USA Today article on Covid cases on Odyssey

[GatorCruiser]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-cruise-breakthrough-case-sent-100127784.html 

fascinating read on how royal handled it. I was on this cruise and we sensed something was up.  Glad the couple is well and that it didn’t lead to more cases. Royal seems to have a good system in place to handle the inevitability of onboard cases. 

[smokeybandit]

That's a really long article for something that shouldn't even be newsworthy

[barbeyg]

11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

That's a really long article for something that shouldn't even be newsworthy

Not to mention the skewing of the info for the most dramatic effect.

What a puff piece this was. Yes, I would expect to be moved to the ‘Covid ward’ if testing positive, and eat from room service, and disembark separate from everyone else.  I thought RCI handled this well.

And they never considered they had Covid?  Hmmmm.    Something doesn’t pass the smell test here.  I have asthma, which was acting up the week before our cruise, and asthma wasn’t my first thought, Covid was.  

[smokeybandit]

The article read as if they were more than happy to see their names in print

[jeffmw]

I think this is newsworthy from the standpoint that a lot of people who don't want to get on a cruise yet are not doing so because they're wondering, "What happens to me if I test positive on the cruise? Am I going to be stuck on an island or on the boat for weeks?" And I think this story a very intentional attempt for the industry to say, "Look. This isn't that common, but if it unfortunately happens to you, we are doing everything we can to get you home and keep the other passengers safe."

It takes away the mystery behind a very serious concern that's likely preventing a lot of people from cruising right now. 

[Ray]

Proves that even if vaccinated you are not safe!

Also they could have caught virus onshore at one of the ports of call not just from an unvaccinated under 12 year old.

And as has been pointed out previously they had all of those symptoms and covid didnt cross their minds? Think they knew what would happen if it was covid and didnt want to risk ruining their cruise so tried to play dumb! 

And they want a full refund lol 

[smokeybandit]

21 minutes ago, Ray said:

Also they could have caught virus onshore at one of the ports of call not just from an unvaccinated under 12 year old.

 

The majority of on board cases were likely from exposure prior to boarding the ship.

[jeffmw]

29 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The majority of on board cases were likely from exposure prior to boarding the ship.

Correct. If they were exposed at a port of call they wouldn't have symptoms or test positive that quickly. 

[Jill]

Well I know we all don’t like this guy, but 50 cases on Symphony that docked this morning. I also read this from a passenger that disembarked this morning. Embarkation has been moved back by 2 1/2 hours for today’s sailing

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2021/12/articles/disease/covid-19-cases-increase-on-cruise-ships-as-lines-suppress-information/

 

[GatorCruiser]

We as a country need to move past the notion of perseverating about  case counts and shift to what really matters and that’s severe disease  and hospitalizations. Until then every time there’s a case it will make headlines. Covid isn’t going away , we aren’t defeating it. It will become endemic and we will have to live with it as it causes less virulence. The media needs to let it go as does this lawyer. Everyone on board is vaxxed x2 and A lot are boosted. That really should be enough to get back to Normal life. 

[Jill]

5 minutes ago, GatorCruiser said:

We as a country need to move past the notion of perseverating about  case counts and shift to what really matters and that’s severe disease  and hospitalizations. Until then every time there’s a case it will make headlines. Covid isn’t going away , we aren’t defeating it. It will become endemic and we will have to live with it as it causes less virulence. The media needs to let it go as does this lawyer. Everyone on board is vaxxed x2 and A lot are boosted. That really should be enough to get back to Normal life. 

Agree but the CDC doesn’t see it that way and 50 cases is worrisome for Royal. The only way to mitigate is that none of those cases become severe or lead to death. 
 

We had one case on Symphony in late October. 

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, Jill said:

Well I know we all don’t like this guy, but 50 cases on Symphony that docked this morning. I also read this from a passenger that disembarked this morning. Embarkation has been moved back by 2 1/2 hours for today’s sailing

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2021/12/articles/disease/covid-19-cases-increase-on-cruise-ships-as-lines-suppress-information/

 

For a lawyer, he LOVES to run with heresay and conjecture as evident of anything that backs up his view point. 

