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No More Pre-Cruise Testing for Vaccinated guests on voyages less than 6 nights staring August 8th!


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1 hour ago, JasonOasis said:

The answer is for the cruise lines and these island nations to work together toward a mutually beneficial deal where everybody wins without one party drawing a line in the sand because they think they are holding all the cards.

We agree.  Working together is making the call, negotiating, acquesce, give up, take, regroup, compromise, move forward, courage, win etc..  Simply stating "work together toward a mutually beneficial deal" is talk that sounds great in concept, because politicians use it all the time.  In the weeds, in the field of play it is action, leverage, reason, and results.  We all love altruistic principles and it gives us warm fuzzies, but it is business.

I     wouldn't unilaterally shut down all ports either.  Not sure we need to look at late Fall and Winter....why would either side wait that long to act.  Doesn't sound like a good partnership.

.....but for the record.....what needs to be negotiated or given up?  TODAY, right now, current circumstances...?  Pretty simple way for Island Nations to change.....and not "give up" anything.  It's in their best interest.  The cruise lines can send a clear message.  Once one restrictive protocol following Island Nation does, the rest will follow.

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28 minutes ago, CharmMicah68 said:

We agree.  Working together is making the call, negotiating, acquesce, give up, take, regroup, compromise, move forward, courage, win etc..  Simply stating "work together toward a mutually beneficial deal" is talk that sounds great in concept, because politicians use it all the time.  In the weeds, in the field of play it is action, leverage, reason, and results.  We all love altruistic principles and it gives us warm fuzzies, but it is business.

I     wouldn't unilaterally shut down all ports either.  Not sure we need to look at late Fall and Winter....why would either side wait that long to act.  Doesn't sound like a good partnership.

.....but for the record.....what needs to be negotiated or given up?  TODAY, right now, current circumstances...?  Pretty simple way for Island Nations to change.....and not "give up" anything.  It's in their best interest.  The cruise lines can send a clear message.  Once one restrictive protocol following Island Nation does, the rest will follow.

Many of these countries don't have the infrastructure. So, for cruise lines to "demand" they put themselves at insurmountable risk, is not a good look on the cruise line's part. While you see all these measures as nonsense, in the grand scheme of things they have their place. Yes, these places rely heavily on the lines for revenue but most of the country is still very poor. They don't have the medical facilities to handle major outbreaks of any illness when there are 5-10 ships of thousands of people there every day. We are often looking at things with the privilege of being American. 

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Many small island nations have low vaccination rates and very few resources in country to handle any sort of serious or long term medical needs.   They don't have an abundance of ICU beds nor the resources to quickly add ICU facilities. 

That reality has made most Caribbean nations very cautious as they reopened to tourism.   Initially allowing a limited number of tourists by flights is an example.  With that proving to be low impact they started allowing cruise ships to return while those ships initially had low capacity and 100% vaccination requirements so there was lower risk to the island populations.  As they grew more comfortable and saw limited impact they've gone with ships at and above 100% capacity.  By working with island nations the cruise lines have nurtured the industry back to where it is right now through communication and compromise by working with the destinations.   

With that success behind us they can now look to further reopen.  Threatening to cut them off if they don't allow unvaccinated isn't going to work.  They'll get there eventually but they can't be pushed there.  

Moreover there is zero business justification to force an island nation into capitulation.  There is literally nothing to gain by any cruise line threatening a destination particularly after working hand in hand with the destinations to get to where we are today.  That will surely backfire as a business tactic.  That is not how compromise works.  

Ultimately cruise lines want to get back to the old normal to ensure they have the largest possible target market at their disposal.  Europe is a problem for Royal.  Capacity has been running at 75% or below in Europe.  Before they would go trying to fix the Caribbean which isn't even broken (given > 100% capacity), they would be much better suited to try to put resources and energy into addressing the European market which is very much broken given the results from that region.  That is where they need to put their thinking caps on, not in the Caribbean.  

