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Celebrity Cruises Will Resume Cruises From Florida in June


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This is the way a great cruise line does it. Deliberate, aggressive, transparent. There's been none of the silly teaser videos, no confusion about sailing plans, just straight forward, this is business. I've posted on the Celebrity thread that I know exactly what's happening and how it will happen on my booked cruise out of Athens on July 9th. 

@Matt said: Unlike Celebrity, Royal Caribbean will not be able to reach the 95% mandate of passengers being vaccinated by the CDC to skip test cruises.

That's not really the case. Mr. Fain, or whoever is running the clown show there, chose to go with a hybrid mix of vaxed and unwaxed passengers and to do the test crises to get certified by the CDC. From a practical standpoint that's potentially putting up unnecessary barriers, e.g., what if the CDC says on the first go, "not good enough, do it again?" From a health health standpoint, I think that creates potential for problems. Although the risk is small, an infection - just one or two - is possible, more possible with a hybrid mix of passengers and unvaccinated people on excursions, catching COVID, in a port with circulating virus and brining it back on board ship. That would be disastrous. I get the family orientation of RCL but get the boats with vaxed passengers on line and go from there. 

Egg on your face Mr. Fain.

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35 minutes ago, JeffB said:

This is the way a great cruise line does it. Deliberate, aggressive, transparent. There's been none of the silly teaser videos, no confusion about sailing plans, just straight forward, this is business. I've posted on the Celebrity thread that I know exactly what's happening and how it will happen on my booked cruise out of Athens on July 9th. 

@Matt said: Unlike Celebrity, Royal Caribbean will not be able to reach the 95% mandate of passengers being vaccinated by the CDC to skip test cruises.

That's not really the case. Mr. Fain, or whoever is running the clown show there, chose to go with a hybrid mix of vaxed and unwaxed passengers and to do the test crises to get certified by the CDC. From a practical standpoint that's potentially putting up unnecessary barriers, e.g., what if the CDC says on the first go, "not good enough, do it again?" From a health health standpoint, I think that creates potential for problems. Although the risk is small, an infection - just one or two - is possible, more possible with a hybrid mix of passengers and unvaccinated people on excursions, catching COVID, in a port with circulating virus and brining it back on board ship. That would be disastrous. I get the family orientation of RCL but get the boats with vaxed passengers on line and go from there. 

Egg on your face Mr. Fain.

To each their own

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2 hours ago, JeffB said:

This is the way a great cruise line does it. Deliberate, aggressive, transparent. There's been none of the silly teaser videos, no confusion about sailing plans, just straight forward, this is business. I've posted on the Celebrity thread that I know exactly what's happening and how it will happen on my booked cruise out of Athens on July 9th. 

@Matt said: Unlike Celebrity, Royal Caribbean will not be able to reach the 95% mandate of passengers being vaccinated by the CDC to skip test cruises.

That's not really the case. Mr. Fain, or whoever is running the clown show there, chose to go with a hybrid mix of vaxed and unwaxed passengers and to do the test crises to get certified by the CDC. From a practical standpoint that's potentially putting up unnecessary barriers, e.g., what if the CDC says on the first go, "not good enough, do it again?" From a health health standpoint, I think that creates potential for problems. Although the risk is small, an infection - just one or two - is possible, more possible with a hybrid mix of passengers and unvaccinated people on excursions, catching COVID, in a port with circulating virus and brining it back on board ship. That would be disastrous. I get the family orientation of RCL but get the boats with vaxed passengers on line and go from there. 

Egg on your face Mr. Fain.

I am disappointed that Royal Caribbean didn't go the vaccinated route. Forget the test cruises, I don't want to be on a cruise with people who aren't vaccinated, because the reason they probably didn't get vaccinated is NOT because of health reasons or religion or whatever. They are just anti-vaxxers and have all these dumb theories about the vaccine. Plus the risk is higher of an outbreak if you mix vax'd and unvax'd... it may backfire for Royal Caribbean and they may regret not going the vaccinated route. We will see. Luckily my next cruise isn't until November so hopefully things are better by then in terms of all this craziness.

