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Covid surge … Do you think RC will cancel upcoming cruises?


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Of any that probably should be canceled is the Grandeur of the Seas sailing out of Barbados.
As of today…According to The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice for…
Barbados, Tobago, Trinidad, St Vincent, St Lucia, Dominica, Grenada.

Every port of call location is at a Level 4 Travel Health Notice (Do Not Travel) due to COVID-19 including Barbados.

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I think deep1's analysis is correct. We went on one of the summer sailings out of Nassau on Adventure and I noticed they jacked up the prices or eliminated types of inside rooms about a few weeks out and about a week out it wasn't bookable at all ( I was checking occasionally to get intel for my royal up offer). Turns out the ship was pretty empty once we got on, I think whole sections were vacant on lower floors probably because their computer just dropped cheaper room categories then the whole cruise as it approached capacity (rumored to be 25% in those early days). Our next cruise just dropped off entirely, Liberty on January 9th, less than 20 days away and looking at room availability yesterday it was between 50% and 75% full (hard to tell, could be lower if they held back rooms in addition to what was available). I was trying to see if there were lots of cancellations due to the casino smoking and masking everywhere policy changes even though it is just outside the Jan 5th re-evaluation date that will probably be extended. Whatever capacity number they set today, it was at that number so it stopped taking new bookings. The following week is still available and will likely drop off as it  hits the newer lower capacity.

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I think a blind man can see the writing on the wall folks; there will be another shutdown of cruising. The pleas from hospitals, the obvious impacts on professional sports, the positive cases aboard Explorer and Symphony; it does not take a Phd in virology to see that the virus is going to force another shutdown of our society and that includes cruising.

 

This shutdown should be a whole lot more unsympathetic. This time around the cruise lines management should be the ones responsible for allowing themselves into a mess they had all the tools to prevent. And, I think they should be held accountable. Healthy Sail Panels, health screenings, reduced capacities, eliminated excursions, air filtration upgrades-- a cruise ship is supposed to be this squeaky clean environment; better than walking down the street you live on. Except...clearly, they are not. 

 

It's management that has allowed unvaccinated passengers aboard (yeah, even if they were kids). They have permitted individual passengers to tell them when and how masks will be worn. Perhaps most egregious is Richard Fain making a mockery of the absolute #1 best way to reduce disease transmission--washing your hands.

 

I dare anyone of you to take a makeout session one step further in a hallway with someone you have hooked up with in the disco. Step on a railing in the Centrum to get a higher vantage point to take a picture. Be an employee who admits they disagree with their workload or at one point in time-- get this-- audibly mention they worked for another cruise line. We all know what stern punishment happens with those much smaller, seemingly inconsequential things.

 

It was so easy, if only Covid protocols were handled in the same manner as an onboard argument with your spouse. Ships would be sailing, sea days be had, and yes a cruise ship would be safer than walking down the street you live on.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, bobroo said:

The pleas from hospitals, the obvious impacts on professional sports, the positive cases aboard Explorer and Symphony; it does not take a Phd in virology to see that the virus is going to force another shutdown of our society and that includes cruising.

 

-Pleas from the hospitals will be there no matter what, especially hospitals suffering self-inflicted staffing shortages.

-Professional sports are already changing their protocols since they realize keeping asymptomatic people off the field is not a common sense approach anymore as covid weakens

-There have been cases on cruise ships since June.  With current protocols there will ALWAYS be cases found on ships.

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Being on the Odyssey right now my own personal assessment is the cruise line got excited and relaxed to soon. I had said previously after our November Oasis sailing they were on the path to shutting themselves down, their own fault. 

The last minute protocol  changes regarding masks, smoking in casino (Not a smoker) etc may not have been needed or an issue if they didn't ramp up capacity so darn fast and/or made the notifications in a more timely manner. 

