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Norwegian sues Florida over mandatory vaccine ban


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12 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'll be curious to see if families go back to NCL when they eventually let unvaccinated kids on or if they'll look to other cruise lines.

You may be right, who knows.

To play devil's advocate, do you think average consumer notices/cares in the long term? Meaning, if a family goes to book NCL but they cant because kids arent allowed due to be unvaccinated, do you think next year that same family holds a grudge against NCL? Or they just book whatever appeals to them at the time?

I really don't know the answer, and the proof will be in long run when we look at profits down the road.

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9 minutes ago, Matt said:

You may be right, who knows.

To play devil's advocate, do you think average consumer notices/cares in the long term? Meaning, if a family goes to book NCL but they cant because kids arent allowed due to be unvaccinated, do you think next year that same family holds a grudge against NCL? Or they just book whatever appeals to them at the time?

I really don't know the answer, and the proof will be in long run when we look at profits down the road.

That's true. We're kind of blinded in a way with loyalty to one cruise line.  I'm sure lots of people couldn't care less what cruise line, just if the dates/price/destinations are right.

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2 hours ago, danv3 said:

It’s the last paragraph:

For the foregoing reasons, Plaintiffs’ Motion for Preliminary Injunction (DE 3) is GRANTED. Defendant is ENJOINED from enforcing Section 381.00316 against Plaintiffs pending resolution of the merits of this case.

(Plaintiffs being NCLH and some related parties)

Easy for other cruise lines to use this as a precedent to follow suit, even if only to  get their own temporary injunction.

I say Bravo to NCL for doing this.

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1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

I'll be curious to see if families go back to NCL when they eventually let unvaccinated kids on or if they'll look to other cruise lines.

to be honest, I can't understand why anyone would want to take their un-vacinated child on a cruise ship or to Disney, or any other crowded public unregulated place right now with the surge of the Delta variant.  It is enough of a concern getting them back to face to face school right now.

Before the end of the year the Vaccine will be approved for children and NCL will gladly welcome them back to a much safer environment.

I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments, and apologize to you if I do, they are solely my own opinion. Hopefully we can both still enjoy cruising as that's what we have in common.

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58 minutes ago, CruiseGus said:

to be honest, I can't understand why anyone would want to take their un-vacinated child on a cruise ship or to Disney, or any other crowded public unregulated place right now with the surge of the Delta variant.  It is enough of a concern getting them back to face to face school right now.

Before the end of the year the Vaccine will be approved for children and NCL will gladly welcome them back to a much safer environment.

I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments, and apologize to you if I do, they are solely my own opinion. Hopefully we can both still enjoy cruising as that's what we have in common.

Cruise ships are pretty “regulated” with their protocols.

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On 8/9/2021 at 3:41 AM, smokeybandit said:

I don't think vaccination status affects cruise interruptions since it's been about 50/50 on who's testing positive on board, but if NCL requires vaccines and still requires masks, then what's the point?

With out taking any side , just from doint the math ,  its not really 50/50 if we look at the numbers.

Lets say they found 6 people with C19 on an RCL ship , 3 are vaccinated and 3 are not  . we know that the current capacity is around 30% more and less ,  around 1000  in the Voyager class and 2000 in the Oasis.

We also know that RCL reporting at least 90 % (if not 95%) are vaccinated in there cruise .  Therefore the real calculation should be : 

3 people out of 100 people on the ship which are not vaccinated and found with C19 = 3 %
3 people out of 900 vaccinated people on the ship that found with the C19 =  0.3% 

Or after normalize the numbers its around 91% of the people that found with C19 were unvaccinated  and only 9% were not.

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33 minutes ago, Traveler said:

With out taking any side , just from the math ,  its not really 50/50 if we look on the numbers.

Lets say they found 6 people with C19 on an RCL ship , 3 are vaccinated and 3 are not  . we know that the current capacity is around 30% more and less ,  around 1000  in the Voyager class and 2000 in the Oasis.

We also know that RCL reporting at least 90 % (if not 95%) are vaccinated in there cruise .  Therefore the real calculation should be : 

3 people out of 100 people on the ship which are not vaccinated and found with C19 = 3 %
3 people out of 900 vaccinated people on the ship that found with the C19 =  0.3% 

Or after normalize the numbers its around 91% of the people that found with C19 were unvaccinated  and only 9% were not.

That's all true, and especially true as we see headlines about hospitals.

 

But on a cruise ship, a positive test is treated the same vaccinated or not.

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1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

But on a cruise ship, a positive test is treated the same vaccinated or not.

Absolutely correct, and a good thing now that we've learned vaccinated people can carry enough of the delta virus to be contagious themselves, even if they have only mild symptoms.

That said, I'd much rather sail knowing I have a 10x (at least) smaller chance of "being hit by lightning".

