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The Must-Wear-a-Face-Mask Protocol for vaccinated passengers


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6 hours ago, AlmondFarmer said:

On the bright side-

With all the alleged variants to come, Americans will finally learn the Greek alphabet and potentially improve their math and physics competency. 

In my college fraternity days I could recite the Greek alphabet twice while holding a lit match. 

My hubby had to recite 3 times with lit match. Those were the good old days. 

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18 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

However it IS up to them to not restrict numbers of unvaccinated, so in a way, it is Royal’s decision. 

Mask policy isn't dependent on the ratios or numbers of unvaccinated present.  The CDC policy is masks indoors except when eating or drinking - period.  That applies to vaccinated and unvaccinated.  

If by chance a US departure happened to have 100% vaccinated, CDC policy still says masks must be worn indoors except when actively eating or drinking.

The mask policy is in no way within Royal's control - for US departures.

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(1) CSO, Mask Use:

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC
 

  • For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas.

 

(2) Mask order, and inapplicability to cruise ships:

Order: Wearing of face masks while on conveyances and at transportation hubs | Quarantine | CDC

*CDC also plans to amend the January 29, 2021, Order, as soon as practicable, to grant cruise ship operators subject to the Conditional Sailing Order with greater flexibility regarding how mask requirements are implemented on board cruise ships.  Until it can amend the Order, CDC will exercise enforcement discretion regarding mask requirements applicable to operators of, and crew and passengers on board, such cruise ships and will view cruise ship operators as in compliance with the January 29, 2021, Order provided the operators continue to follow the requirements of any technical instructions and the operations manual available on the Cruise Ship Guidance webpage.
 

(Yeah, really idiotic they do it that way, but still, there it is in writing)

 

(3) The overall everything-except-the-CSO change to not requiring mask use indoors:

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated | CDC
 

  • Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.

 

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8 hours ago, Danielle OG said:

Except, that's not what we're talking about here - just masks, and the idea of having to wear them intermittently on a vacation. Everything else you've mentioned is irrelevant when it comes to face mask protocols in particular on a cruise ship. In this case, it IS just a mask. You still get to cruise. You can still have a very enjoyable time. If someone really thinks it will ruin their vacation they I guess they don't have to cruise. I'm double vaxxed, and don't think I need to be wearing a mask, but I will still respect a business' rule. Again, it is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. If it's any more than that, don't go until the rule changes.

I disagree there is a difference between wearing a mask to enter a store or to board an airplane and wearing a mask on a cruise ship any time you're outside your stateroom while moving around from venue to venue. I'm fully vaccinated have been for some time I've taken several vacations since being vaccinated in fact I'm on vacation now in New Orleans I can not fathom having to put a mask back on as a fully vaccinated individual even on a cruise ship.

In my view either the vaccines work or they don't work. If they do work and I believe they do what was there original intent?  There original intent was to prevent severe infections that resulted in hospitalization or God forbid death. We know the vaccines are working at least here in the US, because the  number of people who are now requiring hospitalization and ICU bed are mostly unvaccinated individuals. The vaccines were never designed to prevent infection they were designed to keep people out of the hospital or worst the morgue, so fully vaccinated people should not need to wear mask. They have to stop moving the goal posts, we saw them move the goal post when it cam to testing now they are moving the goal posts again as it pertains to the vaccines.  

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@cruisinghawg

22 hours ago, cruisinghawg said:

The 18th is when the CSO could become "null and void". AA has nothing to do with the cruise industry.

OP said he wasn't going to fly if he had to wear mask, that's why I brought up Airline. A good chunk of people have to fly to the ports.

CSO doesn't become null and void, it becomes a guideline. I personally don't bank on things changing much or even faster just because CSO is now a guideline.

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1 hour ago, Ampurp85 said:

@cruisinghawg

OP said he wasn't going to fly if he had to wear mask, that's why I brought up Airline. A good chunk of people have to fly to the ports.

CSO doesn't become null and void, it becomes a guideline. I personally don't bank on things changing much or even faster just because CSO is now a guideline.

I actually said I wasn't going to fly connecting flights again while the mask mandate remains. I can deal with it onboard, probably specifically because I can aim the little air outlet at my face. I won't like it much, but that isn't horrible and has a relatively manageable time-with-mask. Granted, I'm not talking about any need whatsoever to even go coast-to-coast (i.e., 6/7 hour flights), which would certainly change my statement were that necessary

But the in-between time of connections, stuck in an airport with the same mask mandate is too much. You can't readily get outside without leaving the secure area and having to re-enter through whatever mess the TSA has at the moment, so it's not practical to "go outside" while waiting for a connection. I just endured this for almost 16 hours total returning from Nassau on a connecting flight. Not gonna put myself into that situation again.

