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Testing onboard is working. 2 Passengers on CelebrityMillennium test positive.


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8 minutes ago, CruiseGus said:

unless i misread your statement, how are unvacinated peoples chance of them becoming critically ill or dying are almost zero

That's just the data that has come out of covid. Unless you're elderly or have significant underlying medical issues, odds are if you get covid it'll pass through you no worse than a flu bug

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8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

That's just the data that has come out of covid. Unless you're elderly or have significant underlying medical issues, odds are if you get covid it'll pass through you no worse than a flu bug

that is not what i have either seen or heard, know of a number of healthy people that died as a result of covid. 

Probably will never convince you of that but did feel i need to say it.

Hope you are able to cruise in the near future and your will be as enjoyable as mine will be, remember my thoughts on what you or anyone posts

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
        Voltaire (1694-1778) French writer and historian.

 

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3 hours ago, steverk said:

"Chaos" hmmmm. I'm on the ship and my description would be "normal" while everyone tries to avoid the elephant in the room.

Other than the crew, I've only seen one person wearing a mask.

There's so few people on the ship that it's hard to tell if some people are hiding in their rooms, but I do find people out  and about.

Thank you for your 'live' reports

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16 minutes ago, CruiseGus said:

that is not what i have either seen or heard, know of a number of healthy people that died as a result of covid. 

Probably will never convince you of that but did feel i need to say it.

Hope you are able to cruise in the near future and your will be as enjoyable as mine will be, remember my thoughts on what you or anyone posts

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
        Voltaire (1694-1778) French writer and historian.

 

 

80% of covid deaths are 65+.  Almost 60% of deaths are 75+. This disease has hit the vulnerable very, very hard, but has hit the younger, healthier populations consistent with the flu.

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Hopefully there will be a forensic review  on the "how".   Retest to see if false or ambiguous, faulty test kit (that happens), maybe falsified vaccination record, perhaps an actual breakthrough?  Could be a combination of things.   Won't know until the land based physicians look at it.  I'm sure Celebrity sets up an incident team just like for accidents.  Peaks my interest, but no sense worrying about it.

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20 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Hopefully there will be a forensic review  on the "how".   Retest to see if false or ambiguous, faulty test kit (that happens), maybe falsified vaccination record, perhaps an actual breakthrough?  Could be a combination of things.   Won't know until the land based physicians look at it.  I'm sure Celebrity sets up an incident team just like for accidents.  Peaks my interest, but no sense worrying about it.

Based on their shore excursion schedule, I see one of two ways

 

1) They picked up covid around the same time as they did their pre-cruise test, so it was too soon for the test to pick it up

2) They were exposed to covid in Barbados, same day as the post-cruise test. But the test picked up not true infection, but just the concentration of the virus in the nasal passage from exposure, and the back to back tests picked that up.

 

In the UK there have been concerns around mass testing of vaccinated people and having people test positive due scenario 2, and not because the virus was reproducing internally.

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16 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Based on their shore excursion schedule, I see one of two ways

 

1) They picked up covid around the same time as they did their pre-cruise test, so it was too soon for the test to pick it up

2) They were exposed to covid in Barbados, same day as the post-cruise test. But the test picked up not true infection, but just the concentration of the virus in the nasal passage from exposure, and the back to back tests picked that up.

 

In the UK there have been concerns around mass testing of vaccinated people and having people test positive due scenario 2, and not because the virus was reproducing internally.

I agree with your observation about the timing.

I'd guess a pre cruise stay in st. Maarten as we were restricted to ship based shore excursions in Barbados.  The "bubble" was meticulously maintained in Barbados, but we were freetovisit st. Maarten.

My snorkeling excursion in Barbados skipped the beach because it  couldn't be adequately isolated. 

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51 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

80% of covid deaths are 65+.  Almost 60% of deaths are 75+. This disease has hit the vulnerable very, very hard, but has hit the younger, healthier populations consistent with the flu.

I agree with your observations. Based on data published by the CDC, when looking at survivability/mortality rates by age group, all were consistent with the flu except for those over 70. In that age group, the flu was slightly more deadly.

