Icon is "here"- So what's next?

[FManke]

Ok. So, I know it's early to be guessing what's next since Icon of the Seas hasn't even sailed yet. But, what's next? What would you like to see added to the next Icon class ship? Is there still something you've been waiting for that hasn't arrived yet in a new ship? We can all dream!

 

Happy Cruising!

[asquared17]

actually i'm curious what the last of the oasis class will look like -- utopia of the seas -- i know they aren't going to re-invent the wheel but i'd be curious to see if they bring over any of the newer updates/stateroom style/etc.

seeing all the color schemes on icon makes me feel like my beloved oasis is hella outdated in decor, etc. obviously open to interpretation, but icon looks SO modern. i love it!

[FManke]

25 minutes ago, asquared17 said:

actually i'm curious what the last of the oasis class will look like -- utopia of the seas -- 

Good point!

[Done]

1 hour ago, FManke said:

Good point!

I'd like to see a smaller Voyager Class ship with less bells and whistles.  Never happen though.

[Shanenz84]

My guess is Utopia will be very similar to Wonder but with LNG power. 

So looking ahead to 24-25 with Icon & Oasis (Winter) in Miami. Fort Laud. will have Symphony, Port Canaveral has Wonder & Allure (23-24) and Galveston will have Harmony. What's your guess as to where is Utopia heading too? 

[Plumlee2028]

If things open up, I think they may still send Wonder to China.  I would guess Utopia would probably be in Orlando, Miami, or Galveston where there will be good LNG infrastructure already.  Icon class and Utopia can do alot of the Winter Caribbean, Mediterranean Summer down the road.  In about 6 years, they will have 9 ships Oasis Class or bigger.  

I agree with the above, I think Utopia will heavily resemble Wonder.  That gives three sets of 2 in the class.  Wonder's decor and Icons in the non-suite rooms seem similar with some smaller tweaks.

[Rackham]

4 hours ago, Toby said:

I'd like to see a smaller Voyager Class ship with less bells and whistles.  Never happen though.

I'm really curious to see if Royal decides on a new Panamax-sized ship class or abandons the segment. With Grandeur (the oldest of the Vision class) hitting 30 in 2026 and Jewel turning 30 in 2034 (youngest of the Radiance class), if Royal is planning on something new and small, it'll probably be announced this decade. I'd be shocked if they ordered more than five of them.

[twangster]

Next?  275,000 GT Beluga class.  >10k guest.  Fuel source: hot air amd rumors.  

[steverk]

21 hours ago, Rackham said:

I'm really curious to see if Royal decides on a new Panamax-sized ship class or abandons the segment. With Grandeur (the oldest of the Vision class) hitting 30 in 2026 and Jewel turning 30 in 2034 (youngest of the Radiance class), if Royal is planning on something new and small, it'll probably be announced this decade. I'd be shocked if they ordered more than five of them.

I agree,  but I think they'll split the difference between Panamax and oasis. I believe royal will want ships that can transit the canal, but probably live with a neo panamax vessel. 

I understand oasis can transit the locks, but won't fit under the bridge.  That means a less tall ship or Panama replaces the bridge. 

Time will tell.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, steverk said:

I agree,  but I think they'll split the difference between Panamax and oasis. I believe royal will want ships that can transit the canal, but probably live with a neo panamax vessel. 

I understand oasis can transit the locks, but won't fit under the bridge.  That means a less tall ship or Panama replaces the bridge. 

Time will tell.

I don't think Oasis can do the Panama Canal because her lifeboats hang outside the profile of the lower hull of the vessel.  Same with Voyager, Freedom and Quantum class.  

Hanging lifeboats off the ship the way Royal does increases the internal volume that counts against gross tonnage and provides more internal space for 'stuff'.  The downside is the lifeboats would strike objects going through the Panama Canal.  

Look at Edge class - lifeboats don't overhang beyond the sides of the lower hull.  Edge can do the PC.

Everyone focuses on the height but that isn't the real issue.

[steverk]

11 hours ago, twangster said:

I don't think Oasis can do the Panama Canal because her lifeboats hang outside the profile of the lower hull of the vessel.  Same with Voyager, Freedom and Quantum class.  

Hanging lifeboats off the ship the way Royal does increases the internal volume that counts against gross tonnage and provides more internal space for 'stuff'.  The downside is the lifeboats would strike objects going through the Panama Canal.  