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1 hour ago, Ampurp85 said:

Many of these countries don't have the infrastructure. So, for cruise lines to "demand" they put themselves at insurmountable risk, is not a good look on the cruise line's part. While you see all these measures as nonsense, in the grand scheme of things they have their place. Yes, these places rely heavily on the lines for revenue but most of the country is still very poor. They don't have the medical facilities to handle major outbreaks of any illness when there are 5-10 ships of thousands of people there every day. We are often looking at things with the privilege of being American. 

so....how do we help them build infrastructure.....? 😉 

also, who is forcing?????  Unless of course they are dependent on us.  It's their choice.  Business sense, yes.  Backfire on the consumer?  No.  The free market would and will correct itself to a better opportunity or destinations.  

Totally agree on the European market.  Also, my point is TODAY.  Not 2020, not 2021.  TODAY, we have all the math needed.

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Working on a song for Royal since they haven't released the guidelines yet. What do you guys think? I'm thinking to the tune of Addams Family (loosely).

Hey Michael Bayley,
I check your Facebook daily.
Then I check the website,
I think about it all night.
Then I check my email,
Nothing new that I can tell.
Maybe you could GIVE ME THE INFO ALREADY.

 

The ending is a work in progress. May be too aggressive.

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58 minutes ago, CharmMicah68 said:

how do we help them build infrastructure.....? 😉 

I don't know if this is meant as a joke or not, but if serious, you're advocating the cruise lines assist impoverished countries improve their health care ability on a national level? Not only is it impractical, there's also not a ROI on that.

If you're joking, well, I missed the humor in it.

58 minutes ago, CharmMicah68 said:

 The free market would and will correct itself to a better opportunity or destinations.  

I think you're greatly oversimplifying cruise port choices.

This isn't picking Burger King over Wendys. Proximity is everything in the cruise world. Sailing to Mexico instead of The Bahamas has major fuel and logistical implications. You can't offer 3 night cruises if you're going to Mexico from Florida.

More importantly, most cruise lines have agreements with countries about a certain number of visitors they will bring to their country every year. Off the top of my head, I know Royal Caribbean has such arrangements with The Bahamas and Virgin Islands.

Not to mention the fact each port has a very limited and fixed amount of docking options for each ship if the cruise lines were to limit themselves to a few countries in the interim.

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4 hours ago, CharmMicah68 said:

We agree.  Working together is making the call, negotiating, acquesce, give up, take, regroup, compromise, move forward, courage, win etc..  Simply stating "work together toward a mutually beneficial deal" is talk that sounds great in concept, because politicians use it all the time.  In the weeds, in the field of play it is action, leverage, reason, and results.  We all love altruistic principles and it gives us warm fuzzies, but it is business.

I     wouldn't unilaterally shut down all ports either.  Not sure we need to look at late Fall and Winter....why would either side wait that long to act.  Doesn't sound like a good partnership.

.....but for the record.....what needs to be negotiated or given up?  TODAY, right now, current circumstances...?  Pretty simple way for Island Nations to change.....and not "give up" anything.  It's in their best interest.  The cruise lines can send a clear message.  Once one restrictive protocol following Island Nation does, the rest will follow.

Again, you are looking at it from just your perspective and forgetting the cruiseline also doesn't want to upset their customers.  Removing ports from already booked cruises is a pretty good way to upset their customers.  So nothing today can happen, it is going to take time of cruiselines working with the islands.  That will take time and not happen today as you put it.

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4 hours ago, CharmMicah68 said:

.....but for the record.....what needs to be negotiated or given up?  TODAY, right now, current circumstances...?  Pretty simple way for Island Nations to change.....and not "give up" anything.  It's in their best interest.  The cruise lines can send a clear message.  Once one restrictive protocol following Island Nation does, the rest will follow.

Fantasyland - and not at all the way this, or very many other international corporations, operate.

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