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26 crew members, only 1 passenger, out of 4400 total people on board, no major symptoms.

 

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-health-travel-caribbean-4dd34f14b6a6365f48b3375c57ba4fb4?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

 

Seems yet another thing that wouldn't get reported if it wasn't on a cruise ship

 

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I wonder how long they spent on an executive conference call determining to use 99.98%?

Executive #1: "Let's say 99% of the crew are vaccinated"

Executive #2 "That sounds terrible, we said 100% of crew would be vaccinated"

Executive #3: "Then say 99.99%"

Executive #4: "We can't say 99.99%, that's 10% of a person who isn't, or something like that"

Executive #5: "Then use 99.95%"

Senior Executive: "We'll use use 99.98%.  That will confuse everyone in the media so they won't know what to report"    

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6 hours ago, PG Cruiser said:

(1,399 ➗1,400) x 100% = 99.92%

Looks like the intern made a typo

The mistake could have been in the number of crew on board. If one crew member out of 5,000 is unvaccinated this represents exactly 99.98% vaccinated. 
Also if one crew member out of 2,500 is unvaccinated this could also be 99.98% vaccinated crew if the unvaccinated crew member is a double amputee and counted as .5 person. 
Following this scenario further one will see that if only 1,250 crew are on board the unvaccinated crew member would be a basket case to have 99.98% vaccinated crew. 

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I read that one or more of the infected were contractors on board during the sailing (which is a typical scenario)…so technically even though they are considered crew members, they are outsiders hired to perform specialized system maintenance during the cruise. Just wondering if that arrangement threw the proverbial wrench into the operation.

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2 hours ago, BrianB said:

I read that one or more of the infected were contractors on board during the sailing (which is a typical scenario)…so technically even though they are considered crew members, they are outsiders hired to perform specialized system maintenance during the cruise. Just wondering if that arrangement threw the proverbial wrench into the operation.

This makes much more sense than traditional crew members who aren't allowed to leave the ship somehow getting infected.

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9 hours ago, BrianB said:

I read that one or more of the infected were contractors on board during the sailing (which is a typical scenario)…so technically even though they are considered crew members, they are outsiders hired to perform specialized system maintenance during the cruise. Just wondering if that arrangement threw the proverbial wrench into the operation.

Guessing Carnival should start checking the Vax status of those contractor before allowing them on board

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2 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

If this hadn't happened on a cruise ship it would have never made the news.

 

Imagine if the bill in the House to require vaccines and testing on all airlines landing in or departing from the USA gets any traction the uproar we will hear!!  (Google HR 4980)

They already threatened that once and the airline power brokers said "oh hell no" and it was quickly dropped.

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1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

They already threatened that once and the airline power brokers said "oh hell no" and it was quickly dropped.

a lot has changed since then, there are now major metro areas requiring vaccine proof for bars, restaurants, museums etc. We have employer mandates, we have a federal vaccine mandate for armed forces.  I never would have thought we would see that either.  It is rapidly becoming a vaccinated world.

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10 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

a lot has changed since then, there are now major metro areas requiring vaccine proof for bars, restaurants, museums etc. We have employer mandates, we have a federal vaccine mandate for armed forces.  I never would have thought we would see that either.  It is rapidly becoming a vaccinated world.

But none of those equate to the $200 billion dollar airline industry though. An industry that's slowly worked its way back to 75/80% of what it was before covid. They aren't going to want anything to happen to threaten the bottom line at this point, right when things are getting good agin

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Stop testing people with no symptoms. Just like they stopped testing people for H1N1 in 2009-2010 especially tests with high cycle rates and no lab cultures that will pick up dead virus particles. 

Vaccinated/Unvaccinated. there is ZERO way to get rid of Covid cases on a cruise ship or anywhere else in this world. As long as we keep seeing case counts decoupled from Deaths then we should get back to normal life and realize case counts mean little. If you are vaccinated there is a very low chance that IF you get Covid that it will turn into anything more than the common cold or flu. AND NO I am not saying Covid is like the flu. Can you imagine if a few years ago when they estimated 80k people died of the flu if we heard constantly about daily case rates? 

ZERO COVID is a fools errands. Covid is a seasonal virus. The Delta variant will wane soon just like it did in the UK and India. Get vaccinated. Eventually, I hope, people will regain their sanity and look at things in proper perspective.

I get Cruise Lines are in the spotlight and have to enforce masking just for the optics but cruise lines cannot stop the virus no matter what they have their guests do.  

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1 hour ago, UNCFanatik said:

Stop testing people with no symptoms. Just like they stopped testing people for H1N1 in 2009-2010 especially tests with high cycle rates and no lab cultures that will pick up dead virus particles. 

