We cruise in 6 days on Harmony - but....

[whitsmom]

My TA called me Saturday and said he got a notice from RCI that I owe $640.01!  I got a refund from RCI for exactly $640.01 because I cancelled our Voom package because we got the KEY and it came with it, I cancelled 2 soda packages and 2 refreshment packages and re-purchased 4 refreshment packages.  I took a screen shot and my refund order number and all three of those refunds totaled $640.01.  He called them and sent them the screen shots and they told him to call them back today (Monday).

I'm sure my TA will get it straightened out but really....

[twangster]

This has been a frequent glitch recently.  Refunded Cruise Planner purchases are triggering an incorrect unpaid balance situation.  They should be able to get it worked out, it's unfortunately pretty common.  

[Done]

Happened to us with refunded specialty dining reservations.  I called and a supervisor who investigated found the total payments we made equal the total amount on our invoice and our cruise would not be cancelled.  It was a smaller amount than yours ($44.99) and I actually tried to pay it just to get it cleared and I would fight the good fight later to get it right. The payment was refunded the next day as an over payment. Final payment date came and went and our cruise was still booked.  I asked them to email an invoice that showed a zero balance which they did.  It is a nerve racking experience but it worked out for us.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Toby
fixed a typo

[whitsmom]

11 minutes ago, Toby said:

Happened to us with refunded specialty dining reservations.  I called and a supervisor who investigated found the total payments we made equal the total amount on our invoice and our cruise would not be cancelled.  It was a smaller amount than yours ($44.99) and I actually tried to pay it just to get it cleared and I would fight the good fight later to get it right. The payment was refunded the next day as an over payment. Final payment date came and went and our cruise was still booked.  I asked them to email an invoice shat showed a zero balance which they did.  It is a nerve racking experience but it worked out for us.

My TA said that "Somehow" it shows up that I repurchased those 3 items on June 21, 2022.  I cancelled them last August!  What gets me - if you purchased all those things you have to pay immediately so that should throw up a big red flag o their side.  I am truly thankful that I have a TA to deal with this because it is stressing me out as we cruise in 6 days!

[CrimsonCruiser]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

This has been a frequent glitch recently.  Refunded Cruise Planner purchases are triggering an incorrect unpaid balance situation.  They should be able to get it worked out, it's unfortunately pretty common.  

Glad I popped in here - we just had a cruise planner excursion cancelled on their end - so now I know to keep an eye out to make sure this doesn't happen to us.

[Neesa]

Happened to us right before our Mariner sailing. Either I paid it, I did not owe it, it was a canceled voom package(109.00$) or they would have taken it from Sharlas commission. Their math made no sense, I was sailing in a few days and even though I produced my cancelation proof they refused to acknowledge. We ate it because it was a good rate to begin with and I was not allowing them to cut my TA's commission. Another reason we are taking a Royal break after this 30 year anniversary sailing at the end of the month. 

[Moby Dick]

2 hours ago, Neesa said:

Happened to us right before our Mariner sailing. Either I paid it, I did not owe it, it was a canceled voom package(109.00$) or they would have taken it from Sharlas commission. Their math made no sense, I was sailing in a few days and even though I produced my cancelation proof they refused to acknowledge. We ate it because it was a good rate to begin with and I was not allowing them to cut my TA's commission. Another reason we are taking a Royal break after this 30 year anniversary sailing at the end of the month. 

Royal really needs to fire their IT department and start over.  They need some competency there.  

I hope you pursued it after your cruise.

[Done]

14 hours ago, Moby Dick said:

Royal really needs to fire their IT department and start over.  They need some competency there.  

I hope you pursued it after your cruise.

What bother me the most is they KNOW they have a problem and it STILL ISN'T FIXED!

[twangster]

15 hours ago, Moby Dick said:

Royal really needs to fire their IT department and start over.  They need some competency there.  

I have run IT organizations before.  The problem isn't the IT organization. 

IT will always yield exactly what they are funded to do.   If you don't fund an IT organization you can't expect state of the art IT infrastructure.   That can be okay because the definition of what is okay starts at the top of the organization.

Currently Royal's IT is doing exactly what senior leadership desire it to do and nothing more based on the money they are putting into their IT organization.  

Firing the IT organization would be a disaster.  All those lower level employees know how to care and feed the machine.  You can't rip and replace an IT organization without grinding the company to a halt.   More importantly if the new IT organization you put in its place is not given any more money compared to the old IT organization they won't be able to accomplish what the previous IT organization couldn't.  