Im not saying he’s right or wrong, but his “source” is guests talking to random crew members.

[Jill]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

For a lawyer, he LOVES to run with heresay and conjecture as evident of anything that backs up his view point. 

Im not saying he’s right or wrong, but his “source” is guests talking to random crew members.

There are passengers in the Facebook group that are saying 50 cases and that masking increased to current protocols 2 days ago. I know the guy is a jerk but I’m reading passenger accounts too. 

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Jill said:

There are passengers in the Facebook group that are saying 50 cases and that masking increased to current protocols 2 days ago. I know the guy is a jerk but I’m reading passenger accounts too. 

But that’s my point. Passengers repeat what they hear second hand. Historically, I’ve heard a lot of things from passengers that ended up not being accurate.  
 

Im just saying, take it all with a grain of salt. Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s not. I just don’t read passenger reports as gospel.  

[Jill]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

But that’s my point. Passengers repeat what they hear second hand. Historically, I’ve heard a lot of things from passengers that ended up not being accurate.  

Well one was a personal account who was symptomatic and went to medical. 
 

We likely will never know the truth but this sudden increase in masking has a cause somewhere. 

[GatorCruiser]

I know everyone is different and has their own unique calculus when determining risk. Nothing short of an Ebola outbreak would dissuade me from cruising.  Everyone is vaxxed that sails. Risk is much less than anywhere else on land. I hope these articles don’t scare off passengers who might otherwise cruise. 

[Jill]

My point is…..something is up. I’ve read at least 6 passenger posts that got off this morning. Embarkation has been pushed back 2.5 hours and people boarding today got an email at 6:30 this morning giving them the option to cancel. This is more than a few cases. Whether the cases are mild or cause death doesn’t really matter. A case is a case is a case and I’m sure the higher ups at Royal are concerned. Things have been going really great and in a positive direction. The timing stinks. Odyssey apparently also has several cases. 

[Matt]

Jill, sorry if it seemed like I don’t believe what you shared.  Just that the lawyer guy shares heresay as confirmed evidence.  

[D Alt]

52 minutes ago, GatorCruiser said:

We as a country need to move past the notion of perseverating about  case counts and shift to what really matters and that’s severe disease  and hospitalizations. Until then every time there’s a case it will make headlines. Covid isn’t going away , we aren’t defeating it. It will become endemic and we will have to live with it as it causes less virulence. The media needs to let it go as does this lawyer. Everyone on board is vaxxed x2 and A lot are boosted. That really should be enough to get back to Normal life. 

I had to look up the word "perseverating" lol

[Traveler]

56 minutes ago, Jill said:

There are passengers in the Facebook group that are saying 50 cases and that masking increased to current protocols 2 days ago. I know the guy is a jerk but I’m reading passenger accounts too. 

I just disembark from  Symphony today , the exact number is not 50 it more like less than 35 as around 0.7 % got infected. Only two employees (they were moved to Nassau) I guess some people did the wrong math.  

Beside asking to have our masks in the theater we did not experience any protocol change.

[Atricks]

Symphony is still sitting at Miami at 9:15pm, any new updates from there?   (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsukEu2pc4)

Edit: started to move out at 9:30pm.

 

 

[BrianB]

I'm on my 8th cruise since my personal restart in September. All from Bayonne. 

My advice to anyone considering whether to cruise or not to cruise is this: Do your research. Do not make your decision based on a single source, regardless of their claims of 'inside information'. Know that some sources have an agenda which is to exaggerate and to alarm in an effort to generate attention upon themselves. Other sources have been proven reliable in the past and should receive added weight. Information presented as fact may be manipulated to advance a hypothesis or an intended result. So much about Covid is still unknown, and recognize that there are those who either purposely or unwittingly present opinion as fact. It's not easy sifting through all of the opinions, arguments and conclusions...but make the effort. This forum is a great source to get all sides and to strike a balance. Your decision should be an informed, honest and comfortable decision. Avoid the hype and do your due diligence. 

