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Possible Way Around Florida's Law


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First, I apologize if this idea has already been floated.  Also, I'm not a lawyer so I would love it if anyone familiar with the law could chime in.

If the Florida law forbids companies from requiring customers from showing evidence of vaccination (or legitimate medical reason not to have it), Could RCL ask guests to voluntarily show evidence of vaccination?   Also, (and this might be a stupid idea) what if stateroom attendants were instructed to NOT enter staterooms (for cleaning, changing sheets, etc.) if the guests have not shown shown evidence of their vaccination?  

Have these ideas been discussed?  

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Not a lawyer either... but I feel like if they make it so everybody is assumed unvaccinated, and if you want to volunteer the status on board you can change 'status' to vaccinated.

There is also language going around stating that once you enter the cruise ship you are technically in international waters and bound by internal law, which would ignore Florida law.

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19 hours ago, baltodave said:

First, I apologize if this idea has already been floated.  Also, I'm not a lawyer so I would love it if anyone familiar with the law could chime in.

If the Florida law forbids companies from requiring customers from showing evidence of vaccination (or legitimate medical reason not to have it), Could RCL ask guests to voluntarily show evidence of vaccination?   Also, (and this might be a stupid idea) what if stateroom attendants were instructed to NOT enter staterooms (for cleaning, changing sheets, etc.) if the guests have not shown shown evidence of their vaccination?  

Have these ideas been discussed?  

Yes there has been a thread but unfortunately some discussions went over the line. So lets keep this one civil. The CDC at one time floated the idea (if this is a good way of saying this) of everyone must have a negative test the day of embarkation, midway through the cruise and on the last day unless you are vaccinated. Then you do not have to have the test. Testing has been going here in Florida since this began so no problems. Having someone tested is not refusing service and by showing a vaccine card voluntarily we are in compliance with the statute. 

Another thing to keep in mind that this statute was an addition to current Emergency Management law already on the books. Some other additions and subtractions were included also. Once the federal emergency goes away this does also. 

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19 hours ago, RyanS said:

Not a lawyer either... but I feel like if they make it so everybody is assumed unvaccinated, and if you want to volunteer the status on board you can change 'status' to vaccinated.

There is also language going around stating that once you enter the cruise ship you are technically in international waters and bound by internal law, which would ignore Florida law.

I assume what you say is true as it pertains to international law but this would also include the CDC and their rules for the high seas. 

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14 hours ago, gatorskin76 said:

Selfishly I wish they would limit that to adults.  

I agree, many people, including myself, are willing to and have gotten vaccinated but don’t want it pushed on their minor children who have little to no risk from covid, especially children like mine who’ve already had covid and barely had worse than cold symptoms.  I’m just glad that for now, he’s below the age group (9yo) they’re requiring it for.  If it comes to his age group before any of our cruises, I’d cancel before getting him vaccinated no matter how much money it would mean losing.  Just my personal opinion.

 

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10 minutes ago, ChrisK2793 said:

I agree, many people, including myself, are willing to and have gotten vaccinated but don’t want it pushed on their minor children who have little to no risk from covid, especially children like mine who’ve already had covid and barely had worse than cold symptoms.  I’m just glad that for now, he’s below the age group they’re requiring it for.  If it comes to his age group before any of our cruises, I’d cancel before getting him vaccinated no matter how much money it would mean losing.  Just my personal opinion.

 

I’m in a similar situation - my husband and I are fully vaccinated but  younger DS (13) had a vaccine reaction last year and we're not willing to chance the COVID vaccine for him.  I’m hoping things are straightened out before our cruise in February.  If not, I’ll cancel or push out our cruise. 
 

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21 hours ago, RyanS said:

There is also language going around stating that once you enter the cruise ship you are technically in international waters and bound by internal law, which would ignore Florida law.

international waters are 24 miles out from the coast.  You are under the state / federal laws until then. 

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On 5/31/2021 at 5:40 PM, RyanS said:

Not a lawyer either... but I feel like if they make it so everybody is assumed unvaccinated, and if you want to volunteer the status on board you can change 'status' to vaccinated.

There is also language going around stating that once you enter the cruise ship you are technically in international waters and bound by internal law, which would ignore Florida law.

Yeah but you are already on the boat with unvaccinated people so the point is moot! ha

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6 hours ago, PaulRC said:

international waters are 24 miles out from the coast.  You are under the state / federal laws until then. 

Not quite. The regulating document - the Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) - is a CDC program authorized under U.S.C. 42, Section 264. This document is the basis for the CSO. Regulatory authority for safety and infection control measures rests within it. Regulatory authority extends from the end of international waters and up to "the waters edge." Between those two points, federal jurisdiction exists. Beyond it - on the land side - there is a mix of overlapping federal and state jurisdiction.