Look at Edge class - lifeboats don't overhang beyond the sides of the lower hull.  Edge can do the PC.

Everyone focuses on the height but that isn't the real issue.

That's all the more reason to believe that royal will have to create a new class of ship that can make it through the canal in the relatively near future. 

That said, I  seem to remember mariner was sailing in the Caribbean before it started sailing out of Los Angeles. I  don't recall it being out of service long enough to sail around south America.  How did it do this if it couldn't make it through the canal?

[steverk]

12 hours ago, twangster said:

I don't think Oasis can do the Panama Canal because her lifeboats hang outside the profile of the lower hull of the vessel.  Same with Voyager, Freedom and Quantum class.  

Hanging lifeboats off the ship the way Royal does increases the internal volume that counts against gross tonnage and provides more internal space for 'stuff'.  The downside is the lifeboats would strike objects going through the Panama Canal.  

Look at Edge class - lifeboats don't overhang beyond the sides of the lower hull.  Edge can do the PC.

Everyone focuses on the height but that isn't the real issue.

That's all the more reason to believe that royal will have to create a new class of ship that can make it through the canal in the relatively near future. 

That said, I  seem to remember mariner was sailing in the Caribbean before it started sailing out of Los Angeles. I  don't recall it being out of service long enough to sail around south America.  How did it do this if it couldn't make it through the canal?

Update: I'm on explorer right now and asked the captain. He was surprisingly vague, but his response was "That's a good question. I believe the answer is yes, it can."

[JasonOasis]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:28 PM, Toby said:

I'd like to see a smaller Voyager Class ship with less bells and whistles.  Never happen though.

I can't wait to see what Royal comes up with as a replacement for their Vision Class vessels.  Those ships date back to the mid to late 90s, with Utopia coming as well as at least 2 more Icon Class vessels I think this is the beginning of the end of mega vessels from Royal because at some point next decade their smaller vessels like Vision Class and perhaps even Voyager Class ships will need to start being replaced.

I know it's only 2022 and here I am already talking about the next decade but at some point in this decade Royal has to start thinking about what is going to replace their aging Vision and Voyager Class ships.  I also think when Royal does replace their smaller ships I think the replacements will be of similar size but with less bells and whistles so as not to completely alienate an entire segment of the cruise industry. 

[twangster]

4 hours ago, steverk said:

That's all the more reason to believe that royal will have to create a new class of ship that can make it through the canal in the relatively near future. 

That said, I  seem to remember mariner was sailing in the Caribbean before it started sailing out of Los Angeles. I  don't recall it being out of service long enough to sail around south America.  How did it do this if it couldn't make it through the canal?

Mariner went South around the bottom of South America.  When she came back from Asia she came through the Suez.  

Navigator went through the Suez to reach the Pacific.

Mariner did revenue cruises.  Navigator was during the shutdown so no guests on board.

[twangster]

3 hours ago, steverk said:

Update: I'm on explorer right now and asked the captain. He was surprisingly vague, but his response was "That's a good question. I believe the answer is yes, it can."

The new canal requires 55' above the water line with no protrusions from the ship.  Ask the Captain how high the platforms around the outside promenade deck are above the water line.  

[steverk]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

The new canal requires 55' above the water line with no protrusions from the ship.  Ask the Captain how high the platforms around the outside promenade deck are above the water line.  

If I bump in to him again, I'll ask. 

I was surprised to see him at the buffet this morning. You never know. Maybe he'll be there tomorrow too!

[FManke]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:05 PM, twangster said:

  Fuel source: hot air and rumors.  

There is definitely an endless supply of both.

 

Happy Cruising!

[Mike6453]

Quantum class was step back in size after Oasis class and was designed for colder climates. Its not too crazy to think they would build a new smaller class to replace the aging ships. At least the ones that it no longer pays to amplify or upgrade. Given that Celebrity is a sister brand the edge class already provides a blueprint if they want to go that route. 

[D Alt]

I just hope they add more charging stations to these new ships. 

[Mike6453]

16 hours ago, D Alt said:

I just hope they add more charging stations to these new ships. 

im looking to book WOS for feb 24' and watched a video of GS 1 bedroom and there did seem to be a plethora of chargers/plugs especially by the bed, I generally bring an outlet expansion and that helps. also if your phone/device works with a charging pad that's another option and has less cables.

