FManke Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 With the current industry trend to continue to build bigger ships, any chance they will build new smaller ships? I think, at least with a lot of people here, some of their favorite ships are the smaller ones. At some point, you can only retrofit the smaller ships to a point to keep them updated with the newest amenities. OrionJus and Katelynnhab 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 RC has proven they can make bigger and bigger ships and make money on them. I think for the RC brand, bigger is the direction. Sister company Azamara and Celebrity seem to pick up the small ship slack, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 RC has proven they can make bigger and bigger ships and make money on them. I think for the RC brand, bigger is the direction. Sister company Azamara and Celebrity seem to pick up the small ship slack, so to speak. I'm not familiar with the Azamara line. What are they like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 I'm not familiar with the Azamara line. What are they like? They're the luxury line. As opposed to Celebrity, which is the "Premium" (their marketing word, not mine) line in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 They're the luxury line. As opposed to Celebrity, which is the "Premium" (their marketing word, not mine) line in the middle. So that puts RCCL at the bottom, so to speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 So that puts RCCL at the bottom, so to speak? Yes. As @monorailmedic would say, they're the "mass market" line. Primarily geared to families and the least expensive of the three for comparable itineraries. Seems to be the trend with cruising companies. Have three lines to appeal to the different demographics. With the exception of MSC Cruises, whose parent company is mainly involved in cargo shipment. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yes. As @monorailmedic would say, they're the "mass market" line. Primarily geared to families and the least expensive of the three for comparable itineraries. Seems to be the trend with cruising companies. Have three lines to appeal to the different demographics. With the exception of MSC Cruises, whose parent company is mainly involved in cargo shipment. Well, now I feel like I just bought a car with manual roll down windows! Last one I owned was from 1973! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 This is a hot topic that Matt and I discussed on a podcast a few months back. Yes, Celebrity has ships that are small compared to newer RCI builds, and Azamara has R Class ships which are quite small (30k gross tons). Royal Caribbean is a "mass market" or "contemporary" line, but that doesn't make their product inferior. This is just the way the market is sliced up. Azamara is a luxury line, yes, but if you're a family looking for ice skating, flowriders, parades, etc then you're not going to feel Azamara is a superior experience - while others may if they have different goals and desires. That out of the way, I do wonder how RCI will keep cruisers who prefer sailing out of say, Baltimore and Tampa, ports that are a looong way off of supporting larger ships. There are consumers in that market that want RCI's product. Will we see offers for residents of certain states that make it more appealing for them to go to alternative ports? We'll see. I do think it's an intersting stumbling block they'll need to conquer. Steve L and coneyraven 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Royal Caribbean is a "mass market" or "contemporary" line, but that doesn't make their product inferior. This is just the way the market is sliced up. Azamara is a luxury line, yes, but if you're a family looking for ice skating, flowriders, parades, etc then you're not going to feel Azamara is a superior experience - while others may if they have different goals and desires. Totally agree, and I hope I didn't inadvertently imply inferiority with my last comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coneyraven Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 This is a hot topic that Matt and I discussed on a podcast a few months back. Yes, Celebrity has ships that are small compared to newer RCI builds, and Azamara has R Class ships which are quite small (30k gross tons). Royal Caribbean is a "mass market" or "contemporary" line, but that doesn't make their product inferior. This is just the way the market is sliced up. Azamara is a luxury line, yes, but if you're a family looking for ice skating, flowriders, parades, etc then you're not going to feel Azamara is a superior experience - while others may if they have different goals and desires. That out of the way, I do wonder how RCI will keep cruisers who prefer sailing out of say, Baltimore and Tampa, ports that are a looong way off of supporting larger ships. There are consumers in that market that want RCI's product. Will we see offers for residents of certain states that make it more appealing for them to go to alternative ports? We'll see. I do think it's an intersting stumbling block they'll need to conquer. Perfectly said .... in the case of Baltimore, a new port would have to go south of Annapolis, which is still relatively rural the further south you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Totally agree, and I hope I didn't inadvertently imply inferiority with my last comment! Not at all! I communicate primarily in a series of disclaimers :-) DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 This is a hot topic that Matt and I discussed on a podcast a few months back. Yes, Celebrity has ships that are small compared to newer RCI builds, and Azamara has R Class ships which are quite small (30k gross tons). Royal Caribbean is a "mass market" or "contemporary" line, but that doesn't make their product inferior. This is just the way the market is sliced up. Azamara is a luxury line, yes, but if you're a family looking for ice skating, flowriders, parades, etc then you're not going to feel Azamara is a superior experience - while others may if they have different goals and desires. That out of the way, I do wonder how RCI will keep cruisers who prefer sailing out of say, Baltimore and Tampa, ports that are a looong way off of supporting larger ships. There are consumers in that market that want RCI's product. Will we see offers for residents of certain states that make it more appealing for them to go to alternative ports? We'll see. I do think it's an intersting stumbling block they'll need to conquer. Maybe a solution would be to offer discounted airfare in certain cities to entice people to travel to a different port. it's not a perfect solution, but if you can't bring the ship to the people, bring the people to the ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Totally agree, and I hope I didn't inadvertently imply inferiority with my last comment! Nah, I got it. It's just like when all the Big 3 car companies, each had three classes of cars. Each for a niche in their market. I miss my old Pontiac! