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Requiring Vaccine...so no Fla.?


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32 minutes ago, SteveinSC said:

Since, it seems, RC will be requiring proof of vaccination in your documents, I guess that means no cruises out of Florida? Am I missing something? 

During a travel agent call with Celebrity this question was asked.. They basically said they are going to leave from Florida and they don't have to listen to that law.. Maybe they have lawyers who advised them they don't have to listen to the Governor thank god. But they said they will be leaving from Florida 

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46 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm 99.9% sure RC will sail out of Florida with its vaccine policy.

I agree with this @smokeybandit. What distrubes me is that if RCG knows they can sail out of FL per @AGSLC5 then why don't they say so? Why doesn't the Governor clear this up by saying his no proof of vaccination policy does not apply to the cruise lines? I think it's pretty clear cruiselines will not be subject to the Desantis no proof of vaccination requied when sailing from FL ports.  

So, tell us that in clear an uncertain terms. Instead there's nothing in writing. Cruisers, businesses that rely on the revenue crusiers bring to town, port service providers are all asking this question. The fog of uncertainty, the tittilating slow release of critical information by RCG seems to me to be unnecessary.

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27 minutes ago, JeffB said:

I agree with this @smokeybandit. What distrubes me is that if RCG knows they can sail out of FL per @AGSLC5 then why don't they say so? Why doesn't the Governor clear this up by saying his no proof of vaccination policy does not apply to the cruise lines? I think it's pretty clear cruiselines will not be subject to the Desantis no proof of vaccination requied when sailing from FL ports.  

So, tell us that in clear an uncertain terms. Instead there's nothing in writing. Cruisers, businesses that rely on the revenue crusiers bring to town, port service providers are all asking this question. The fog of uncertainty, the tittilating slow release of critical information by RCG seems to me to be unnecessary.

I'm with you, but I think in reality, they're all trying to work together so no one comes out looking worse than they have to. DeSantis can't just back off his policy like that without re-election repercussions. The cruises need to balance looking like they're cooperating with the CDC. The CDC has to appear that it's taking the hard line, conservative approach that it wants to be know for. 

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2 hours ago, JeffB said:

I agree with this @smokeybandit. What distrubes me is that if RCG knows they can sail out of FL per @AGSLC5 then why don't they say so? Why doesn't the Governor clear this up by saying his no proof of vaccination policy does not apply to the cruise lines? I think it's pretty clear cruiselines will not be subject to the Desantis no proof of vaccination requied when sailing from FL ports.  

So, tell us that in clear an uncertain terms. Instead there's nothing in writing. Cruisers, businesses that rely on the revenue crusiers bring to town, port service providers are all asking this question. The fog of uncertainty, the tittilating slow release of critical information by RCG seems to me to be unnecessary.

Royal's travel agent call is this week.. I think they will be making a very similar announcement to travel agents that Celebrity did..  I also think during the travel agent call this week they will make the official announcement of when they will be able to sail from the USA. I am excited and I hope they will start sailing from USA in July!!! 

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Here's the big But....

Each port has to have it's own health and safety plan in place and that's at the discretion of the state (FLORIDA) to approve. The local news reports I'm seeing state that's where Gov DeSantis may hold things up. They won't be able to sail in or out of the port with a vaccine mandate (state) and won't be able to sail at all without a vaccine mandate (federal).

I live in Brevard County FL (Port Canaveral), so it's a thing in the news here. There is no indication that this governor will change his position, if the past year is any indication.

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Click on the RCCL home page link labeled Health and Travel Alerts at the top of the page and see if you find any mention of the change to the vaccination policy!  Where is it buried you ask?  In the FAQs for what you should know before you book.  I guess they don’t think it’s worthy of an “Alert.”   Particularly if you’re already booked.  They have truly botched this on a major league level.  I am personally furious and I’m rethinking whether this is a cruise line I would ever consider using in the future.

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28 minutes ago, Tarheel0907 said:

i just dont know how you can require a Vaccine to cruise, no other vacation spot does this....june 1st Vegas is going back to Pre Covid. you cant survive on vaccinated people only.... there isnt enough people vaccinated 

There are plenty of vacation spots all over the world with vaccine requirements. 

