A bad experience

[Squid]

I didn't want to write this, I wanted RC to deal with it internally, but they haven't responded, and so this is my experience with immigration in Ashdod, Israel, and the role I think Royal Caribbean should have played.

 

Myself, my wife and two children (8 and 12) are all British, with valid British passports. We were all born in Britain, we are all white by ethnicity, and we have all visited the same places, so in essence all our passports should be the same.

 

However, upon leaving the Odyssey of the Seas in Ashdod on Mon 24 October 2022 we encountered a problem as we tried to get through the port terminal.

We were told that my wife's passport had some sort of problem and we were all taken aside in the port terminal and told to wait while they investigated further.

And so we waited. For almost 2 hours.

 

An entire queue of 200+ Royal Caribbean staff were lined up next to us.

Nobody asked how we were, or if they could help, or even if they could get a drink for my children. But to be fair, that's not their job in the terminal, is it?

 

And finally, a rude woman came out and shouted a name, not my wife's name, but her middle name. She said it in such a way we didn't even know she was trying to say 'Laura' because in her thick Israeli accent it sounded like she was calling for someone called 'Lara'. A plausible name for someone else in the queue we thought.

 

After 30 seconds I said to my wife, "maybe she is getting your middle name wrong", and so she said to them "I think you mean B***** Laura T*******?".

The now angry Israeli official squared-up to my wife, in her face, and shouted "well you have been sat here for two hours because of how you don't like the way I said your name", which startled my children, the entire queue of staff who stared in disbelief and at that point she walked off. My wife started crying, in front of our children, in front of 200 of your staff, and again nobody helped. Nobody said anything.

 

We went back to the ship to try and salvage something of the day, for the children, to try and play down what happened. 

 

We did not get off in Israel that day, or the next day, because frankly we were scared of my wife's passport being flagged, for reasons unknown to us, and us having problems getting back onto the ship. We thought we could not risk that happening, not with our two children.

 

We then went to customer services to complain. They said they would take it up with the port authority and get back to us. We thought, if we could get some rationale for  the passport being held-up, and some assurances that we would get back on the ship safely, that we might get off the next day in Haifa.

But we did not hear back from customer services.  And so I went back the next day to ask if there was any update.  There was no update.  Instead guest services sent us some wine and some strawberries, but I think they missed the point.  We already had a drinks package and food was plentiful already!  We wanted our voices to be heard, we felt we had been treated like criminals by immigration control, and that RC were not there to help or protect us, and we didn't want to feel trapped on the ship for two days in Israel when everyone else was enjoying  themselves onshore, we felt we were unable to.

My point to you is this:

 

When Royal Caribbean stop at a destination and let us disembark, we do so thinking that we are stopping in a safe place and that to disembark the ship is safe and we can  safely get back on later.

We expect to be taken care of by Royal Caribbean for the duration of our journey with you.  We did not feel that happened, and we think Royal Caribbean could do more to ensure the safety of people disembarking and dealing with immigration.

There should be a RC Officer overseeing immigration, in the terminal, and assisting passengers who experience difficulties.

I understand that different countries have different customs and approaches, but no approach should leave your wife in tears, and especially when done for no reason whatsoever.
An RC officer could have offered to take my children back on board the ship and to Adventure Ocean, but I could not leave my wife alone so I could not do that.

 

That was a horrible day on what was otherwise an incredible cruise, withs uperb service. I absolutely love cruising with you, but please givec onsideration to better support for passengers in immigration, to keep an eye on those being pulled-aside and to assist them, especially those with children. It is a scary experience, and we spoke with others who were denied entry and in some cases were insulted in Hebrew to try and get a reaction out of them, to see if they understood the language.

 

be careful 

[smokeybandit]

Cruise lines really have zero power over customs issues.

