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New menus to be rolled out in early 2023


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https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2022/12/12/royal-caribbean-will-introduce-new-main-dining-room-menu-january

 

I'd really love to know what kind of feedback they got and how they've made changes as a result.

 

This I don't get:

 

Adding to Mr. Bayley's point, Mr. D'Souza explained the issue with how long dinner can sometimes take, "today, our dining experience takes 120 plus minutes, in some cases for larger parties, at least 95 minutes for a party two. That's a really long dining experience."

 

I've never ever come close to this. We're always out in less than an hour.

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Most of our cruises (on Royal at least) have become the shorter weekend cruises over the last few years and we just dont bother with the dining room anymore. It's easier just to get buffet/pizza/sandwiches when we are in the mood and not deal with dressing up, etc.

On the couple of occasions we have done the dining room it has been at least 90 minutes with a lot of "wait" time rather than a steady flow, only reason we go know is if we have travel companions that are interested in the experience.

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Should be interesting to see what it looks like.  They specifically mentioned special requests as being a problem so that may be something that goes away.

I would be happy if there were more than just a few menus that are the same all the time.  I'd like a little variety from cruise to cruise and also think that a menu in the Caribbean should be different from an Alaska cruise - how about finding some locally sourced menu items for different itineraries?  In my opinion they could both simplify and improve the menus at the same time.

My guess is that this is just a cost cutting move and the new menus will reflect that.

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40 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I've never ever come close to this. We're always out in less than an hour.

Do you ask for a quick(er) meal? Also, MTD or traditional?

I love the MDR, but I cant ever recall being in and out in under an hour.  75-90 mins has been what I would have considered a "quick" meal in MDR without skipping any courses.

For context, I've done traditional.

@smokeybandit I think you're going to enjoy this week's podcast episode. Going to have a lot of extra context to the change.

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While I love the classics menu, MDR does make it difficult to also see the shows and there has also been a lot of talk lately of the food quality going downhill. We last sailed in July and could not ever count on getting out drinks refilled during dinner, so the servers must have been stretched pretty thin, as well. Hopefully the sacrifice of the larger menu provides a better overall experience. 
 

And hopefully they don’t charge for extra lobsters on lobster night. That would be a travesty. 

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That's interesting. We just got off a cruise on Dec 4. We have another cruise booked on Feb 4. Just looked at the menu for the Feb 4 cruise and it's exactly the same as our last cruise.

One thing we noticed is that typically it takes longer to eat on dress up nights than on port nights. They tend to serve the good stuff (prime rib and lobster) on dress up nights and a lot of people dress up and go to the MDR on those night. Port nights people are tired or just back from excursion and often go to the buffet.

And just an FYI concerning lobster night. They allowed you to order two lobsters up front but if you wanted a third you had to eat the first two and then order another. No charge for additional lobsters or additional entrees.

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I think Mr Bayley and Mr D'Souza are mischaracterizing the problem. I think today's MDR service takes 60 - 75 minutes. The amount of dining time is determined in a small part by what table your are seated at; tables that are at the front of the house take longer to get the food from the galley to the table. Waitstaff at the rear of the house don't even use trolleys. But what really prolongs a meal in the MDR? The amount of conversation during the meal and that time after the meal is served. When Bayley claims that dinner can take 2 hours for a large party and an hour and a half for a party of two???? That's only because of the length of conversation afterwards, not the cooking time of the food. 

I think the menus of the MDR have needed to change for some time. Not because of the length of time it takes for breakfast, lunch, or dinner but because people's tastes have changed. It's not about overabundance anymore. People are watching what they eat and the amount they eat. When  Mr D'Souza says "...it's not manageable anymore with the amount of special requests" I sincerely hope he recognizes that passengers are really requesting food or the preparation of food the way they normally eat. There is no need for an exit survey, these passengers have been telling Royal that the MDR has needed change for a long time now.