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2 hours ago, johnt83 said:

I am disappointed that Royal Caribbean didn't go the vaccinated route. Forget the test cruises, I don't want to be on a cruise with people who aren't vaccinated, because the reason they probably didn't get vaccinated is NOT because of health reasons or religion or whatever. They are just anti-vaxxers and have all these dumb theories about the vaccine. Plus the risk is higher of an outbreak if you mix vax'd and unvax'd... it may backfire for Royal Caribbean and they may regret not going the vaccinated route. We will see. Luckily my next cruise isn't until November so hopefully things are better by then in terms of all this craziness.

I would happily cruise with 'the great un-vaxxed'.  Just as long as I could cruise, the risks are minuscule!"!

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5 hours ago, johnt83 said:

I am disappointed that Royal Caribbean didn't go the vaccinated route. Forget the test cruises, I don't want to be on a cruise with people who aren't vaccinated, because the reason they probably didn't get vaccinated is NOT because of health reasons or religion or whatever. They are just anti-vaxxers and have all these dumb theories about the vaccine. Plus the risk is higher of an outbreak if you mix vax'd and unvax'd... it may backfire for Royal Caribbean and they may regret not going the vaccinated route. We will see. Luckily my next cruise isn't until November so hopefully things are better by then in terms of all this craziness.

Yeah, it’s terrible to be around people with dumb theories about Covid like people who believe wearing a cloth mask protects them from an aerosolized virus or people who think children should have been kept out of schools. People who wear masks outside. People who really believe Covid was first transmitted from an animal to humans. People that believe a higher rate of people are hospitalized from Covid than actually are. 
 

The point being is there is wild theories on both sides. Just because people chose not to get vaccinated don’t mean they are anti- vaxxers . Maybe they recovered from Covid, have natural immunity, etc. 

and guess what? On your November cruise, there will be unvaccinated people on that ship… oh, the horror!!!! Whenever you cruise beyond November it will be the same thing. I would suggest you cancel any cruises so you can be consistent with your beliefs 
 


 

 

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4 hours ago, icf75 said:

I note the article states US guests (because of the current travel restrictions). Does anyone know what Celebrities policy is for non-US children and vaccinations?

Here's the quote and, correct, its from the author and does not reflect Celebrity policy:

All Celebrity ships will sail with a vaccinated crew. U.S. guests ages 16 and older must be fully vaccinated and, as of August 1, 2021, all U.S. guests ages 12 and older must be fully vaccinated.

This is from the Celebrity web site in the section Healthy at Sea:

All guests ages 16 years and older must be fully vaccinated with all Covid-19 vaccine doses administered at least 14 days prior to sailing. As of August 1, 2021, all US Guests age 12 and older must be fully vaccinated. For UK residents, all guests 18 and over must be fully vaccinated with all Covid-19 vaccine doses administered at least 14 days prior to sailing. Crew members onboard will be vaccinated.

No distinction is made at the Celebrity web site between US and non-US guests. Everyone has to be vaccinated to sail

Another point: Regardless of which path a cruise line choses to purse between 95/98 and test cruises, the CDC requires each ship to be approved to sail by applying to, in fact, sail. There are two sources that apply to and define what this means. They are the Federal Register that contains the actual Framework for Conditional Sailing and Initial Phase COVID-19 Testing Requirements for Protection of Crew and Passengers (October 20th 2020) and the COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order at the CDC web site (last updated May26th 2021). I've provided links to all the applicable documents below. If you really want to be informed about what is behind the CSO and the re-start, I recommend you at least scan them.