There is a family in the Suite Lounge that are clearly sick with something. The coughing and sneezing is so bad we won't visit there anymore. They are extended. Grandparents on down to little ones. Our Suite concierge has disappeared never to be seen again after night 2. We are avoiding the suite lounge now. Period. What, no one else hears this? Shouldn't a test be in order? No. Why? I can only surmise $$$$

We have adjusted our behaviors as we are not mask wearers but do so because we agreed to adhere to sail. This sailing is our family Christmas event, we participate within our comfort level for our experience...but,

Shame on Royal. There are too many people on this ship and protocols they put in place are not being enforced or followed, so IF there is a shut down it belongs in my humble opinion squarely on their shoulders, this ship is packed. I do not believe the number of 3700 with 1700 children, no way.  Good Luck Royal but I think greed may have gotten in the way, just my personal observation. 

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20 minutes ago, Neesa said:

Being on the Odyssey right now my own personal assessment is the cruise line got excited and relaxed to soon. I had said previously after our November Oasis sailing they were on the path to shutting themselves down, their own fault. 

The last minute protocol  changes regarding masks, smoking in casino (Not a smoker) etc may not have been needed or an issue if they didn't ramp up capacity so darn fast and/or made the notifications in a more timely manner. 

There is a family in the Suite Lounge that are clearly sick with something. The coughing and sneezing is so bad we won't visit there anymore. They are extended. Grandparents on down to little ones. Our Suite concierge has disappeared never to be seen again after night 2. We are avoiding the suite lounge now. Period. What, no one else hears this? Shouldn't a test be in order? No. Why? I can only surmise $$$$

We have adjusted our behaviors as we are not mask wearers but do so because we agreed to adhere to sail. This sailing is our family Christmas event, we participate within our comfort level for our experience...but,

Shame on Royal. There are too many people on this ship and protocols they put in place are not being enforced or followed, so IF there is a shut down it belongs in my humble opinion squarely on their shoulders, this ship is packed. I do not believe the number of 3700 with 1700 children, no way.  Good Luck Royal but I think greed may have gotten in the way, just my personal observation. 

The counterargument is that no one saw omicron coming.  We all hoped that the virus was nearing its end, or at least we as a society had learned to live with it.  That's not the case.

Sports leagues have shut down, did they open too fast?

Some regions are closing bars, restaurants and gyms.  Did they open too fast?

There is a saying...  "Make hay while the sun shines".  That is what all businesses have tried to do during the "good" times of this pandemic.  This is what Royal has done.

Many have said that businesses like the cruise industry need to work with the government as the pandemic ebbs and flows, yet here we are with exactly that occurring and now they are criticized for opening too much, too fast.   

The way I see it exactly what needs to occur is happening.  They are reacting to the changing tides of the pandemic.  Once Omicron is behind us, and it will be, they can surge forward again, hoping again, that society will eventually stabilize with the virus.  It may never go away but like with other viruses we will eventually stabilize with it.   Until then Royal needs to make hay whenever they can and ease back when they must.

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10 hours ago, deep1 said:

Something I saw  and still see as a little "different" is that they flooded one of my salings  people for a March sailing on Anthem with  Royal Up offers... I usually get them much closer to sailing time. 

 

I received the Royal Up email for my March Anthem sailing!  First time I actually get a chance to bid since my husband and I are sailing “just us” this time!  Since I also saved $500 using AMEX offer I am excited to bid!  Of course, my luck…something will happen and ruin my excitement but no one knows the future!  Now if only the check-in would open up!

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IMHO there is no way the cruise lines shut down. As stated, many times before, zero cases were never going to happen. The protocols are working. Not only are we dealing with variants and covid...but it's cold and flu season. Any shutdown that happens now will pretty much kill the industry. I think people really need to get it in their heads that this virus is here, we need to adjust life around it. 

I don't think that pushing for over 70% for holiday sailing was the brightest idea. Especially if you weren't going to change the protocols.

I sail on Indy on Jan 10th, and it has been removed from the bookings. I don't think it has been cancelled. I think they reached capacity, whatever number they feel comfortable with. Sailings have been removed and closed before. FB is a cesspool of opinions and false information.