Nobody likes when their local grocery store rearranges their shelves. This shuffling of the MDR menus is going to be a lot like that. I just wish management would come out and say it like it is: We are scaling back the menus so there will be less choices on them and we may restrict the amount we are going to serve you for free. How long you chose sit there? That's up to you.

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1 hour ago, bobroo said:

I think today's MDR service takes 60 - 75 minutes

I'd say over the course of a 7-night cruise, some/most nights it's around there.  But I'm willing to bet there will be at least a couple nights where it's closer to 120 minutes.

The first night in MDR Is almost always longer for some reason.

It's consistently inconsistent.

1 hour ago, bobroo said:

But what really prolongs a meal in the MDR? The amount of conversation during the meal and that time after the meal is served. When Bayley claims that dinner can take 2 hours for a large party and an hour and a half for a party of two???? That's only because of the length of conversation afterwards, not the cooking time of the food. 

I think there's some truth to what you say, but it seems to me there are some times when the appetizers come out incredibly fast, and then the entrees take forever.

These gaps are when you notice your waiter isn't around anywhere because he/she is in the galley waiting for orders. Then they bring the food over to the serving station where they look at all the tickets to figure out who gets what.

I think Royal sees this as an opportunity to make it better.  And by better, they mean more consistent. 

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Lovely, so now all the options I'd get many nights are gone. Thanks, RC, making me feel really loved here. Oh wait, they only cared about the opinion of "new customers." And, what, now you can't ask for anything to be changed? Can't ask for anything additional? How long until you can't even have multiple dishes to try out? How long until you don't get to choose more than two options? Heck, if they really wanted the MDR faster, just have one dish that's already on the table when you get there. I know I'm being ridiculous and I'm sure I'll get over it, but I hate seeing options scaled back. To me, it just looks like taking away value and once companies start doing this stuff, it doesn't end.

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12 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I read that to mean you can't ask for something completely off the wall different from what's on the menu because those requests were slowing things down. And that makes total sense.

How many really did that, though? I think that's a cop-out, personally. I have a feeling it's just a primer for further changes in the future to add more restrictions.

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Changes in menu don't necessarily equate to less options or a less enjoyable experience. It means "different" - not worse or better. The menus haven't even rolled out yet and controversy is already being sowed. The menus on cruise ships have changed more than a few times over the past 4 or 5 decades. I know people who still miss the midnight buffet. 🙂  I'm sure those with special dietary restrictions (low-salt, low-fat, vegan, etc.) will still be accommodated, no one will rush you through your meal if you don't want to be rushed, and no one will prevent you from asking for a quicker service if that's what you want. I'm also sure there will be enough choices each night to satisfy beef, fish, or chicken preferences. On previous cruises, if there was a menu in the MDR that was less than exciting for us, we'd go to Windjammer, choose that night for specialty dining, or order room service. There are more than enough choices when it comes to food when you're cruising. That will never change.

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I personally think some people are building it up to be way worse than it will actually be. There may no longer be a classic menu, that doesn't mean that each night won't have one of two mainstay items that would be considered classic. This change doesn't mean you will not be able to find anything you love; it just means consistency. I very much would prefer things taste the same across ships. I also would like to actually get drinks on time and not wait 40min between app and entree and then another 40 before I get dessert. 

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3 hours ago, BowTieBrigade said:

While I love the classics menu, MDR does make it difficult to also see the shows and there has also been a lot of talk lately of the food quality going downhill. We last sailed in July and could not ever count on getting out drinks refilled during dinner, so the servers must have been stretched pretty thin, as well. Hopefully the sacrifice of the larger menu provides a better overall experience. 
 

And hopefully they don’t charge for extra lobsters on lobster night. That would be a travesty. 

No lobster on our 5N cruise out of Galveston this weekend.  No duck, either.  

