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Any News on Protocols?


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5 hours ago, Bigpimp said:

I would say you probably right, however if they want full ships it will have to go away sooner than later depending on when they want 100% capacity. Can’t be back to “normal” without normal process to board 

It will be "new" normal if they want to continue to sail. Considering they have had some ships to reach 100% with the testing and vax in place, your point is moot. 

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6 hours ago, Matt F said:

Regarding vaccination and testing requirements going away, I was told "not anytime soon" this last Sunday by the NextCruise rep on my cruise. CDC has lowered the cruise warning because of the protocols.

I’m pretty sure most of the folks that read RoyalCaribbeanBlog are probably more knowledgeable than your average NextCruise rep.  They aren’t in the RCI short term or long term strategy discussions.  They will know when we know.

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13 minutes ago, gatorskin76 said:

I’m pretty sure most of the folks that read RoyalCaribbeanBlog are probably more knowledgeable than your average NextCruise rep.  They aren’t in the RCI short term or long term strategy discussions.  They will know when we know.

Especially since the CDC raised the warning level up to 4 with those same protocols in place

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1 hour ago, gatorskin76 said:

I’m pretty sure most of the folks that read RoyalCaribbeanBlog are probably more knowledgeable than your average NextCruise rep.  They aren’t in the RCI short term or long term strategy discussions.  They will know when we know.

True... I only mentioned it because I specifically asked the question a couple days ago and that was the response.

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8 hours ago, Templecruiser said:

With cruise with confidence gone now after September, how does it work if you test positive after doing the 2 day test before cruise starts.

There’s a different policy to cover that scenario and you’ll get a refund

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/if-i-test-positive-for-sars-cov-2-what-is-your-refund-policy-and-costs-covered

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13 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Not really... "Some" doesn't equal "most" and once you consider that the extra 5% capacity is likely their fattest in terms of pure profit, it's a pretty big prize for them to go after as soon as it is possible (and beneficial) to do so.

You implied that 100% isn't possible with the current restrictions and I just stated it has happened. They might not reach 100% without the protocols, as plenty of sailings I had been on before covid weren't at 100%. Yes, RCG wants to get and stay in the black, but I believe they will do it with the least amount of liability.

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I think another important consideration is that the increase in capacity which we've seen over our past three cruises since January is occurring with vaccine mandates and testing in place.  RCCL could risk a decrease in demand should these protocols be done away with as many people are choosing to cruise because these protocols are in place.  

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32 minutes ago, recogneyes said:

RCCL could risk a decrease in demand should these protocols be done away with as many people are choosing to cruise because these protocols are in place.  

I'm willing to bet the number of people who would sail if protocols were done away with is higher than the ones that would stop sailing.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm willing to bet the number of people who would sail if protocols were done away with is higher than the ones that would stop sailing.

 

 

That absolutely could be the case but as a business, why risk it?  The sailing capacities continue to increase so in the short term it's not really hindering business - at least not enough that the cruise lines are willing to take the chance.  At some point the protocols will go away .... we just can't say when.  

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Masks becoming optional was huge boost to bookings.  So it seems that is one protocol that deterred many potential guests from sailing.  Sentiments to that effect were common as the restart protocols were announced.

I think we all have our own tolerance and expectations as it relates to cruising protocols.  That's okay, there is nothing wrong with each of us agreeing to, or disagreeing with protocols and in so doing choosing to sail or not to sail.  

Capacity is just one protocol knob that can be adjusted.  No single protocol makes anyone safe or unsafe by itself.  Collectively what Royal has done as dictated not only by the CDC but also by the Healthy Sail Panel has a clear track record of working.  During both Delta and Omicron while numbers raged on land they were greatly diminished on cruise ships which is claimed to be a more transmissive environment so the protocols worked.

As society opens more and eliminates protocols so can cruising.  

7 minutes ago, recogneyes said:

but as a business, why risk it? 

Because no business can be shut down for 18 months then operate deep in the red for the next 12 months.  That is a recipe for bankruptcy.  They need to make hay while the sun is shining. 

