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25 minutes ago, JeffB said:

I'd add that a good metric for the CDC to throw in with what you suggest is that the county (make sure you read that as COUNTY, not country as this metric should be regional) the cruise port is located within have a %positivity below 5%. If that criteria is met, un-vaxed, under 16s as well as everyone else can cruise after a negative PCR. I'd prefer that a second test after 72h be performed to catch leakers creating as close to a perfect bubble  that is reasonably achievable. 

Side note, Broward Co., home of PEV, has a % positivity rate of under 3% and has been maintaining under 5% for weeks. To my knowledge, Ports of Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville and Canaveral are all in counties with circulating virus metrics below 5%.

We are scheduled to sail on Anthem out of Bayonne in December. Hudson County currently appears to be around a 3% positivity rate so I am determined to remain upbeat about our chances of sailing by then.

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24 minutes ago, Ian T said:

We are scheduled to sail on Anthem out of Bayonne in December. Hudson County currently appears to be around a 3% positivity rate so I am determined to remain upbeat about our chances of sailing by then.

IMO, unless something bad happens (not likely) by December, in the US anyway, we could be seeing a complete relaxation of the current CSO wrt shipboard sanitation regulations (what the authority and jurisdiction of the CSO springs forth from). 

My view is that by early fall, the Public Health Emergency (PHE) in the US will have been ended, possibly even sooner than that but, I'll go with "early fall" for now. Depending on what happens globally with vaccination programs and roll-outs the WHO will declare the pandemic over but regional epidemics still a concern. 

What that means for Americans is that the CSO, as we know and understand it's provision today, will be cancelled by the CDC, significantly improved by the CDC and merged into updates to current sanitation and infection control regulations or ruled by the court in FL currently hearing FL's law suit against HHS/CDC as unlawful. That will result in the CSO being enjoined. Favor improved/merged .... that option may come out of the current mediation effort assigned by the Federal court hearing FL's law suit. BTW, I believe going forward there will also be Congressional hearings on lthe CDC itself and limiting the authority of the CDC to impose policy like the NSO and CSO. I doubt that will happen again.

IOW, you (and the rest of us) won't likely be dealing with any of this in sailings from US ports. COVID vaccine seasonal schedules will be as common as flu shots. COVID as a disease will become influenza like. The difference bing more transmissible with a higher death rate but manageable.  What we will be dealing with is significantly safer cruising when it comes to infection control and ship sanitation. Silver lining if you could call it that.  

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TL;DR

We sail just a few weeks after our daughter turns 12.  We are unsure if we should give her the vaccine.  We have taken it, so what's the hold up?  She is 11 soon 12, we are in our 40's.  She is still growing and maturing.  There is no long term data on the potential side-effects it could cause.  There is news that children are potentially developing myocarditis after getting the shot.  Link below.  I am not 100% convinced the vaccine is the cause, but it is something to keep an eye on.

We are sailing after the CSO expires in Nov.  Has any word come out about vaccine requirements past the CSO expiration?  

I know this is super early days, just wondering if there was any information for me to review?  

Also, I know the simple answer is do not sail if we are uneasy giving her the vaccine.  I just want to know more information before we have to make that decision.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/05/24/covid-vaccine-heart-problems-teens-young-adults-what-we-know/5241271001/

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13 minutes ago, Marlena said:

What I'm anxiously waiting to hear is what the plans are for the below 12s that CANT be vaccinated...will they make them mask up?? Interested to see how that plays out.

PCR Test at the port from what I read.  What's left unclear is borderline cases, like what if they turn 12/16 like a week or 5 (Remember J&J Is not an option for 12-16) before (or during) the cruise.

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Tony at La Lido Loca has picked up on a recent change to the RC FAQ on the subject that now indicates that the requirement applies only to sailings from Seattle or the Bahamas by virtue of specific reference to these sailings (where previously - I am led to believe - it referred to all US sailings).

I appreciate that this does not help those booked on those sailings who may still have unanswered questions, but it does suggest that, as @JeffB has opined above, RC is not intending for this to be a long- or even medium- term protocol.

 

image.thumb.png.62b5697ad700f0e25b2e4c78049dcba7.png

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Good catch. When was that section added? If after the chatter from RCL and elsewhere that Seattle was going to be the place from which RCL might sail first and on Alaska itineraries, at least RCL recognizes the potential for confusion and clarifies it.

Still lots of unknowns as it pertains to what I believe is imminent restarts from FL ports. But what has been the underpinning of RCL talk ...... there won't be a lot of ships restarting at the same time (July?) and it may be a hybrid mix of test sailings and full revenue sailings from FL, TX and Seattle, maybe others.

Has anyone done a spread sheet yet that names/guesses what ships are most likely to sail and from which ports in July/August? That would be a nice project for Twangster, don't ya'll think?

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9 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Good catch. When was that section added? If after the chatter from RCL and elsewhere that Seattle was going to be the place from which RCL might sail first and on Alaska itineraries, at least RCL recognizes the potential for confusion and clarifies it.