[D Alt]

5 hours ago, Mike6453 said:

im looking to book WOS for feb 24' and watched a video of GS 1 bedroom and there did seem to be a plethora of chargers/plugs especially by the bed, I generally bring an outlet expansion and that helps. also if your phone/device works with a charging pad that's another option and has less cables.

I mean in other sections of the ship. 

[Mike6453]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:38 PM, D Alt said:

I mean in other sections of the ship. 

its been my experience that ships built OOS (2010) or later have a good amount of outlets, regardless of suite/non-suite, with the newer ones having USB outlets too. anything older i just pack an extension.

[ZBrady]

On 10/28/2022 at 2:38 PM, D Alt said:

I mean in other sections of the ship. 

Your best bet is to bring a portable charger if you’re looking to charge a device outside of your room.

[D Alt]

7 hours ago, ZBrady said:

Your best bet is to bring a portable charger if you’re looking to charge a device outside of your room.

yes I do that currently.  I was hoping that the newly built ships would change this going forward. 

[JasonOasis]

On 10/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, D Alt said:

yes I do that currently.  I was hoping that the newly built ships would change this going forward. 

Don't take this question the wrong way just trying to understand what you're requesting from Royal.  

Are you suggesting Royal's new ships should resemble new/newly remodeled airports with charging stations everywhere in all public areas on the ship?

 

[AussieMike]

I will take a punt and predict that Royal will bring an Oasis class ship to Brisbane, Australia in 2025 once Perfect Day at Lelepa is open.

By 2025 there will be 6 Oasis class ships and possibly 2 Icon Class ships.  Royal will be looking at new markets to deploy these ships outside of North America and Europe.

It is overdue for Royal to give us Aussies a taste of the Oasis class ships.  IMO the only thing that has prevented this from happening is the lack of ports in this area that can handle a ship of that size.

7 night round trip from Brisbane to Lelepa and possibly Noumea (only port that could take an Oasis class ship in the South Pacific) with 5 sea days.   This would suit us cruisaholics with the Oasis class being a destination in itself.

[dr martini]

could be wrong, but i don't see more small ships coming.  more big ships and amplifications to bring those big ship features closer to fleet wide as marketing tools (finish voyager class, then harmony/allure, quantum/anthem will be ten years old soon) royal as a cruise line is clearly focused on having the biggest ships in the world with the most things to do for families and we know that because actions speak louder than words, they're still aggressively advertising during NFL games etc and it's all the bells and whistles and go go go.  they know many, even most people who cruised with them as families will sail as multigenerational groups every once in awhile, more often still as retired couples and can always upsell unlimited dining, cabanas, suite life etc and give out the diamond type perks to keep them around.  

But if it becomes too much, or too busy, Royal Caribbean Group as the parent holding company is happy to offer higher end /more experienced cruise customers who want smaller ships and more exotic ports go to Silversea and Celebrity.  celebrity still regularly building and ordering ships, i've received more marketing info from them in the past year than in the previous 5-7 years combined....makes sense to keep building those brands out too.

[brgreens]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:05 PM, twangster said:

Next?  275,000 GT Beluga class.  >10k guest.  Fuel source: hot air amd rumors.  

Nah -- Galaxy class.  So big, it has its own gravitational field, which should make Starlink access much better by having a dedicated swarm of satellites.

[CruisinMikeD]

2 hours ago, brgreens said:

Nah -- Galaxy class.  So big, it has its own gravitational field, which should make Starlink access much better by having a dedicated swarm of satellites.

"Enterprise of the Seas!"

[brgreens]

11 minutes ago, CruisinMikeD said:

"Enterprise of the Seas!"

"To boldly cruise...."  

[twangster]

40 minutes ago, CruisinMikeD said:

"Enterprise of the Seas!"

Spacewalk excursion - $180,000 plus 18% gratuity

[AlmondFarmer]

34 minutes ago, twangster said:

Spacewalk excursion - $180,000 plus 18% gratuity

I’m waiting for the Black Friday sale. 

[twangster]

2 hours ago, AlmondFarmer said:

I’m waiting for the Black Friday sale. 

Won't apply to your launch date.

[GatorCruiser]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Won't apply to your launch date.