Cases are down on land so fewer cases are being brought on board.  They still have ships floating empty costing millions per week to keep them in that state.  A few ships at slightly higher capacity isn't enough to offset the losses.  They need capacity raised so they don't have to declare bankruptcy.  

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13 minutes ago, recogneyes said:

That absolutely could be the case but as a business, why risk it? 

Because the success of the cruise industry relies on every ship being at or near 100% capacity and that'll never happen with protocols still in place. That doesn't mean protocols will be dropped en masse on any one given day, but that's what the cruise lines need to get back to good.

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The other thing to consider is the CDC has always been extremely hard on the industry.  Extreme is not an understatement.  Even this extremely biased and cruise ship hating agency has backed off and stopped warning against cruise travel for healthy individuals. 

The fact that the CDC is now given up it's anti-cruise position speaks volumes about what they see is going on with the virus.   It's gotta be safe or they would be still ranting like mad scientists to avoid cruise ships.  

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31 minutes ago, twangster said:

The other thing to consider is the CDC has always been extremely hard on the industry.  Extreme is not an understatement.  Even this extremely biased and cruise ship hating agency has backed off and stopped warning against cruise travel for healthy individuals. 

The fact that the CDC is now given up it's anti-cruise position speaks volumes about what they see is going on with the virus.   It's gotta be safe or they would be still ranting like mad scientists to avoid cruise ships.  

I think you are bang on with all of that!  

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On 4/6/2022 at 1:58 PM, Matt said:

Zero

@Matt I beg to differ.

According to a quote from CEO Michael Bayley at the CLIA 360 Event in Ft Lauderdale on March 30th, stated "Bayley added: “I think from everything we’ve learned about the CDC, who tend to guide a lot of this, is that when they really believe that it’s really moving from a pandemic to endemic, when they really believe that the positivity rates have declined to such a degree that it really poses no risk, I think that’s when we’re going to start seeing the government and governments start removing these testing requirements ... I think we’re going to see that probably by the summer.”

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/cruise-line-presidents-provide-update-on-cruising-current-events.html

That is hopefully the direction we are moving.

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2 hours ago, recogneyes said:

That absolutely could be the case but as a business, why risk it?  The sailing capacities continue to increase so in the short term it's not really hindering business - at least not enough that the cruise lines are willing to take the chance.  At some point the protocols will go away .... we just can't say when.  

"Willing to take the chance"... Yet. And this is a conversation of pure hypotheticals. There is a painfully obvious business case to get rid of the protocols.

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18 minutes ago, Midwest Cruiser said:

@Matt I beg to differ.

According to a quote from CEO Michael Bayley at the CLIA 360 Event in Ft Lauderdale on March 30th, stated "Bayley added: “I think from everything we’ve learned about the CDC, who tend to guide a lot of this, is that when they really believe that it’s really moving from a pandemic to endemic, when they really believe that the positivity rates have declined to such a degree that it really poses no risk, I think that’s when we’re going to start seeing the government and governments start removing these testing requirements ... I think we’re going to see that probably by the summer.”

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/cruise-line-presidents-provide-update-on-cruising-current-events.html

That is hopefully the direction we are moving.

I'd like to add to that as well.  Royal is in a particularly tricky spot when it comes to sailings this Summer.  In order to adhere to the 95% vaccination rate for the CDC, they will have to rely on high vaccination rates of kids or lower numbers of them.  Michael Bayley mentioned in his interview with TTG that "kids between five and twelve - well it's not mandatory - but we're vaccinated at about sixty percent of that population; sixty, seventy percent".

If we take Oasis as an example, with full capacity of 5606 guests that means to comply with the 95% rule, only 280 passengers can be unvaccinated.  Going off of what Michael Bayley mentioned between 60 and 70 percent of kids aged 5-12 being vaccinated, if the ship has over 934 kids aged 5-12 onboard (about 17% of all guests) there would likely be less than 95% of population vaccinated and wouldn't meet the current CDC criteria.