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30 minutes ago, Tarheel0907 said:

i just dont know how you can require a Vaccine to cruise, no other vacation spot does this....june 1st Vegas is going back to Pre Covid. you cant survive on vaccinated people only.... there isnt enough people vaccinated 

Vegas doesn’t need the blessing of the CDC to open back up. 
 

In addition, a few dozen cases in Vegas will be no big deal.  A few cases on a cruise ship will be a catastrophe. 

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48 minutes ago, Tarheel0907 said:

i just dont know how you can require a Vaccine to cruise, no other vacation spot does this....june 1st Vegas is going back to Pre Covid. you cant survive on vaccinated people only.... there isnt enough people vaccinated 

I just booked Alaska for this coming season and there was an alert at top of the booking page saying required proof of vaccination, if i remember was also in statement before clicking for paying deposit.

I for one am darn glad they are requiring it makes me feel even safer.

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2 hours ago, Tarheel0907 said:

i just dont know how you can require a Vaccine to cruise

Because the cruise industry is held to a double standard.

The general public thinks of cruise ships and instantly thinks of:

  • Covid on Diamond Princess
  • Covid on Grand Princess
  • Covid on Ruby Princess
  • Icebergs
  • Carnival poop cruise

It's obviously not fair, but this is the world we live in. And when there is one case (turned out to be a false positive), it makes big headlines.

When there's a covid case elsewhere, it doesnt garner much, if any, attention.

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9 hours ago, SteveinSC said:

Since, it seems, RC will be requiring proof of vaccination in your documents, I guess that means no cruises out of Florida? Am I missing something? 

In Florida Department of Health's responses to RC's request the department stated Florida has limited statute authority with respect to cruise ships and it does not need to give its permission for cruising to resume from the stat of Florida.  However the state officials went a step further and stated nothing in state law stands in the way of cruise ship operations.  This information was also on the homepage on this blog site. 

 

When I first read the response I  immediately thought about DeSantis's new law banning vaccine passports and I wondered if the statement from the Florida Department of Health could also be applied to the law banning vaccine passports?  I don't see Royal abandoning the Florida market so it would seem as if Florida's new law does not apply to cruise ships.

Although I'm fully vaccinated I'm hoping this requirement is temporary and will fade away by late 2021 or January of 2022.  Should cruising resume in this country in July I 100% understand why cruise lines are now onboard with requiring most passengers be fully vaccinated.  There will be an immense amount of scrutiny on the cruise industry once sailings resume, they can't afford to have an outbreak on any ship.  Right now public opinion is with the cruise industry, even people who are part of the never cruisers understand how unfairly the cruise industry has been treated.  No other industry has been shut down do to COVID except the cruise industry so public opinion is on the cruise industries side because a lot of people are seeing this as government over reach by the CDC.  But it would only take one COVID outbreak on a ship to turn the tide against the cruise industry, and if there is another shut down I'm not sure this industry will survive.

 

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10 minutes ago, Matt said:

Because the cruise industry is held to a double standard.

The general public thinks of cruise ships and instantly thinks of:

  • Covid on Diamond Princess
  • Covid on Grand Princess
  • Covid on Ruby Princess
  • Icebergs
  • Carnival poop cruise

It's obviously not fair, but this is the world we live in. And when there is one case (turned out to be a false positive), it makes big headlines.

When there's a covid case elsewhere, it doesnt garner much, if any, attention.

It's too bad the Carnival Triumph was remembered for the geysers of feces.

The same cruise also featured a total loss of power, so besides being stranded there was no power and therefore no cooking.  For days.

 

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3 hours ago, Tarheel0907 said:

i just dont know how you can require a Vaccine to cruise, no other vacation spot does this

No other vacation spot can abruptly end your vacation because of an outbreak:

"If a certain threshold level of COVID-19 is detected onboard the ship during your voyage, the voyage will end immediately, the ship will return to the port of embarkation, and your subsequent travel, including your return home, may be restricted or delayed."