[Blulady]

This is completely a customs issue.  The crew from the ship, guest services from the ship - none of those people have ANY control whatsoever of what happens with customs and border control.  Believe it or not, you are at their mercy in a foreign port.  Why would an RC officer take custody of your children to take them back on the ship? And furthermore, why would you allow yourself to be separated from your children?  Personally, I think you are angry with the wrong entity and the entity the deserves your ire (Israeli Customs & Border Protection) couldn't give a rat's patootie that you're annoyed.  

[Xaa]

You aren't interacting with Royal Caribbean here, this is a fan site.

Royal has no authority over the customs officials from any country.  CBP does things how they do things.  I'm sorry this happened to you, but it wasn't Royal Caribbean that did it and they don't have any answers and can't offer any assurances about your passport.  That is not what they do.

[Zacharius]

Yeah, unfortunately, this is purely an Israeli immigration issue (not customs like many people are saying here, but immigration like you say). Royal Caribbean has no power and little to no influence over the immigration systems and officials of sovereign nations, and Israel can be particularly tough on those trying to enter, even for friendly countries like the UK. (I once entered Israel on my Namibian passport instead of my US passport and it was...not friendly). Sorry for your experience. 

[tjcruisers]

While I'm sorry to hear this happened, your ire is misdirected. RCL is not at fault, nor could they do anything.  Given privacy laws they wouldn't be able to inquire what was wrong, in the end that's up to your wife to inquire at customs. Royal can't deal with immigration issue for it's passengers.

[wordell1]

This is not Royal's fault, however I do agree that there should be an officer onboard who could have gotten an answer as to what the issue was.

[KristiZ]

47 minutes ago, wordell1 said:

This is not Royal's fault, however I do agree that there should be an officer onboard who could have gotten an answer as to what the issue was.

Actually, Immigration in any country will not tell the cruise line/airline/tour company anything about a person's case 99% of the time. It's both a privacy thing and a way to ensure that the country's policies do not become public knowledge. It's why they often won't tell the person directly what the issue is as well.

[12thman]

Few years ago when a cruise to China was listed did some research and also asked my travel agent and it's up the the individual to make sure they have the correct documents before entering the country the cruise ship will enter. Here's the statement found in the FAQ'S:

What should I consider when booking a cruise visiting international ports?

 

 

Given the events over the last few years, having the proper travel documents has been a considerable concern of many guests prior to enjoying a carefree vacation. Passport, visa and inoculation regulations may vary by destination and may change from time to time. For your protection, your passport expiration date needs to be at least six (6) months after the sailing termination date. It is the sole responsibility of the guest to obtain and have available when necessary the appropriate valid travel and health documents such as passports, visas, vaccination certificates, etc., that are necessary for air travel, disembarkation at the various ports of call and re-entry into the appropriate country of origin.

 

P.S. This is the UNOFFICIAL blog of Royal caribbean no one connected with the site works for Royal caribbean. 

[jrey51]

So your desired outcome is to have "RC Officer overseeing immigration" of a foreign, sovereign entity, or to have a RCL staff member take custody of your children and separate them from you, while you and your wife remain stuck in a custom's office for an indeterminate about of time? 

I understand this was a frustrating experience for you, but I think you may be overestimate the control RCL has over the customs process... 

[Atlantix2000]

2 hours ago, Squid said:

We were told that my wife's passport had some sort of problem and we were all taken aside in the port terminal and told to wait while they investigated further.  And so we waited. For almost 2 hours.

And finally, a rude woman came out and shouted a name, not my wife's name, but her middle name. She said it in such a way we didn't even know she was trying to say 'Laura' because in her thick Israeli accent it sounded like she was calling for someone called 'Lara'. A plausible name for someone else in the queue we thought.

After 30 seconds I said to my wife, "maybe she is getting your middle name wrong", and so she said to them "I think you mean B***** Laura T*******?".

The now angry Israeli official squared-up to my wife, in her face, and shouted "well you have been sat here for two hours because of how you don't like the way I said your name", which startled my children, the entire queue of staff who stared in disbelief and at that point she walked off. My wife started crying, in front of our children, in front of 200 of your staff, and again nobody helped. Nobody said anything.