I find it hard to believe they could meet that threshold in the Summer months after offering this Kids Sail Free promo.  It seems to me that they are banking on the CDC either relaxing the 95% requirement or have plans to withdraw if the CDC doesn't do so.  Regardless, I don't think they will eliminate vaccine or testing requirements unless the CDC eliminates it from their guidelines.

Things can change quickly, so we won't know until we're there.  But one thing is certain that Royal will be in a tight spot if the 95% rule is maintained throughout this Summer.

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I think, 100%, testing will stay for a while. I could see vax requirement going before testing. But I believe that there is no way all the restrictions get dropped by this summer. The CDC dropping the threat level doesn't indicate that they believe cruising is "safe" or backtracking on their harsh treatment. I think the CDC realized we have to create our new normal. Everyone is doing this. Restaurants nor longer have floor plans that are about packing as many people as possible into a small space. Cruise ships will probably have quarantine rooms set aside for years now, so 100% capacity will look different. 

As to the person who asked if I worked for RCG. Nope.

@Midwest Cruiser I read the entire article and that quote implies about testing for the UK and such. Not pre-cruise testing.

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1 hour ago, AspiringCruisePlanner said:

 

If we take Oasis as an example, with full capacity of 5606 guests that means to comply with the 95% rule, only 280 passengers can be unvaccinated.  Going off of what Michael Bayley mentioned between 60 and 70 percent of kids aged 5-12 being vaccinated, if the ship has over 934 kids aged 5-12 onboard (about 17% of all guests) there would likely be less than 95% of population vaccinated and wouldn't meet the current CDC criteria.

 

It is 95% of the people on board, so the 2000 vaccinated crew members change your math somewhat.  You do bring up a good point as to how Royal would handle that situation.

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9 minutes ago, wordell1 said:

It is 95% of the people on board, so the 2000 vaccinated crew members change your math somewhat.  You do bring up a good point as to how Royal would handle that situation.

I thought that was the case when I first heard it, but the crew and passenger percentages are calculated separately.

"Highly Vaccinated: ships with at least 95% passengers and 95% crew who are fully vaccinated, but with less than 95% of passengers and 95% of crew who are up to date with their COVID-19 vaccines."

Although, I do believe @smokeybandit is on to something about this being somewhat flexible behind the curtain.

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16 hours ago, Ampurp85 said:

I think, 100%, testing will stay for a while. I could see vax requirement going before testing. But I believe that there is no way all the restrictions get dropped by this summer. The CDC dropping the threat level doesn't indicate that they believe cruising is "safe" or backtracking on their harsh treatment. I think the CDC realized we have to create our new normal. Everyone is doing this. Restaurants nor longer have floor plans that are about packing as many people as possible into a small space. Cruise ships will probably have quarantine rooms set aside for years now, so 100% capacity will look different. 

As to the person who asked if I worked for RCG. Nope.

@Midwest Cruiser I read the entire article and that quote implies about testing for the UK and such. Not pre-cruise testing.

@Ampurp85 it does pertain to the US pre cruise testing. Although there is mention of the UK in the paragraphs above, Bayley explicitly mentions the CDC, since they only govern(which they shouldn't) cruises out of the US ports, in the CDC and RCL relaxing the testing sometime this summer.

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If you haven't heard, there are starting to be spikes again of Covid. It seems Philadelphia might go back to a mask mandate. This being said, if this starts happening in more cities, the CDC may bring this back to our cruise ships. Lets sure hope not. Being that it was also just spring break, we may see higher cases soon. Sorry for the Friday bummer.

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9 hours ago, Midwest Cruiser said:

@Ampurp85 it does pertain to the US pre cruise testing. Although there is mention of the UK in the paragraphs above, Bayley explicitly mentions the CDC, since they only govern(which they shouldn't) cruises out of the US ports, in the CDC and RCL relaxing the testing sometime this summer.

Yes but that whole section started with protocols and such for Uk and European sailing. I still inferred it to mean UK and Europe sailings because it is the US testing issues that make it hard for US citizens to travel to and from the UK. Prior in the article they talk about hoping that cursing is fully back by Dec. I have bookings for Nov and couldn't book certain rooms because they are holding them back for quarantine. Testing will go away but not by April 14 or the summer.