Oh, and should you choose to do so...enjoy your cruise!

[KWong]

Is it bad that one of my first takeaways was that I got annoyed that the author typed "my mom and me"? 

With that said, I felt the article was fair. Maybe a bit biased towards the cruising side, but we got what was probably as neutral a first-hand account as one is going to get. It's probably not going to change how people feel about cruising, but it's also nice to see a story that isn't completely doom and gloom.

[JasonOasis]

20 hours ago, Jill said:

My point is…..something is up. I’ve read at least 6 passenger posts that got off this morning. Embarkation has been pushed back 2.5 hours and people boarding today got an email at 6:30 this morning giving them the option to cancel. This is more than a few cases. Whether the cases are mild or cause death doesn’t really matter. A case is a case is a case and I’m sure the higher ups at Royal are concerned. Things have been going really great and in a positive direction. The timing stinks. Odyssey apparently also has several cases. 

I disagree with a case is a case is a case that isn't true at all, but it is what the news media and many at the CDC, NIH and in government want us all to believe. On Thursday or Friday I was watching NBC Nightly News and one of the doctors on the broadcast went off script (I love when they do) and suggest we need to stop reporting and stop focusing on the total number of cases and start focusing on the total number of serious hospitalization requiring ICU's and incubators.  He suggested this because the total number of cases also includes people who are fully vaccinated and boosted but we know 99% of people who are fully vaccinated and/or boosted avoid serious  disease requiring hospitalization.  His suggestion at why the CDC, NIH and news organizations continue to focus on total case numbers is they wish to continue to use fear to convince people to get vaccinated.  A cases isn't a case, although I'm fully vaccinated I had a break through COVID case back in early July my symptoms where not even mild I never needed to set foot in a hospital.  Cases are spiking across the country, here in Illinois we are setting daily case records but our hospitalization rate and death rate have remained steady.  Even look at South Africa where if we are to believe the reports Omicron has swept across the entire country replacing Delta, yet South Africa just two days ago reported their hospitalization rate has drop an astounding 91% with Omicron verses Delta.  Google it, it is all there but it is something the media in the US and the CDC wishes to hide by continually focusing on the total number of positive cases instead of hospitalization or serious disease.  

I'm not saying we shouldn't take COVID seriously, we should and I'm sure Royal is concerned about the rise in cases around the country.  But a rise in cases does not necessarily mean there is a rise in severe disease resulting in increased hospitalizations, ICU beds and death.  If there were 50 cases on Symphony of the Seas out of those 50 how many of those cases were severe disease and how many simply tested positive with mild to no symptoms at all.  We have vaccines, we have COVID pills, and we have many other tools in the tool shed to fight COVID this isn't 2020 it is the end of 2021 and today a cases isn't a cases isn't a case thanks to many of those tools which are not designed to prevent a individual from contracting COVID the tools are designed to reduce or prevent serious disease.

[JeffB]

1 hour ago, JasonOasis said:

I was watching NBC Nightly News and one of the doctors on the broadcast went off script (I love when they do) and suggest we need to stop reporting and stop focusing on the total number of cases and start focusing on the total number of serious hospitalization requiring ICU's and incubators.  He suggested this because the total number of cases also includes people who are fully vaccinated and boosted but we know 99% of people who are fully vaccinated and/or boosted avoid serious  disease requiring hospitalization.

This has been my position since July although I think the death rate is also useful.... and also stable both in the face of Omicron globally and Delta in the US. I've read in my study of Omicron that Its about 2w early to draw conclusions on the disease impact. Anecdotally, while Omicron is more transmissible (about 5X . than Delta) symptoms are less severe in the unvaccinated and leads to more asymptomatic to mild positives in the vaccinated; those who have been boosted with either of the mRNA vaccines seem to be well protected. Emerging data over the next 2w will either support or refute the anecdotal trends.