Given the reaction of the Israeli official, it kind of sounds like they may have been calling your wife's name for awhile and you only noticed at the 2 hour mark when they shouted it.  Since you just returned to the ship at that point, you don't even know if there was a simple miscommunication or an actual problem with your wife's passport.  You don't know (or at least don't state) that you were denied entry to the country, so I'm not sure what you want from Royal.

[twangster]

Once you step off the ship Royal has no authority to act on your behalf or become involved with a local in-country issue. 

If you fly to Canada and a Canadian CBSA official doesn't like something would you expect a crew member from the airline to come running to your aid?  If so, you have the wrong expectation about what a carrier, either a ship or a plane, is responsible for. 

Royal has no legal authority to provide aid with immigration in a foreign country.  The 200 crew you saw lined up were going through the immigration process themselves.  They were not standing around looking for something to do.  They can't provide services like water or anything in a terminal of a foreign country.  Any attempt to inject themselves would not be welcomed by a foreign immigration officer. 

This notion that Royal is accountable for your every minute off the ship is an improper expectation. 

 

[Ryan79]

I am baffled why you think this is a RC issue or problem for them to resolve. Nothing you encountered had ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING RC can control. You were dealing with agents of a sovereign foreign government. If I flew to GB and got stopped, delayed and screamed at by your Customs folks…..is that Delta Airlines fault in ANY way?? How do you think this is any different? 

[teddy]

Note to self:  Make sure to have all my ducks in a row if I ever travel to Israel.

[BennyandBo]

Royal has no say in what goes on in customs at any port. I agree with what the others have said. 

[Ray]

I think what OG poster was getting at was the fact he and his family were in a strange country scared shitless and they just wanted someone from RC also waiting to step forward as they hadn't a clue what was going on. 

The post ends BE CAREFUL so the post is not intended for RC HQ it's for readers of this blog as a warning for what he and his family went through in the hope it doesn't happen to others. 

 

[twangster]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

I think what OG poster was getting at was the fact he and his family were in a strange country scared shitless and they just wanted someone from RC also waiting to step forward as they hadn't a clue what was going on. 

The post ends BE CAREFUL so the post is not intended for RC HQ it's for readers of this blog as a warning for what he and his family went through in the hope it doesn't happen to others. 

 

If this is how Israeli immigration officials behave then I imagine those crew engine mechanics, galley cooks, painters and window washers were also scared shitless.  

[twangster]

This is how I now picture the Israeli immigration process.  

[Ampurp85]

I have not cruised to Israel, but I did visit Egypt and cruise. They are strict and no nonsense. It could have been like others said where they were indeed frustrated that they were calling for OP's wife and she had not responded. But I fail to see how this has anything to do with Royal and is anything but a sort of cautionary tale on how to be more prepared when visiting places with different cultures and customs. 

[Swar]

Agreed that RCL has no legal standing in this situation. However, if passengers/employees are routinely being disparaged and held up, then RCL should have an obligation to at least protest through diplomatic or other channels.

[BennyandBo]

1 hour ago, Swar said:

Agreed that RCL has no legal standing in this situation. However, if passengers/employees are routinely being disparaged and held up, then RCL should have an obligation to at least protest through diplomatic or other channels.

Royal is under no obligation to protest. They are a business, not diplomats. Doing anything would get them zero. Nobody is being disparage by customs in Israel. They are known for being the toughest most no nonsense militant country to get into. This is not new or unusual in any way whatsoever for Israel. There laws are militant strict. They negotiate with know one on anything. Due some research before you travel. 

[Ray]

9 hours ago, twangster said:

If this is how Israeli immigration officials behave then I imagine those crew engine mechanics, galley cooks, painters and window washers were also scared shitless.  

100 % agree 

However there are a lot of questions that come to mind due to this situation.