In any event, other than a return to Nassau for another B2B in September (all nonstop), the 16 cruises I currently have booked are from ports I drive to -- NJ or MD.

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@dswallow I reread your post and I agree, the most I can do is 10hrs in a mask. Even then I need to go out and get a break. Thankfully, I no longer have to work in mask. But if I need to take the train or a Uber then it is back to mask. I don't want to wear mask on my vacation but I want to cruise so .......

 

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5 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

it seems like they opened more venues to the unvaccinated

The only surprise I saw (one that I didn’t expect) was on SY they permit untaxed to go to Izumi restaurant (but not hibachi).  That’s the only difference I noticed. What else ?

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17 hours ago, twangster said:

Mask policy isn't dependent on the ratios or numbers of unvaccinated present.  The CDC policy is masks indoors except when eating or drinking - period.  That applies to vaccinated and unvaccinated.  

If by chance a US departure happened to have 100% vaccinated, CDC policy still says masks must be worn indoors except when actively eating or drinking.

The mask policy is in no way within Royal's control - for US departures.

Sorry but that is not the way Carnival and Celebrity are operating out of Florida. 

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28 minutes ago, twangster said:

You best get on the phone with Celebrity and have them fix their protocols.

294130830_ScreenShot2021-07-11at11_43_53AM.jpg.fdd0d17c8dcee7619fe30c75fc40230e.jpg

 

I understand what the public facing literature says, but the reality appears to be different. In talking to several folks onboard the Edge the last couple weeks, masks are “encouraged” not “required”. 
Carnival not requiring vaccinated to mask. 
 

I am not trying to be difficult, but I do believe that the current protocols are, in many ways, a product of Royal Caribbean’s decisions. 

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9 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

I understand what the public facing literature says, but the reality appears to be different. In talking to several folks onboard the Edge the last couple weeks, masks are “encouraged” not “required”. 
Carnival not requiring vaccinated to mask. 
 

I am not trying to be difficult, but I do believe that the current protocols are, in many ways, a product of Royal Caribbean’s decisions. 

Regardless who is to blame I cancelled my Odyssey August cruise this morning because of the mask requirements.  

By cancelling now Royal has over 40 days to find a willing participant and that participant has 40+ days to plan their cruise, find something to do in port, get time off work, etc.  Seemed like the fair thing to do for everyone involved as cancelling 72 hours before the cruise would screw Royal, make it harder to resell my cabin on short notice and if they were able to sell my cabin that person would have no time to plan anything or buy anything in the cruise planner.

Maybe by September the mask requirement will be gone.   If not I've got another decision to make in a few weeks.

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14 minutes ago, twangster said:

Regardless who is to blame I cancelled my Odyssey August cruise this morning because of the mask requirements.  

By cancelling now Royal has over 40 days to find a willing participant and that participant has 40+ days to plan their cruise, find something to do in port, get time off work, etc.  Seemed like the fair thing to do for everyone involved as cancelling 72 hours before the cruise would screw Royal, make it harder to resell my cabin on short notice and if they were able to sell my cabin that person would have no time to plan anything or buy anything in the cruise planner.

Maybe by September the mask requirement will be gone.   If not I've got another decision to make in a few weeks.

I did not mean to place “blame” on anyone, Royal Caribbean certainly has the right to institute whatever protocols they seem fit to be best for themselves
 

You and I are like minded. I cancelled my August Symphony, and rebooked Edge for exactly the same reasons. 

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My only advice to anyone wanting to cancel a cruise due to current mask protocols is to wait it out week to week up to your final payment deadline. 

As Matt has mentioned in another thread or two, things are changing so quickly pertaining to mask mandates, to arbitrarily cancel a sailing a month out or longer may be a strategic mistake. 

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The counterargument is that in spring Michael Bayley kept saying telling everyone the CDC would be updating the CSO "soon".  Two months later... they finally did.

Now Michael Bayley is telling everyone the CDC will update the mask protocols "soon".  Tick tock... it's been two weeks already.  

I don't blame Michael Bayley, he likely was misled by the CDC in spring because that's what they do, if it keeps people off ships.

While I agree that change is coming and at some point mask protocols will change, that is all we know.  That and the CDC is very slow to make any changes, painfully slow.