 

2 hours ago, JasonOasis said:

If there were 50 cases on Symphony of the Seas out of those 50 how many of those cases were severe disease and how many simply tested positive with mild to no symptoms at all.

I addressed the many false claims appearing in various news sources and social media platforms wrt the Sympnony COVID situation at the link below. This was part of a response to a question asked about the visit restrictions of Caribbean ports of call. I'm currently posting from Celebrity Equinox on a 12n S. Caribbean itinerary.

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/boards/index.php?/topic/27040-things-i-learned-about-celebrity-sailing-out-of-port-everglades-fort-lauderdale-fl/&do=findComment&comment=295320

 

[CruiseGus]

1 hour ago, JasonOasis said:

I disagree with a case is a case is a case that isn't true at all, but it is what the news media and many at the CDC, NIH and in government want us all to believe. On Thursday or Friday I was watching NBC Nightly News and one of the doctors on the broadcast went off script (I love when they do) and suggest we need to stop reporting and stop focusing on the total number of cases and start focusing on the total number of serious hospitalization requiring ICU's and incubators.  He suggested this because the total number of cases also includes people who are fully vaccinated and boosted but we know 99% of people who are fully vaccinated and/or boosted avoid serious  disease requiring hospitalization.  His suggestion at why the CDC, NIH and news organizations continue to focus on total case numbers is they wish to continue to use fear to convince people to get vaccinated.  A cases isn't a case, although I'm fully vaccinated I had a break through COVID case back in early July my symptoms where not even mild I never needed to set foot in a hospital.  Cases are spiking across the country, here in Illinois we are setting daily case records but our hospitalization rate and death rate have remained steady.  Even look at South Africa where if we are to believe the reports Omicron has swept across the entire country replacing Delta, yet South Africa just two days ago reported their hospitalization rate has drop an astounding 91% with Omicron verses Delta.  Google it, it is all there but it is something the media in the US and the CDC wishes to hide by continually focusing on the total number of positive cases instead of hospitalization or serious disease.  

I'm not saying we shouldn't take COVID seriously, we should and I'm sure Royal is concerned about the rise in cases around the country.  But a rise in cases does not necessarily mean there is a rise in severe disease resulting in increased hospitalizations, ICU beds and death.  If there were 50 cases on Symphony of the Seas out of those 50 how many of those cases were severe disease and how many simply tested positive with mild to no symptoms at all.  We have vaccines, we have COVID pills, and we have many other tools in the tool shed to fight COVID this isn't 2020 it is the end of 2021 and today a cases isn't a cases isn't a case thanks to many of those tools which are not designed to prevent a individual from contracting COVID the tools are designed to reduce or prevent serious disease.

@JasonOasiswell said.

Until I read to the end I was also going to comment on "a case is a case is a case", so thanks for putting it so eloquently.

 

 

[smokeybandit]

3 hours ago, JasonOasis said:

one of the doctors on the broadcast went off script (I love when they do) and suggest we need to stop reporting and stop focusing on the total number of cases and start focusing on the total number of serious hospitalization requiring ICU's and incubator

"cases" should have been thrown out the window months ago  and jut focused on keeping people out of the hospital

[LeonCA]

On 12/18/2021 at 2:49 PM, Jill said:

Well I know we all don’t like this guy, but 50 cases on Symphony that docked this morning. I also read this from a passenger that disembarked this morning. Embarkation has been moved back by 2 1/2 hours for today’s sailing

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2021/12/articles/disease/covid-19-cases-increase-on-cruise-ships-as-lines-suppress-information/

 

What?! I was on that cruise and just back home late last night. We received a email from RYI on the last day mentioned about less than 0.7% of guests on this maximum 6k ship. 50 is more than that! 

[Matt]

14 hours ago, LeonCA said:

What?! I was on that cruise and just back home late last night. We received a email from RYI on the last day mentioned about less than 0.7% of guests on this maximum 6k ship. 50 is more than that! 