Passengers cleared customs to enter country and cleared customs at port to board ship so no issues flagged up, it was later during cruise that an issue arose..so

If it was near departing time and passengers were not onboard would RC then have taken action to find out what was happening or would they just have left passengers to fend for themselves putting them down as having missed the ships departing time? 

If the did check on passengers and discovered what was happening Would they have waited or just sailed into the night leaving them to fend for themselves? 

If passengers are on an RC excursion and get held up at customs with RC excursion rep standing behind them would this have made a difference? 

I fully understand that NO company has an say in what Customs do in any country but it would be interesting to know what RC would do in the event of something happening outwith a passengers control. 

 

[PhillyLady]

Yes, this can be a difficult situation for the traveler.  Once I took the Amtrak train to Canada, and customs called three or four different people to the front of the train, looked at their paperwork, and then kicked them off right there at the border!  None of the staff or the other passengers had any idea why, and we all had to sit and wait until the train was cleared before we could depart again.

A few times my brother had some cruise port issues in the past, as his name was similar to someone on some kind of list.  You have to be pleasant and cooperate.

I do NOT think I would have stood there for two hours waiting and doing nothing. After about fifteen minutes I would have inquired (nicely) with an official what the issue was and what would be my next steps.  Perhaps the RC staff had no idea about your issues and in any case, as others have stated, there would be little they could actually do.

[Ray]

15 hours ago, Ryan79 said:

I am baffled why you think this is a RC issue or problem for them to resolve. Nothing you encountered had ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING RC can control. You were dealing with agents of a sovereign foreign government. If I flew to GB and got stopped, delayed and screamed at by your Customs folks…..is that Delta Airlines fault in ANY way?? How do you think this is any different? 

Maybe because it says on RC Website T&Cs that they will assist! 

4.7 ASSISTANCE

If you are in difficulty while on holiday and require assistance with health services, local authorities or consular assistance, please call us on +44 (0)344 493 2063 for information (from overseas, additional call charges may apply). Royal Caribbean may charge a reasonable fee for such services. Onboard please refer to the Guest Services Desk or the Medical Centre.

 

[Squid]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

Maybe because it says on RC Website T&Cs that they will assist! 

4.7 ASSISTANCE

If you are in difficulty while on holiday and require assistance with health services, local authorities or consular assistance, please call us on +44 (0)344 493 2063 for information (from overseas, additional call charges may apply). Royal Caribbean may charge a reasonable fee for such services. Onboard please refer to the Guest Services Desk or the Medical Centre.

 

Well, well, well! 

 

And RC do indeed have some part to play in this, after all, they could decide to stop bringing thousands of tourists to a country that seems to be trying to boost its tourism offer.  If they can't properly, respectfully,  process a family like mine then RC ought to rethink the Israel stop. 

 

We weren't the only ones held-up.  A lovely British woman in a wheelchair, with her family member, were also with us, as was a woman from Jordan.   We all spoke to each other.  They did ask for updates but were simply stared-at and then ignored by officials.  

No, we did no ignore two hours of mistaken name-calling.  We were, obviously, paying wry close attention to the officials and what they were saying, as they were saying very little.  

 

 

[BennyandBo]

4 hours ago, Ray said:

Maybe because it says on RC Website T&Cs that they will assist! 

4.7 ASSISTANCE

If you are in difficulty while on holiday and require assistance with health services, local authorities or consular assistance, please call us on +44 (0)344 493 2063 for information (from overseas, additional call charges may apply). Royal Caribbean may charge a reasonable fee for such services. Onboard please refer to the Guest Services Desk or the Medical Centre.

 

There is nothing I am reading by the OP that would have required third party assistance. (Consul, etc). This is the way the government in Israel operates. Not just customs, but the entire government. At most there was a sarcastic comment made by an Israeli customs agent after a 2 hour mistake regarding last name / middle name etc. To which customs in Israel would do nothing if pressed. It's unfortunate, but it is now in the past. They are trained to be stone faced and intimidating. If they kept calling out my middle name I too would hesitate to confront and correct them. But it truly is just how the country operates. Due research on Israel, it's all right there to find and see. 

