RC releases protocols through March 2022

[smokeybandit]

Still no mandate for anyone under 12 to be vaccinated, but those under 12 who are vaccinated can follow all the other rules for vaccinated people. No mention of boosters.

 

But still mask mandates, which is very disappointing. Hopefully that changes after the CSO expires

 

No mention of Adventure Ocean protocols, which have the most strict rules of anywhere on the ship. I really hope those get loosened up after the CSO expires.

 

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/11/10/royal-caribbean-releases-cruise-ship-health-protocols-sailings-through-march-2022

[danv3]

Honestly I prefer them issuing the rules month to month.  Gives them more flexibility to dial back restrictions as things get better.  Though I suppose they can always change these rules.  

Would really like to see testing (and to some extent masks) go away before too much longer.  

[wordell1]

I like that they have published them so that people can make plans. I know that there are unvaccinated folks out there who have cruises booked and are hoping the Vax mandate gets dropped. At least now they know.

 

[MichelleB1234]

11 minutes ago, danv3 said:

Honestly I prefer them issuing the rules month to month.  Gives them more flexibility to dial back restrictions as things get better.  Though I suppose they can always change these rules.  

Would really like to see testing (and to some extent masks) go away before too much longer.  

 I could see masking being dropped but not testing.  Wouldn't Royal want to keep someone who already has covid off ships?

[danv3]

1 hour ago, MichelleB1234 said:

 I could see masking being dropped but not testing.  Wouldn't Royal want to keep someone who already has covid off ships?

Sure, but for how long will they continue testing?  If forever, why not also test for flu and noro?  

I generally think we're testing too much to begin with.  There's really little need to be testing non-symptomatic vaccinated people in a fully-vaccinated setting.  

[twangster]

There is still a lot of spread out there in the wild.  With cruise lines ramping up capacity a large outbreak would be a death blow.  It's taken so much effort to get to the point where turning a profit is getting closer and closer.  They simply can't afford to screw this up.  

My parents retirement home went into lockdown today with 5 new cases.

Despite how badly we want to be done with the virus it isn't done with us regardless how much we want to pretend that isn't the case.     

[Matt]

Regarding masks, masks are NOT part of CSO. It comes from same rule that requires masks on airplanes, buses, trains, etc.  

So CSO or not, I wouldn’t expect a change there. 
 

When mandatory mask wearing on airplanes go away, then you could see movement. 

[twangster]

28 minutes ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

Agreed though on an unrelated note what does twangster mean? Is it T Wang or is it Twang?

I'm not really sure, it just sounded good at the time.  

[LizzyBee23]

31 minutes ago, Matt said:

Regarding masks, masks are NOT part of CSO. It comes from same rule that requires masks on airplanes, buses, trains, etc.  

So CSO or not, I wouldn’t expect a change there. 
 

When mandatory mask wearing on airplanes go away, then you could see movement. 

Huh? How does NCL get away with it?

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Huh? How does NCL get away with it?

The CSO does allow a cruise ship that has 95% or more vaccinated to not require masks. 

Once the CSO expires in January that exemption technically goes away.  Note to self - let's see what Celebrity and NCL do about that in January.  

[Irieman]

All for the Royal posting the protocol through March for planning purposes. Also happy with them. As stated above, we just are not there yet as the pandemic still lingers.  

Now if Royal would just spread out the main dining room tables of two a bit more. Well honestly, that was a request from before the pandemic  

[Vancity Cruiser]

3 hours ago, danv3 said:

Sure, but for how long will they continue testing?  If forever, why not also test for flu and noro?  

I generally think we're testing too much to begin with.  There's really little need to be testing non-symptomatic vaccinated people in a fully-vaccinated setting.  

When I got my PCR test results back from my test on Ovation (to get back into Canada) the results showed negative for Covid, two different kinds of flu, and one other thing that escapes my memory now. Not sure if that is standard but this test covered more than just covid.

[twangster]

23 minutes ago, Vancity Cruiser said:

When I got my PCR test results back from my test on Ovation (to get back into Canada) the results showed negative for Covid, two different kinds of flu, and one other thing that escapes my memory now. Not sure if that is standard but this test covered more than just covid.

My Allure PCR test was COVID only.  

