twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/05/18/portmiami-wants-broker-deal-shared-cruise-terminal-between-royal-caribbean-and-msc In 2019 the port of Miami first announced a series of terminal projects that would have a large impact on the cruise ship capacity. At the time MSC was looking to build east of Royal's Crown of Miami terminal A. The projected terminal AA/AAA was to accommodate two ships and would become the US headquarters for MSC. MSC has been trying to engage Disney for some time but those plans appeared to have stalled. News that MSC is now working with Royal on their expansion project is pretty significant especially if Royal will have preferential berthing rights. Other terminal projects are now in process including Virgin Cruises terminal H or as it's now called terminal V. NCL has completed their new terminal B west of Royal's Crown of Miami. Carnival began sprucing up it's two terminals D & E with plans for terminal F for its next generation of ships. A terminal map and overview of all projects can be found on the port's website. https://www.miamidade.gov/portmiami/cruise-terminals.asp Note the terminal capacity for 11 ships in the port's terminal map which should keep the Port of Miami sitting in the throne and retaining the title of busiest cruise port in the world for some time. Hopefully the new terminal AA/AAA project will bring some road improvements to terminal A. Either way it's about to get a lot busier on Dodge Island. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswallow Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 2 hours ago, twangster said: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/05/18/portmiami-wants-broker-deal-shared-cruise-terminal-between-royal-caribbean-and-msc In 2019 the port of Miami first announced a series of terminal projects that would have a large impact on the cruise ship capacity. At the time MSC was looking to build east of Royal's Crown of Miami terminal A. The projected terminal AA/AAA was to accommodate two ships and would become the US headquarters for MSC. MSC has been trying to engage Disney for some time but those plans appeared to have stalled. News that MSC is now working with Royal on their expansion project is pretty significant especially if Royal will have preferential berthing rights. Other terminal projects are now in process including Virgin Cruises terminal H or as it's now called terminal V. NCL has completed their new terminal B west of Royal's Crown of Miami. Carnival began sprucing up it's two terminals D & E with plans for terminal F for its next generation of ships. A terminal map and overview of all projects can be found on the port's website. https://www.miamidade.gov/portmiami/cruise-terminals.asp Note the terminal capacity for 11 ships in the port's terminal map which should keep the Port of Miami sitting in the throne and retaining the title of busiest cruise port in the world for some time. Hopefully the new terminal AA/AAA project will bring some road improvements to terminal A. Either way it's about to get a lot busier on Dodge Island. Is there room for anything more anyplace? I mean, if Disney came in after an MSC/Royal Caribbean deal is there a place for them to build their own terminal or would they be limited to working out a deal to share an existing one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantix2000 Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 The blog talks about berths 8, 9, and 10. But all the cruise terminals are "numbered" with letters. Is this article talking about the area labeled "CT AA/AAA - MSC" on that map? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate91 Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, dswallow said: Is there room for anything more anyplace? I mean, if Disney came in after an MSC/Royal Caribbean deal is there a place for them to build their own terminal or would they be limited to working out a deal to share an existing one? According to the link, the terminal for Disney would be just east of Terminal J on the south side of the island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, dswallow said: Is there room for anything more anyplace? I mean, if Disney came in after an MSC/Royal Caribbean deal is there a place for them to build their own terminal or would they be limited to working out a deal to share an existing one? There is a "shed" that has unknown use cases. What is it used for? Terminal G isn't allocated to anyone specifically, so there is that. Disney started looking at Port Everglades a long time ago, over a year now. If they are looking to do something on a Disney scale maybe that's why they looked at PEV, more land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswallow Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 I wonder if it's conceivable to work on ways to get a ship in and out in half the time, and thus double the capacity at each pier where they can accomplish that. Or even have evening/nighttime boarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, Atlantix2000 said: The blog talks about berths 8, 9, and 10. But all the cruise terminals are "numbered" with letters. Is this article talking about the area labeled "CT AA/AAA - MSC" on that map? In 2019 there was talk of MSC having two ships at their terminal with an option for a 3rd. The option turned out to be Disney but it sounds like Disney didn't want to be shoehorned into the end or last slot. As it is the MSC terminal encroaches on the cargo terminal one and impacts at least the truck entrance to cargo terminal one and potentially some offices for cargo terminal one. The map conveniently shows the pier being straight along the edge of the channel but in fact Royal sticks out a little and the proposed AA/AAA berths would encroach further into the main channel. With ships like Oasis class coming and going and MSC upsizing their ships it's going to make for a very tight waterway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Terminal J is a shallow berth with a small turning basin. Empress used to use it occasionally. Oceania uses it too sometimes with their R class ships smaller than Empress. Trying to do more on that side involves major dredging. The environmental roadblock over seagrass for Terminal V were a lot to overcome. I could only imagine