Refunds are only available during a window after protocols are announced.  Refunds or FCC take 45 days. 

Everyone needs to evaluate their own situation and follow their gut.

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This post didn't age well, I just wish Royal stuck with doing the right thing and not requiring masks onboard for the vaccinated -- makes no sense to me. PS I have glasses so wearing a mask is even more annoying.

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/05/24/royal-caribbean-group-ceo-we-will-not-need-be-wearing-masks-cruise-ships

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I will not count on getting rid of the mask during September although I do hope it will happen.

Just take a look with the too vaccine labs , UK and Israel who started quite early , in both the number of cases are rising including people with the vaccine (although still less comparing to non vaccine) . The good new is that until now the number of people who require to get hospital treatments are not rising with the same factor.
Some claiming the antidotes are going down after half a year but nothing is certain yet. For cruise industry , if the same will happen in the US I think it means masks are here to stay for extra few month , I do hope I am wrong 

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11 hours ago, Cruising With JT said:

Does anyone believe that Royal will actually change their announced health protocols around masks? They just announced their mask requirement for Alaska in August and now I am looking at Norwegian due to their 100% vaccinated / no masks or social distancing policy. Dang it, Royal!

You have to make your own decision based on the information you currently have. Like twangster already pointed out Royal is offering refunds (I don’t know if you book a fully refundable cruise or not no need to disclose) but if you didn’t book a fully refundable cruise and you have an issue with the new onboard mask requirements then now is the time to just pull the trigger and cancel your cruise.  By doing that you might run the risk of not being able to find a similar cruise on another cruise line or if you do you’re probably going to pay a bit more because prices are sky high.  If NCL’s policy works better for you then my suggestion would be don’t wait just pull the trigger and go with NCL.  

I’m in the same boat I’m considering canceling my October cruise on Symphony I will not as a fully vaccinated individual be forced to wear a mask on a cruise.  Right now I’m looking to see what NCL or Celebrity has available for late October through mid-November.

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After seeing the mask protocols on other ships, this weekend I canceled my October Indy trip.   Sure, protocols could change by then, but maybe they wouldn’t? My trigger was to cancel prior to final payment

 I didn’t want to set myself up for the position where I’d have to carry a FCC over. I had a great deal on the cabin category for the October cruise.  A 125% FCC would not have been sufficient, when future sailings are pricing out 200% of my reservation for same category.  

I’ll have to wait patiently for my previously-booked April cruise.   Please, No masks by then ?? !

 

Edited by Zurc
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3 hours ago, Zurc said:

After seeing the mask protocols on other ships, this weekend I canceled my October Indy trip.  

We're on Indy in November and will cancel around final payment over this if need be, too. We get a few more weeks to see how the tides turn, thankfully. A drawback though is that as we get closer to the winter and the inevitable rise in cases, I truly do wonder if the masks and other protocol will make a return.

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I am most likely keeping my Ovation cruise from Alaska even with masks, just to see what the experience is like. I am in the process of booking Oasis in September and even if they have masks so be it I guess. Not really sure when Royal will get rid of them. That or I could book the Carnival Mardi Gras around the same time. That ship does look amazing as well...decisions decisions...

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52 minutes ago, Danielle OG said:

A masked day on a cruise ship is better than an unmasked day at home ?

Glad we have choices, and can respect each other’s decisions and tolerances.   If Royal were to give me a free cruise, sure I’d go and wear a mask.  But for me to pay to have to wear a mask, no thank you.  

I was thinking about why Royal is going the test route (so requiring masks) and NCL, Celebrity, Carnival are not - and they are mask free.     I think it goes further than the official position of “10% of our customers are kids under 12”.    I believe many canceled reservations since COVID were then Lifted and Shifted from KSF reservations.   And to exclude kids means Royal would have a ton of refunds to process.  They’d run KSF sale for a long time.  Just a guess. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Danielle OG said:

A masked day on a cruise ship is better than an unmasked day at home ?

We are all vaccinated for our August Allure cruise. If the mask protocols are still in effect, we have no plans to cancel our cruise. If I have to wear a mask for a short time to go from one place to another and when I get there I'm not required to wear a mask, I'm fine with that. I certainly understand where everyone is coming from on this point. As others have said it is a personal preference. This is the last cruise for my in-laws as their health is not that great, and we are all looking for forward to it. 