50 was incorrect

[Jill]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

50 was incorrect

ok 48 cases. I stand corrected. I find it hard to believe though that there were 6,000 onboard. I thought they were at 70% capacity

Nearly 50 people on Royal Caribbean cruise that docked in Miami test positive for coronavirus (msn.com)

[KristiZ]

7 minutes ago, Jill said:

I find it hard to believe though that there were 6,000 onboard. I thought they were at 70% capacity

70% plus crew would be close to 6000

16 hours ago, LeonCA said:

I was on that cruise and just back home late last night. We received a email from RYI on the last day mentioned about less than 0.7% of guests on this maximum 6k ship. 50 is more than that! 

Actually it's pretty accurate. 48/6000 = about 0.8%

[Jill]

22 hours ago, JasonOasis said:

I disagree with a case is a case is a case that isn't true at all, but it is what the news media and many at the CDC, NIH and in government want us all to believe. On Thursday or Friday I was watching NBC Nightly News and one of the doctors on the broadcast went off script (I love when they do) and suggest we need to stop reporting and stop focusing on the total number of cases and start focusing on the total number of serious hospitalization requiring ICU's and incubators.  He suggested this because the total number of cases also includes people who are fully vaccinated and boosted but we know 99% of people who are fully vaccinated and/or boosted avoid serious  disease requiring hospitalization.  His suggestion at why the CDC, NIH and news organizations continue to focus on total case numbers is they wish to continue to use fear to convince people to get vaccinated.  A cases isn't a case, although I'm fully vaccinated I had a break through COVID case back in early July my symptoms where not even mild I never needed to set foot in a hospital.  Cases are spiking across the country, here in Illinois we are setting daily case records but our hospitalization rate and death rate have remained steady.  Even look at South Africa where if we are to believe the reports Omicron has swept across the entire country replacing Delta, yet South Africa just two days ago reported their hospitalization rate has drop an astounding 91% with Omicron verses Delta.  Google it, it is all there but it is something the media in the US and the CDC wishes to hide by continually focusing on the total number of positive cases instead of hospitalization or serious disease.  

I'm not saying we shouldn't take COVID seriously, we should and I'm sure Royal is concerned about the rise in cases around the country.  But a rise in cases does not necessarily mean there is a rise in severe disease resulting in increased hospitalizations, ICU beds and death.  If there were 50 cases on Symphony of the Seas out of those 50 how many of those cases were severe disease and how many simply tested positive with mild to no symptoms at all.  We have vaccines, we have COVID pills, and we have many other tools in the tool shed to fight COVID this isn't 2020 it is the end of 2021 and today a cases isn't a cases isn't a case thanks to many of those tools which are not designed to prevent a individual from contracting COVID the tools are designed to reduce or prevent serious disease.

My worry is in the eyes of the CDC it doesn't matter if it's 50 asymptomatic, mild or severe. I sailed Symphony in October and have Wonder in March and 2 more after that. I'm going. I'm not worried but my concern is if we start seeing this every week and medical onboard is getting overwhelmed, I do fear that the government will try and step in again and try and shut them down. Absolutely we have to live with this but looking around the country with mandates being activated again (thankfully I'm in Florida) I don't trust this government not to try and limit the industry again. 

[GatorCruiser]

I think its reasonable to assume there are going to significant case counts in the country over the next 4-6 weeks. How much of that spills over to cruises remains to be seen. 

Royal is doing about all anyone could do to mitigate cases. Like you, I hope this upcoming period doesnt ruin all the progress thats been made to get back to cruising

 

[Matt]

39 minutes ago, Jill said:

I find it hard to believe though that there were 6,000 onboard. I thought they were at 70% capacit

I believe they are counting crew members to get to that 6k figure

[JasonOasis]

6 hours ago, Jill said:

My worry is in the eyes of the CDC it doesn't matter if it's 50 asymptomatic, mild or severe. I sailed Symphony in October and have Wonder in March and 2 more after that. I'm going. I'm not worried but my concern is if we start seeing this every week and medical onboard is getting overwhelmed, I do fear that the government will try and step in again and try and shut them down. Absolutely we have to live with this but looking around the country with mandates being activated again (thankfully I'm in Florida) I don't trust this government not to try and limit the industry again. 