Still lots of unknowns as it pertains to what I believe is imminent restarts from FL ports. But what has been the underpinning of RCL talk ...... there won't be a lot of ships restarting at the same time (July?) and it may be a hybrid mix of test sailings and full revenue sailings from FL, TX and Seattle, maybe others.

Has anyone done a spread sheet yet that names/guesses what ships are most likely to sail and from which ports in July/August? That would be a nice project for Twangster, don't ya'll think?

 

Make it so, TwangsterBot

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45 minutes ago, Ian T said:

Tony at La Lido Loca has picked up on a recent change to the RC FAQ on the subject that now indicates that the requirement applies only to sailings from Seattle or the Bahamas by virtue of specific reference to these sailings (where previously - I am led to believe - it referred to all US sailings).

I appreciate that this does not help those booked on those sailings who may still have unanswered questions, but it does suggest that, as @JeffB has opined above, RC is not intending for this to be a long- or even medium- term protocol.

 

image.thumb.png.62b5697ad700f0e25b2e4c78049dcba7.png

I was also told this by an RC agent today. She was expecting news about Florida ports imminently.

“They have provided steps and options for 3 ships already, all citizenships, therefore even for UK guests those options would apply. However, they are still reviewing all other ships (departure ports) and will be providing us with more information soon.”

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5 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

They published it yesterday (outbreak onboard ship before cruises even began!!1!). Wherever there are humans, there will be SARS-nCoV-2 (and maybe COVID) from now on.

Agreed. Just like how you're more likely to catch norovirus or other such disease on land, but that's not how the media covers it on the rare occasions there is an outbreak of some kind on a ship. If/when someone catches COVID on a cruise, it's invariably going to be spun as some kind of super-spreader event. 

It's not accurate. It's not fair. But it's the reality of the modern media and something the cruise lines know all too well they have to factor into whatever protocols they end up putting in place. 

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4 hours ago, JeffB said:

IMO, unless something bad happens (not likely) by December, in the US anyway, we could be seeing a complete relaxation of the current CSO wrt shipboard sanitation regulations (what the authority and jurisdiction of the CSO springs forth from). 

My view is that by early fall, the Public Health Emergency (PHE) in the US will have been ended, possibly even sooner than that but, I'll go with "early fall" for now. Depending on what happens globally with vaccination programs and roll-outs the WHO will declare the pandemic over but regional epidemics still a concern. 

What that means for Americans is that the CSO, as we know and understand it's provision today, will be cancelled by the CDC, significantly improved by the CDC and merged into updates to current sanitation and infection control regulations or ruled by the court in FL currently hearing FL's law suit against HHS/CDC as unlawful. That will result in the CSO being enjoined. Favor improved/merged .... that option may come out of the current mediation effort assigned by the Federal court hearing FL's law suit. BTW, I believe going forward there will also be Congressional hearings on lthe CDC itself and limiting the authority of the CDC to impose policy like the NSO and CSO. I doubt that will happen again.

IOW, you (and the rest of us) won't likely be dealing with any of this in sailings from US ports. COVID vaccine seasonal schedules will be as common as flu shots. COVID as a disease will become influenza like. The difference bing more transmissible with a higher death rate but manageable.  What we will be dealing with is significantly safer cruising when it comes to infection control and ship sanitation. Silver lining if you could call it that.  

I think the timing of ending the PHE will be directly linked to the FDA approval of at least one of the vaccines.  Once the PHE ends, the EUA is null and void, and vaccines must stop unless full FDA approval has been granted.

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28 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

I think the timing of ending the PHE will be directly linked to the FDA approval of at least one of the vaccines.  Once the PHE ends, the EUA is null and void, and vaccines must stop unless full FDA approval has been granted.

I've heard this before, and just want to set the record straight: you don't have to be under a PHE for the FDA to authorize an EUA. THE HHS secretary can give the FDA permission to issue an EUA outside of the PHE. Not clear what that would mean for existing EUA's, but one would assume it's a relatively trivial matter of shuffling paperwork to get new signatures. There are a few therapeutics in work that may also justify EUA's over the time frame of a waning public health emergency.

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Its a small detail @TXCruiser but no..... thanks @LizzyBee23. Admittedly, unlike @LizzyBee23I wasn't aware of the connection you made between the PHE and the EUA until you mentioned it. When I looked it up, I found this:

The Pandemic and All Hazards Preparedness Reauthorization Act amended section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic (FD&C) Act, 21 U.S.C. 360bbb-3, to provide more flexibility to the Health and Human Services Secretary to authorize the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to issue an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA).  The Secretary is no longer required to make a formal determination of a public health emergency under section 319 of the Public Health Service Act, 42 U.S.C. 247d before declaring that circumstances justify issuing an EUA. 