Our interests lie in what goes on within and who has authority over things on cruise ships and cruise terminals. The VSP's and CDC's regulatory authority applies to a cruise from the point at which the ship leaves international waters including when it is tied up at a cruise terminal. WIthin that well defined space, IMO, the CDC is within it's authority to regulate cruise ship sanitation and infection control. i.e., the NSO and CSO are both lawful. Regulatory authority within the cruise terminal belongs, IMO, to the state. Both of these opinions of mine are not without debate and FL's law suit against HHS/CDC, is, in part, about getting a ruling from the federal court on the extent and content of the CSO/VSP.  

 

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6 hours ago, PaulRC said:

international waters are 24 miles out from the coast.  You are under the state / federal laws until then. 

12 is fed waters, 3 is state... However like an embassy  it can be considered foreign soil when entering a foreign owned and operated facility that is floating. Then fed takes precedence over state .  None of this means much I don't think cause Desantis is busy crafting a cruise ship exemption in that law... https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=6ab793785ed5

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10 hours ago, gatorskin76 said:

He is definitely going to need to do something, but if exemption is the route his public comments are a head scratcher.

He’s a lawyer. He’ll “craft” a statement that’ll make him sound like a hero. I don’t think he thought this part through initially and he’s got to realize the industry REALLY needs to be successful right out of the gate and knowing vaccination status is key for this start up. I really like the guy since he was my US rep. He’s allowed to screw up every now and then. ?

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I will have to give the administration credit from a political standpoint on this one. 

Desantis made the Executive Order that was made a law and then the CDC said, cruises can happen if Vaccine thresholds meet a certain level. 

So the CDC can now say that they said cruises can happen with vaccinated passengers and crew BUT Desantis is the roadblock now not the CDC. Painted Desantis into a corner of his own making. 

Also, the CDC knows that summer is family season with many cruise lines and the family centric cruise lines would not ne able to meet the vaccine thresholds they set. 

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41 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

So the CDC can now say that they said cruises can happen with vaccinated passengers and crew BUT Desantis is the roadblock now not the CDC. Painted Desantis into a corner of his own making. 

On the flip side, DeSantis is saying that the CDC has a de facto vaccine mandate that the cruise lines have to follow

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11 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Very true. I hope this will all get sorted out soon. Seems like an unforced error by DeSantis and I like the man. 

This is known in the political world as unintended consequences. DeSantis is trying to keep the individuals privacy as he sees them slipping away little by little. The president also is not in favor of these passports either, all be it for different reasons.

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It will be really interesting what the final outcome will be on other cruise lines in regards to requiring vaccines. 

If I were a competitor of Royal, I would give the passengers a choice!  It would be a brilliant marketing tool!   I know that a Disney ship vs the parks are very different environments, but they NEVER required the vaccine or every mentioned it was being considered.  

People may just consider jumping ship (haha) to have a choice!

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1 hour ago, RBRSKI said:

It will be really interesting what the final outcome will be on other cruise lines in regards to requiring vaccines. 

If I were a competitor of Royal, I would give the passengers a choice!  It would be a brilliant marketing tool!   I know that a Disney ship vs the parks are very different environments, but they NEVER required the vaccine or every mentioned it was being considered.  

People may just consider jumping ship (haha) to have a choice!

It is incredible that the Parks can go on an honor system with indoor masking and we are still dealing with all of this for cruising.  Not suggesting that the Parks are wrong for doing what they are doing, but it’s an interesting juxtaposition.

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19 minutes ago, gatorskin76 said:

It is incredible that the Parks can go on an honor system with indoor masking and we are still dealing with all of this for cruising.  Not suggesting that the Parks are wrong for doing what they are doing, but it’s an interesting juxtaposition.

Totally agree, but you can draw similar double standards about a variety of things imposed on the cruise lines, chief among them needing to get federal approval to operate a business.

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Also on mynews13.com, I find this interesting

"The volunteer passengers will be Disney Employees (known as cast members), not volunteers from the general public."   

These "volunteers" are employed by Disney in which an employee could make them get the vaccine.

I don't believe Disney has published any type of vaccine requirements or ages unless someone can find this on the internet.  

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24 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

These "volunteers" are employed by Disney in which an employee could make them get the vaccine.

Traditionally, employees who volunteer are how cruise lines source pretend passengers when they've needed it in the past.

It's always struck me as odd that only Royal Caribbean asked for volunteers for test cruises and no other lines have set up something similar.

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