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Disappointed but not surprised.  I am not an anti vaxer but this seems like an unnecessary vaccine for teenagers where the risk is extremely low.  I am not comfortable vaccinating my kids. Many feel differently and many feel the same.  For those that feel differently a suite on Symphony in August will open up on Monday as I will be canceling. This was a rebook of our cancelled April 2020 cruise.  For me it is time for a refund. Looks like we won't be cruising for awhile.  For those who are vaccinated enjoy getting back to the open seas.  Tip extra if you can, those poor souls have been out of work for over a year! 

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5 hours ago, Craig 01020 said:

No other vacation spot can abruptly end your vacation because of an outbreak:

"If a certain threshold level of COVID-19 is detected onboard the ship during your voyage, the voyage will end immediately, the ship will return to the port of embarkation, and your subsequent travel, including your return home, may be restricted or delayed."

sure they can....and did

 

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Just curious ..... none of the screen shots of the advisory on vaccinations shows who the sender is. RCL? 

I'm remain distrubed by the poor, often confusing and/or contradictory information being promulgated by RCG. As I posted earlier/elsewhere, it isn't hard to make sure that offficial policy is coming from one source, is accurate and is reflective of current federal and state guidance. I've also said this: RCG has to have some level of insight into what CDC's stand is on the CSO or they would not be making plans to sail from Seattle in July, completing logistical and staffing reuirements for the ships that will begin revenue sailings and taking bookings.

The announcments of and the bookings for an Alaska season from Seattle and promulgation of a policy that vacination will be required to board any RCG sailing from a US port signals that (A) RCG knows they are going to sail in July and (B) they aren't going the test sailings option  route to restart. Given this logical reasoning, there is no reason at all for RCG to not open check in for bookings inside 90d and publish COVID protocols and procedures that will be in place when the sailing occurs on the check in pages.

Cruisers understand that ports in countries being visited on a sailing may have addional COVID requirements. Just state that in announcments of the ship's COVID protocols and procedures and then reinforce them with announcments, adding any updates, the evening before the port call. This isn't rocket sicence.  As well, it's a call for RCG to get it's act together with regard to the critically important aspect of information dissemination involving passenger health, safety and comfort.   

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14 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Just curious ..... none of the screen shots of the advisory on vaccinations shows who the sender is. RCL? 

I'm remain distrubed by the poor, often confusing and/or contradictory information being promulgated by RCG. As I posted earlier/elsewhere, it isn't hard to make sure that offficial policy is coming from one source, is accurate and is reflective of current federal and state guidance. I've also said this: RCG has to have some level of insight into what CDC's stand is on the CSO or they would not be making plans to sail from Seattle in July, completing logistical and staffing reuirements for the ships that will begin revenue sailings and taking bookings.

The announcments of and the bookings for an Alaska season from Seattle and promulgation of a policy that vacination will be required to board any RCG sailing from a US port signals that (A) RCG knows they are going to sail in July and (B) they aren't going the test sailings option  route to restart. Given this logical reasoning, there is no reason at all for RCG to not open check in for bookings inside 90d and publish COVID protocols and procedures that will be in place when the sailing occurs on the check in pages.

Cruisers understand that ports in countries being visited on a sailing may have addional COVID requirements. Just state that in announcments of the ship's COVID protocols and procedures and then reinforce them with announcments, adding any updates, the evening before the port call. This isn't rocket sicence.  As well, it's a call for RCG to get it's act together with regard to the critically important aspect of information dissemination involving passenger health, safety and comfort.   

The way I read it, since they are allowing unvaccinated minors ineligible for vaccination, then test cruises will still be a requirement. 

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19 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Just curious ..... none of the screen shots of the advisory on vaccinations shows who the sender is. RCL? 

I'm remain distrubed by the poor, often confusing and/or contradictory information being promulgated by RCG. As I posted earlier/elsewhere, it isn't hard to make sure that offficial policy is coming from one source, is accurate and is reflective of current federal and state guidance. I've also said this: RCG has to have some level of insight into what CDC's stand is on the CSO or they would not be making plans to sail from Seattle in July, completing logistical and staffing reuirements for the ships that will begin revenue sailings and taking bookings.