I understand what you are saying and you raise a good point about medical service onboard being overwhelmed.  However this is where the devil is in the details, the same details the CDC refuses to share.  Delta cases in this country have been going up for months now it is one of the reasons Royal changed their pre-cruise testing policy and shortened down to 2 days.  Even with the Delta surge there have been no reports of onboard medical facilities being overwhelmed thanks to vaccination policies.  If that were to ever happen we all know the CDC would be overjoyed to share that information with the media because it would fit their narrative and could use it to shut down the cruise industry.  

We know the CDC is keeping a close eye and tracking every single COVID case detected on a cruise ship.  Just a few weeks ago the NCL ship arriving in New Orleans with 14 confirmed cases onboard were referred to the CDC.  The CDC wasted no time in making sure the media knew there were 14 positive cases onboard but notice how we've heard nothing since.  I would wager the reason there hasn't been any further information no follow up story about those 14 passengers is because none of those passengers developed severe disease requiring hospitalization, an ICU bed, or a ventilator. This is why I firmly believe it is time to stop reporting total case numbers and using it as a measuring stick for what the virus is doing.  

The reason why people have lost faith in the CDC is because of what you stated in your first sentence about the CDC.  However at this point in the pandemic the CDC and NIH have a lot more data and information than they lead us to believe and I'm sure Royal Caribbean turned over all that relevant information to the CDC about the symptoms or lack of symptoms these 48 people reported to Royal.  I think if the Fauci, Walensky the NIH and the CDC attempted to shut down the cruise industry again the fallout would be severe especially heading into an election year, and it all goes back to the fact that a positive case is no longer a positive case and the CDC needs to shift away from the sensationalism of reporting total number of cases and shift towards realism in reporting severe disease numbers requiring hospitalization, ICU beds and ventilators. 

[leesam82]

As a scientist who works in the field of In Vitro Diagnostics and a person who loves cruising, I am going to give out some facts and my personal opinion which I think is not an extreme view from either side of the issue. 

1) Vaccines were not developed to prevent asymptomatic or mild Covid. The vaccines were developed to prevent sever to life threating covid. So the idea that mild cases or asymptomatic cases are "breakthrough" infections is incorrect. There will always be vaccinated guests on board who my be asymptomatic or come down with mild symptoms. Just because one is vaccinated does not mean you are 100% protected and will never get Covid. A perfect example is the flu vaccine. It is never 100% effective and there are vaccinated people that will still get the flu. I would also state that it is impossible for vaccines to be 100% effective. 

2) Testing is a lagging indicator. Meaning just cause a guest gets tested 2-3 days prior to going on board does not mean that there should be no cases of covid on board. This is due to the fact that there is an incubation period which can last 5 days after. Another reason why its not surprising that guests who have left cruise ship can develop symptoms later. 

3) Overall Royal Caribbean has done a pretty good job in their comeback to sailing. Yes there is room for improvement but overall for me I am happy about the way they have handled themselves in dealing with covid cases on board. For me personally the only time I will get concerned is if there are server cases on board. Even though RCL has taken steps to increase their medical supplies and equipment, they are not equipped to handle to many severe cases. I know some cruisers have opened up about their frustrations with regards to the Covid protocols, but personally for me I rather have the cruise lines be overly cautious than the other way around.

4) I have not read anything specific about omicron, but I am not at a point where I think its the end of the world, but I am also not at the point where I am going to belittle this variant and not worry at all about it. I say this because I know many people have stated that Omicron is more infectious but less deadly. This maybe the case, but you also have to factor in that the world is getting vaccinated. So is Omicron just less lethal due to vaccinations? or Is it truly because its less deadly? 

The plan for myself as I look forward to my next cruise is one not get to wrapped up into the sensationalization of cases on board, but I still plan being as cautious as possible.