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29 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

In the UK there have been concerns around mass testing of vaccinated people and having people test positive due scenario 2, and not because the virus was reproducing internally.

Another possibility is, based on recent studies, they could have recovered previously from the virus as those individuals, vaccinated or not, can have positive test results. The testing is imperfect at best.

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19 minutes ago, Ogilthorpe said:

Another possibility is, based on recent studies, they could have recovered previously from the virus as those individuals, vaccinated or not, can have positive test results. The testing is imperfect at best.

Yes, but in that scenario it would have been picked up in the first PCR test, most likely

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7 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Another alternative is to reject the premise of the game altogether, which in my view is what needs to happen for us to return to normal (on or off of a cruise ship).

Even if you don't realize it, you are buying into the CDC's idea that managing COVID must be premised on a zero COVID strategy. How different would our mitigation measures look if we could get public health officials to acknowledge publicly what they are already planning for privately: COVID is endemic. 

That is not what I said at all, in fact I said quite the opposite I said COVID will come onboard the ship even Richard Fain has stated as much it is how you manage it that will prevent outbreaks, but if you only test passengers 3 days prior to boarding  and never test them again how will the cruise line know to enact their COVID protocols? 

Let's use the recent MSC cruise as an example.  Several people tested positive on that ship and they don't require vaccines either to cruise because of the slow rollout in Europe.  However, the only way MSC knew they had a problem and to activated their COVID protocols, quarantine the positive passengers and ultimately disembark the positive passengers , their entire traveling party and perhaps even other passengers who were deem in "close contact" was because MSC performed testing and contact tracing during the voyage. If MSC has not performed COVID testing after the voyage was underway they never would have known COVID was onboard the ship which would have allowed COVID to spread unchecked. 

If you're going to allow unvaccinated passengers on a cruise and that cruise is making stops at several ports of call then cruise lines must perform COVID tests on passengers at some point during the voyage it is the only way to keep COVID cases onboard (and their will be cases onboard) low and prevent any type of outbreak.  COVID found it way onto two different cruise ship over the span of 2 days but in both cases what stopped COVID from spreading unchecked was because each cruise line performed COVID testing during the voyage then activated their COVID protocols.

Having COVID protocols and activating COVID protocols are two different things. 

 

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So many questions:

What kind of vacation they got , as we know JJ is less effective.

Will any port change now the protocols for visitors ?

Will anyway track the people on the ship after returning home (like testing them a week after cruise) so we know the protocols really working ?

The people who were tested positive attended a catamaran ride with food and snorkeling. I hope the crew is being tested also. The blogger who is on the ship (https://cruise.blog/taxonomy/term/4) was at this excursion and had to be at her room until her test results came back negative.

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Unless something drastically changes, here is the outlook.

  • The people that tested positive were isolated and treated. Not left to rot, like in 2020.
  • People with close contact got isolated, tested, and most importantly...released after testing negative
  • Everyone else went on with the cruise.
  • The next sailing (and Adventure) are going as scheduled

Glad to see things handled well.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Unless something drastically changes, here is the outlook.

  • The people that tested positive were isolated and treated. Not left to rot, like in 2020.
  • People with close contact got isolated, tested, and most importantly...released after testing negative
  • Everyone else went on with the cruise.
  • The next sailing (and Adventure) are going as scheduled

Glad to see things handled well.

They key to me here is they stuck with their protocols and gave other cruise lines a "I'm glad that wasn't me that had to deal with it first, but now we have confidence in our own protocols" monent

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1 hour ago, Nacho Libre said:

If they don’t clean up their act pronto on this testing nonsense, I’m just gonna cancel for March and eat the deposit,  let someone else deal with the headache,

March is a LONG ways away.  I certainly wouldn't make any decisions for March based on what's going on now.

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9 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

If they don’t clean up their act pronto on this testing nonsense, I’m just gonna cancel for March and eat the deposit,  let someone else deal with the headache,

I would not cancel a March 2022 cruise based on what's going on now.  If current reporting is to be believed most Caribbean Islands are ramping up their vaccine roll outs.  The islands with the highest vaccination rate at 60% of the population in the Caribbean are the Cayman Islands but they have banned cruise ship until 2022. The next three islands are Anguilla at 40% then Turks and Caicos at 31%, and finally British Virgin Islands at 26%.  All other islands including the Bahamas and Jamaica are below 24%.  While over in Mexico and Central America, Mexico leads with just 15% of their population being vaccinated. However all of these cruise destinations with-in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America are ramping up their roll out as more vaccine becomes available so we should see much higher vaccination rate come of March 2022. 