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On 7/10/2021 at 5:32 AM, twangster said:

The CDC has a lot to learn.  If you ask any Hollywood movie producer they'll you tell that a good scary movie title needs a good evil scary name.  

If so, then the next variant may be called the CV-19 'Murderer Variant.'
That should give the media enough room to scare everyone into getting vaccinated.

They can use scary music, then shock flash hospital beds on the screen.

I lost a cousin to CV-19 in January.
This constant reach for a new deadly variant name and hype is sort of insulting to the really deadly first version.

I don't want in 2025 to hear CV-19 A6Z9 variant.

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10 minutes ago, LifesEz said:

If so, then the next variant may be called the CV-19 'Murderer Variant.'
That should give the media enough room to scare everyone into getting vaccinated.

You may be onto something.  There are hornets and there are murder hornets.  I'll take a plain hornet sting any day over the other.  

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My wife and I were talking about masks and cruising yesterday. 
 

We have a week on Freedom in November.  We’ve been mask free since may 24th and are both vaccinated.   I really am not looking forward to having to wear one again, even for the flight to Florida  

We won’t cancel if masks are still a requirement in November, but we will rethink our stateroom category. 
 

In the past, we have been perfectly content staying in an Inside Cabin.  A mask regulation will have us considering an upgrade to a larger room with a large balcony.  

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34 minutes ago, teddy said:

My wife and I were talking about masks and cruising yesterday. 
 

We have a week on Freedom in November.  We’ve been mask free since may 24th and are both vaccinated.   I really am not looking forward to having to wear one again, even for the flight to Florida  

We won’t cancel if masks are still a requirement in November, but we will rethink our stateroom category. 
 

In the past, we have been perfectly content staying in an Inside Cabin.  A mask regulation will have us considering an upgrade to a larger room with a large balcony.  

Nice! We always go with Balcony or higher...nothing like waking up to that view and having breakfast on your own private balcony without the madness of the buffet etc!

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48 minutes ago, teddy said:

My wife and I were talking about masks and cruising yesterday. 
 

We have a week on Freedom in November.  We’ve been mask free since may 24th and are both vaccinated.   I really am not looking forward to having to wear one again, even for the flight to Florida  

We won’t cancel if masks are still a requirement in November, but we will rethink our stateroom category. 
 

In the past, we have been perfectly content staying in an Inside Cabin.  A mask regulation will have us considering an upgrade to a larger room with a large balcony.  

All but 1 of my past cruises have been in inside cabins. I currently have 6 cruises booked and all are in balcony cabins just for that assurance of our own outdoor space if needed.

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Well great...

A Florida news station cites unvaccinated as the reason why masks will be making a come back in Florida.  

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/07/12/orange-county-again-recommending-masks-as-covid-19-positivity-rate-climbs-higher/

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. – Orange County leaders are once again recommending everyone to wear a mask when in crowded, indoor locations regardless of whether they are vaccinated. This guidance comes as Orange County’s positivity rate has jumped higher in the past two weeks.

According to Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, the county’s 14-day rolling positivity rate now sits at 7.78%.

“Two weeks ago on June 28, it was 4.28%. We are now considered by the CDC the high-risk category for community transmission, that quite frankly is not good news for our county,” Demings said.

“100% of the cases reported yesterday were among unvaccinated individuals,” Pino said. “More so, 100% of the deaths that we are reporting to you today, were among unvaccinated individuals. So we can mask up, we can keep the distance, we can try not to talk about this but the reality is that this is an unvaccinated pandemic.”

 

Here is why I think this relates to cruising:  The CDC is NOT going to relax anything when Orange County, FL home to Orlando and the theme parks is trending the wrong direction in a not so insignificant way.  

I just hope the CDC doesn't roll back prior improvements to the CSO while the legal battle makes its way through the Florida courts.

 

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

“100% of the cases reported yesterday were among unvaccinated individuals,” Pino said. “More so, 100% of the deaths that we are reporting to you today, were among unvaccinated individuals. So we can mask up, we can keep the distance, we can try not to talk about this but the reality is that this is an unvaccinated pandemic.”

Ah, the irony. Florida.

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Interesting data that would tell more of the story is the number of tests conducted and or the total number of cases. I assume vaccinated people are testing less or not at all. This would explain a higher positivity rate even if total cases are unchanged or even decreasing.  A higher positivity rate does not necessitate an increase in cases. 

Cherry picking statistics can tell almost any story. 

I did not investigate beyond the article. I’m simply stating that as written it isn’t relevant in terms of statistical validity. 

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