 

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My 2 cents, as a highly trained internet googling expert,  The government is going to shift or attempt to shift the focus from # of case to # of hospitalizations.  If hospitalizations and death go up to taxing the health care system then cruises are getting another stop sail order.  The good news is that whiles cases are and will continue to rise hospitalizations are not climbing in sync with them as they were last year due to the vaccines. 

 

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The thing that I think I see as a key difference (and why I don't think sailings will cancel - although I do think they'll reduce capacity where they can) is that if you are vaccinated (as everyone on board these sailings are) is that Omicron will not put you in the hospital if you are vaccinated. While it is more contagious, it is also reportedly more mild. The main purpose of the vaccines is to keep you out of the hospital and keep those who are vaccinated from overwhelming the hospital system (or, the on board medical center). 

The concern remains that the virus will continue to mutate and we'll see a variant that is both more contagious and deadly, but for the reasons I stated above I don't think that we will shut down. We are much better equipped to understand this now than we were in March of 2020. The only thing we can do is control our own actions (and, continue to work to help keep others safe where we can). 

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I also don't things will be shut down. The state of New York is imploding yet the politicians repeatedly say there will be no lock downs.  The numbers on ships are far lower then the numbers in the community.  If people are concerned, they really shouldn't be booking or going on cruises as there will likely be many incidents on ships, just because of the overall prevalence. They would save themselves a lot of disappointment and angst.

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1 hour ago, AndrewPunch said:

The government is going to shift or attempt to shift the focus from # of case to # of hospitalizations. 

This is a good first step but hospitalization numbers don't give a truly accurate picture since it's a mix of people admitted for covid treatment as well as people admitted for something unrelated to covid but then test positive upon admission during routine testing.

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2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

-Pleas from the hospitals will be there no matter what, especially hospitals suffering self-inflicted staffing shortages.

-Professional sports are already changing their protocols since they realize keeping asymptomatic people off the field is not a common sense approach anymore as covid weakens

-There have been cases on cruise ships since June.  With current protocols there will ALWAYS be cases found on ships.

Our local hospitals currently are not making any pleas as we got past Delta, but when we were in the thick of Delta they were, but they didn't mandate vaccines, so there was no self inflicted wounds.  Not all hospitals are the same, so when health officials plead, we should listen.  I will say where I live when pleas happened mask wearing went way up and we got thru Delta much better.

I don't see all of cruises being shut down over Omicron because Omicron is not hitting hospitals to begin with.  So any hospitals overrun are still dealing with Delta.  I think it will be individual cruises based on staffing.

The one HUGE mistake I think RC made and they are regretting this and changing this quickly but too late for some cruises is upping capacity.  They should have stuck with the 65% the CEO stated and upping by 5% every month or two.  They got greedy and that is going to cause them headaches and may cause individual cruises to be cancelled.  They jumped too high too fast and got caught in Omicron worse than they would have been.  Because social distancing is impossible at 100%.

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57 minutes ago, IzzyB said:

The one HUGE mistake I think RC made and they are regretting this and changing this quickly but too late for some cruises is upping capacity.  They should have stuck with the 65% the CEO stated and upping by 5% every month or two.  They got greedy and that is going to cause them headaches and may cause individual cruises to be cancelled.  They jumped too high too fast and got caught in Omicron worse than they would have been.  Because social distancing is impossible at 100%.

I don't see it as a mistake.  It doesn't matter if they were still at 30% capacity the reaction and opinions about cruising would be the same.  The protocols are working on ships and they are adapting to the current pandemic progression by updating the protocols.  Even if ships were still down at 30% capacity the mask policy would have still been updated as required by the CDC.  

It's easy to armchair quarterback while in reality no matter what capacity is on board right would have resulted in the same outcome.

The smart thing to do is to stop new bookings in light of this variant.  That would be the smart reaction regardless of how we got to today, regardless if we were at 10% capacity or 90% capacity.  In the future if some future variant is highly spreadable the smart action at that future point in time will be to pause new bookings then. This is a far better reaction compared to the knee jerk reaction of shutting down the industry.  