[Vancity Cruiser]

Just looked back at the copy we received to the stateroom and it showed results for 

SARS-CoV-2

Flu A

Flu B

RSV

 

 

[DSheldon]

What is the general feel that RC may reduce or relax rules for UK visitors on board? In the UK we are only allowed one vaccine for 12-15 year olds and with RC this age group needs to be vaccinated with 2 doses. Do you think RC may amend to include 12-15 years olds being classed as fully vaccinated? Or do you feel they will allow this age group on board with a PCR test as well as a single dose? Just puts in jeopardy all from the UK who have booked with RC from any US port. (Due to cruise on Anthem on 10th April 22 from Cape Liberty)

Thank you for any thoughts in advance.

[twangster]

2 hours ago, DSheldon said:

What is the general feel that RC may reduce or relax rules for UK visitors on board? In the UK we are only allowed one vaccine for 12-15 year olds and with RC this age group needs to be vaccinated with 2 doses. Do you think RC may amend to include 12-15 years olds being classed as fully vaccinated? Or do you feel they will allow this age group on board with a PCR test as well as a single dose? Just puts in jeopardy all from the UK who have booked with RC from any US port. (Due to cruise on Anthem on 10th April 22 from Cape Liberty)

Thank you for any thoughts in advance.

The verbiage that addresses people who have only one shot of a two shot regiment is a relatively new addition.  I don't recall that verbiage being used before in the same manner it is today so it would seem they added that verbiage to cover countries such as the UK that don't align with the CDC's vision of who is qualified to be considered fully vaccinated.

I am fairly certain the CDC is behind this decision.  Cruise lines are not actively trying to find ways to limit or hamper guests.  They are more or less forced to follow the government wherever they operate from. 

If that is the case I don't see Royal changing their stance on the issue of one shot in a two shot regime until the CDC lets them.  

 

[LizzyBee23]

8 hours ago, twangster said:

The CSO does allow a cruise ship that has 95% or more vaccinated to not require masks. 

Once the CSO expires in January that exemption technically goes away.  Note to self - let's see what Celebrity and NCL do about that in January.  

I think most ships sailing with vaccine requirements right now are pretty much at 95%, aren't they? That was one of my takeaways from the latest CDC report.

[gatorskin76]

Well there goes cruise #7.  I think I am done at this point.  I'll take my chips off the table at this point and stop thinking of a Royal Caribbean cruise as way for my family to vacation together.  At least they gave me advance notice, I'll give them credit for that.  Once things normalize and they have full ships, perhaps prices will normalize as well, if not, then oh well....

I don't think the cruise lines did themselves any favors in this whole process.  I understand this was a very difficult situation for everyone, but we will see how it goes moving forward.

[Ampurp85]

I am glad they did it like this. It allows people who want to cancel, to do it early. But also give RCG a chance to book more guest if that is the case.

 

[smokeybandit]

10 hours ago, Vancity Cruiser said:

When I got my PCR test results back from my test on Ovation (to get back into Canada) the results showed negative for Covid, two different kinds of flu, and one other thing that escapes my memory now. Not sure if that is standard but this test covered more than just covid.

The 4th is RSV.

This is the test the FDA encourages providers to use, though some providers still use the covid-only test.

[DSheldon]

5 hours ago, twangster said:

The verbiage that addresses people who have only one shot of a two shot regiment is a relatively new addition.  I don't recall that verbiage being used before in the same manner it is today so it would seem they added that verbiage to cover countries such as the UK that don't align with the CDC's vision of who is qualified to be considered fully vaccinated.

I am fairly certain the CDC is behind this decision.  Cruise lines are not actively trying to find ways to limit or hamper guests.  They are more or less forced to follow the government wherever they operate from. 

If that is the case I don't see Royal changing their stance on the issue of one shot in a two shot regime until the CDC lets them.  

 

Thanks for your reply. Its not that 12-15 year olds are one shot of a 2 shot regime - the UK government are only allowing one shot for this age range. Hence why it is so frustrating as here in the UK, this age is fully vaccinated (as one shot of one) and yet the CDC have 2 shots to be classed as fully vaccinated.

From 8th November the US are allowing completely unvaccinated under 18 year olds in from the UK with just a PCR test. I wish either the UK would allow a further vaccine to this age range or the CDC/US government agree to allow UK children on a cruise ship. Lots of unhappy UK families unable to cruise from the US...probably for the foreseeable future too. 

[AspiringCruisePlanner]

41 minutes ago, gatorskin76 said:

Well there goes cruise #7.  I think I am done at this point.  I'll take my chips off the table at this point and stop thinking of a Royal Caribbean cruise as way for my family to vacation together.  At least they gave me advance notice, I'll give them credit for that.  Once things normalize and they have full ships, perhaps prices will normalize as well, if not, then oh well....

I don't think the cruise lines did themselves any favors in this whole process.  I understand this was a very difficult situation for everyone, but we will see how it goes moving forward.