The Framework for Conditional Sailing Order at the CDC web site (last updated May26th 2021) is the most current source and I found it interesting that the section regarding permission to pursue the 98/95 pathway was just published yesterday via an update to the CDC source! Wow. The cruise lines have to be fully informed of both of these sources to establish what they need to do to apply to the CDC for, obtain approval from the CDC and actually sail. I've just read both of them. What I found interesting is that it appears that the Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) is a central component to the CSO. A lot of the stuff in the CSO is just a regurgitation of the provisions of the VSP that cruise ships are already in compliance with. That does not mean there are not a lot of hoops to jump through. It means that many of the hoops have already been cleared.

TBF to Mr. Fain and RCL, they simply chose another route not any more complex or burdensome than the 95/98 route. What it does mean is that RCL's startup is going to be slower and take longer and this may very well comport with RCL's operations plans and are different than Celebrity's. My post last night was too harsh wrt to RCL and Mr. Fain and to congratulatory of Celebrity's 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/11/04/2020-24477/framework-for-conditional-sailing-and-initial-phase-covid-19-testing-requirements-for-protection-of

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/05/10/2021-09895/conditional-sailing-order-technical-instructions-and-operations-manual

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/desc/aboutvsp.htm

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51 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

Count me in with you. No concerns about cruising with the un-vaxxed no matter what their reason.

It is absolutely correct to note that the risk of contracting COVID on board a cruise ship is very small and that risk is only slightly higher for a hybrid mix of passengers than it is for a fully (95%) vaccinated passenger manifest.

I think we all know this and most of us, including me, are willing to cruise in the hybrid setting. Where the risk is the highest is for the lines themselves. The bottom line is that they can't afford ANY infections for reasons that have been discussed here. So, for them, they are trying to build a zero risk environment. Hats off to all the cruise lines for all that they are doing to achieve this as closely as they can. We are all going to be a lot better off from an infection control standpoint as cruises slowly but steadily return.  

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As far as the vaccine passport law Desantis' has, it it sort of like splitting hairs. His law says companies in Florida cannot ask to see such a thing. Most cruise lines are international companies so it would not really apply to them. Also asking to see a vaccine card is not the same as a vaccination passport. I think many cruise lines know this, so it might not be high on their list.

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1 hour ago, JeffB said:

It is absolutely correct to note that the risk of contracting COVID on board a cruise ship is very small and that risk is only slightly higher for a hybrid mix of passengers than it is for a fully (95%) vaccinated passenger manifest.

I think we all know this and most of us, including me, are willing to cruise in the hybrid setting. Where the risk is the highest is for the lines themselves. The bottom line is that they can't afford ANY infections for reasons that have been discussed here. So, for them, they are trying to build a zero risk environment. Hats off to all the cruise lines for all that they are doing to achieve this as closely as they can. We are all going to be a lot better off from an infection control standpoint as cruises slowly but steadily return.  

I agree with your statement but wish it wasnt true.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Everyone is wondering this and no one really knows what to expect.

Cruise lines certainly havent said anything.

Forgive a dumb question here, but if the law goes into effect July 1st, and their first sailing is June 26th, are they off the hook for this first sailing? I know that doesn't touch any of the issues for the 2nd sailing on, and you're right back at square one, but does this really apply to the 2nd sailing? And then, I agree, probably some negotiating going on behind closed doors, but at least they could get one in, if they had to split hairs?

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12 minutes ago, nhilding10 said:

Forgive a dumb question here, but if the law goes into effect July 1st, and their first sailing is June 26th, are they off the hook for this first sailing? I know that doesn't touch any of the issues for the 2nd sailing on, and you're right back at square one, but does this really apply to the 2nd sailing? And then, I agree, probably some negotiating going on behind closed doors, but at least they could get one in, if they had to split hairs?

Yep...sounds right.

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2 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

How will this sailing deal with Desantis' vaccine passport law? 

How is Celebrity planning to deal with this? 

Here is the law that everyone is concerned with:

read: 1121 381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

Notice the last sentence. The cruise lines can require screening, which is what I believe I saw last week, but you do not have to be screened if you have proof of vaccination.