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2 hours ago, bobroo said:

I think Mr Bayley and Mr D'Souza are mischaracterizing the problem. I think today's MDR service takes 60 - 75 minutes. The amount of dining time is determined in a small part by what table your are seated at; tables that are at the front of the house take longer to get the food from the galley to the table. Waitstaff at the rear of the house don't even use trolleys. But what really prolongs a meal in the MDR? The amount of conversation during the meal and that time after the meal is served. When Bayley claims that dinner can take 2 hours for a large party and an hour and a half for a party of two???? That's only because of the length of conversation afterwards, not the cooking time of the food. 

My experience on Oasis and Allure this year does not jibe with your observations at all unfortunately.

Traveling solo on Oasis and seated at a table of other solo travelers, our meal service took 2 hours or MORE each day. I was going batsh*t crazy. It wasn't the conversation - we had very little in common. The service was just abysmal and confused. The waitstaff at all levels seemed completely under water.

Traveling solo on Allure, I requested a table to myself. The first night, I ordered a martini and it took service to almost 2 hours. Definitely not a "too much conversation" issue. I did not order a cocktail any other night to speed up service, but each night still took a good 75-85 minutes. Solo. And I am not indecisive when placing an order. The waitstaff was absolutely lovely and extremely hardworking on Allure, I thought.

I don't have experience cruising in the "before times" and I do love the classic menu, but I'm up for some revisions if it helps streamline service. As a (long ago) former waitress, I can't imagine having my entire station seated at once and I do appreciate the thoughtful attention to detail the staff tries to provide. We can only move forward & let them know what we think along the way...

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26 minutes ago, FloatyBoaty said:

My experience on Oasis and Allure this year does not jibe with your observations at all unfortunately.

Traveling solo on Oasis and seated at a table of other solo travelers, our meal service took 2 hours or MORE each day. I was going batsh*t crazy. It wasn't the conversation - we had very little in common. The service was just abysmal and confused. The waitstaff at all levels seemed completely under water.

Traveling solo on Allure, I requested a table to myself. The first night, I ordered a martini and it took service to almost 2 hours. Definitely not a "too much conversation" issue. I did not order a cocktail any other night to speed up service, but each night still took a good 75-85 minutes. Solo. And I am not indecisive when placing an order. The waitstaff was absolutely lovely and extremely hardworking on Allure, I thought.

I don't have experience cruising in the "before times" and I do love the classic menu, but I'm up for some revisions if it helps streamline service. As a (long ago) former waitress, I can't imagine having my entire station seated at once and I do appreciate the thoughtful attention to detail the staff tries to provide. We can only move forward & let them know what we think along the way...

Why would ordering a cocktail increase service time?

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15 minutes ago, Lexster said:

Why would ordering a cocktail increase service time?

The assistant waiter was in charge of that and she disappeared for 15 minutes or so. She said the line at the MDR bar was super long - so whether that was not staffed or what, I do not know. Either way, their order of service evidently meant I didn't get an appetizer until I got a bread basket or a beverage or something (the assistant waiter being in charge of beverages and bread baskets) - and so I just brought my own in with me after that or waited until afterwards. She really was a darling though, and once I went with lemonade with dinner and decaf/cream with dessert, just brought it without even asking (and still well over an hour for solo dinner).

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13 minutes ago, FloatyBoaty said:

The assistant waiter was in charge of that and she disappeared for 15 minutes or so. She said the line at the MDR bar was super long - so whether that was not staffed or what, I do not know. Either way, their order of service evidently meant I didn't get an appetizer until I got a bread basket or a beverage or something (the assistant waiter being in charge of beverages and bread baskets) - and so I just brought my own in with me after that or waited until afterwards. She really was a darling though, and once I went with lemonade with dinner and decaf/cream with dessert, just brought it without even asking (and still well over an hour for solo dinner).

That sounds more like a process issue. Like...yeah I'm sure you want a drink, but I don't think it needs to be a hard-and-fast rule that the guest MUST have a drink OR bread beforehand.

