruise lines that operate out of Australia only sail around Australia (Queensland, Cairns etc), South Pacific cruises and the occasional New Zealand route.... and then you have the repositioning ones that sail outside of those areas, which happens once or twice a year.

They put in a new duel gangway about 5 years ago that is supposed to Oasis ready.

[Jamesszy94]

25 minutes ago, Chili said:

They put in a new duel gangway about 5 years ago that is supposed to Oasis ready.

Do you mean these ones? Because apparently according to Wikipedia those were removed in 2018....

Unless you mean this article: https://www.nsw.gov.au/news/sydneys-cruise-terminal-receives-major-upgrade

 

"In July 2019, two additional, custom-built walkways, carrying 5000 passengers each arrived at the OPT to support visits from future larger cruise ships. The NSW Government has placed these gangways in time for the 2019-2020 summer cruising season, and are projected to deliver around 1200 passengers every 30 minutes" 

I mean this is nice and all but the terminal itself is still tiny

[Midwest Cruiser]

23 hours ago, cruisellama said:

Is  Utopia  a sister ship to Wonder  (yes/no)?  If yes, wouldn't it be close in its architectural layout?  [Random thought: After sailing Wonder, I thought there should be some rethinking of elevator capacity.  A 6000+ passenger load really challenges elevator wait times during feeding and entertainment periods.  Adding elevators would have major design implications with cost.]

I'll be the jerk here and say that after being on both Oasis and Symphony, I don't think elevator capacity is really an issue. Its more of a laziness issue, where ABLED BODY people refuse to walk up one flight of stairs and hop the elevator to do so. The handful of times we have done the elevator after the gym or just trying them out that's what we see the most of, hop on at the promenade to go up to boardwalk. SMDH

We honestly make it a thing that we only take stairs during the cruise for exercise, and we are able to do so. 

[lordbryan123]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:37 AM, twangster said:

Singapore seems to suffering the same fate.  Cruises from Singapore on Spectrum, a great and nearly new ship are dirt cheap.  There is only one reason for cruises to be dirt cheap - they can't fill the ship.  

It's cheap not really because it cannot be filled. The cruise market here is very different from the rest of the world.

 

The cruise fare does not include activities like North star, iFly etc. these are add-ons that are charged extra while on board.

Additionally, the main reason why many people go for cruises here is to gamble at the casino. lower fares entice gamblers to spend more at the casino.

 

amongst other reasons. you actually hear people complain that spectrum is too crowded. not at places like the pool (locals hate the sun), but at places liek windjammer xD

[twangster]

3 hours ago, lordbryan123 said:

It's cheap not really because it cannot be filled. The cruise market here is very different from the rest of the world.

 

The cruise fare does not include activities like North star, iFly etc. these are add-ons that are charged extra while on board.

Additionally, the main reason why many people go for cruises here is to gamble at the casino. lower fares entice gamblers to spend more at the casino.

 

amongst other reasons. you actually hear people complain that spectrum is too crowded. not at places like the pool (locals hate the sun), but at places liek windjammer xD

So what you are saying is very few Singaporeans cruise for vacation.  It's primarily gamblers who sail from Singapore.  

If that's the case send all the old, tired ships to Singapore.  It won't matter, gamblers will book regardless if that is the basis of the cruise market in Singapore.  

[lordbryan123]

15 minutes ago, twangster said:

So what you are saying is very few Singaporeans cruise for vacation.  It's primarily gamblers who sail from Singapore.  

If that's the case send all the old, tired ships to Singapore.  It won't matter, gamblers will book regardless if that is the basis of the cruise market in Singapore.  

That much is true, except there is still competition in the region. if you're going to cruise to gamble and Royal has a much older ship while say Genting has a way newer one, with all things being equal people would still go for the newer ship.

That being said, i'd rather the smaller ships too, would cost less as well. fingers crossed.

[twangster]

16 minutes ago, lordbryan123 said:

That much is true, except there is still competition in the region. if you're going to cruise to gamble and Royal has a much older ship while say Genting has a way newer one, with all things being equal people would still go for the newer ship.

That being said, i'd rather the smaller ships too, would cost less as well. fingers crossed.

I didn't realize Genting was still operating in Singapore.  

[lordbryan123]

14 minutes ago, twangster said:

I didn't realize Genting was still operating in Singapore.  

Haha yes, Genting still is. 

Genting Dream's homeport is in Singapore too. They mostly offer 2-3 night cruises as most gamblers only need that much time off and it makes a quick weekend escape so much easier.

[twangster]

21 minutes ago, lordbryan123 said:

Haha yes, Genting still is. 

Genting Dream's homeport is in Singapore too. They mostly offer 2-3 night cruises as most gamblers only need that much time off and it makes a quick weekend escape so much easier.

But it's a 2016 ship and there won't be any new ships coming for a very long time, if ever.  That's assuming the Singapore Sheriff doesn't get their hands on it.  

I really doubt an 8 year old ship from a bankrupt company is a competitor in a market that caters to gamblers primarily, is what Royal is going to base major deployment decisions on.  

[AlmondFarmer]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

That's assuming the Singapore Sheriff doesn't get their hands on it.

Is this a tug boat with giant lasso? 

[DanielMallorca85]

On 1/29/2023 at 5:44 PM, JohnK6404 said:

Yes, Utopia is the 6th and final Oasis class. Closest in design to Wonder, but LNG powered like Icon class. Kind of a hybrid of Oasis and Icon class... somewhat of a bridge to Icon class. What Wikipedia refers to as "Third Generation Oasis Plus (2022-24)"...

 

EDIT: This is likely Wonder, but every search leads to this image. I would imagine she would be mostly identical to Wonder in the public spaces. I just hope her decor will be more tropical or "Western" like Odyssey and Oasis (post-amplification).

 

Just a cool updated pic... latest pic posted by Michael Bayley (or likely his staff!)... https://www.facebook.com/MichaelBayleyRoyalCaribbean

A small but important detail from an image at the steel cutting ceremony. You can see the addition of an exhaust for the LNG tanks in the center of the ship. It's located on the bridge that connects the pool deck above Central Park. However, this exhaust will need to go all the way down to the LNG tanks in the bottom of the hull meaning Utopia's Central Park might be much smaller than on other Oasis-class ships or split into two sections. So, the large opening in the middle of the ship won't be the same on Utopia. This is part of the challenge of adding LNG to a ship that was not originally designed for it.

 

 

[DanielMallorca85]

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/utopia-of-the-seas

[DanielMallorca85]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpxpTqdoG0x/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 Christophe Dedieu