I wouldn't cancel the cruise right now, instead I would suggest you wait until final payment is due and if it looks like cruise lines are still performing COVID testing during the voyage as that date nears then you make your decision. Don't make a decision based on what you are seeing right now because things will get better as time goes on.

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12 hours ago, Nacho Libre said:

If they don’t clean up their act pronto on this testing nonsense, I’m just gonna cancel for March and eat the deposit,  let someone else deal with the headache,

I share your angst.  I'm guessing there will be a change when the CSO extinguishes (our trips are scheduled after that).  Can you wait for lifting of the CSO?  Might end up short cut with an injunction.

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3 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

 

This is great news especially for people who are vaccinated because even if you come into contact with a COVID positive person or the cruise deems you've been in close contact with a positive person its doesn't mean the cruise is over if you are fully vaccinated.  Contrast that with the MSC where 2 passengers tested positive but with a totally different outcome.

In both cases the protocols worked but in two entirely different ways, for fully vaccinated (Celebrity) your cruise vacation can continue once you test negative, but in the case of MSC even though according to USToday only 2 passengers tested positive they are reporting MSC removed not only the to positive passengers but their families which tested negative as well as people deemed in close contact even though they all tested negative except for the two original passengers. The reason MSC took these extraordinary steps and removed all those passengers was because none of them were vaccinated.  

The protocols worked in both cases but I'm sure the people on MSC who were deemed in close contact (not members of the family or part of their traveling party) were not happy that their cruise vacation was cut short.  But because they were unvaccinated and the cruise line didn't want to risk it by allowing them to remain onboard.  

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On 6/11/2021 at 10:13 AM, CruiseRoyalDad said:

I can see the headline now "Covid not the only threat to the newly restarted Cruise industry...old foes such as NORO rear their ugly heads on the at sea petri dishes". Enter CDC. (End Scene 1). 

It's already happening elsewhere! Read a story headlined something like "New respiratory virus overtaking the South. Here's what you need to know."

It was talking about RSV. You know, the spectre that haunts parents of young children every flu and cold season. The most plausible explanation for it taking off right now is that it's spreading among adults (who are usually exposed every year or so, and it is nothing more than a week long nuisance) who have lost some immunity to it. The more adults who get it directly results in more children getting it, and thus more hospital admissions due to RSV.

Another fun tidbit from the article that made me want to scream: the reporter attributed the rise in cases to "not wearing masks, and dropping social distancing measures". While technically true, it kind of glosses over the reality that the root cause is a disruption in the adult immunity that children depend on for a virus with no vaccine or easily administered treatments... A disruption caused by the measures they're trying to say saved children from the disease until now.

I have never had faith the cruise lines would be treated fairly in the media, no matter if they had a near perfect track record with regard to COVID onboard. Every day we concede to operating within needless guidelines, we make it harder to get back to normal.

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43 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

It's already happening elsewhere! Read a story headlined something like "New respiratory virus overtaking the South. Here's what you need to know."

It was talking about RSV. You know, the spectre that haunts parents of young children every flu and cold season. The most plausible explanation for it taking off right now is that it's spreading among adults (who are usually exposed every year or so, and it is nothing more than a week long nuisance) who have lost some immunity to it. The more adults who get it directly results in more children getting it, and thus more hospital admissions due to RSV.

Another fun tidbit from the article that made me want to scream: the reporter attributed the rise in cases to "not wearing masks, and dropping social distancing measures". While technically true, it kind of glosses over the reality that the root cause is a disruption in the adult immunity that children depend on for a virus with no vaccine or easily administered treatments... A disruption caused by the measures they're trying to say saved children from the disease until now.

I have never had faith the cruise lines would be treated fairly in the media, no matter if they had a near perfect track record with regard to COVID onboard. Every day we concede to operating within needless guidelines, we make it harder to get back to normal.