Vaccinated/Unvaccinated. there is ZERO way to get rid of Covid cases on a cruise ship or anywhere else in this world. As long as we keep seeing case counts decoupled from Deaths then we should get back to normal life and realize case counts mean little. If you are vaccinated there is a very low chance that IF you get Covid that it will turn into anything more than the common cold or flu. AND NO I am not saying Covid is like the flu. Can you imagine if a few years ago when they estimated 80k people died of the flu if we heard constantly about daily case rates? 

ZERO COVID is a fools errands. Covid is a seasonal virus. The Delta variant will wane soon just like it did in the UK and India. Get vaccinated. Eventually, I hope, people will regain their sanity and look at things in proper perspective.

I get Cruise Lines are in the spotlight and have to enforce masking just for the optics but cruise lines cannot stop the virus no matter what they have their guests do.  

I agree that "Zero covid" is impossible,  But the more venues, places, business functions that require 100% vaccination the sooner we will get back to not worrying about it.  With 100% vaccination we see very few serious illness and almost NO death.

I fully support the government employees and armed forces mandate to vaccinate.  I just pulled from the archives the vaccine records of my children, they were required to attend public school and for that matter still are, small pox, TB, polio, measles, mumps and numerous others.

I also support a requirement of the vaccine to fly anytime anywhere,  that does not impose one bit upon your freedom, you can WALK anywhere you want.  But it does protect the rest of society

 

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10 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

I get Cruise Lines are in the spotlight and have to enforce masking just for the optics but cruise lines cannot stop the virus no matter what they have their guests do.

I agree they can't stop the virus, but they can mitigate the spread and risks associated with it onboard their ships.

Cruise lines cannot just throw their hands up and let cases pile up onboard. Just like how car manufacturers didn't just say "cant stop car crashes, so we don't need to bother trying to make cars safer", cruise lines cannot stop doing what they need to ensure their business can continue to operate while assuring the public (and government regulators) ships can sail safely.

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59 minutes ago, Matt said:

I agree they can't stop the virus, but they can mitigate the spread and risks associated with it onboard their ships.

Cruise lines cannot just throw their hands up and let cases pile up onboard. Just like how car manufacturers didn't just say "cant stop car crashes, so we don't need to bother trying to make cars safer", cruise lines cannot stop doing what they need to ensure their business can continue to operate while assuring the public (and government regulators) ships can sail safely.

Oh I fully agree and never would I suggest cruise lines stop all mitigation methods but I would implore that they evaluate what is and isn’t effective vs this virus especially among the vaccinated passengers. 

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37 minutes ago, Danielle OG said:

For those saying that the only reason we hear about this is because it happened on a cruise, I disagree. I'm constantly reading about flights landing with positive covid cases, full ICU's and high case counts. None of which have to do with cruise lines at all. 

Really? Are you looking for those articles or are they massive banner headlines like every cruise related one ?

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24 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

Really? Are you looking for those articles or are they massive banner headlines like every cruise related one ?

I check Reddit news everyday. Here is an example of what the front page looks like. Obviously there are more articles if you scroll down. Each one can be clicked on to read the full article. I see a variety of Covid-related news there. As for covid cases on flights, I get that information from Canadian news. 

IMG_1660.jpg

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

I agree they can't stop the virus, but they can mitigate the spread and risks associated with it onboard their ships.

Cruise lines cannot just throw their hands up and let cases pile up onboard. Just like how car manufacturers didn't just say "cant stop car crashes, so we don't need to bother trying to make cars safer", cruise lines cannot stop doing what they need to ensure their business can continue to operate while assuring the public (and government regulators) ships can sail safely.

Not an appropriate metaphor...  No one is talking about parking every vehicle in the country over the risk associated with driving. And we as citizens of a democracy have a direct responsibility for shaping public policy... If politicians are framing the public health choices in a way that isn't palatable to most of us given our own assessment of the risk, it's our job to let them know that, irrespective of the obvious truth that RCL has to play by the rules.

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4 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Not an appropriate metaphor...  No one is talking about parking every vehicle in the country over the risk associated with driving. And we as citizens of a democracy have a direct responsibility for shaping public policy... If politicians are framing the public health choices in a way that isn't palatable to most of us given our own assessment of the risk, it's our job to let them know that, irrespective of the obvious truth that RCL has to play by the rules.

But the problem here is we don't have control over the actions of other people which affect our own risk.  People are acting like this is an individual choice that does not affect anyone but themselves, and that simply is a false statement.  We are facing a conflict of rights situation, and in the past the solution was a fairly straightforward examination of what would be best for the public in general.  That is why it is "We, the people" not "I, the individual."    However, that is clearly not the type of analysis going on right now.  To be honest, I cannot figure out what, if any, type of rational, logical analysis of our current situation is being done.  Rationality, logic and reason have been replaced with fear, paranoia and emotions.  Social benefit has to move over for rugged individualism.  Both have their place, but it's pretty much impossible to satisfy both at the same time.  I am confident that we will work ourselves out of this mess and calm down at some point.  I just don't really know how or when.

