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FDA approves Pfizer’s vaccine for ages 5 to 11. Will Royal makes changes?


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20 minutes ago, Oliver said:

The Pfizer Vaccine is now approved for all ages from 5 to 11. Will Royal Caribbean require ages 5 and up now require to be vaccinated soon? I certainly hope so. 

I don't see it happening before the beginning of the year, at the earliest to allow time for the kids to get vaccinated AND maximize on the holiday sailings with families. After that, who knows what will happen. 

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1.4 million dollar loss reported today, no way they implement this in time for the Holidays.. I believe this loss is larger then they thought they would sustain and this is the main reason the CWC was extended as well as the other extensions. 

That being as it may I am sailing on Thanksgiving and have no worries about any unvaccinated kiddos. I personally am looking forward to the anticipated joy this week will bring. I respect everyone's choice to do what they will for their family and I for one will not be afraid or treat them any differently, I sure didn't like it when my child was treated like a leper in June on our Adventure sailing while wearing her band of the unvaxed. Family Holiday here we come. 

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4 minutes ago, Oliver said:

I don’t see how one thing has to do with another. Most people on board are already over the age of 12 and they haven’t removed mask mandates yet for them. 

Adding new restrictions to protocols that have already seen essentially zero cases found on board seems overkill without removing others.

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4 minutes ago, KWofPerth said:

If literally everyone onboard is vaccinated AND tests negative prior to boarding, can the masks rule not be relaxed?

It would make sense to me. However remember that the vaccine still isn’t approved for kids until 5. And there is still the risk of asymptomatic people. But eventually the risk is going to be so low that the rules will be relaxed. 

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I am going to make a prediction that has no basis in fact.   I predict the February protocols will require children to be vaccinated and that the mask requirements/recommendations will be relaxed inside, unless there is a new increase in cases.  If there is, I would expect the mask rules to remain the same, they are not going to change something that is working.  And like it or not, agree with it or not, it is working.  They would be kind of silly to say "this is working, but let's change it and see if people get sick or die."

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So here's a question to everyone. What are your feelings going to be when they drop the vaccination requirements? Because let's be real no cruise line will always require vaccination for a flu type virus. I personally could care less if someone is vaccinated because it is their choice and must do what is best in their eyes.

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16 hours ago, Oliver said:

It would make sense to me. However remember that the vaccine still isn’t approved for kids until 5. And there is still the risk of asymptomatic people. But eventually the risk is going to be so low that the rules will be relaxed. 

 

15 hours ago, KWofPerth said:

Oops, I forgot about the under-5s

How many children under the age of 5 on a typical cruise? Less that 5% of total passenger count I would bet; so that would be enough for a mask free cruise under current regulations; let alone potentially less draconian measures post January 15, 22

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20 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Adding new restrictions to protocols that have already seen essentially zero cases found on board seems overkill without removing others.

The CDC document released justifying their extension of the Conditional Sail Order reported many cases of COVID-19 infection of both crew and passengers on cruises with > 96% vaccination rates of passengers and 100% vaccination rate for the crews.  The CDC did not name the cruise lines by name but what is apparent is the cruise lines were obligated to reported the infection data to the CDC but did release the same information to the general public.  I understand the business reasons to keep the infection data close to the vest.  It also reveals cruising is not as risk free as it seems.  

I would like the cruise lines to be more forthcoming with infection rate information so we all can decide for ourselves what the risks are and we are willing to take.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/CDC-CSO-Extension-10-25-21-p.pdf

 

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18 minutes ago, rcrabb said:

The CDC document released justifying their extension of the Conditional Sail Order reported many cases of COVID-19 infection of both crew and passengers on cruises with > 96% vaccination rates of passengers and 100% vaccination rate for the crews.  The CDC did not name the cruise lines by name but what is apparent is the cruise lines were obligated to reported the infection data to the CDC but did release the same information to the general public.  I understand the business reasons to keep the infection data close to the vest.  It also reveals cruising is not as risk free as it seems.  

I would like the cruise lines to be more forthcoming with infection rate information so we all can decide for ourselves what the risks are and we are willing to take.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/CDC-CSO-Extension-10-25-21-p.pdf

 

If you choose to sail during a pandemic, you have to be able to assume some level of risk because the cruise lines cannot guarantee that you will not get Covid while on the ship just like they could never guarantee that you wouldnt get sick in the past from any number of illnesses. Even when Covid becomes endemic, it will join a list of respiratory viruses that one can catch anywhere including a cruise ship.  

I agree that cruise lines should be as transparent as possible but the ultimate responsibility falls on the consumer and its up to the customer how much risk they are willing to assume

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19 hours ago, rcrabb said:

The CDC document released justifying their extension of the Conditional Sail Order reported many cases of COVID-19 infection of both crew and passengers on cruises with > 96% vaccination rates of passengers and 100% vaccination rate for the crews.  The CDC did not name the cruise lines by name but what is apparent is the cruise lines were obligated to reported the infection data to the CDC but did release the same information to the general public.  I understand the business reasons to keep the infection data close to the vest.  It also reveals cruising is not as risk free as it seems.  