The announcments of and the bookings for an Alaska season from Seattle and promulgation of a policy that vacination will be required to board any RCG sailing from a US port signals that (A) RCG knows they are going to sail in July and (B) they aren't going the test sailings option  route to restart. Given this logical reasoning, there is no reason at all for RCG to not open check in for bookings inside 90d and publish COVID protocols and procedures that will be in place when the sailing occurs on the check in pages.

Cruisers understand that ports in countries being visited on a sailing may have addional COVID requirements. Just state that in announcments of the ship's COVID protocols and procedures and then reinforce them with announcments, adding any updates, the evening before the port call. This isn't rocket sicence.  As well, it's a call for RCG to get it's act together with regard to the critically important aspect of information dissemination involving passenger health, safety and comfort.   

The sender is rcl.

I know it's frustrating. Look at it this way.  Things are confused because they are  working up until the last moment to ensure the best, least restrictive cruise possible. 

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40 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

The way I read it, since they are allowing unvaccinated minors ineligible for vaccination, then test cruises will still be a requirement. 

A capacity limited ship may be able to sail immediately, without test sailings if unvaccinted children comprise less that 5% of all pax. Not a hard bar to get over ....... around 75. But I  take your point. RCL May not want to risk running up against that number during the booking period and then before to limit that cohort.

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7 minutes ago, JeffB said:

A capacity limited ship may be able to sail immediately, without test sailings if unvaccinted children comprise less that 5% of all pax. Not a hard bar to get over ....... around 75. But I  take your point. RCL May not want to risk running up against that number during the booking period and then before to limit that cohort.

Yeah, that’s my thought. Prepare for the worst case scenario (over 5% unvaccinated) hope for the best (under 5%)

again, just an opinion, I have no verifiable insight. 

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I understand why - the desire to mitigate risk as much as possible just to move forward.   I don't like gov't mandates, but I would not disagree it is a valid additional risk mitigation action (looks good).   Then you build off the success and requirements will hopefully back off.  

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I believe they already proved they can mitigate risk via the Singapore sailings. Requiring vaccinations for age groups not at risk is government overstepping and providing good optics for those who are afraid IMHO.  This will be the new normal for some time. Hopefully we will get back to sailing when and if Restrictions losen up.  Til then happy sailing to those that can

3 hours ago, cruisellama said:

I understand why - the desire to mitigate risk as much as possible just to move forward.   I don't like gov't mandates, but I would not disagree it is a valid additional risk mitigation action (looks good).   Then you build off the success and requirements will hopefully back off.  

 

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The reality is that PH authorities like Walenski, Fauci and others are not in the business of risk analysis. They are in th business of evaluating disease risk and then PH policy should spring from that ....... after the costs of various mitigation measures are evaluatged. The object is to maximisw bang for the buck. With SARS2  that never happened. It's that failure of the last two administrations to evaluate the benefits v. costs of a PH policy that has to be corrected going forward and I beleive it will be. The CDC, in the case of the cruise lines, fashioned PH polcy that clearly exceeded their authority given outcomes. That can't happen ever again.

I think PH authorities can make a case that regulation of the cruise industry's health and safety procedures and protocols is needed to prevent profit from driving operations. But, there is plenty of regulation that's already on the books that could have been tweaked short of what happened from March 2020 onward for the CDC to fulfill it's regulatory responsibility. The NSO and now the CSO were way overboard, some of it legal, most of it not.

We're left with the ashes that were once a vibrant, growing and important industry that contributed heavily to the global economy. It's shameful that it happened in the first place, moe shameful that it hasn't been corrected wholesale. That could have happend with a ruling from Judge Merryday and could still happen if mediation fails. 

 

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2 hours ago, JSB_Z51 said:

I believe they already proved they can mitigate risk via the Singapore sailings. Requiring vaccinations for age groups not at risk is government overstepping and providing good optics for those who are afraid IMHO.  This will be the new normal for some time. Hopefully we will get back to sailing when and if Restrictions losen up.  Til then happy sailing to those that can

 

You can not extrapolate the Singapore experiences to North American cruising. Far, far too many variables between the 2 markets, passenger pool, and embarkation point Covid landscape. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don’t understand the fact that the cruises have been left out of everything opening up as though they’re a different entity. But now they fall under the “business” category of not being able to require proof of vaccine?  It’s like a double slap in the face. 

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