New Miami terminal for RC being considered

[smokeybandit]

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ports-destinations/miami-dade-weighs-new-royal-caribbean-terminal-hq-expansion

 

Miami-Dade County commissioners will vote Tuesday on a new Royal Caribbean Group terminal and berth and a headquarters development and lease deal worth $2.8b over 50 years.

[twangster]

Signs they plan to embark two mega ships on the same day in Miami.  One Oasis plus one Icon, or two Oasis, or two Icon on the same day. 

As they phase out small ships they'll likely do the same in other ports.  Port Canaveral and Port Everglades comes to mind.  

[Plumlee2028]

Celebrity comes to mind as a help to fill slots.  I sailed Summit out of Terminal G earlier this year.  While I think they will prioritize use of their Terminal 25 in Port Everglades, I can see cases (especially in Winter) where the Ascent/Apex/Beyond/Edge have two out of Port Everglades, 1 out of Miami on the weekends and some of the short cruise market (4/5 nights for Celebrity) staying out of Miami as well.  The group is promising big increases in passengers with this so they will need to use those 2 and a half terminals heavily.  MSC's terminal (the berth 10) will be big, it is built for their World Class ships.

Fort Lauderdale plays an interesting role here in my opinion. I am not sure how long Royal Caribbean's previous deal with them ran from when they built up the current terminal and Celebrity's deal to build terminal 25 in Miami.  Carnival has expressed desire to grow their with their Holland America and Princess brands and may see a fit to use it more for Carnival as well.  

Lastly, it may be possible we see Miami get an Oasis class ship for 3/4 night sailings similar to Port Canaveral.  In that case you would have a Large (Oasis/Icon) ship sailing from Miami on Friday and Monday and likely 2 or 3 total of them on the weekend.  

[bobroo]

13 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ports-destinations/miami-dade-weighs-new-royal-caribbean-terminal-hq-expansion

 

Miami-Dade County commissioners will vote Tuesday on a new Royal Caribbean Group terminal and berth and a headquarters development and lease deal worth $2.8b over 50 years.

Thanks for sharing SB! We all here owe you a debt of gratitude for your ear to the ground of breaking news before it is officially released. 

We all appreciate your efforts!

[twangster]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:04 AM, Plumlee2028 said:

Celebrity comes to mind as a help to fill slots.  I sailed Summit out of Terminal G earlier this year.  While I think they will prioritize use of their Terminal 25 in Port Everglades, I can see cases (especially in Winter) where the Ascent/Apex/Beyond/Edge have two out of Port Everglades, 1 out of Miami on the weekends and some of the short cruise market (4/5 nights for Celebrity) staying out of Miami as well.  The group is promising big increases in passengers with this so they will need to use those 2 and a half terminals heavily.  MSC's terminal (the berth 10) will be big, it is built for their World Class ships.

Fort Lauderdale plays an interesting role here in my opinion. I am not sure how long Royal Caribbean's previous deal with them ran from when they built up the current terminal and Celebrity's deal to build terminal 25 in Miami.  Carnival has expressed desire to grow their with their Holland America and Princess brands and may see a fit to use it more for Carnival as well.  

Lastly, it may be possible we see Miami get an Oasis class ship for 3/4 night sailings similar to Port Canaveral.  In that case you would have a Large (Oasis/Icon) ship sailing from Miami on Friday and Monday and likely 2 or 3 total of them on the weekend.  

MSC is an interesting case study.  They've been shopping for a partner for a while.  I think they were working on DCL but they backed out to do their own thing in PEV I think.  

It's interesting in terms of MSC who states they are taking on the big 3 in the US but won't committ to passenger numbers in Miami.  Are they into the US market or not?   Hmmmm.   

[The Cruise Junkie]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:49 AM, twangster said:

As they phase out small ships they'll likely do the same in other ports.  Port Canaveral and Port Everglades comes to mind.  

I don't think they are leaving Canaveral anytime soon. It is a very good market for the brand. Just look at the three night cruise out of Canaveral. As of right now it is the only market that will have an Oasis class ship doing those sailings. If Canaveral was not popular and selling, they would not have four ships based out of Canaveral this winter. It has actually gotten to a point where royal had to start using two terminals at the port due to the amount of calls they were making on the port so often that they overlapped with the 7 night and the 3/4-night vessels at CT-1. 

[twangster]

2 hours ago, The Cruise Junkie said:

I don't think they are leaving Canaveral anytime soon. It is a very good market for the brand. Just look at the three night cruise out of Canaveral. As of right now it is the only market that will have an Oasis class ship doing those sailings. If Canaveral was not popular and selling, they would not have four ships based out of Canaveral this winter. It has actually gotten to a point where royal had to start using two terminals at the port due to the amount of calls they were making on the port so often that they overlapped with the 7 night and the 3/4-night vessels at CT-1. 