what it would take to dredge out the South side of Dodge island. You can see the terminal V construction and dredging lower front and center in this live cam: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 The live cam above display how much Allure juts out into the main channel. The MSC terminal should push ships a bit further out. It's going to be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 You can see Royal's terminal A under construction in this photo from 2017-2018. Looking to the right of terminal A you see how the MSC terminal will encroach and consume some of the cargo terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 In this older photo prior to terminal A starting you can see how the channel is narrow in this general area. Cargo is also big business so cutting into the cargo terminal isn't a desirable solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Atlantix2000 said: The blog talks about berths 8, 9, and 10. But all the cruise terminals are "numbered" with letters. Is this article talking about the area labeled "CT AA/AAA - MSC" on that map? As it was explained to me... Some of Miami's "terminals" have multiple "berths". Berth 10 is in the area between Terminals E&F...F&G being Royal's old terminals which MSC sometimes uses now. The prime driver for revamping berth 10 is to include ShorePower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonOasis Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Matt said: As it was explained to me... Some of Miami's "terminals" have multiple "berths". Berth 10 is in the area between Terminals E&F...F&G being Royal's old terminals which MSC sometimes uses now. The prime driver for revamping berth 10 is to include ShorePower. I’m confused as someone else was earlier so are you saying berths 9 and 10 are the two cruise terminals behind Carnival’s terminals? I’ve sailed on MSC on both the Divina and Meraviglia and the terminals they used were ancient. If those are the terminals and berths then yes they are in dire need of an upgrade but with MCS‘S aggressive expansion plans out of PortMiami and Royals continued growth as well it is strange to see them partner up with Royal under an agreement where Royal would have preferential use of the berths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 It's curious to me why MSC is eager to find a partner. We know they plan more ships for the US market but they must be looking to bridge the time between now and when the ships are really here. The deal was structured like Royal's terminal A. The land is leased but the cruise line pays for the building. As far as Royal seeking preferential berthing... why not? It doesn't say MSC agreed to that. In fact they probably laughed at it. However they are ones seeking a partner. The way I see it Royal said sure, but we get preferential berthing and MSC is probably not willing to go there. That leaves the Port trying to broker a deal between the two. PoM berths are a finite item. Once they build these that's it. Looking long term it would be bad business not to consider it. JasonOasis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Wish they would look elsewhere Miami is my leas favorite port in Florida. Lauderdale is about as far away but is just a much better experience to get to for me. Excited to see Disney considering more of a presence at Lauderdale along with their Canaveral base and Carnival putting some presence in Canaveral as well (Mardi Gras). As long as Royal shares the fleet across them all i will be fine but a heavy Miami focus makes it easier to consider others options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 The problem with PEV is its industrial nature. Given its role with the movement of fuel for South Florida it's a secure marine facility requiring the extra security just to get onto the military base port grounds. Royal has long viewed the overall experience to include the embarkation and debarkation. PEV can't evolve past the primary purpose of being a shipping port first, cruise port a very distant second. Even the beautiful Celebrity terminal is impacted in this way at PEV. Miami is free of that tanker baggage. The cruise and shipping terminals are distinct and separate on Dodge Island giving them the freedom to create a user experience that starts before arriving at the terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonOasis Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, jticarruthers said: Wish they would look elsewhere Miami is my leas favorite port in Florida. Lauderdale is about as far away but is just a much better experience to get to for me. Excited to see Disney considering more of a presence at Lauderdale along with their Canaveral base and Carnival putting some presence in Canaveral as well (Mardi Gras). As long as Royal shares the fleet across them all i will be fine but a heavy Miami focus makes it easier to consider others options I agree Port Everglades is a much better option and offers a superb arrival experience in terms of traffic. PortMiami is a nightmare the last few times I’ve left out of PortMiami on an Oasis Class ship it took us over 50 minutes to reach Royal Caribbeans terminal and that was after we arrived on Dodge Island. Luckily we had hired a private car but I felt bad for people in taxis because a certain point you just start seeing people jump out of their taxis dragging their suitcases because the meter continually runs, and when traffic isn’t moving for 15 or 20 minutes at a time it’s atrocious and a simple $30 dollar cab fare can quickly turn into a $70-$90 dollar cab fare for those not coming directly from the airport. Royal Caribbean has a stunning terminal at PortMiami I wish they had something equally as stunning at Port Everglades but I will happily cruise out of Port Everglades if the traffic situation at PortMiami worsens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Port of Miami certainly failed on its job to build the roads to keep up with cruise traffic. Construction of NCL's terminal next door contributed to that but at least that's done now. Hopefully once MSC's terminal is built that will improve all cruise traffic at the end of "terminal row". columbus_cruiser 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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