I understand your frustration with the situation.  I think we can all agree that COVID came in the "sweet spot" mix of deadliness and transmissibility.  Just not deadly enough to go into 100% shutdown but transmissible enough that mask mandates, social distancing, and capacity restrictions are necessary.  This "sweet spot" and the public's reaction to it is the reason it's dragged on for so long.

Let's not forget nearly everyone's first news break about COVID-19, the Diamond Princess outbreak.  Cruise lines were the first to get bashed in the public eye and shut down immediately when in reality the majority of transmissions were likely coming from people flying from abroad.  Because of this, cruise lines had to tread very lightly to get back and running.  Everyone's eyes were on these initial "return to sailing" itineraries.  If another outbreak like the Diamond Princess happened again, it would be "come back next year" for the cruise lines. 

Since returning to sailing, cruise lines have shown excellence in implementing mandates and protocols that have mitigated the transmission of COVID aboard their ships.  The CDC reported only 452 positive cases aboard all cruises between Jun 26 and Aug 26 which sailed approximately 600k passengers.  I think it is safe to say that the protocols in place are working.

The challenges that the cruise lines have to navigate through after the conditional sail order expires are human behaviors.  I found this in the CDC's CSO Extension on Oct 25:

Quote

For example, a passenger on a cruise ship (Cruise Ship F), who was fully vaccinated and had tested negative for COVID-19 three days before boarding, boarded the ship while symptomatic for COVID-19, but denied having symptoms.  The passenger died three days after boarding for reasons related to COVID-19.

The infected person probably didn't want their vacation cut short by potentially testing positive for COVID, but that decision ultimately led to their life being cut short.  "Normal" human behavior is the reason why this virus has been dragging on so long and the cruise lines have to jump through quite a few hoops to try to stay in business because of it.

It would be great not having to deal with vaccine and testing mandates by the cruise lines, but without them outbreaks and cases would be much too prevalent aboard cruise ships.

 

[WAAAYTOOO]

4 hours ago, gatorskin76 said:

Well there goes cruise #7.  I think I am done at this point.  I'll take my chips off the table at this point and stop thinking of a Royal Caribbean cruise as way for my family to vacation together.  At least they gave me advance notice, I'll give them credit for that.  Once things normalize and they have full ships, perhaps prices will normalize as well, if not, then oh well....

I don't think the cruise lines did themselves any favors in this whole process.  I understand this was a very difficult situation for everyone, but we will see how it goes moving forward.

I'm right there with ya'.  Forgive my suspicion, but you have to ask the question, "Why is Royal Caribbean doing this" ?  Let's face it, they are not doing it for our benefit....there is some reason why they are pushing this information out now.  The reason that they have been putting protocols out month-by-month is to minimize cancellations.  By making this pronouncement so far in advance, they are inviting an avalanche of cancellations - which is what they will be getting for us. Why ?

My concern is this:  if we fail to cancel all of our cruises now (at least, those through 3-31-22), they may withdraw the ability to get a cash refund (based on vaccine protocols) down the road.  Their logical justification will be "Well, we told you back in November what the protocols would be...you had the chance to cancel and you didn't.  Now we are only going to offer you FCC's for your cancellations".  Since an FCC is completely useless to us, I will avoid that at all costs.

So it looks like we will be cancelling 8 more cruises (4 of them are Star Class).  It's heartbreaking, but I don't really see any alternative at this point.  I cannot afford to lose the opportunity to get my money back now.  So, like @gatorskin76, we will be taking our chips off the table and leaving the game.  We have some 2022-2023 cruises booked but those are still out of reach.  

BTW, we have still not received a single email regarding the protocols through March.  As I said above, we have 8 booked so I am a bit perplexed why we haven't been notified for ANY of them.  Thank goodness I heard of this through the blogs or I would have no idea at all.

[LizzyBee23]

I think the date being so far out may be to signify two things: 1.) the mandates are here to stay, and 2.) a shot across the bow about a future date for pediatric vaccine requirements.

[0_0]

21 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

I think the date being so far out may be to signify two things: 1.) the mandates are here to stay, and 2.) a shot across the bow about a future date for pediatric vaccine requirements.

I'm really hoping they don't create any new pediatric vaccine requirements. My kids pediatrician has already recommended against vaccinating my kids 7, 8yo so mine won't be unless his recommendation changes. I'm going to assume he's not the only one recommending against kids in that age range being vaccinated.