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When we get in a car, we don’t have control over others? Should we all stop driving cause others speed and are reckless and kill others even though we have done everything in our control to stay safe when driving? 
 

by the same token, I don’t have control over drunk drivers when I drive. Should we ban alcohol? 
 

should we suspend school during flu season? 
 

We could go on and on about things in our society that pose a risk to us that are beyond our control. We don’t live in a zero risk society and we shouldn’t set policy on a single issue esp with a virus with an over 99% survival rate. 
 

Everyone who is 12 and older has access to the vaccine now. People can do their own risk mitigation and that comes to cruising as well.

I’m vaccinated and have cruises planned for Nov and Dec. I understand the risk of cruising during these times. I don’t agree with every step Royal has taken or policies they have but I think they have done a great job with their protocols when a case of Covid is identified. I just hope some passengers don’t become victims of false positives. I think Carnival has fallen behind Royal in regards to his cases have been handled. People tend to forget there are other contagious illnesses that people board cruise ships with now and in the past. Some more harmful to children than Covid. 
 

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14 hours ago, MrMarc said:

But the problem here is we don't have control over the actions of other people which affect our own risk.  People are acting like this is an individual choice that does not affect anyone but themselves, and that simply is a false statement.  We are facing a conflict of rights situation, and in the past the solution was a fairly straightforward examination of what would be best for the public in general.  That is why it is "We, the people" not "I, the individual."    However, that is clearly not the type of analysis going on right now.  To be honest, I cannot figure out what, if any, type of rational, logical analysis of our current situation is being done.  Rationality, logic and reason have been replaced with fear, paranoia and emotions.  Social benefit has to move over for rugged individualism.  Both have their place, but it's pretty much impossible to satisfy both at the same time.  I am confident that we will work ourselves out of this mess and calm down at some point.  I just don't really know how or when.

You have absolute control, if you arent comfortable out in the environment ... stay in your house.

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20 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

No one is talking about parking every vehicle in the country over the risk associated with driving.

That's not what I suggested. I said car manufacturers cant build vehicles that simply drive and "good luck" if they get into an accident. They added air bags, seat belts, crumple zones, and a host of other safety features.

Why? Because federal regulators (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) demanded it, and the public did too. They wanted safer cars that would protect people inside if there was an accident. People did not want to be in a "death trap" no more than being on a "floating petri dish".

By the same token, federal regulators (CDC) want cruise ships to be safer for anyone onboard. And there is a lot of demand from the public to have health protocols onboard.

We're well past the notion of shutting down the cruise industry, so now cruise ships are doing what's necessary to add health protocols onboard to protect their business.

This isn't about the shutdown last year, this is about what cruising is like going forward. And just like other industries, cruise lines have to adjust their protocols.

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Meanwhile back to cruising...

For my upcoming Mardi Gras sailing there are still families with children waiting for exemptions to come through with 5 days to go.  Unvaccinated have to apply for an exemption including families of vaccinated adults with unvaccinated children due to age. 

Carnival didn't do CDC simulation cruises so they absolutely must maintain 95% vax rates.  The problem is some vaccinated are cancelling this week which is messing with their ability to maintain 95%.  Families with children are not at all pleased.  In some cases 2 out 3 children have received exemptions forcing families to decide what to do.  In other cases two vaccinated grandparents are cancelling because one grandchild with their parents in another cabin doesn't get an exemption so this further messes with the ability to maintain 95%. 

Now we are seeing vaccinated immunocompromised cancelling based on CDC guidelines for a 3rd dose leading to fewer exemptions for children.

What a mess.  Thanks CDC.  

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21 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

At the risk of heading into a Matt thread lock ...

Why isn't it? 

Yay CDC.

Because there’s steps that we all can take to help slow the spread that a lot of people aren’t doing. Mask up and get vaccinated the two biggest. The “personal responsibility “ line we hear Governors tout makes no sense. To use Matt’s car analogy that’s like removing the law that seatbelts are required and just letting everyone use their own “personal responsibility “ to use seatbelts. 
So I believe we can all do things to help stop the spread and put a end to this. But I’m not all for “anything goes” and those who don’t like that can stay home. 

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19 minutes ago, spursfreak21 said:

Because there’s steps that we all can take to help slow the spread that a lot of people aren’t doing. Mask up and get vaccinated the two biggest. The “personal responsibility “ line we hear Governors tout makes no sense. To use Matt’s car analogy that’s like removing the law that seatbelts are required and just letting everyone use their own “personal responsibility “ to use seatbelts. 
So I believe we can all do things to help stop the spread and put a end to this. But I’m not all for “anything goes” and those who don’t like that can stay home. 

We agree to disagree on personal responsibility, to me if you have chosen to get vaccinated you are basically bulletproof ... go ahead about your business and dont worry about what others are or are not doing.

Matt - no more comments from me since we are heading off course.

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