Matt Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: I'll be curious to see if families go back to NCL when they eventually let unvaccinated kids on or if they'll look to other cruise lines. You may be right, who knows. To play devil's advocate, do you think average consumer notices/cares in the long term? Meaning, if a family goes to book NCL but they cant because kids arent allowed due to be unvaccinated, do you think next year that same family holds a grudge against NCL? Or they just book whatever appeals to them at the time? I really don't know the answer, and the proof will be in long run when we look at profits down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted August 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Matt said: You may be right, who knows. To play devil's advocate, do you think average consumer notices/cares in the long term? Meaning, if a family goes to book NCL but they cant because kids arent allowed due to be unvaccinated, do you think next year that same family holds a grudge against NCL? Or they just book whatever appeals to them at the time? I really don't know the answer, and the proof will be in long run when we look at profits down the road. That's true. We're kind of blinded in a way with loyalty to one cruise line. I'm sure lots of people couldn't care less what cruise line, just if the dates/price/destinations are right. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiseGus Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 hours ago, danv3 said: It’s the last paragraph: For the foregoing reasons, Plaintiffs’ Motion for Preliminary Injunction (DE 3) is GRANTED. Defendant is ENJOINED from enforcing Section 381.00316 against Plaintiffs pending resolution of the merits of this case. (Plaintiffs being NCLH and some related parties) Easy for other cruise lines to use this as a precedent to follow suit, even if only to get their own temporary injunction. I say Bravo to NCL for doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiseGus Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, smokeybandit said: I'll be curious to see if families go back to NCL when they eventually let unvaccinated kids on or if they'll look to other cruise lines. to be honest, I can't understand why anyone would want to take their un-vacinated child on a cruise ship or to Disney, or any other crowded public unregulated place right now with the surge of the Delta variant. It is enough of a concern getting them back to face to face school right now. Before the end of the year the Vaccine will be approved for children and NCL will gladly welcome them back to a much safer environment. I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments, and apologize to you if I do, they are solely my own opinion. Hopefully we can both still enjoy cruising as that's what we have in common. DDaley and luvstodans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorskin76 Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 58 minutes ago, CruiseGus said: to be honest, I can't understand why anyone would want to take their un-vacinated child on a cruise ship or to Disney, or any other crowded public unregulated place right now with the surge of the Delta variant. It is enough of a concern getting them back to face to face school right now. Before the end of the year the Vaccine will be approved for children and NCL will gladly welcome them back to a much safer environment. I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments, and apologize to you if I do, they are solely my own opinion. Hopefully we can both still enjoy cruising as that's what we have in common. Cruise ships are pretty “regulated” with their protocols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 3:41 AM, smokeybandit said: I don't think vaccination status affects cruise interruptions since it's been about 50/50 on who's testing positive on board, but if NCL requires vaccines and still requires masks, then what's the point? With out taking any side , just from doint the math , its not really 50/50 if we look at the numbers. Lets say they found 6 people with C19 on an RCL ship , 3 are vaccinated and 3 are not . we know that the current capacity is around 30% more and less , around 1000 in the Voyager class and 2000 in the Oasis. We also know that RCL reporting at least 90 % (if not 95%) are vaccinated in there cruise . Therefore the real calculation should be : 3 people out of 100 people on the ship which are not vaccinated and found with C19 = 3 % 3 people out of 900 vaccinated people on the ship that found with the C19 = 0.3% Or after normalize the numbers its around 91% of the people that found with C19 were unvaccinated and only 9% were not. CruiseGus, cruisellama, KWofPerth and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvstodans Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 A bit of a difference when you do the math. I am sure resorts are experiencing as high of higher rates but no one talks about it 1 to 1 does not always equal same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted August 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, Traveler