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A number of years ago there were beverage waiters in the MDR.  They are long gone.  Now the regular servers have to handle food and beverage.  The overall cut in the number of servers, in general, adds to the problem.  The root cause of all of the problems related to slower MDR dining time is the lack of service staff. Cutting the menu and reducing the options diners have is attempting to address the symptom and not the root cause.

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1 hour ago, FloatyBoaty said:

The assistant waiter was in charge of that and she disappeared for 15 minutes or so. She said the line at the MDR bar was super long - so whether that was not staffed or what, I do not know. Either way, their order of service evidently meant I didn't get an appetizer until I got a bread basket or a beverage or something (the assistant waiter being in charge of beverages and bread baskets) - and so I just brought my own in with me after that or waited until afterwards. She really was a darling though, and once I went with lemonade with dinner and decaf/cream with dessert, just brought it without even asking (and still well over an hour for solo dinner).

That's not the only thing that will slow service.  Order 2 appetizers, they'll bring one and when your finished, you'll wait for them to bring the next one, that then slows the delivery of your entrée.  Another one be seated at a communal table, 6 top 3 couples, last couple arrives 10 minutes after the other 2,  then they also take longer to finish there courses.

I agree with @Matt that dinner in the MDR is more likely to be 75-90+ mins without skipping any courses.  That is what we experienced as we first started sailing almost every time.  After a 2-1/2 hour experience, we decided we were done with shared tables (other reasons also).

Tables for 2 were still in the 75+ minute range.  Like I think @smokeybandit,we don't want to spend that much time in the dining room, so over time I have been able to get it down to under 45 minutes constantly (I had one at 24 minutes in Oct).  First night, I let our waiter know that when we sit down we not only know what we want (so no menu needed) and don't want to hear suggestions.  I also make it clear that we expect to order shortly after sitting down, don't need a bread basket and very rarely order desert.

It works for us.  On the new menu / test menu, we each saw atleast one if not 2 choices we would be happy with, so bring it on, can't wait to try these selections.

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5 hours ago, jticarruthers said:

Most of our cruises (on Royal at least) have become the shorter weekend cruises over the last few years and we just dont bother with the dining room anymore. It's easier just to get buffet/pizza/sandwiches when we are in the mood and not deal with dressing up, etc.

On the couple of occasions we have done the dining room it has been at least 90 minutes with a lot of "wait" time rather than a steady flow, only reason we go know is if we have travel companions that are interested in the experience.

We were just on the Enchantment in September and the service in the MDR was the worst we have ever experienced in close to 40 cruises.  Each night was close to two hours+.  Having said that, the issue wasn't the menu it was clearly the wait staff.  It wasn't a matter of being understaffed as our wait staff only had a few tables and many nights several tables were no shows.  The wait staff just seemed ill trained and unmotivated.  The sad thing was, both our waiter and assistant waiter said they both had been on several other Royal ships over the years.  We were on the Symphony in November, the week before the new menus were rolled out, and we had the best service in the MDR that we have ever had on a Royal ship.  The service and food in the MDR were amazing.  Ironically, while our waiter had worked on several other Royal ships before, it was our assistant waiter's first time on a ship and actually her first time away from home.  Our waiter and the rest of the MDR staff brought her up to speed quickly and she seemed like a seasoned pro.  We laughed that she could have run circles around the staff on the Enchantment.  We dinned in the main dining room four nights on the Symphony and specialty restaurants three nights (150, Wonderland and Hooked).  The meals we had in the MDR were equal to or superior to those we received in the specialty restaurants.  As a matter of fact, 150 was understaffed the night we dined there and the wait staff's rushing and uneasiness actually made us uncomfortable and took away from what we hoped to be a relaxing dining experience.  We'll honor Mr. D'Souza's request, keep an open mind and give the new menus a chance as we have several upcoming cruises booked with Royal.  I do hope that we're wrong, but it does appear that the menus are being blamed for Royal's real problems that it's either unaware of or more likely doesn't want to acknowledge, that people's displeasure appears to be rooted in training, employee motivation, staffing levels and cost cutting.  What's more disheartening is to hear statements like the following from no other than Mr. Bayley:

 "We always do find that when you do these changes, you get, especially with our loyal customers who are very much used to their routine, we do get more feedback and sometimes negative feedback from our loyal customers because they like, they enjoy the way it was,"  "But we also find that our new customers and new to cruise enjoy the new menu."  