Hmmm.  Where did I say they are backing away from PCN?   I expect they are looking to EXPAND capabilities in PCN to two Oasis/Icon class.  Terminal one is there.  They need another similar sized terminal where they have priority rights.  

[The Cruise Junkie]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Hmmm.  Where did I say they are backing away from PCN?   I expect they are looking to EXPAND capabilities in PCN to two Oasis/Icon class.  Terminal one is there.  They need another similar sized terminal where they have priority rights.  

That is the problem right now the port is facing. As of right now, Oasis class can only dock at three terminals (CT-1, 3, & 6) but really only two out of the three can handle an oasis/icon class embarkation (CT-1 & CT-3) however Carnival has rights over using CT-3 for their ships. The major problem Royal faces with using CT-1 is the parking situation. The lots get very full with just a Freedom class ship plus Oasis. With Allure next fall it will get interesting. I know there has been talks for many years of moving the Casino vessel out of CT-2 and making into another cruise terminal, but I think those plans have not gotten anywhere due to them having to move a lot of things such as where that vessel departs from as well as the pilot headquarters. 

[twangster]

8 hours ago, The Cruise Junkie said:

That is the problem right now the port is facing. As of right now, Oasis class can only dock at three terminals (CT-1, 3, & 6) but really only two out of the three can handle an oasis/icon class embarkation (CT-1 & CT-3) however Carnival has rights over using CT-3 for their ships. The major problem Royal faces with using CT-1 is the parking situation. The lots get very full with just a Freedom class ship plus Oasis. With Allure next fall it will get interesting. I know there has been talks for many years of moving the Casino vessel out of CT-2 and making into another cruise terminal, but I think those plans have not gotten anywhere due to them having to move a lot of things such as where that vessel departs from as well as the pilot headquarters. 

I am confident multiple lines are in discussion with many Florida ports trying to jockey for position to secure berthing rights into the future.  It will be interesting to see what they do in PCN.  The port may need to rethink the space available for all activities if they wish to cash in through the cruise ship industry into the distant future.  The Port of Miami and Port Everglades don't have the recreational use cases that PCN does.  Does the Port have the political capital to pursue more industrial use versus recreational use?  Time will tell.  

[Plumlee2028]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:07 PM, twangster said:

MSC is an interesting case study.  They've been shopping for a partner for a while.  I think they were working on DCL but they backed out to do their own thing in PEV I think.  

It's interesting in terms of MSC who states they are taking on the big 3 in the US but won't committ to passenger numbers in Miami.  Are they into the US market or not?   Hmmmm.   

I can't ever quite figure out MSC.  They always give me the impression they are interested primarily in the announcements or "splashes" they make.  I think they realized pretty quickly they overshot with this terminal or they really want two large ships but dont want to stagger their days.  

[twangster]

12 minutes ago, Plumlee2028 said:

I can't ever quite figure out MSC.  They always give me the impression they are interested primarily in the announcements or "splashes" they make.  I think they realized pretty quickly they overshot with this terminal or they really want two large ships but dont want to stagger their days.  

I think they expected to enter the US market by simply stating "We're here!" but now they are finding out isn't that simple and they are having to work at it but they lack that marketing plan. 

[JasonOasis]

25 minutes ago, twangster said:

I think they expected to enter the US market by simply stating "We're here!" but now they are finding out isn't that simple and they are having to work at it but they lack that marketing plan. 

I've cruise with them multiple times out of Miami, I've been on the Seaside, Divina, and also Meraviglia.  On all three cruises there were definitely more Americans onboard than Europeans and I got the distinct feeling that MSC didn't do their homework on the US market. Perhaps things have changed onboard, after all it has been a few years since my last MSC cruise.  In my opinion they weren't just lacking a marketing plan,  to me on all three cruise it felt like they just showed up and didn't do any research on US-Caribbean customer base.  I gave them three tries and after the Meraviglia cruise my husband was like don't book another cruise with them any time soon and I was 100% in agreement with him.  

I may give them another try once/if they bring a World Class ship to the US, but I'm in no hurry to get back on a MSC cruise.  It doesn't surprise me to hear they are still looking for a partner to help them with their ambitious project on Dodge Island.

Having said that I'm extremely happy to hear Royal has finalized a deal for both Berth 10 and an all new Terminal G. It is going to be amazing once complete to see potentially 2 Oasis/Icon ships  and perhaps a Freedom Class ship in port all at once.

[Matt]

I think this new deal basically means any chance of Royal shifting back to Port Everglades is unlikely (in the way they did when Oasis came out and they moved a lot of their traffic to Everglades instead of Miami).

1 hour ago, Plumlee2028 said:

I can't ever quite figure out MSC.  They always give me the impression they are interested primarily in the announcements or "splashes" they make.  I think they realized pretty quickly they overshot with this terminal or they really want two large ships but dont want to stagger their days.  

Nobody tries harder than MSC, but I get the sense they're like the Soviet version of American cruising: They can see everything we do and reverse engineer a lot of it, but the final product never matches up to the original.