[Vancity Cruiser]

1 hour ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Forgive my suspicion, but you have to ask the question, "Why is Royal Caribbean doing this" ?  Let's face it, they are not doing it for our benefit....there is some reason why they are pushing this information out now.  The reason that they have been putting protocols out month-by-month is to minimize cancellations.  By making this pronouncement so far in advance, they are inviting an avalanche of cancellations - which is what they will be getting for us. Why ?

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that by announcing these protocols at this time, it gives them time to resell cabins cancelled by those unwilling or unable to cruise under these protocols. 

Seems like a bold move a new CEO (and former CFO) might make............

[smokeybandit]

That decision may well have been based on how many cabins were being canceled after each month's new protocol announcements. 

[fireclan]

I received the email "Your Healthy Sailing Update - North America Protocols" last night. I read it, realized these are the same protocols that cruisers report complying with in recent months, and dumped it in the trash as nothing new. But today, reading this site, I realize that these protocols are in effect through March, 2022 (which covers 2 of the cruises I have booked) which is definitely NEW information. Don't you think that the protocols being extended that far out would be an important bit of information for Royal to include in this latest notification? I reviewed my email several times, and there is no mention of that date. 

 

So I guess I'll hold on to my January stateroom for now, pretending like I'm sailing (which I'm not) and using CWC to cancel at the last minute.

[WAAAYTOOO]

27 minutes ago, fireclan said:

So I guess I'll hold on to my January stateroom for now, pretending like I'm sailing (which I'm not) and using CWC to cancel at the last minute.

This has been our strategy since the restart b/c they have offered a cash refund based on monthly [un]changing protocols (14 cancellations so far).  If I felt confident that we would be able to continue to receive cash refunds going forward I would wait, too….just on the extremely remote chance that the vax requirements might change in our favor….but I have no confidence that the offer of cash refunds will continue indefinitely.  That’s why I am uncomfortable with this change in policy.

@Vancity Cruiser’s suggestion that they may be looking for the opportunity to resell the cancelled staterooms makes sense and that may be a good explanation.  I just don’t want to get caught in a situation where I am only offered FCCs vs cash.

In the short run this change in policy is actually costing them “floating” money b/c in the past I have paid our cruise balance in full before turning around and cancelling after the protocols are announced.  This has given Royal considerable $$$ from me to use while they sit on it and eventually refund it back to me.  This change in policy is going to allow me to cancel without having to pay the cruise balance (unless there has already been a change in refund policy that they have not yet disclosed).  I guess we’ll find out soon enough.  

[WAAAYTOOO]

1 hour ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

 why are you holding back? 

Sincerely- thank you for asking.

To avoid unwelcome vaccine controversy, I’ll just say that we are philosophically and medically opposed to the COVID injections.  Under no circumstances would we consider getting any of them.

[cruisellama]

4 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

I'm right there with ya'.  Forgive my suspicion, but you have to ask the question, "Why is Royal Caribbean doing this" ?  Let's face it, they are not doing it for our benefit....there is some reason why they are pushing this information out now.  The reason that they have been putting protocols out month-by-month is to minimize cancellations.  By making this pronouncement so far in advance, they are inviting an avalanche of cancellations - which is what they will be getting for us. Why ?

My concern is this:  if we fail to cancel all of our cruises now (at least, those through 3-31-22), they may withdraw the ability to get a cash refund (based on vaccine protocols) down the road.  Their logical justification will be "Well, we told you back in November what the protocols would be...you had the chance to cancel and you didn't.  Now we are only going to offer you FCC's for your cancellations".  Since an FCC is completely useless to us, I will avoid that at all costs.

So it looks like we will be cancelling 8 more cruises (4 of them are Star Class).  It's heartbreaking, but I don't really see any alternative at this point.  I cannot afford to lose the opportunity to get my money back now.  So, like @gatorskin76, we will be taking our chips off the table and leaving the game.  We have some 2022-2023 cruises booked but those are still out of reach.  

BTW, we have still not received a single email regarding the protocols through March.  As I said above, we have 8 booked so I am a bit perplexed why we haven't been notified for ANY of them.  Thank goodness I heard of this through the blogs or I would have no idea at all.

We're still in "cooperate and graduate" world.   [ on another note - I thought the airline mask requirements were to be revisited in Jan '22 (they were supposed to expire in Sept).]

[AspiringCruisePlanner]

48 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

To avoid unwelcome vaccine controversy, I’ll just say that we are philosophically and medically opposed to the COVID injections.  Under no circumstances would we consider getting any of them.