said: With out taking any side , just from the math , its not really 50/50 if we look on the numbers. Lets say they found 6 people with C19 on an RCL ship , 3 are vaccinated and 3 are not . we know that the current capacity is around 30% more and less , around 1000 in the Voyager class and 2000 in the Oasis. We also know that RCL reporting at least 90 % (if not 95%) are vaccinated in there cruise . Therefore the real calculation should be : 3 people out of 100 people on the ship which are not vaccinated and found with C19 = 3 % 3 people out of 900 vaccinated people on the ship that found with the C19 = 0.3% Or after normalize the numbers its around 91% of the people that found with C19 were unvaccinated and only 9% were not. That's all true, and especially true as we see headlines about hospitals. But on a cruise ship, a positive test is treated the same vaccinated or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, smokeybandit said: But on a cruise ship, a positive test is treated the same vaccinated or not. Absolutely correct, and a good thing now that we've learned vaccinated people can carry enough of the delta virus to be contagious themselves, even if they have only mild symptoms. That said, I'd much rather sail knowing I have a 10x (at least) smaller chance of "being hit by lightning". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 In my opinion…the difference between ship and shore based infection rate reporting is the strict protocols in place on ships. Imagine if everyone, everywhere had to go through constant testing. Pretty clearly, rates would go up…especially in vaccination breakthrough infections. It seems the majority of infections on board are mild or completely symptom-free…discovered randomly or through contact tracing protocols. The major difference with cruise reported infections is the media. The news seems to have always had a microscope on the cruise industry and now more so than ever. It’s almost as if the media fixates on negative cruise related news and reports with the smugness of ‘we told you so’. Even so…I believe the industry takes their responsibility to ensure safe and healthy cruising seriously. They have to…it’s the best way to conduct their business, restore confidence, maintain repeat customers and attract new passengers. It just makes sense. Pooch, jticarruthers, teddy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK2793 Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/08/norwegian-cruise-can-require-florida-passengers-to-be-vaccinated-judge-rules.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/08/09/desantis-passport-ban-norwegian-cruise/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 6 hours ago, luvstodans said: A bit of a difference when you do the math. I am sure resorts are experiencing as high of higher rates but no one talks about it 1 to 1 does not always equal same. I buy that, resorts are probably experiencing higher rates of infection, but they're not under the same microscope the cruise industry is (as are the airlines). So not being reported and not getting blamed for any spread. WAAAYTOOO, jticarruthers and BrianB 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK2793 Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 hours ago, cruisellama said: I buy that, resorts are probably experiencing higher rates of infection, but they're not under the same microscope the cruise industry is (as are the airlines). So not being reported and not getting blamed for any spread. Their guests are also not having to test and report their results before or during their stays………. 100% of hotel guests could be positive for Covid and we’d never know WAAAYTOOO, CruiseRoyalDad, jticarruthers and 2 others 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted August 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 42 minutes ago, ChrisK2793 said: Their guests are also not having to test and report their results before or during their stays………. 100% of hotel guests could be positive for Covid and we’d never know Hotels also aren't going to get dinged if someone tests positive in the 5 days after checking out and lists "I was at that hotel" as a potential place of exposure. barbeyg, jticarruthers, WAAAYTOOO and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlena Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 Is Norwegian letting a small amount of unvaxxed kids or 100% vaccinated adults / over 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 @Marlena, NCL has stated they are only taking vaccinated passengers. No children under 12 allowed on board for these sailings, and all children 12 and over must be fully vaccinated and have the same proof of vaccination as the adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonOasis Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ChrisK2793 said: Their guests are also not having to test and report their results before or during their stays………. 