What are your thoughts about what Royal would do as the smaller classes of ships age out of the fleet? Certainly there has to be smaller ships available for the smaller ports ? 

[twangster]

4 hours ago, GatorCruiser said:

What are your thoughts about what Royal would do as the smaller classes of ships age out of the fleet? Certainly there has to be smaller ships available for the smaller ports ? 

Some random thoughts. 

Royal Caribbean International (RCI) is part of the Royal Caribbean Group (RCG).  The tail does NOT wag the dog.  RCG has built a portfolio of cruise lines with a clarity of vision.  RCI (the cruise line) has a primary role of being a multi-generational family mass market cruise line.  Other brands within the RCG family of cruise lines stay out of RCI's way.  They don't try to compete in the mass market segment.  The mass market cruise segment is not intended to service or call at every port in the world.  Small ports that can't accommodate mega ship are not the target destination for the mass market cruise segment.  However some of the sister brands can include small ports when it makes sense for that line.

I think RCI has been pretty clear they are lobbying ports around the world to expand to accommodate larger ships.  Those that don't, or can't will simply be off the RCI radar screen.  Ports of call know this.  Many have seen the trends and invested to expand capacity.  Some ports are not interested in mega sized ships invading their communities.  There is an equilibrium that is playing out.  Ports that don't want mega ships won't be on their itineraries.  

This isn't anything new.  Royal hardly calls into the British Virgin Islands.  Celebrity has more of presence in the BVI.  Royal hasn't needed the BVI despite the BVI being pretty nice.   Few people have complained about that or even noted it.  

RCI's primary mission above everything else is to bring value to the shareholders of the company.  They exist to make money not to be everything for everyone.  

Royal doesn't put ships into every home port that can accommodate a cruise ship like Carnival historically has.  Norfolk, Charleston, Jacksonville, Mobile, etc.  Royal is more interested in placing their assets where they can maximize revenue.  The same concept holds true with ports of call especially when you step back and look at the bigger picture including the next point.

On a typical mega RCI cruise 50% to 60% of the guests on board are new to Royal.  The bulk of them aren't coming to Royal because there is a small port on the itinerary.  Royal doesn't need small ports to entice the bulk of the new-to-RCI to book their ships.  They can make more money by repeating the same cruise over and over. 

Rinse, lather, repeat, rinse, lather, repeat.  Oasis class made perfect the practice of repeating the same itineraries ad nauseum.  By repeating the pattern without deviation they maximized every dollar generating potential out of the asset.  That is how you make money in the mass market cruise segment.  Oasis class are a machine that work best (from the company's perspective) when they repeat the same over and over again.  One off or mixing up itineraries wreaks havoc on a machine that is designed to repeat the same over and over again.  Once they get going they have momentum.  Don't mess with momentum.  Rinse, lather, repeat.

Small ports are not needed when the ship is the destination as much or more than the ports of call.  Oasis class created the concept of the ship as the destination and Icon so far appears to be the evolution of that on steroids.   

Simply put in the not so distant future RCI won't give a hoot about small ports and they will continue to be very successful without them.

[GatorCruiser]

fascinating take, makes sense from a business standpoint. thank you for taking time to respond. 

[steverk]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:11 PM, GatorCruiser said:

What are your thoughts about what Royal would do as the smaller classes of ships age out of the fleet? Certainly there has to be smaller ships available for the smaller ports ? 

For my two cents worth...

@twangster raises excellent points as always and I appreciate the perspective. 

However, as the ships age out, Royal will lose the ability to send ships through the Panama Canal.  That means they will not be able to reposition between Alaska and the Caribbean.

Perhaps there's enough of a market in Asia,  Australia and the United States west coast that it isn't an issue, but I don't think so. A neo panamax vessel would preserve this capability while still having decent economy of scale.  Therefore, I believe that will be the next class of ship from Royal. 

Btw neo panamax would be about the size of a voyager class vessel.

[Xaa]

32 minutes ago, steverk said:

Royal will lose the ability to send ships through the Panama Canal.  That means they will not be able to reposition between Alaska and the Caribbean.

The ships can go around Cape Horn.

[steverk]

3 hours ago, Xaa said:

The ships can go around Cape Horn.

True,  but it takes time.

[Xaa]

Yeah, that's the tradeoff if they prefer only larger ships to reposition from caribbean to AK.