Although we're not in the same boat *chuckles* I'm especially reminded on Veteran's Day we must be thankful that we live in a country that gives us the freedom of choice due to the sacrifices of our veterans.

[LizzyBee23]

7 hours ago, 0_0 said:

I'm really hoping they don't create any new pediatric vaccine requirements. My kids pediatrician has already recommended against vaccinating my kids 7, 8yo so mine won't be unless his recommendation changes. I'm going to assume he's not the only one recommending against kids in that age range being vaccinated.

We haven't spoken to our pediatrician yet, but don't plan for our kids to be early adopters. Cancelled one recent cruise already over the fact that kids are only half welcome onboard, and our next (now first) one as a family is at the end of May. Thing 1 will have just turned 5 for that one, so we're definitely staying tuned.

[twangster]

I don't think Royal is looking to implement a vax rule change that would include 5 and over unless they are required to do so by a government or agency such as the CDC.  

Royal has developed protocols that work.  That's been proven.  They've had hundreds of thousands of guests cruise with very few cases even when Delta was surging on land.  What they have implemented has been hugely successful.   Simply put there is no need to require that 5 year old and over be vaccinated in order to board a Royal cruise ship.  

Naturally there will be some families that choose to vaccinate 5 and above and there will be families that choose not to.  That decision isn't up for discussion here.  When a family does choose to vaccinate their 5 and above that family will be allowed to follow the vaccinated policies on board.  Those families that choose not to vaccinate 5 and above can continue to sail as they have for several months now and those families will follow the same protocols they have for cruises on Royal in recent months.  

[Ampurp85]

I would disagree about children not being welcomed as RCG has tailored their protocols to allow children to sail. Other lines have adopted a "hard no on unvax" policy. I didn't see any of the children being mistreated at all during my cruise. I mean it does suck that certain things are off-limits but we all have to make sacrifices to cruise. I will say that as a person who hates mask, I didn't feel it like I thought I would. The testing wasn't bad and given how close the tables were in all restaurants, how people behaved at shows, and how people crammed in elevators, social distancing wasn't really a thing. So I am thankful for the protocols, because they are working.

[Matt]

Fain's comments on being asked today about kids vaccine mandate: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/11/12/will-royal-caribbean-require-kids-be-vaccinated-order-go-cruise-ship

[Jill]

4 hours ago, twangster said:

I don't think Royal is looking to implement a vax rule change that would include 5 and over unless they are required to do so by a government or agency such as the CDC.  

Royal has developed protocols that work.  That's been proven.  They've had hundreds of thousands of guests cruise with very few cases even when Delta was surging on land.  What they have implemented has been hugely successful.   Simply put there is no need to require that 5 year old and over be vaccinated in order to board a Royal cruise ship.  

Naturally there will be some families that choose to vaccinate 5 and above and there will be families that choose not to.  That decision isn't up for discussion here.  When a family does choose to vaccinate their 5 and above that family will be allowed to follow the vaccinated policies on board.  Those families that choose not to vaccinate 5 and above can continue to sail as they have for several months now and those families will follow the same protocols they have for cruises on Royal in recent months.  

I totally agree with this and also believe RC will not require vaccines for under 12. They are really the only alternative to Disney. Disney cruises typically are 30-50% more expensive than RC. 
 

The protocols in place for under 12 are working. If you take the current under 12’s onboard and assume say 30% will end up vaccinated, they’re still reducing the unvaccinated kid population which will decrease the chances even more of kids testing positive on day 5. 
 

My money is on no vaccine mandate for under 12’s. 

[LizzyBee23]

23 hours ago, Matt said:

Fain's comments on being asked today about kids vaccine mandate: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/11/12/will-royal-caribbean-require-kids-be-vaccinated-order-go-cruise-ship

Yeah... That reads to me like vaccines will be required for young ones in a few months. Not great.

Interested to see what this does for passengers from other countries. The EMA isn't likely to approve a pediatric vaccine.

[smokeybandit]

""Now that they've authorized vaccines down to the five, we're looking at how that's going to affect us.""

 

Translation, "we're concerned if we require vaccinations for kids that we'll see more cancelations"

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

""Now that they've authorized vaccines down to the five, we're looking at how that's going to affect us.""

 

Translation, "we're concerned if we require vaccinations for kids that we'll see more cancelations"

Definitely.  What travel business wouldn't want to carefully consider the business impact of such a move.  

Truth is they probably don't know right now.

We are heading into the winter.  No one knows if the pandemic will continue to decline or if some new variant will equal Delta's impact.  Ultimately that is what will determine how all protocols including vaccination requirements will evolve.