So I hope I'm misunderstanding but it sure sounds to me like Royal's attitude is "we really don't value or appreciate all the cruises and all the money that you've spent with us over the "decades", the cruise industry's bread and butter used to be repeat passengers but that's changing, people new to cruising are flooding in faster than ever before so either lower your standards and conform or there are other people who will". 

Enough of my rant, the reality is the only constant in life is change, we need be flexible and embrace it.  However, sometimes as people mature and grow and change, they grow apart from what they used to love and need to find things that are more in line with their current wants and needs.  Let's be honest, Royal is not hear to make all of us on these boards happy, it's hear to make money.  We booked a couple Celebrity Cruises over Black Friday, we'll see what changes Royal has made there and who knows, maybe it's time to sample some lines outside of the Royal umbrella.  

       

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4 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I read that to mean you can't ask for something completely off the wall different from what's on the menu because those requests were slowing things down. And that makes total sense.

 

4 hours ago, Lexster said:

How many really did that, though? I think that's a cop-out, personally. I have a feeling it's just a primer for further changes in the future to add more restrictions.

I agree with @smokeybandit that the off the wall requests are the issue, not the "I'm gluten free" or "I'm allergic" requests.

I truly believe there's lots of it happening. Not everyone, but enough it slows things down in the grand scheme.

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Personally, I feel you need hip boots to read this article. It's first and foremost cost cutting at It's boldest. 

The claim a few weeks ago was this was just a trial on one ship with no fleet wide plan in the works. And some actually believed that. LoL.

They claimed to base future plans on feedback. Yet, it would seem the "test menu" was the general idea all along. Would be very surprised if it is altered much between now and January. Not holding much hope on feedback being given much consideration. Note: Would love to be proven wrong.

I think people want good food over speed. Well, they want both. But quality food first, speed second. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. 

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4 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

A number of years ago there were beverage waiters in the MDR.  They are long gone.  Now the regular servers have to handle food and beverage.  The overall cut in the number of servers, in general, adds to the problem.  The root cause of all of the problems related to slower MDR dining time is the lack of service staff. Cutting the menu and reducing the options diners have is attempting to address the symptom and not the root cause.

4 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

Because there is no longer a dedicated “bar runner” one of your waiters needs to go to the bar; which is outside of the MDR 

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Post covid I've started ordering drinks before dinner and bringing them in myself.  If I want another, I'll get up and go to the nearest bar myself.

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I bring my glass of wine & hubby gets a diet ginger ale from the freestyle machine.  Getting a beverage does seem to be something of an issue or at least it was on Explorer last month.  Meal length was all over the place and got worse as the cruise went on.

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Will be interested in the new menu assuming they don't go weird on it.

In term of dining taking 120 minutes, never even cam close to that. Usually we're out in roughly an hour if it's me and my wife, maybe 75 minutes if the kids come. Having said that we do usually know what we're going to order before we arrive. One observation on my last cruise is how busy the wait staff are. In our case we were done in close to 45 minutes many nights. We would be getting our desert when the table beside us were still working on their appetizers (even thought we got there at the same time). Only difference is their waiter had all their tables full, for ours we were the only table to show up most nights

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Okay, so since I keep seeing this and I saw someone say they speed-ran through a 24 minute dinner, I feel like I must be weird or something If I go to Texas Roadhouse or something, I can pretty much expect at least 60-70 minutes. Do people expect /less/ time for a pretty much formal dinner? I don't see people complaining about how long specialty dining takes, which is often about the same amount of time. If you don't want that, go to the Windjammer or something. I LIKE taking my time. I don't want to feel rushed through a fancy dinner. Hell, when I eat AT HOME, I generally take 45 minutes because I'm not rushing through eating. Do people just like getting indigestion or something?