I would like the cruise lines to be more forthcoming with infection rate information so we all can decide for ourselves what the risks are and we are willing to take.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/CDC-CSO-Extension-10-25-21-p.pdf

 

This is an interesting read, thank you for sharing it. Especially the recounting of situations where people boarded ships despite knowing they were symptomatic and later causing a number of breakthrough infections. Unfortunately, some people are just not going to do the right thing, so I understand why both the cruise lines and the CDC want certain protocols in place. 

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7 hours ago, Canadian-Cruiser said:

Unless one wants to cruise, fly or take a train in Canada. As of OCT 30 this is now required for all domestic travel. Ultimately if one wants to travel, this is how it will be so don't limit oneself based on ones own choices.

Look, these posts aren’t in the spirit of the rule to not discuss this topic.

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2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Moderna's 6-11 yr old trial is now delayed into next year due to myocarditis concerns. Pfizer also had myocarditis concerns but they pushed forward anyway.

Cmon dude, that's a rather sensationalist take on Pfizer

"Most cases after the vaccine have occurred in younger males and required hospitalization, federal health officials say, though the data suggests cases remain "rare" and typically subside on their own within a day."

In all of the scenarios that the FDA modeled, the agency estimated that Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine would more frequently prevent COVID-related cases in children than cause "excess myocarditis cases." 

Most importantly:

"After reducing the size of its dose, Pfizer said its trials had turned up mostly mild side effects, no new safety concerns, and no cases of myocarditis or pericarditis."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-kids-myocarditis-risk/

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I watched the entire FDA discussuin that day and there was more than one panelist concerned about myocarditis, especially in scenario 3.

 

The panel approved it because they all knew there were scenarios for high risk kids where the vaccine was needed. But they weren't allowed to vote conditionally, it was all or nothing. Probably half the panel had a concern that there wasn't enough data yet for various aspects.

 

 

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I fully expect kids will be required to be vaccinated after a delay to allow people to get their shots. Richard Fain has always put out that vaccines are the way to get back to "normal cruising" so I don't expect him to back down from that.

My son has his appointments scheduled already, and my daughter was in the Pfizer trial, so we just need to have her unblinding appointment. We will be all set for our upcoming cruise in February.

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23 minutes ago, GregD said:

I fully expect kids will be required to be vaccinated after a delay to allow people to get their shots. Richard Fain has always put out that vaccines are the way to get back to "normal cruising" so I don't expect him to back down from that.

My son has his appointments scheduled already, and my daughter was in the Pfizer trial, so we just need to have her unblinding appointment. We will be all set for our upcoming cruise in February.

Good luck with that business strategy. We will see how this rollout with children's vaccines go and how many parents have their children vaccinated. If it is a low percentage, dont expect the cruise lines to require vaccinations for those under 12. To do so, would eliminate family market and MANY cancellations will follow. I expect Fain to look at the bottom line. What would benefit Royal more is accepting natural acquired immunity in place of vaccinations

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On 11/1/2021 at 5:50 PM, Matt said:

Cmon dude, that's a rather sensationalist take on Pfizer

"Most cases after the vaccine have occurred in younger males and required hospitalization, federal health officials say, though the data suggests cases remain "rare" and typically subside on their own within a day."

In all of the scenarios that the FDA modeled, the agency estimated that Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine would more frequently prevent COVID-related cases in children than cause "excess myocarditis cases." 

Most importantly:

"After reducing the size of its dose, Pfizer said its trials had turned up mostly mild side effects, no new safety concerns, and no cases of myocarditis or pericarditis."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-kids-myocarditis-risk/

Also important, and oft-"overlooked," point: COVID-19 causes myocarditis. I didn't dig to find the studies, but there are studies out there that show the risk of myocarditis from COVID-19 is higher than the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine.

Some additional source info: Study: Myocarditis risk 37 times higher for children with COVID-19 than uninfected peers | American Academy of Pediatrics (aappublications.org)

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On 11/1/2021 at 4:50 PM, Matt said:

Cmon dude, that's a rather sensationalist take on Pfizer

"Most cases after the vaccine have occurred in younger males and required hospitalization, federal health officials say, though the data suggests cases remain "rare" and typically subside on their own within a day."

In all of the scenarios that the FDA modeled, the agency estimated that Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine would more frequently prevent COVID-related cases in children than cause "excess myocarditis cases." 

Most importantly:

"After reducing the size of its dose, Pfizer said its trials had turned up mostly mild side effects, no new safety concerns, and no cases of myocarditis or pericarditis."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-kids-myocarditis-risk/

Thank you!

 

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