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In my opinion…the difference between ship and shore based infection rate reporting is the strict protocols in place on ships. Imagine if everyone, everywhere had to go through constant testing. Pretty clearly, rates would go up…especially in vaccination breakthrough infections. It seems the majority of infections on board are mild or completely symptom-free…discovered randomly or through contact tracing protocols. The major difference with cruise reported infections is the media. The news seems to have always had a microscope on the cruise industry and now more so than ever. It’s almost as if the media fixates on negative cruise related news and reports with the smugness of ‘we told you so’.  Even so…I believe the industry takes their responsibility to ensure safe and healthy cruising seriously. They have to…it’s the best way to conduct their business, restore confidence, maintain repeat customers and attract new passengers. It just makes sense.

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6 hours ago, luvstodans said:

A bit of a difference when you do the math. I am sure resorts are experiencing as high of higher rates but no one talks about it? 1 to 1 does not always equal same.

I buy that, resorts are probably experiencing higher rates of infection, but they're not under the same microscope the cruise industry is (as are the airlines).   So not being reported and not getting blamed for any spread.  

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2 hours ago, cruisellama said:

I buy that, resorts are probably experiencing higher rates of infection, but they're not under the same microscope the cruise industry is (as are the airlines).   So not being reported and not getting blamed for any spread.  


Their guests are also not having to test and report their results before or during their stays………. 100% of hotel guests could be positive for Covid and we’d never know 

 

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42 minutes ago, ChrisK2793 said:


Their guests are also not having to test and report their results before or during their stays………. 100% of hotel guests could be positive for Covid and we’d never know 

 

Hotels also aren't going to get dinged if someone tests positive in the 5 days after checking out and lists "I was at that hotel" as a potential place of exposure.

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1 hour ago, ChrisK2793 said:


Their guests are also not having to test and report their results before or during their stays………. 100% of hotel guests could be positive for Covid and we’d never know 

 

This was my thoughts exactly the last time I went to Las Vegas.  Very few people were wearing mask indoors, very few people were wearing masks in the elevators bar and clubs.  Without a doubt COVID is spreading unchecked throughout  all the Las Vegas resorts but no one knows because no one is testing.  While places like Las Vegas and other around this country and even the airlines are allowed to bury their head in the sand and pretend COVID doesn't exist cruise lines can't operate like that because of the microscope they are under from the CDC but also the media.

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On 8/8/2021 at 7:24 PM, Matt said:

Now the law is the same in all U.S. states. Only Florida would not allow customers to be asked to provide proof of vaccination (Texas' law had a loophole if Federally mandated, which it is by CDC).

Yes, but the CDC CSO is still in force in Texas, unless the Judge has issued another order since last time I checked.  The order I saw allowed Texas to intervene, but did not extend the TRO (or stay, whichever it is) to Texas.   The Florida law is now not applicable to NCL, but it is to all other cruise lines, and it is subject to change at any moment (as we learned with the CSO).  My point is that all of these legal maneuverings, in my option, will muddy the waters (see, keeping it on a cruise theme), possibly reducing the public's faith in the rules of the cruise companies.  Personally, I am willing to go and follow whatever the rules are and I expect them to be ever changing at this point.  I just don't know if I represent the cruising public.  

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2 hours ago, MrMarc said:

 I just don't know if I represent the cruising public.  

I have a possible example of the "cruising public." I am planning a bachelor/bachelorette cruise in November (on Carnival, but their protocols are pretty similar). Around 16 people total, most of whom have never cruised before or only once. I reached out today to let them know about cruising protocols and rules, and how they would feel if the current rules still held in November. About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright. So maybe that's a good reference for the "cruising public?" 
 

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54 minutes ago, nate91 said:

About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright. So maybe that's a good reference for the "cruising public?" 
 

As much as I would love to be on a ship again, the ever-changing rules have worn me down personally. I just cancelled our Odyssey December cruise before final payment, so we wouldn’t tie up an additional $5k we would be unable to spend by their deadline. 
 

If things calm down between now and December, we might try to book last minute on any ship that week. If we can’t, we will just do a last minute VRBO somewhere.

I love planning our trips, it’s almost as much fun for me as the trip itself. (Yes, I’m weird.)  This flipping and flopping would have me fretting every time the rules changed.  
 

Or every time there was a court ruling that flipped. 
 

Gosh, I will be so thankful when this all finally calms down. ?

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4 hours ago, nate91 said:

About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright.

Off topic but, your friends want you to reschedule or cancel your bachelor/bachelorette cruise? 

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Thanks for the docket number, @CGTLH.

As the documents for the appeal Florida files become available I will be keeping this up to date. It may not be instantaneous after each filing, but not too long after, generally. Included is a link to PACER if you want to watch for it yourself, but it'll potentially cost a small amount of money if you accumulate more than $30.00 in charges over a quarter. ?

US Court of Appeals, 11th District, Case 12729, NCLH v. Florida (2150.com)

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