If you decide your family can get by with an old car as your primary form of transportation that is your choice.  Other families around you might be getting new cars that come with new safety features and loads of bells & whistles.  It is your prerogative to decide your family doesn't need a new car payment even if you can afford it.  As the head of household you get to decide.  Your 20 year old car doesn't have a car payment but it breaks down once in while.  It needs more maintenance.  It isn't as fancy and doesn't have the latest features like CarPlay or Android Auto or even bluetooth handsfree.  It might not even have anti-lock brakes.  Maybe it has airbags.  It's your prerogative to decide those things are not important enough to justify spending money on a new car and incurring a new monthly payment.  IT is the same.  Executive leadership gets to make those decisions.  

The problems we all complain about are not the fault of IT, not exactly.  Blame the folks at the top.  

[WAAAYTOOO]

What's CarPlay and Android Auto ?  

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

What's CarPlay and Android Auto ?  

Oh you are one of those people.   

[Moby Dick]

10 minutes ago, twangster said:

I have run IT organizations before.  The problem isn't the IT organization. 

IT will always yield exactly what they are funded to do.   If you don't fund an IT organization you can't expect state of the art IT infrastructure.   That can be okay because the definition of what is okay starts at the top of the organization.

Currently Royal's IT is doing exactly what senior leadership desire it to do and nothing more based on the money they are putting into their IT organization.  

Firing the IT organization would be a disaster.  All those lower level employees know how to care and feed the machine.  You can't rip and replace an IT organization without grinding the company to a halt.   More importantly if the new IT organization you put in its place is not given any more money compared to the old IT organization they won't be able to accomplish what the previous IT organization couldn't.  

If you decide your family can get by with an old car as your primary form of transportation that is your choice.  Other families around you might be getting new cars that come with new safety features and loads of bells & whistles.  It is your prerogative to decide your family doesn't need a new car payment even if you can afford it.  As the head of household you get to decide.  Your 20 year old car doesn't have a car payment but it breaks down once in while.  It needs more maintenance.  It isn't as fancy, doesn't have the latest features like CarPlay or Android Auto.  It might not even have anti-lock brakes.  Maybe it has airbags.  It's your prerogative to decide those things are not important enough to justify spending money on a new car and incurring a new monthly payment.  It is the same.  Executive leadership gets to make those decisions.  

As the head of my household I'm not trying to convenience the general public that I'm running a well oiled machine and have their every customer service needs as a top priority. And, I'm not trying to get thousands of $ from the general public to purchase my product.  I'm sorry if you took my comment, "Fire their IT Department" literally.  They need to start at the top and work their way down as far as need be and at the same time, hiring proven replacements or promote proven existing IT professionals. 

But, I understand your desire to defend the profession.   

[twangster]

8 minutes ago, Moby Dick said:

As the head of my household I'm not trying to convenience the general public that I'm running a well oiled machine and have their every customer service needs as a top priority. And, I'm not trying to get thousands of $ from the general public to purchase my product.  I'm sorry if you took my comment, "Fire their IT Department" literally.  They need to start at the top and work their way down as far as need be and at the same time, hiring proven replacements or promote proven existing IT professionals. 

But, I understand your desire to defend the profession.   

The counter argument from a bean counter would be that before the shutdown the guest technology experience onshore sucked yet they were making fists full of money.  Why on earth would you put more money into a cost center that wouldn't yield any return or create new revenue?  They are going gangbusters with what they have.  Why fix what isn't broken (in their minds).

[Pooch]

23 minutes ago, twangster said:

Oh you are one of those people.   

Me too!  More bells & whistles means more stuff to break down and more distractions while driving!  

[Moby Dick]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

The counter argument from a bean counter would be that before the shutdown the guest technology experience onshore sucked yet they were making fists full of money.  Why on earth would you put more money into a cost center that wouldn't yield any return or create new revenue?  They are going gangbusters with what they have.  Why fix what isn't broken (in their minds).

Hence, start from the top down, as stated.  The CEO has got to be aware of what is going on with the digital system they have.  Get there IT VP or whatever is the top of the IT chain and demand better with a time line and ask what is needed to get it fixed, negotiate what is needed vs what can be afforded.  If things aren't fixed or significantly improved by the time line, time to start getting replacements.  

[twangster]

8 minutes ago, Moby Dick said:

Hence, start from the top down, as stated.  The CEO has got to be aware of what is going on with the digital system they have.  Get there IT VP or whatever is the top of the IT chain and demand better with a time line and ask what is needed to get it fixed, negotiate what is needed vs what can be afforded.  If things aren't fixed or significantly improved by the time line, time to start getting replacements.  

You are missing the point.  Jason Liberty and Michael Bayley don't think there is a problem,  not one worth putting $1 more into IT.  They don't care.  Money is super tight right now.  They are probably cutting the IT budget, not expanding it.  Sitting around the conference room after telling the IT VP they are going to have to do more with fewer resources they are willing to accept that it isn't going to be ideal.  "Better" costs money.  