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Maybe a solution would be to offer discounted airfare in certain cities to entice people to travel to a different port. it's not a perfect solution, but if you can't bring the ship to the people, bring the people to the ship. This used to be done. In fact, cruises used to be priced and advertised with airfare included. Other lines are also starting to added discounts on airfare to entice cruisers. This has been done with European itineraries and Princess has a promotion where you can save $300 on your airline ticket if you book air through them. The luxury cruise lines already include the air, which in part is why they're more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 This used to be done. In fact, cruises used to be priced and advertised with airfare included. Other lines are also starting to added discounts on airfare to entice cruisers. This has been done with European itineraries and Princess has a promotion where you can save $300 on your airline ticket if you book air through them. The luxury cruise lines already include the air, which in part is why they're more expensive. Adding airfare would have a perceived added value to the price, whether or not the flight was actually available cheaper on it's own. Most people would pay the little extra to have it all bundled together. One stop shopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 This used to be done. In fact, cruises used to be priced and advertised with airfare included. Other lines are also starting to added discounts on airfare to entice cruisers. This has been done with European itineraries and Princess has a promotion where you can save $300 on your airline ticket if you book air through them. The luxury cruise lines already include the air, which in part is why they're more expensive. Good point, though I'd also note that just like NCLs included drinks, flights can almost always be de-coupled from luxury sailings - or changed for other perks (pre/post hotel stays, etc). There was a time that some cruise lines even looked into starting their own airlines, or doing permanent charters. Crystal has done this now, but for a very different reason. DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Good point, though I'd also note that just like NCLs included drinks, flights can almost always be de-coupled from luxury sailings - or changed for other perks (pre/post hotel stays, etc). There was a time that some cruise lines even looked into starting their own airlines, or doing permanent charters. Crystal has done this now, but for a very different reason. And that reason would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 They're the luxury line. As opposed to Celebrity, which is the "Premium" (their marketing word, not mine) line in the middle. It reminds me a lot of cars. In General Motors, you have Chevrolet (RC), Buick (Celebrity) and Cadillac (Azamara). It's not to say one is superior or inferior than the other, they just offer a different experience. monorailmedic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 It reminds me a lot of cars. In General Motors, you have Chevrolet (RC), Buick (Celebrity) and Cadillac (Azamara). It's not to say one is superior or inferior than the other, they just offer a different experience. As long as RC doesn't become the Oldsmobile or Pontiac. Or Yugo or AMC. :D Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 And that reason would be? See, if I explain it here then how do I justify writing a long article about it later? j/k...sorta Crystal has several aircraft. Their 777 and 787s have been refitted for high-end accomodations offering "air cruises". The same concept of a cruise, except on a plane. Additionally, they have a smaller plane, a Bombardier (and possibly another small one) which can be privately chartered, or simply used if you and several of your wealthiest friends want a very luxirious ride to catch your cruise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 It reminds me a lot of cars. In General Motors, you have Chevrolet (RC), Buick (Celebrity) and Cadillac (Azamara). It's not to say one is superior or inferior than the other, they just offer a different experience. I always forget Buick is still a thing. Can we find a different brand for this comparisson? Katelynnhab and PlitkaHoaxy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FManke Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 See, if I explain it here then how do I justify writing a long article about it later? j/k...sorta Crystal has several aircraft. Their 777 and 787s have been refitted for high-end accomodations offering "air cruises". The same concept of a cruise, except on a plane. Additionally, they have a smaller plane, a Bombardier (and possibly another small one) which can be privately chartered, or simply used if you and several of your wealthiest friends want a very luxirious ride to catch your cruise. Well they sound great, but I don't think I will be using them anytime soon. Unless I win the lotto of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 I always forget Buick is still a thing. Can we find a different brand for this comparisson? How about Kia / Hyundai / Genesis (just spun off from Hyundai as new luxury brand)? Or Scion / Toyota / Lexus? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Well they sound great, but I don't think I will be using them anytime soon. Unless I win the lotto of course. Not that I have any experience with them; but from what I saw when looked at them on a lark, I think Crystal is rarefied air even among other luxury cruise lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 How about Kia / Hyundai / Genesis (just spun off from Hyundai as new luxury brand)? Or Scion / Toyota / Lexus? :) I actually rather like the Scion/Toyota/Lexus comparison as that is a great example of clearly differentiated markets where price is a factor, though not the biggest factor. If you want what a Scion offers than you don't want a Lexus. DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Good point, though I'd also note that just like NCLs included drinks, flights can almost always be de-coupled from luxury sailings - or changed for other perks (pre/post hotel stays, etc). There was a time that some cruise lines even looked into starting their own airlines, or doing permanent charters. Crystal has done this now, but for a very different reason. I remember they were taking at one time about repurposing UPS aircraft on the weekends for this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 I actually rather like the Scion/Toyota/Lexus comparison as that is a great example of clearly differentiated markets where price is a factor, though not the biggest factor. If you want what a Scion offers than you don't want a Lexus. All except for the fact that they're discontinuing the Scion line, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monorailmedic Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 All except for the fact that they're discontinuing the Scion line, correct? Details :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 Details :rolleyes: It was announced a little over a year ago, but I still see the Scion branding at the dealerships. http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/toyota-dumps-scion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose City Cruiser Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I'm interested to see how the cruise line industry will shift once the boomers die off. Will it still maintain the trend of bigger ships or shift back to smaller ships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janza Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 I always forget Buick is still a thing. Can we find a different brand for this comparisson? Don't be dissing my Buick :D DocLC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Don't be dissing my Buick :D Yeah....me too ! janza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocLC Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Had a relative from Michigan visit us in California. The one thing she noticed . . . no Buicks. Coming from a GM family, she wondered where they had all gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toodle68 Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 We have watched several of the Dream Cruises episodes where they show one of the smaller ships < 500 passengers and the one item that really appeals to us is how much closer to the water you are.. how the ocean is a bigger part of the experience. It is more like going on a personal cruise ship. They have food tables outside and one night they had a buffet / bbq outside. It all looked great. The pool is not the central attraction because rarely do you see kids on these ships. So the tables, where you can sit and order food, is right at the railing on the top deck. The ship also had a water deck of the back of the ship where you can go directly into the ocean when in port. They put out mats and use the ships small boats for tubing etc. Of course, you lose a lot in entertainment on the smaller ships since since some of the time the crew doubles the entertainment... and of course, the cost is a lot more. I would love to see RC build a new 'smaller ship that could pick the best of both of these worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coneyraven Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 We have watched several of the Dream Cruises episodes where they show one of the smaller ships < 500 passengers and the one item that really appeals to us is how much closer to the water you are.. how the ocean is a bigger part of the experience. It is more like going on a personal cruise ship. They have food tables outside and one night they had a buffet / bbq outside. It all looked great. The pool is not the central attraction because rarely do you see kids on these ships. So the tables, where you can sit and order food, is right at the railing on the top deck. The ship also had a water deck of the back of the ship where you can go directly into the ocean when in port. They put out mats and use the ships small boats for tubing etc. Of course, you lose a lot in entertainment on the smaller ships since since some of the time the crew doubles the entertainment... and of course, the cost is a lot more. I would love to see RC build a new 'smaller ship that could pick the best of both of these worlds. That would be amazing .... I also wonder if having smaller ships, would it open up opportunities to be able to visit ports that can't accommodate the bigger ships.... both domestic & abroad? (For example, the reason Empress was brought back in regards to Cuba) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toodle68 Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 The episode we just watched had the ship go to a few places I had never heard of.. They only docked a couple of times and when they viewed the bay, there was no other ships around. They used the ships lifeboats to take passengers to shore. There were no scenes of crazy busy ports and long lines for taxis like at Cozumel. In a few years when we have a little more money, we will definitely explore some of these other cruise lines with mid to small size ships. Oh, the one last night was 340 passengers and had 5 massive masks with sails and sometimes cruised just under sail power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Toodle68, imagine taking a river cruise where it's only about 60 people. :) My in-laws have done a couple of those on the Rhine river. IIRC, first time took them through Estonia and Budapest (among other places), after having to detour south and maybe even onto a different river because of problems in / around the northern Rhine (too low for passage? a fire?); the second time they went the originally intended route through Germany and further north. They said it was really fun and I was amazed at the photos they got of places you could only reach by way of the river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 I have wanted to do a European river cruise for a long time but they don't have casinos ! I guess I will hold out a little longer janza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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