 

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34 minutes ago, nhilding10 said:

Forgive a dumb question here, but if the law goes into effect July 1st, and their first sailing is June 26th, are they off the hook for this first sailing? I know that doesn't touch any of the issues for the 2nd sailing on, and you're right back at square one, but does this really apply to the 2nd sailing? And then, I agree, probably some negotiating going on behind closed doors, but at least they could get one in, if they had to split hairs?

Florida is still under the EO that becomes law on the first. In other words no they are still on the hook.

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Desantis chimes in...

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/governor-desantis-responds-to-celebrity-cruises-vaccine-requirement-for-fl-cruises

 

DeSantis says the vaccine requirements put in place by the cruise line violate the spirit of the Governor’s Emergency Order 21-81, which prohibits vaccine passports and protects the fundamental rights of Floridians – including the right to medical privacy. The governor also says the policy would be a violation of Florida’s recently enacted law banning vaccine passports, SB 2006, effective July 1.

"Companies doing business in Florida, including Celebrity Cruises, should immediately cease to impose such discriminatory policies upon individuals. Companies that violate this law would be subject to a fine of $5,000 each time they require a customer to present a 'vaccine passport' for service," DeSantis said.

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1 hour ago, cruisinghawg said:

Here is the law that everyone is concerned with:

read: 1121 381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

Notice the last sentence. The cruise lines can require screening, which is what I believe I saw last week, but you do not have to be screened if you have proof of vaccination.

 

So one way to potentially get around this law is to say "XYZ screening protocol is required to cruise, but if you voluntarily provide proof of complete vaccination, you may skip XYZ screening protocol.  To be clear, no one is required to provide proof of vaccination."  

Downside there is it doesn't guarantee a fully-vaccinated (or even largely fully vaccinated) ship.  

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I don't think Florida has a leg to stand on when it comes to banning so-called "Vaccine Passports".  In Zucht v. King (1922), the court ruled that schools could bar students who had not been vaccinated.  The court has also ruled that denying service to a customer is legal as long is it not because of a person's status in one of the following protected classes: race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.  The unvaccinated are not a protected class.  And federal law clearly has jurisdiction as the cruise lines are engaged in interstate commerce.  Health privacy laws don't apply because RCL is not your healthcare provider and it would be you who would be divulging your medical status.

Now a new ruling could change this, but the court has (at least historically) been hesitant to overturn previous precedents.

Clearly Celebrity either has an inside track they are working or are very confident in their legal standing.

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2 hours ago, danv3 said:

So one way to potentially get around this law is to say "XYZ screening protocol is required to cruise, but if you voluntarily provide proof of complete vaccination, you may skip XYZ screening protocol.  To be clear, no one is required to provide proof of vaccination."  

Downside there is it doesn't guarantee a fully-vaccinated (or even largely fully vaccinated) ship.  

If you are vaccinated why worry.  

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4 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

Desantis chimes in...

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/governor-desantis-responds-to-celebrity-cruises-vaccine-requirement-for-fl-cruises

 

DeSantis says the vaccine requirements put in place by the cruise line violate the spirit of the Governor’s Emergency Order 21-81, which prohibits vaccine passports and protects the fundamental rights of Floridians – including the right to medical privacy. The governor also says the policy would be a violation of Florida’s recently enacted law banning vaccine passports, SB 2006, effective July 1.

"Companies doing business in Florida, including Celebrity Cruises, should immediately cease to impose such discriminatory policies upon individuals. Companies that violate this law would be subject to a fine of $5,000 each time they require a customer to present a 'vaccine passport' for service," DeSantis said.

So after sueing the CDC to allow cruising he is now going to say Celebrity cannot sail under these rules? What a mess!

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13 minutes ago, Vancity Cruiser said:

So after sueing the CDC to allow cruising he is now going to say Celebrity cannot sail under these rules? What a mess!