No different protocols, booking trends or capacity limits would have changed the outcome and what they face today because ships are not the reason why this new variant is upon us. 

If the requirement will ever be placed on cruise lines they must never exceed 30% or 50% capacity they might as well declare it and shut down.  Just like a land restaurant that would have to make the same decision, if the long term requirement is never to go above 50% they might as well call it and go out of business.

Cruise lines must be able to scale up and down as the pandemic ebbs and flows.  Otherwise there is no business point in going on.

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4 hours ago, twangster said:

I don't see it as a mistake.  It doesn't matter if they were still at 30% capacity the reaction and opinions about cruising would be the same.  The protocols are working on ships and they are adapting to the current pandemic progression by updating the protocols.  Even if ships were still down at 30% capacity the mask policy would have still been updated as required by the CDC.  

It's easy to armchair quarterback while in reality no matter what capacity is on board right would have resulted in the same outcome.

The smart thing to do is to stop new bookings in light of this variant.  That would be the smart reaction regardless of how we got to today, regardless if we were at 10% capacity or 90% capacity.  In the future if some future variant is highly spreadable the smart action at that future point in time will be to pause new bookings then. This is a far better reaction compared to the knee jerk reaction of shutting down the industry.  

No different protocols, booking trends or capacity limits would have changed the outcome and what they face today because ships are not the reason why this new variant is upon us. 

If the requirement will ever be placed on cruise lines they must never exceed 30% or 50% capacity they might as well declare it and shut down.  Just like a land restaurant that would have to make the same decision, if the long term requirement is never to go above 50% they might as well call it and go out of business.

Cruise lines must be able to scale up and down as the pandemic ebbs and flows.  Otherwise there is no business point in going on.

I see it differently.  There is no way to social distance at 100%.  The biggest mistake I have seen states and schools make is they change too much at once.  You can't go to 100% until you have tested higher capacity in theaters and vaxed areas.  So the best way to do this would reduce the number of shows and allow more people in the shows.  Do that for a bit and see how it goes.  Add more kids to AO and see how it goes.  Add more people to the pools and see how it goes.  But they went from everything reduced capacity to making ships 100% overnight. That was too much.  Because now you don't have the capacity in the pools, shows, and AO for that.  I am not against them getting to 100% what I am against is them jumping from 60 to 100 overnight and not being ready for that.  They flat out are not ready to handle 100% at venues, pools, and AO.  They aren't there yet.  And honestly I am super frustrated because the CEO said 65% thru December and I booked based on that statement.  I surely didn't book to now not be able to do anything because everything is reduced capacity and they crammed people in the ship. That is then going to make the pools and everything else super crowded because no one can do the other stuff.

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16 hours ago, TXCoastPatriot said:

Of any that probably should be canceled is the Grandeur of the Seas sailing out of Barbados.
As of today…According to The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice for…
Barbados, Tobago, Trinidad, St Vincent, St Lucia, Dominica, Grenada.

Every port of call location is at a Level 4 Travel Health Notice (Do Not Travel) due to COVID-19 including Barbados.

Aww.  Don't say that!  I just got my link from RC for my pre-embarkation antigen test.  Barbados officials won't be denying international travel anytime soon.  I trust that they have things under control.

 

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16 hours ago, TXCoastPatriot said:

Of any that probably should be canceled is the Grandeur of the Seas sailing out of Barbados.
As of today…According to The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice for…
Barbados, Tobago, Trinidad, St Vincent, St Lucia, Dominica, Grenada.

Every port of call location is at a Level 4 Travel Health Notice (Do Not Travel) due to COVID-19 including Barbados.

Just about all ports of call have been 4 at one point or another since cruising restarted.

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I’m just not sure what more some of you think royal could do? Short of stopping cruises altogether, there isn’t much more than could be done that they haven’t already done. As matt has said , they aren’t close to full capacity yet. Again, I was on odyssey 11 days ago and everything was fine. This explosion in cases has literally happened overnight. We all know the risks when we book in this climate. It’s sucks for those no doubt currently on ships , but this too shall pass. Going to be a tough 4-6 weeks in regards to case counts. 