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14 hours ago, Ja-sun said:

If you haven't heard, there are starting to be spikes again of Covid. It seems Philadelphia might go back to a mask mandate. This being said, if this starts happening in more cities, the CDC may bring this back to our cruise ships. Lets sure hope not. Being that it was also just spring break, we may see higher cases soon. Sorry for the Friday bummer.

The news on spikes can be misleading, check this article from the philly newspaper  https://www.inquirer.com/health/philadelphia-mask-mandate-covid-cases-20220406.html

they have a arbitrary formula to bring back masks, if two things happen they bring them back, one being if cases increase 50% in 10 days, another being more than 100 cases a day. Look at the charts, in January they were averaging 4,000 cases per day, it fell to 55 and has doubled to 110 so a rational person wouldn't panic but it triggers their arbitrary and outdated formula for 1.5 million people. Google "philadelphia covid" and you can also see the chart for the entire pandemic. In the lulls, 200 cases a day is a low period, 6,000 plus is the high period, plus they don't report on weekends so there's spikes on Mondays. Those policy makers are making it hard for the rest of the country to navigate the pandemic or if, god forbid, there is another one by being statistically unreasonable and giving credibility to conspiracy theories. The media is complicit in hyping statistically insignificant blips which will cause actual spikes to be dismissed by the public. There's a fable about this, has to do with a boy and a wolf, didn't end well.

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On 4/8/2022 at 11:12 AM, Ja-sun said:

If you haven't heard, there are starting to be spikes again of Covid. It seems Philadelphia might go back to a mask mandate. This being said, if this starts happening in more cities, the CDC may bring this back to our cruise ships. Lets sure hope not. Being that it was also just spring break, we may see higher cases soon. Sorry for the Friday bummer.

Spike in cases means nothing, even the uber conservative CDC now acknowledges that, hospitalizations have remaining unchanged; THAT is the number to look at.

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Question from a newbie here. I just booked for Odyssey of the seas, November 13-19 with the kids sail free sale. Us adults are fully vaccinated but my children aged 9 & 11 are not. How does Royal account for these 95% vaccinated numbers at time of booking? they didn't ask our vaccination status at time of booking? I asked on the phone and was informed my kids would just need to complete a PCR up to 3 days before and then a rapid test prior to boarding. Nov 19

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15 hours ago, Micheleyd said:

Question from a newbie here. I just booked for Odyssey of the seas, November 13-19 with the kids sail free sale. Us adults are fully vaccinated but my children aged 9 & 11 are not. How does Royal account for these 95% vaccinated numbers at time of booking? they didn't ask our vaccination status at time of booking? I asked on the phone and was informed my kids would just need to complete a PCR up to 3 days before and then a rapid test prior to boarding. Nov 19

I seriously doubt RCL is managing the vaccination rates at all through booking.  I think they ask if you are and probably note it, but they aren't trying to get to 95% through the booking process, only through the sail process.  Hopefully things will be much different come November, but as things stand right now, I think it is correct that your children will need to follow the 'unvaccinated children test requirements' ie. the PCR test up to 3 days prior. 

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I'm trying to figure out what is/will be required for a 7-Day Scandinavia and Northern Europe trip I have scheduled for the first week in July, departing from Stockholm.  Totally new at travelling abroad during Covid, and I don't understand what's required as far as testing and acceptable timeframes.  Heck, RC doesn't even LIST Stockholm as one of their departure ports!

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1 hour ago, AdventureKenandCar said:

I'm trying to figure out what is/will be required for a 7-Day Scandinavia and Northern Europe trip I have scheduled for the first week in July, departing from Stockholm.  Totally new at travelling abroad during Covid, and I don't understand what's required as far as testing and acceptable timeframes.  Heck, RC doesn't even LIST Stockholm as one of their departure ports!

As of April 1, Sweden has lifted all covid-related entry regulations. IATA - International Travel Document News (iatatravelcentre.com)

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