[Ray]

44 minutes ago, BennyandBo said:

There is nothing I am reading by the OP that would have required third party assistance. (Consul, etc). This is the way the government in Israel operates. Not just customs, but the entire government. At most there was a sarcastic comment made by an Israeli customs agent after a 2 hour mistake regarding last name / middle name etc. To which customs in Israel would do nothing if pressed. It's unfortunate, but it is now in the past. They are trained to be stone faced and intimidating. If they kept calling out my middle name I too would hesitate to confront and correct them. But it truly is just how the country operates. Due research on Israel, it's all right there to find and see. 

I have travelled enough to know how Border security works and how difficult it can be at times especially if you have to tick the box for previous criminal convictions ( a long time ago lol ) 

Also OG poster never said they needed third party assistance from Consul etc what they did say was they got no help from RC. 

As pointed out in RC t&Cs i posted RC will assist with help in matters concerning local Authorities which i am pretty sure Border control would be part of. 

Fact it was Israel Doesn't matter could have been anywhere this happened 

[smokeybandit]

If you got arrested in Israel RC might be able to help find you a lawyer.

But they can't do anything about border screenings.

[ChessE4]

How about contacting your embassy or passport office to discuss alleged flag? May help on next trip.

[Swar]

7 hours ago, BennyandBo said:

Royal is under no obligation to protest. They are a business, not diplomats. Doing anything would get them zero. Nobody is being disparage by customs in Israel. They are known for being the toughest most no nonsense militant country to get into. This is not new or unusual in any way whatsoever for Israel. There laws are militant strict. They negotiate with know one on anything. Due some research before you travel. 

The original poster stated that the customs officials were saying bad things about passengers, in Hebrew ,to see if the cruisers could understand them - disparagement. I think a business should look out for the interest of its customers. Working on international committees and living in the Middle East and Europe for years taught me that their Governments are VERY sensitive to perceptions of bias and unfairness. All cruise lines have Port Agreements with the various Countries. These agreements spell out specific rights and obligations not only for the ship, but also for the crew and passengers. I've seen a lot of people complain about bad treatment by RCL. Complaining, by RCL, to unfair or arbitrary practices is about the same. Saying that, know before you go, be respectful, and never "demand" fair treatment in a foreign Port. 

[Ray]

28 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

If you got arrested in Israel RC might be able to help find you a lawyer.

But they can't do anything about border screenings.

Your correct 

If someone flies to UK on Delta and gets stopped at Customs thats NOT deltas problem 

But if someone flies to any country clears customs to enter country then clears customs to board ship then potentially has border control board ship to check all relevant documents, visas etc to enable passengers to get off ship at a port of call gets stopped trying to reboard ship they got off of only hours before then surely thats an issue thats needs looked at? 

[BennyandBo]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

I have travelled enough to know how Border security works and how difficult it can be at times especially if you have to tick the box for previous criminal convictions ( a long time ago lol ) 

Also OG poster never said they needed third party assistance from Consul etc what they did say was they got no help from RC. 

As pointed out in RC t&Cs i posted RC will assist with help in matters concerning local Authorities which i am pretty sure Border control would be part of. 

Fact it was Israel Doesn't matter could have been anywhere this happened 

I never said the OP said they needed assistance from Consul etc. Never miss quote me.

Royal will assist in matters concerning local Authorities. 99.9 % of the time that doesn't include boarder agent problems. They were rude to me, made smart ass comments, etc. To expect a business to do anything about this is laughable. It would be a total and complete waste of time. What would they want? Apologies? Compensation? Come on. Any country a joke. Israel even bigger joke.

It matters that it was Israel to me because I strongly suspect many would be intimidated by Israeli agents and would let time pass before questioning anything. (Calling out wrong name etc). And there is nothing wrong with that. Feeling too intimidated to speak up etc. 