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For me personally, I think Royal has done a pretty decent job at trying to continue cruising during pandemic. Any venue that has a lot people congregating together you increase the risk of spreading. What I think some of the alarmist tend to forget is that the vaccine was never meant to prevent asymptomatic or mild covid. I fully expect royal to possibly slow down their increase in capacity. 

I also caution cruisers from looking too much at only the number of positive cases. We have to look at the types of cases as well as who is getting infected. If its the vaccinated on board but they are asymptomatic or mild, then there really isn't too much to worry about. However, if there is spread amongst the vaccinated and it leads to serious covid with hospitalization, then I would be more concerned. 

This isn't to say that Royal or cruises should not be concerned about Omnicron. I think we should all be cautious. I know for myself even if there is no mask mandate, I wear a mask when I cannot social distance and when I cannot control who I am interacting with.  I know there are some who say lets not worry about omnicron because its less deadly than delta. However this is not a great way of looking at this variant. Is omnicron less deadly because the world is becoming more and more vaccinated against Covid? or is it because it is truely less deadly? Secondly I know some have voiced their opnion about not caring about omnicron because if i'm asymtomatic why should I care? Again one maybe asymptomatic and it doesn't adversely impact them, but that person can still adversely impact others such as children who are not vaccinated and on board. 

Overall I do not expect there to be cancelations baring an outbreak of severe cases of Omnicron or any other Covid variant.  What I do expect are future protocol pivots/changes. My advise for cruisers would be to try and be as flexible as possible as RCL changes their policy and also understand that protocol changes maybe just as inevitable as port changes or time changes when going on board. 

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2 hours ago, Bob13 said:

If a cruise will be cancelled it’s because there is an outbreak within the crew, and there might not be enough people to run all the venues.

We don't have a problem with masks. It is the closing down of shows and other venues on ship that is the deal breaker for us. Add to that reduced or no port stops and a 7 night cruise to no where with reduced amenenties on board is what has me concerned. Ugh. I'm looking at my packed suitcase and in tears. So frustrated.

 

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@Baked Alaska follow your heart. Make a choice to enjoy what you can and roll with everything else. Going in knowing you may not be able to visit ports, or secure certain reservations as well as shows being canceled during this time but making the best of the rest.....go duck hunting! 

It is crowded, the staff is telling us they are at 100% of every cabin available to be sold that Royal Corporate said just for the Holidays, I love people who say no 75% who aren't on the ship right now, so be prepared, it's packed. 

If you can deal with this don't cry, turn that frown upside down and make it a different type of sailing, we are doing more room service and cabin balcony time.....knowing all this ahead of time will make it more palatable. I wish you a Merry Christmas! Celebrate the positives, who knows maybe you will make some new memories you would want to repeat even after this is all over. 

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

No ship is at 100%. Best would be 75% so far.

 

6 hours ago, twangster said:

Guest cabin areas of the ship are still set aside for crew quarantine as they arrive and other guest cabin areas of the ship are set aside for isolation should it be required per CDC guidelines.  Which ship is at 100%?

@Neesa. What did you say about what you were told about capacity on Odyssey? 

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7 hours ago, RWDW1204 said:

 

@Neesa. What did you say about what you were told about capacity on Odyssey? 

Crew rumors notwithstanding, how are they supposed to reach 100% when not all cabins are available and you have to know some people are getting cold feet and cancelling.

They may be reaching some sort of a new high number but I just don't see how it is 100%.

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We were told by a crew member corporate told them we are sailing with 100% this sailing and the next. More then any time since restart. The 100% is every bookable cabin minus those held back for crew and quarantine. There are bodies essentially everywhere. The line up to enter Windjammer in the morning is comical, so long it makes it to near the elevators. So limited capacity within yet people standing on top of each other to get in. 

This is what I am seeing and experiencing onboard. Still making the very best of our Holiday Sailing, but like someone else said never expected so many people just yet. 