IMO - Because it's  painted by media as an industry of excess conspicuous consumption.  The optics of fine dining, availability of mass quantities of adult beverages with little umbrellas by a pool, hoards of drunk spring breakers, and large ships spewing  dark exhaust is a political target.   Even though the cruise industry actually provides one of the most cost effective methods to providing meals, lodging, entertainment, and wide opportunity for touring to people with or without families.  Top it off with those who have no knowledge of the industry making lame accusations about ships being dirty floating petrie dishes.   Cruising has become one of the most maligned industries - some due to ignorance (some peoples only knowledge comes from watching Titanic and the Love Boat), but recently, amplified as result of the pandemic which furthers some political agenda.

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1 hour ago, LizzyBee23 said:

It's already happening elsewhere! Read a story headlined something like "New respiratory virus overtaking the South. Here's what you need to know."

It was talking about RSV. You know, the spectre that haunts parents of young children every flu and cold season. The most plausible explanation for it taking off right now is that it's spreading among adults (who are usually exposed every year or so, and it is nothing more than a week long nuisance) who have lost some immunity to it. The more adults who get it directly results in more children getting it, and thus more hospital admissions due to RSV.

Another fun tidbit from the article that made me want to scream: the reporter attributed the rise in cases to "not wearing masks, and dropping social distancing measures". While technically true, it kind of glosses over the reality that the root cause is a disruption in the adult immunity that children depend on for a virus with no vaccine or easily administered treatments... A disruption caused by the measures they're trying to say saved children from the disease until now.

I have never had faith the cruise lines would be treated fairly in the media, no matter if they had a near perfect track record with regard to COVID onboard. Every day we concede to operating within needless guidelines, we make it harder to get back to normal.


Covid had this peculiar effect of "viral interference" which shut down the flu and pretty much all common cold viruses except rhinovirus. My son was in school full time all year, and kids 10 and under didn't have to wear masks. There were barely any cold bugs going around, and zero flu. It was amazing (other than the shadow of covid)

Now the cold virus is coming back and it's freaking people out because they forget what it's like to have the common cold.

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5 hours ago, smokeybandit said:


Covid had this peculiar effect of "viral interference" which shut down the flu and pretty much all common cold viruses except rhinovirus. My son was in school full time all year, and kids 10 and under didn't have to wear masks. There were barely any cold bugs going around, and zero flu. It was amazing (other than the shadow of covid)

Now the cold virus is coming back and it's freaking people out because they forget what it's like to have the common cold.

Yes, it’s comical to think the flu just disappeared because of the use of masks. Just before the flu disappeared, we were told about the double effect of flu and Covid.

Yes, the reason the flu was a non factor was indeed viral interference. But, come next flu season, there will be those who will push for masks on children again because they don’t understand correlation and causation and it will not stop the flu. 
 

 

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...... best place as any to post this. I'm a geek about this stuff but to me it's fascinating. There's been this ongoing debate here about why cruise ships appear to be treated much differently by the CD than other venues by folks who think they aren't really that different. They are. 

This is an early release study dated July 2021 on a cruise ship that sailed from Piraeus (Athens) on March 20th, 2020. It was an unnamed, 2,500-passenger and 1,606-bed capacity with 33 crew members that sailed from Piraeus, Greece, to Cesme, Turkey, where an additional 350 crew members embarked on March 8, 2020. For 21 days, the ship sailed without any disembarkations or embarkations until the first suspected coronavirus disease (COVID-19) case was reported to the health authority of the Piraeus port on March 28, 2020. 

The Title of the study:COVID-19 Outbreak on a Passenger Ship and Assessment of Response Measures, Greece, 2020. I'd offer the CDC may have a purpose for releasing this early study right now. Ya think? 

Abstract

We describe response measures to an outbreak involving 128 (33.4%) coronavirus disease cases (46.1% asymptomatic) among 383 persons onboard a passenger ship. Multivariate analysis indicated that dining in certain rooms and bar areas, nationality, working department (for crew members), and quarantining onboard the ship were significantly associated with infection.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/7/21-0398_article

 

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