[barbeyg]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

The counter argument from a bean counter would be that before the shutdown the guest technology experience onshore sucked yet they were making fists full of money.  Why on earth would you put more money into a cost center that wouldn't yield any return or create new revenue?  They are going gangbusters with what they have.  Why fix what isn't broken (in their minds).

This.  From a financial statement perspective, departments that aren't generating revenue, or new revenue, are just necessary expenses (evils) to the people at the top.  I work in corporate payroll, and we are simply an expense on the financials.....but it would be a catastrophe if our 25k employees weren't paid.  Management in many companies is already reluctant to put $$ into departments like ours and IT.  Add Covid, a shutdown, now a cooling down of the economy, and the website issues will probably get worse before better.

[Moby Dick]

23 minutes ago, twangster said:

You are missing the point.  Jason Liberty and Michael Bayley don't think there is a problem,  not one worth putting $1 more into IT.  They don't care.  Money is super tight right now.  They are probably cutting the IT budget, not expanding it.  Sitting around the conference room after telling the IT VP they are going to have to do more with fewer resources they are willing to accept that it isn't going to be ideal.  "Better" costs money.  

I appreciate what you are saying.  But, I'd like to know how you KNOW what Liberty and/or Bayley know or are thinking.  I'd find it hard to believe that they don't know or care about their customer's experience(s).  Call me naïve but I would think that a customer's experience and critical reviews of a company's performance wouldn't be at the top of the CEO's interest and concern.

[twangster]

52 minutes ago, Moby Dick said:

I appreciate what you are saying.  But, I'd like to know how you KNOW what Liberty and/or Bayley know or are thinking.  I'd find it hard to believe that they don't know or care about their customer's experience(s).  Call me naïve but I would think that a customer's experience and critical reviews of a company's performance wouldn't be at the top of the CEO's interest and concern.

Over the years as I have interviewed at large companies to lead their ITO I learned the questions to ask to gauge the corporate environment.   As a former SVP that led an ITO in the financial environment there are obvious flags.  I don't envy the folks who lead Royal's ITO.  I have a pretty good understanding of what they are dealing with.   When IT reports up through the CFO it usually is not a fun place to work for the folks in IT.  They typically are not willing to pay competitive salaries to hire the cream of crop.   You are left trying to hire the best but with a budget to hire something short of the best.  Sometimes you get lucky and hire a rising star but after a few years they figure out they can make more somewhere else.  Retaining good people requires good compensation.  Churn with ITO personnel can wreak havoc.   It's not any better with infrastructure.  When you don't have the budget to go there you make do with what you can get even though you know there is a better way.  Day after day you to deal with it.  From personnel to equipment.  It's no fun.

The issues we see at Royal have been around for a very long time.  A decade ago a buddy of mine who has a specialization working with databases was contracted to do some work with Royal.  Open Source databases are cheap (free) but they can grow into monsters and support can quickly become a problem when issues arise.  In this environment with thousands of reservations in flight it's like working on an airplane engine while the plane is flying.   Months turned into years and they kept coming back to him because there was no one in house with the database specialization to do the work (because they don't pay well).

You are correct.  I don't know for certain what is going on in Jason's or Michael's head.  But I have a pretty good idea.  

[AlmondFarmer]

I would suggest Royal brings back $18 deluxe beverage package creator as a temp worker. This would appease some of the frustrations guests are having with the pre cruise planner and invoicing. 

[Moby Dick]

25 minutes ago, twangster said:

Over the years as I have interviewed at large companies to lead their ITO I learned the questions to ask to gauge the corporate environment.   As a former SVP that led an ITO in the financial environment there are obvious flags.  I don't envy the folks who lead Royal's ITO.  I have a pretty good understanding of what they are dealing with.   When IT reports up through the CFO it usually is not a fun place to work for the folks in IT.  They typically are not willing to pay competitive salaries to hire the cream of crop.   You are left trying to hire the best but with a budget to hire something short of the best.  Sometimes you get lucky and hire a rising star but after a few years they figure out they can make more somewhere else.  Retaining good people requires good compensation.  Churn with ITO personnel can wreak havoc.   It's not any better with infrastructure.  When you don't have the budget to go there you make do with what you can get even though you know there is a better way.  Day after day you to deal with it.  From personnel to equipment.  It's no fun.

The issues we see at Royal have been around for a very long time.  A decade ago a buddy of mine who has a specialization working with databases was contracted to do some work with Royal.  Open Source databases are cheap (free) but they can grow into monsters and support can quickly become a problem when issues arise.  Is this environment with thousands of reservations in flight it's like working on an airplane engine while the plane is flying.   Months turned into years and they kept coming back to him because there was no one in house with the database specialization to do the work (because they don't pay well).

You are correct.  I don't know for certain what is going on in Jason's or Michael's head.  But I have a pretty good idea.  