100% of hotel guests could be positive for Covid and we’d never know This was my thoughts exactly the last time I went to Las Vegas. Very few people were wearing mask indoors, very few people were wearing masks in the elevators bar and clubs. Without a doubt COVID is spreading unchecked throughout all the Las Vegas resorts but no one knows because no one is testing. While places like Las Vegas and other around this country and even the airlines are allowed to bury their head in the sand and pretend COVID doesn't exist cruise lines can't operate like that because of the microscope they are under from the CDC but also the media. BrianB, WAAAYTOOO and jticarruthers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted August 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 NCL - "If you don't have the vax, you're not one of our pax" WAAAYTOOO, jticarruthers, Jverge and 5 others 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jverge Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, smokeybandit said: NCL - "If you don't have the vax, you're not one of our pax" Or if you are a conspiracy theorist regarding vaccines... "if you don't get the chip stay off our ship" smokeybandit, JLMoran, WAAAYTOOO and 8 others 2 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarc Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 7:24 PM, Matt said: Now the law is the same in all U.S. states. Only Florida would not allow customers to be asked to provide proof of vaccination (Texas' law had a loophole if Federally mandated, which it is by CDC). Yes, but the CDC CSO is still in force in Texas, unless the Judge has issued another order since last time I checked. The order I saw allowed Texas to intervene, but did not extend the TRO (or stay, whichever it is) to Texas. The Florida law is now not applicable to NCL, but it is to all other cruise lines, and it is subject to change at any moment (as we learned with the CSO). My point is that all of these legal maneuverings, in my option, will muddy the waters (see, keeping it on a cruise theme), possibly reducing the public's faith in the rules of the cruise companies. Personally, I am willing to go and follow whatever the rules are and I expect them to be ever changing at this point. I just don't know if I represent the cruising public. WAAAYTOOO and Pooch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarc Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 21 hours ago, Jverge said: Or if you are a conspiracy theorist regarding vaccines... "if you don't get the chip stay off our ship" Or they will have a lounge for unvaccinated people and then a lizard lounge. Or no jab, no cab(in). WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGTLH Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 Appeal has been filed: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.596136/gov.uscourts.flsd.596136.45.0.pdf WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate91 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, MrMarc said: I just don't know if I represent the cruising public. I have a possible example of the "cruising public." I am planning a bachelor/bachelorette cruise in November (on Carnival, but their protocols are pretty similar). Around 16 people total, most of whom have never cruised before or only once. I reached out today to let them know about cruising protocols and rules, and how they would feel if the current rules still held in November. About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright. So maybe that's a good reference for the "cruising public?" barbeyg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbeyg Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 54 minutes ago, nate91 said: About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright. So maybe that's a good reference for the "cruising public?" As much as I would love to be on a ship again, the ever-changing rules have worn me down personally. I just cancelled our Odyssey December cruise before final payment, so we wouldn’t tie up an additional $5k we would be unable to spend by their deadline. If things calm down between now and December, we might try to book last minute on any ship that week. If we can’t, we will just do a last minute VRBO somewhere. I love planning our trips, it’s almost as much fun for me as the trip itself. (Yes, I’m weird.) This flipping and flopping would have me fretting every time the rules changed. Or every time there was a court ruling that flipped. Gosh, I will be so thankful when this all finally calms down. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWDW1204 Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 4 hours ago, nate91 said: About half were willing to put up with the protocols, with about half preferring to either reschedule the cruise for a later date when things would (hopefully) be less strict, or cancel the cruise outright. Off topic but, your friends want you to reschedule or cancel your bachelor/bachelorette cruise? barbeyg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGTLH Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 19 hours ago, CGTLH said: Appeal has been filed: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.596136/gov.uscourts.flsd.596136.45.0.pdf Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit Docket #: 21-12729 WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswallow Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 Thanks for the docket number, @CGTLH. As the documents for the appeal Florida files become available I will be keeping this up to date. It may not be instantaneous after each filing, but not too long after, generally. Included is a link to PACER if you want to watch for it yourself, but it'll potentially cost a small amount of money if you accumulate more than $30.00 in charges over a quarter. US Court of Appeals, 11th District, Case 12729, NCLH v. Florida (2150.com) WAAAYTOOO and JeffB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 On Oct. 4, the state filed documents in the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals arguing that a preliminary injunction siding with the cruise line's stance should be vacated. Anyone have the docket documents handy? WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 I found this. Not the docs you’re looking for though https://www.wtsp.com/article/travel/florida-federal-appeals-court-overturn-cruise-line-vaccine-ruling/67-d9a3f590-a0ed-463e-ac9b-777646a33ef4 Jmccaffrey and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGTLH Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Matt said: On Oct. 4, the state filed documents in the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals arguing that a preliminary injunction siding with the cruise line's stance should be vacated. Anyone have the docket documents handy? Case: https://ecf.ca11.uscourts.gov/n/beam/servlet/TransportRoom?servlet=CaseSummary.jsp&caseNum=21-12729&incOrigDkt=Y&incDktEntries=Y ONEDRIVE LINK 10/04/2021 Appellant's brief filed by State Surgeon General. [21-12729] (ECF: Charles Cooper) [Entered: 10/04/2021 04:55 PM] [30 pages] 10/04/2021 Appendix filed [3 VOLUMES] by Appellant State Surgeon General. [21-12729] (ECF: Charles Cooper) [Entered: 10/04/2021 05:10 PM] [Appellant's Appendix Volume I, 222 pages] [Appellant's Appendix Volume II, 247 pages] [Appellant's Appendix Volume III, 129 pages] Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshleyDillo Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, CGTLH said: Case: https://ecf.ca11.uscourts.gov/n/beam/servlet/TransportRoom?servlet=CaseSummary.jsp&caseNum=21-12729&incOrigDkt=Y&incDktEntries=Y 10/04/2021 Appellant's brief filed by State Surgeon General. [21-12729] (ECF: Charles Cooper) [Entered: 10/04/2021 04:55 PM] [30 pages] 10/04/2021 Appendix filed [3 VOLUMES] by Appellant State Surgeon General. [21-12729] (ECF: Charles Cooper) [Entered: 10/04/2021 05:10 PM] [Appellant's Appendix Volume I, 222 pages] [Appellant's Appendix Volume II, 247 pages] [Appellant's Appendix Volume III, 129 pages] Get to reading, @Matt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGTLH Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 21 minutes ago, CGTLH said: 10/04/2021 Appellant's brief filed by State Surgeon General. [21-12729] (ECF: Charles Cooper) [Entered: 10/04/2021 04:55 PM] [30 pages] OneDrive Link: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjpWMo-t4z28gP9CIq8ZU9W6gNqytw Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGTLH Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 19 minutes ago, CGTLH said: 10/04/2021 Appendix filed [3 VOLUMES] by Appellant State Surgeon General. [21-12729] (ECF: Charles Cooper) [Entered: 10/04/2021 05:10 PM] [Appellant's Appendix Volume I, 222 pages] [Appellant's Appendix Volume II, 247 pages] [Appellant's Appendix Volume III, 129 pages] OneDrive Links: [Volume I], [Volume II], [Volume III] WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarc Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 I still wish the fight over how much power a Federal agency has was being decided over a more important activity and a much less polarizing issue than the COVID vaccine. We would have a chance for a less result oriented decision. WAAAYTOOO and jticarruthers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted October 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2022 Posting merely as news that there's resolution in this case. WAAAYTOOO, fireclan and CharmMicah68 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted October 7, 2022 Report Share Posted October 7, 2022 Nothing like waiting for the storm to pass before setting up the umbrellas… Nonetheless….good news… Bowen, jticarruthers, fireclan and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cruiser Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 An appeals court backs Florida's ban on vaccine passports, rejecting cruise lines Norwegian announced it would no longer require passengers to show proof of vaccination against COVID-19 before boarding ships. WAAAYTOOO, MarcBerger, fireclan and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/7/2022 at 6:42 PM, WAAAYTOOO said: Nothing like waiting for the storm to pass before setting up the umbrellas… Nonetheless….good news… Yep, this was some weak sauce. WAAAYTOOO and CharmMicah68 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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