 

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Isn't full capacity during the before time over 100%? I recall at full berth it was something like 108%. I think when they say its 100% capacity, they mean barring the rooms set aside for quarantine. In the previous sailings those rooms were set aside plus they didn't fill all the rooms on each deck. IMHO I am sure it's actually 75-90% capacity but feels horrible and crowded because of protocols and restrictions.  The WJ line is out the door because everyone has to scan in and wash hands, on top of being served by crew. So far, all the suites have been booked since the restart but how many had children, grandparents and other friends/family? This would make the suite lounge/CK horribly crowded. It could really be the same number of rooms sold but more people in the rooms. We sailed in a 2br GS that can hold 8pax, it was only 5 of us. I'm sure on a holiday sailing there are actually 8 pax in those rooms. 

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Still considering going on Oasis on Sunday for our Western Caribbean sailing. Can anyone suggest a website where I can check the status of cruise port closures for Cozumel, Costa Maya, and Roatan? I suspect if one closes they will all close. I figured it would be news, but haven't seen anything. Just wondering.

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Chair hogs in full force, I walked the track at 0800hrs and counted 12 free chairs, 12. Every other one has towels and personal belongings. Trying to do all activities on the ship. The crew is tired but very kind, and suite deck not one person but all chairs spoken for. Don't like it there but just wanted to let you know. The captain is a dear, lots of communication. He is the sweetest!!

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My wife and I were on Odyssey Dec 4 through 12.  I was very disappointed with the amount of chair hogs and the staff doing nothing about it.  I like to get to the pool early and get a chair; our last sea day all the front row chairs between the main pool and kid's pool were taken by 6:30.  I sat next to 4 chairs from 6:30 to 10:30 before anyone came to sit down.

@Neesasorry to hear of the Covid problems on your sailing.  Looks like we were lucky and sailed before omicron hit.  Good luck and hang in there!

James

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I have had a different experience than others sailing right now on Adventure. The line to get into Windjammer does get a little busy but it moves quick. Easy to find chairs on the upper deck (not right by the pool, which is fine) that overlook the pool.

My biggest complaint is it seems the ship shuts down around 10:30 pm. The ship is like a ghost town after that with just a few people at each bar. Of course places are still open, but everyone is in their rooms instead. Likely due to the mask mandate of wearing it at all times inside, at least that is my guess. I wish they’d keep the pool bars open later during the indoor mask mandate.  

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5 minutes ago, KyleW22 said:

My biggest complaint is it seems the ship shuts down around 10:30 pm. The ship is like a ghost town after that with just a few people at each bar. Of course places are still open, but everyone is in their rooms instead. Likely due to the mask mandate of wearing it at all times inside. 

I've had a few cruises like that with low capacity.  I was the only person in the pub and the only person clapping for the singer when the song ended.  It felt awkward 🙂 

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4 minutes ago, twangster said:

I was the only person in the pub and the only person clapping for the singer when the song ended.  It felt awkward 🙂 

Not as awkward as finishing a song in a full karaoke bar and having one person clapping. 
Whitney Houston is out of my vocal range.

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10 minutes ago, KyleW22 said:

I have had a different experience than others sailing right now on Adventure. The line to get into Windjammer does get a little busy but it moves quick. Easy to find chairs on the upper deck (not right by the pool, which is fine) that overlook the pool.

My biggest complaint is it seems the ship shuts down around 10:30 pm. The ship is like a ghost town after that with just a few people at each bar. Of course places are still open, but everyone is in their rooms instead. Likely due to the mask mandate of wearing it at all times inside, at least that is my guess. I wish they’d keep the pool bars open later during the indoor mask mandate.  

Like on  HAL cruise

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@James Mills thanks for the insight and kind sentiment. It feels like a lot of first time cruisers for some reason. We were approached by a Ships Officer (lots of security today out and about) thanking us for properly wearing our masks on deck 5 while browsing the shopping area with our new found OBC! We are trying to do everything, from I fly to the jumpy thing. Warning: there are scales before participation!! Holy What??? 

So ordering up a crane to get my butt off in Ft Lauderdale with all these sea days, until Sunday 😉

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