Yes and no. Two different issues 

the lawsuit had to do with CDC overreach

His vaccine passport law prohibits businesses in FL from having vaccine requirements 

I think DeSantis painted himself in a corner. At first he was a champion of cruising returning but his passport law is now a stumbling block

i am hopeful like others DeSantis and the cruise lines can come to compromise because I would hope DeSantis wouldn’t want to be the barrier that prevents cruising from FL. It would run contrary to his position on cruising returning to FL

It seems to be a little bit of a political game now between the CDC and DeSantis. The CDC now can rightfully claim that they are saying cruising can resume in FL with vaccinated crew and passengers but DeSantis is to blame. Again, politics ruin everything 

 

 

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2 hours ago, StayFrosty said:

I don't think Florida has a leg to stand on when it comes to banning so-called "Vaccine Passports".  In Zucht v. King (1922), the court ruled that schools could bar students who had not been vaccinated.  The court has also ruled that denying service to a customer is legal as long is it not because of a person's status in one of the following protected classes: race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.  The unvaccinated are not a protected class.  And federal law clearly has jurisdiction as the cruise lines are engaged in interstate commerce.  Health privacy laws don't apply because RCL is not your healthcare provider and it would be you who would be divulging your medical status.

Now a new ruling could change this, but the court has (at least historically) been hesitant to overturn previous precedents.

Clearly Celebrity either has an inside track they are working or are very confident in their legal standing.

Very well said!

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I'm surprised Desantis publicly stated Celebrity Cruises will be in violation of legislation he orchestrated that prohibits business operating in FL from requiring vaccination to enter and/or receive services from that business. He could have just remained silent. I hate it that there will be controversy and will be in the news. But the reality is that Federal Law trumps state law in this case as @StayFrostynotes.

Here's how this might go down: A compromise is reached and both sides demure not wanting to make the other look bad. No compromise is reached, Celebrity sails on 6/26 (not yet under the provision of the new law) and after (where it will be), FL fines Celebrity who then goes to court and slam dunks the FL law that pertains.  

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I don't believe in vaccine passports but I understand why the cruise industry would temporarily require them.

What I think is comical and hypocritical is DeSantis has been preaching since the start of the pandemic that he trusts Floridians and Florida business to do the right thing and do what is best for the business, its employees and customers, and government needs to advise but not punish business and individuals. 

DeSantis this past March overturned all the fines that were levied by local governments against individuals and businesses who broke COVID rules put in place by their local government.  But now the same DeSantis has signed a bill in direct contrast to everything he has been preaching since the start of the pandemic.  He is not trusting local Florida businesses to do what they feel is in the best interest of their business and he also will levy $5,000 dollar fines each time a business breaks the law. And he has said COVID restrictions would have devastated Florida's economy but now the very law he championed could be the very thing that slows or stops cruising from resuming in the state of Florida. 

I like DeSantis but sometimes I just want to ask him what the heck are you doing?  You are now playing the same political game you've accused everyone else of playing.

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I found today's Desantis statement interesting: (quoted from Matt's story on the Home Page):

Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law.

The first line is a fundamental claim in FL's law suit against HHS/CDC. He gives up on this, HHS lawyers will be all over it. If I'm the judge in this case listening to oral arguments, the defendant is going to have a point. How can you argue the CDC has no legal authority to impose requirements on the cruise industry. For the record, I think he's wrong. There's an abundance of U.S.C. that under specific circumstances (up to the water's edge), the CDC, for the most part, can do what it is requiring cruise lines to do in the CSO. A federal declaration of a PHE appears to be key in that authority. Bring that to an end and the CDC's CSO is dead in the water.

This is really the proverbial shit-sandwich for Desantis. I don't fell bad for him at all. IMO, it was completely avoidable. All he had to do was exempt the cruise industry from compliance  with state law offering that internationally registered companies can file for an exception and we'll look at it on case by case basis considering the benefits to the state. Nonetheless, I don't think his legislation will survive a court challenge, he knows it and all this is no more than pandering to his conservative constituency.  