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19 hours ago, jabberwk said:

Changes in menu don't necessarily equate to less options or a less enjoyable experience. It means "different" - not worse or better. The menus haven't even rolled out yet and controversy is already being sowed. The menus on cruise ships have changed more than a few times over the past 4 or 5 decades. I know people who still miss the midnight buffet. 🙂  I'm sure those with special dietary restrictions (low-salt, low-fat, vegan, etc.) will still be accommodated, no one will rush you through your meal if you don't want to be rushed, and no one will prevent you from asking for a quicker service if that's what you want. I'm also sure there will be enough choices each night to satisfy beef, fish, or chicken preferences. On previous cruises, if there was a menu in the MDR that was less than exciting for us, we'd go to Windjammer, choose that night for specialty dining, or order room service. There are more than enough choices when it comes to food when you're cruising. That will never change.

I would agree with you, but I do think there will some items eliminated from the menu. The whole concept here is to speed up service and hotter food and save costs. 

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Enchantment this past week. Shared table.  Wine ordered upon being seated and delivered at dessert time.  Main meal, delivered “whenever “….as in some at the table had a meal, others not.  2nd order of wine brought out, not asked for-they did take it away. Wine brought, but wrong wine-not even the correct color! Lol    Some Diamond drinks signed for, others not…it was comical.  I finally signed for a drink and was charged for it (despite it being a zero cost on the receipt as it should have been).  Lobster-you could only order one at a time.  I was fine with that I only eat one, but it came out covered in butter, so I had to send it back-next one undercooked-I gave up,  I think it’s still amazing when they ask for “the magic number” on the survey when clearly service is the big issue.  

I also think they are looking at cost savings, not a quicker service.  Time will tell if there are “that many” complaints and whether or not they listen.   

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I did a lot of work in food service in my youth including working enormous banquets.  The fewer items you offer, the more efficient the kitchen can be.  This includes not only food preparation but plating it and staging it for the servers.  I've never observed the back of the house on a cruise ship during meal service but if they think that is where the bottleneck is, then that is probably where it is.  I would guess that they have different lines for each dish or small grouping of dishes.  By trimming these down it can reduced movements in the kitchen.  The point is that fewer items means faster service.  

That being said, I liked the classics portion of the menu because it was a nice fallback if I didn't like anything else that night.  But if the variety is large enough, I will probably be okay.  I'll let you know after my cruise in June.

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We've been watching this unfold with much interest. Our Anthem cruise in May will be (essentially) our first, so maybe by that time, all the kinks will have been sorted out.

The Mrs. is quite concerned, though, with what looks to be so many "classics" removed. Let's just say she isn't very adventuresome, and if there's a Mediterranean-heavy (or Indian, or take your pick) night with little alternative, for example, then to the Windjammer we shall sail...

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Unfortunately MDR menu changes are a done deal, regardless of what seems to be a phony rationale.  We have purchased specialty dining packages on all of our recent cruises to get better quality choices.  That said, RCCL needs to wake up to the fact that bar services are where you make the money in ALL restaurants.  When it takes 25 - 30 minutes to get a cocktail while seated in the MDR, guests simply decide to forego their adult beverage.  

Most restauranteurs serving alcohol will tell you that the profit margin on alcohol and specialty beverages is far greater than the profit on food.  

 

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I encourage everyone to listen to this week's podcast episode with Royal Caribbean's head of food and beverage to get a better sense of why and how Royal Caribbean is retooling the main dining room menu. 

I found some interesting insight into the change: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/podcast/episode-479-inside-look-the-new-main-dining-room-menus

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