I wouldn't argue that with you.  Not word for word, anyway.  I just think that Customer Service/Satisfaction/Experience and maintaining customer loyalty/repeat customers are a very important aspect in a company's success.  I don't think anybody can argue that.  And we have witnessed, in here, a few people that were repeat customers of Royal's that have said that they are leaving Royal or at least taking a break for them.  If it happens in this relatively small social media forum, you can only imagine how it is out there in the whole big wide world.  Something that I will never believe is that the CEO is ignorant about OR doesn't care about.  In my limited Corp experience, we didn't have the, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality".  We had the, "how can we make it better" mentality.  And it worked.  If Royal wants to quickly get back to pre-pandemic profits, they need to start thinkin about the long term, not short term.  I believe there is more to this story than what you or I are saying.  Maybe not nefarious, just something and I can't put my finger on it.  But, I still think there are far too many incompetent people at the top of the IT heap.  There are many issues with the website that don't take big $$$$ to fix or keep from happening.  Too many repeated, over and over again, issues.  When I read some posts in here and/or when I go to Royal's site, it kinda reminds me of "Groundhog Day".  

But, once again, we are beating a dead horse over and over again.  It really doesn't matter how we feel about Royal's IT, no matter how expert we feel we are about it.  They will do what they do and I will keep on complaining/commenting about what they do and my opinion of it.

[AlmondFarmer]

46 minutes ago, Moby Dick said:

If Royal wants to quickly get back to pre-pandemic profits, they need to start thinkin about the long term, not short term.

The economist in me struggles with this sentence. 

[Spang1974]

OFF TOPIC : The LARGEST and most successful optical manufacturer in the world chose Linux (nothing wrong with that) to base their in house operating system and retail software because it was FREE. Before that when they used MS-DOS as their OS(circa 2001), the same company would ship PCs from the US (made by AT&T) to the UK along with power converters because they had the PCs in stock in a warehouse and it was cheaper than buying a new PC to run the antiquated software. Just because a company is the best at one thing, and making a profit in the billions, doesn't mean they want to or are willing to spend money on IT. Royal have spent years bleeding cash at this point and their IT department is working for it's customers.. lets say 75%(to be stingy) of the time. I don't see them losing sleep or any money with that success rate:) With regards to the optical company ALL true, with regards to Royal, my opinion.

[Moby Dick]

2 hours ago, AlmondFarmer said:

The economist in me struggles with this sentence. 

After reviewing it, it may have been better to say, "If Royal wants to quickly get back to pre-pandemic profits, they need to start thinkin about the long term, not JUST the short term".

 

[whitsmom]

23 hours ago, Neesa said:

Happened to us right before our Mariner sailing. Either I paid it, I did not owe it, it was a canceled voom package(109.00$) or they would have taken it from Sharlas commission. Their math made no sense, I was sailing in a few days and even though I produced my cancelation proof they refused to acknowledge. We ate it because it was a good rate to begin with and I was not allowing them to cut my TA's commission. Another reason we are taking a Royal break after this 30 year anniversary sailing at the end of the month. 

My TA wasn't getting anywhere so he has RCI's Business Development Manager.  Mine is $640.01 so that is a lot to eat when I don't owe it!

[Moby Dick]

9 hours ago, Spang1974 said:

OFF TOPIC : The LARGEST and most successful optical manufacturer in the world chose Linux (nothing wrong with that) to base their in house operating system and retail software because it was FREE. Before that when they used MS-DOS as their OS(circa 2001), the same company would ship PCs from the US (made by AT&T) to the UK along with power converters because they had the PCs in stock in a warehouse and it was cheaper than buying a new PC to run the antiquated software. Just because a company is the best at one thing, and making a profit in the billions, doesn't mean they want to or are willing to spend money on IT. Royal have spent years bleeding cash at this point and their IT department is working for it's customers.. lets say 75%(to be stingy) of the time. I don't see them losing sleep or any money with that success rate:) With regards to the optical company ALL true, with regards to Royal, my opinion.

To Spang1974:

Yep, "opinion".  We are all entitled to one. 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A generalized statement:

Some folks seem to think that an "opinion" is a statement of fact.  All my comments above are "my opinions", not statements of fact, not statements of experience (I have never been the CEO of Royal), just the world according to Jay.  YMMV

[whitsmom]

19 hours ago, whitsmom said:

My TA wasn't getting anywhere so he has RCI's Business Development Manager.  Mine is $640.01 so that is a lot to eat when I don't owe it!

UPDATE:  The BDM finally called my TA and said it was a "coding error" on their accounting side.  They did place a note on our reservation not to cancel the cruise and that accounting was correcting the issue. 

[Pattycruise]

fantastic.  Glad it was handled so quickly!!!  Enjoy your cruise!!