So, it would seem that a cancelling of the PHE would not cancel the EUA as it was authorized directly by HHS to the FDA w/o the requirement to do that under a PHE ..... although, obviously, one was in effect. You almost have to be an attorney skilled in regulatory law to understand this. Interestingly, my son-in-law is one although he works in hospital compliance but we discussed the CSO and although he was not familiar with it, he said maritime regulation law is a highly specialized field wrt to how the CSO came about and added regulatory law in the HHS domain is also very complex. That's what he spends hours trying to sort out for his clients (Vidant HC in NC)

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51 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Its a small detail @TXCruiser but no..... thanks @LizzyBee23. Admittedly, unlike @LizzyBee23I wasn't aware of the connection you made between the PHE and the EUA until you mentioned it. When I looked it up, I found this:

The Pandemic and All Hazards Preparedness Reauthorization Act amended section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic (FD&C) Act, 21 U.S.C. 360bbb-3, to provide more flexibility to the Health and Human Services Secretary to authorize the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to issue an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA).  The Secretary is no longer required to make a formal determination of a public health emergency under section 319 of the Public Health Service Act, 42 U.S.C. 247d before declaring that circumstances justify issuing an EUA. 

So, it would seem that a cancelling of the PHE would not cancel the EUA as it was authorized directly by HHS to the FDA w/o the requirement to do that under a PHE ..... although, obviously, one was in effect. You almost have to be an attorney skilled in regulatory law to understand this. Interestingly, my son-in-law is one although he works in hospital compliance but we discussed the CSO and although he was not familiar with it, he said maritime regulation law is a highly specialized field wrt to how the CSO came about and added regulatory law in the HHS domain is also very complex. That's what he spends hours trying to sort out for his clients (Vidant HC in NC)

Fascinating, thanks

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5 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

If you sail before she turns 12, then you don't need to worry about the vaccine for her.

I had a typo there.  Our daughter turns 12 a couple weeks before we sail.  Giving us limited time for the vaccine process depending on which one we use.

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27 minutes ago, DublinFC said:

I had a typo there.  Our daughter turns 12 a couple weeks before we sail.  Giving us limited time for the vaccine process depending on which one we use.

I sure would hope they will have exceptions for people who legally cannot be fully vaccinated before the cruise date.

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33 minutes ago, DublinFC said:

I had a typo there.  Our daughter turns 12 a couple weeks before we sail.  Giving us limited time for the vaccine process depending on which one we use.

Technically she wouldn't be old enough to be fully vaccinated if she turns 12 two weeks before you cruise.   I believe their policy states that a person isn't fully vaccinated until 2 weeks after a second vaccine.   I would hope the cruise line would address this and be reasonable.   I cannot imagine that there are SO many "just" 12 year olds sailing that this is an issue so significant as to impact herd immunity on a ship.   Their policy almost needs to apply to kids who are 12 years and 6 months so they have a chance to achieve vaccinated status.   Fingers are crossed it works out and you get to sail.   

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I'm just a bit frustrated that RC cannot even give me a date as to when I will know what the conditions will be for my Aug 22nd cruise (specifically vaccinated children).  Being a UK traveller 30 days notice of the requirements is quite short notice, and I have a lot of money tied up in this trip.

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@icf75Frustrated, YES! I even sent a request for an update through the websites contact form, but to be honest I don't think they know! They responded we received your email and you're important to us, we will get back to you...then crickets. They don't know yet, so I am being as patient as I can but at least there is movement in the right direction, so there's that! A lot of us are in the same BOAT. Just keep thinking at least some of our friends can sail, so happy for them ?

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I am scheduled to cruise Symphony late August with a 14 and 16 year old who I won't be vaccinating. My TA attempted to start the refund process and was told they could not.  Additionally the vaccination requirement is only for 3 ships at this time Adventure, Ovation, and Serenade per the TA's conversation with RCL at this time.  Contrary to what the CEO has said in the media.  That said, I don't think they know anything for sure beyond a few weeks out.  Hopefully as we get closer my refund won't be an issue.  I hope RCL does what I think the right thing is here.

Other interesting observation, we are less than 90 days away from our sail date and on-line check in is not available.  Not a surprise but just indicative of them not knowing how the next few months will play out.    

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24 minutes ago, JSB_Z51 said:

Not a surprise but just indicative of them not knowing how the next few months will play out.  

Perhaps. My sense is that there is a degree of chaos. Maybe not getting the word out from the operations division to sales division is a better term. My take is that RCL has been less than transparent and know more about their plans than they release publicly.

Why do I think that? Because preparing a ship to come out of warm storage in normal conditions is hard. In a post pandemic setting having to deal with CSO compliance, it is very hard. None of this happens in weeks but instead takes months. If the operations division doesn't have a plan, that doesn't speak well for RCL. If they have one, and I think they do, not letting the sales division and TAs know what it is very bad PR.

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46 minutes ago, JSB_Z51 said:

Other interesting observation, we are less than 90 days away from our sail date and on-line check in is not available.  Not a surprise but just indicative of them not knowing how the next few months will play out.    

My Adventure cruise on 6/12 is 17 days out and check in is still not open. RCCL just made the cruise contract and luggage tags available in the past 24 hours or so. So based off of this, I would expect to wait a while for check in to be available. 

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