But bottom line is what was there to be done by Royal? Nothing. And Israel (And other countries) can be harsh intimidating places to go through customs at. They are what they are. And being well educated in advance on the country you are traveling to will make for less drama, intimidation, hurt feelings, and good customer service type expectations. 

[TXcruzer]

12 hours ago, Swar said:

Agreed that RCL has no legal standing in this situation. However, if passengers/employees are routinely being disparaged and held up, then RCL should have an obligation to at least protest through diplomatic or other channels.

Protest?  This is a sarcastic post, right?         Right??

[WAYNO]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:18 AM, Squid said:

 

be careful 

 

I very much appreciate the tough dilemma in which you found yourself.  I also think somebody could have given you some support or guidance, even though they have no diplomatic power.

Although of  far less gravity, I am a fish out of water even in the American Northeast. 

 

And I think you found too, this site is not the place to expect any support.  This is a very tough crowd.

 

Thanks for the reminder.  When you're away from home, other places definitely play by different rules.

[Swar]

4 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

Protest?  This is a sarcastic post, right?         Right??

Not at all sarcastic. Not to disparage anyone, but RCL is in constant contact with all the host port Countries. Take it easy. I'm out of this conversation.

[Ray]

16 hours ago, BennyandBo said:

I never said the OP said they needed assistance from Consul etc. Never miss quote me.

 

I never said you did! So please don't miss quote me either! 

[Ray]

22 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

If you got arrested in Israel RC might be able to help find you a lawyer.

But they can't do anything about border screenings.

Your correct no one can interfere with any countries border controls 

However they do say they can assist with help for local Authorities which im pretty certain border controls would fall under ( if not RC should say Local Authorities except border controls on their website ) Assist can come in many forms be it someone to translate or just be there to show face! Don't think OG poster wanted RC to send John Maclean from DieHard to storm the offices more a Mrs Doubtfire to put the kids at ease. 

[NotPayinExtra]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

Your correct no one can interfere with any countries border controls 

However they do say they can assist with help for local Authorities which im pretty certain border controls would fall under ( if not RC should say Local Authorities except border controls on their website ) Assist can come in many forms be it someone to translate or just be there to show face! Don't think OG poster wanted RC to send John Maclean from DieHard to storm the offices more a Mrs Doubtfire to put the kids at ease. 

"Mrs Doubtfire". LOL. Yes, Royal Caribbean should provide hand holding services when going through and dealing with customs. All because customs agents were rude and kept them waiting? Nobody was arrested. Nobody was accused of drug smuggling. This is ridiculous. 

[Bob_KY]

Totally agree with previous posts about what RCL could do concerning border security.  Unlike Delta Airlines, Cruiselines offer experiences by docking at different countries.  My expectation is monitoring trends that may interfere with that paid  experience.  If common problems at particular Ports were trending, I would try to manage expectations and see if there could be a preventable measure (maybe a simple warning or do/don't list for Customs at a particular port).  Another benefit from trend monitoring could be the drafting future port support agreements.  Making great memories during a RCL cruise means higher profits.  

[Squid]

4 hours ago, Bob_KY said:

Totally agree with previous posts about what RCL could do concerning border security.  Unlike Delta Airlines, Cruiselines offer experiences by docking at different countries.  My expectation is monitoring trends that may interfere with that paid  experience.  If common problems at particular Ports were trending, I would try to manage expectations and see if there could be a preventable measure (maybe a simple warning or do/don't list for Customs at a particular port).  Another benefit from trend monitoring could be the drafting future port support agreements.  Making great memories during a RCL cruise means higher profits.  

I've got the feeling that this wouldn't be welcomed if it meant Israel were highlighted as the main port where most problems were flagged.  

I've been to many ports in many countries, and many airports.  I've never seen other people pulled aside, or maybe I've never noticed them, but seemingly everyone is nodded through.  Not in Ashdod. At least 4 other groups affected in the 2 hours we were there.