 

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11 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm sure both sides are busy trying to find wording that makes both sides look good when cruise lines sail from Florida with vaccine requirements.

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/05/27/floridas-vaccine-passport-law-holding-royal-caribbeans-new-health-protocols-cruises?fbclid=IwAR1qVwWJpVoBnM4F_kWVkKTmRGVBxcF5baXyvH3bhS386BFtQVyEX3GN564

 

"She went on to say that cruise executives from Royal Caribbean Group, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings, and Carnival are working with Governor DeSantis, "we're ironing out a statement that will articulate how cruising will be different than in the state."

 

 

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16 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

Yeah, it’s terrible to be around people with dumb theories about Covid like people who believe wearing a cloth mask protects them from an aerosolized virus or people who think children should have been kept out of schools. People who wear masks outside. People who really believe Covid was first transmitted from an animal to humans. People that believe a higher rate of people are hospitalized from Covid than actually are. 
 

The point being is there is wild theories on both sides. Just because people chose not to get vaccinated don’t mean they are anti- vaxxers . Maybe they recovered from Covid, have natural immunity, etc. 

and guess what? On your November cruise, there will be unvaccinated people on that ship… oh, the horror!!!! Whenever you cruise beyond November it will be the same thing. I would suggest you cancel any cruises so you can be consistent with your beliefs 
 


 

 

I am still cruising because I am vaccinated but I would prefer to be around those who are also vaccinated, at least majority. You do realize that the media is just aching for some outbreak or something bad to happen on a ship that had unvaccinated people, and people will be like "told you to do vaccinated only"... no one knows how this will play out. People who choose to not vaccinate, that is up to them, but cruise lines have to assume the risk of bringing these types of people onboard. Why else are they vaccinating all their crew and want most of their passengers vaccinated? They are only doing these test cruises because kids can't get the vaccine. If there was a vaccine for kids under 12 right now, I can almost guarantee that it would be only vaccinated cruises. They should do vaccinated cruises and unvaccinated cruises, separately, and see what happens. Not to mention, being on a ship with unvaccinated passengers may increase the likelihood of more restrictions such as masks and all that. Fully vaccinated cruises as it stands now, no masks are required and barely any restrictions. Cruises sailing around the world that are unvaccinated, masks required with a bunch of restrictions. Pick which side you want to cruise on.

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I think Celebrity is acting in bad faith to sell a service that they know they  may not be available to deliver. Though I think that a compromise will be made in the end, there is also a possibility that this sailing will need to be cancelled because it’s in clear violation. I think that they should have worked out all details of an arrangement with FL government before selling this cruise to consumers. 
 

conversely, I think DeSantis is operating in bad faith as well by not allowing business set their own terms of service. His stance runs contrary to his championing of cruises restarting. Going on a cruise and being required to show proof of vaccination is not like being denied basic goods & services because you are unvaccinated. I understand his desire not to create two classes of people in FL. The vaccinated and unvaccinated which can lead to discrimination by businesses. BUT, as many have mentioned, he could have made exceptions for certain types of business within FL. It’s one thing to be denied entry into grocery store because you are unvaccinated but quite another matter to not be able to take a cruise because you are not vaccinated. It’s a distinction that shouldn’t be difficult for DeSantis to see. Why would he politically be the sole reason for port workers to remain unemployed and cruise related tourism stopping in his state 

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16 hours ago, cruisinghawg said:

If you are vaccinated why worry.  

^^^^THIS^^^^^
If you are fully vaccinated on a cruise, why would you worry about the people around you and if they have or have not vaccinated? 

I totally understand the optics of how the media is going to spin it as soon as one person tests positive on a cruise. I am just wondering how it will look if they report an outbreak on a fully vaccinated cruise.... vs. an outbreak on a mixed cruise with both vax and unvaxxed. I know either way the media will spin it to make it sound bad... but I think that the public would start to question things a lot more if there were positive cases reported on a vaxxed only cruise. 

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