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Is there way around the FL law against proof of vaccine


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22 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

There have been several studies that have come out lately showing how little impact covid has on kids and how little impact kids who do get covid have on adults.


Exactly.  Between our first and second dose of Pfizer, myself, my spouse, and our 10 year old son all got Covid.  Our son had a sore throat for 1 day and was 100% better the next day, my spouse was moderately sick for 4 days, and I had no symptoms at all.

Our son obviously hasn’t been vaccinated and I won’t let him be vaccinated even when it’s available for his age.  I was willing to be a guinea pig, but I won’t let my son get a vaccine that hasn’t been out and studied for at least 5 years. Plus he’s already had Covid so he should now have natural immunity.

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39 minutes ago, ChrisK2793 said:


That wouldn’t be fair at all to children who can’t be vaccinated at this point.

 

The premise of the post was a scenario where they want to exclude unvaccinated and how to get around the vaccine passport ban.

Royal has not indicated they plan to go in that direction, NCL has.  

NCL wasn't afraid to ban kids, flat out, period.   Fair?  NCL thought it was.  

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On 5/13/2021 at 7:31 PM, twangster said:

That's challenging for all existing bookings.  

I don't want to sail on a ship where I have to endure protocols to accommodate unvaccinated.  

I don't want to sail on a ship that forces passengers (CDC imposed or not) to take an experimental drug aka "vaccine" for a virus that is hugely survivable for healthy individuals. What would be nice is if we let the vaccinated sail vaccinated and be confident in their protection from us who choose to go unvaccinated. Seems like everybody wins. Honestly, what's next? Measles vaccine proof after the first outbreak of measles at sea ala Disneyland? Maybe that comes after another arbitrary no-sail order by the CDC. Read it this way after what they just did they can shutdown our beloved industry unfairly and arbitrarily anytime something like this happens. Vaccinated are by very definition vaccinated against the virus, let everybody that wants to sail and take responsibility for their own medical decisions. 

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1 hour ago, CruiseRoyalDad said:

I don't want to sail on a ship that forces passengers (CDC imposed or not) to take an experimental drug aka "vaccine" for a virus that is hugely survivable for healthy individuals. What would be nice is if we let the vaccinated sail vaccinated and be confident in their protection from us who choose to go unvaccinated. Seems like everybody wins. Honestly, what's next? Measles vaccine proof after the first outbreak of measles at sea ala Disneyland? Maybe that comes after another arbitrary no-sail order by the CDC. Read it this way after what they just did they can shutdown our beloved industry unfairly and arbitrarily anytime something like this happens. Vaccinated are by very definition vaccinated against the virus, let everybody that wants to sail and take responsibility for their own medical decisions. 

You don't have to take any vaccine even if that means you don't end up sailing.

I don't have to accept protocols I don't like even if that means I don't end up sailing.

Their ship, their rules.

We are both free to make choices.  

 

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On 5/14/2021 at 11:22 AM, Marlena said:

Reality is cruising needs to be able to start to prove that any of their protocols work. And I think for that to happen to have to at least start with full vaccinated cruises. In my eyes its the only way to get started and we desperately need a few cruises to start and go well.

While I don't want to acquiesce to the slippery slope of fully vaccinated cruises and further empower the inept CDC, you make a valid point.  

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11 minutes ago, CruiseRoyalDad said:

says the guy claiming political stunts. 

Not sure I follow.

The question was asked how to bypass the vaccine passport when they can't require proof of vaccination.

One solution is impose two sets of rules, one likable for vaccinated, one that few would sign up for if unvaccinated.

No politics involved in that statement.  Simply a way around the law as implemented by the state.

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53 minutes ago, CruiseRoyalDad said:

I don't want to sail on a ship that forces passengers (CDC imposed or not) to take an experimental drug aka "vaccine" for a virus that is hugely survivable for healthy individuals. What would be nice is if we let the vaccinated sail vaccinated and be confident in their protection from us who choose to go unvaccinated. Seems like everybody wins. Honestly, what's next? Measles vaccine proof after the first outbreak of measles at sea ala Disneyland? Maybe that comes after another arbitrary no-sail order by the CDC. Read it this way after what they just did they can shutdown our beloved industry unfairly and arbitrarily anytime something like this happens. Vaccinated are by very definition vaccinated against the virus, let everybody that wants to sail and take responsibility for their own medical decisions. 

If you understood the differences between emergency use authorization and biological approval, you wouldn't be calling it an experimental drug.

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34 minutes ago, Ogilthorpe said:

The debate continues, and likely will for some time. There may or may not be rules that some customers will or will not be willing to accept. The question that I keep coming back to is: If the vaccine works, why are the vaccinated so worried about the unvaccinated? ?

Only if we get extra protocols imposed on us that we, the vaccinated, don't need.

Protocols like masks designed to keep unvaccinated safe make for a cruise experience I am not interested in.

Here on land masks are only for unvaccinated.  I am good with that.  I can grocery shop, go to a bar, eat dinner out, all unmasked.  

If all those establishments said I had to wear a mask just to keep the unvaccinated safe, I would not be good with that.  

How about if an outbreak occurs and 30 unvaccinated get infected?  Does my cruise come to an end?  If so, I am not good with that.  I would rather see the unvaccinated kept off the ship so my cruise experience isn't potentially ruined by them.  

If the unvaccinated are putting my vacation investment at risk that is not okay. 

On the other hand if the infected get put off the ship somewhere and the party continues, I'm okay with that.  See ya!

 

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1 hour ago, CruiseRoyalDad said:

I don't want to sail on a ship that forces passengers (CDC imposed or not) to take an experimental drug aka "vaccine" for a virus that is hugely survivable for healthy individuals. What would be nice is if we let the vaccinated sail vaccinated and be confident in their protection from us who choose to go unvaccinated. Seems like everybody wins. Honestly, what's next? Measles vaccine proof after the first outbreak of measles at sea ala Disneyland? Maybe that comes after another arbitrary no-sail order by the CDC. Read it this way after what they just did they can shutdown our beloved industry unfairly and arbitrarily anytime something like this happens. Vaccinated are by very definition vaccinated against the virus, let everybody that wants to sail and take responsibility for their own medical decisions. 

Actually, very recently, measles outbreaks did indeed shut down many schools around the country.

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1 hour ago, CruiseRoyalDad said:

I don't want to sail on a ship that forces passengers (CDC imposed or not) to take an experimental drug aka "vaccine" for a virus that is hugely survivable for healthy individuals. What would be nice is if we let the vaccinated sail vaccinated and be confident in their protection from us who choose to go unvaccinated. Seems like everybody wins. Honestly, what's next? Measles vaccine proof after the first outbreak of measles at sea ala Disneyland? Maybe that comes after another arbitrary no-sail order by the CDC. Read it this way after what they just did they can shutdown our beloved industry unfairly and arbitrarily anytime something like this happens. Vaccinated are by very definition vaccinated against the virus, let everybody that wants to sail and take responsibility for their own medical decisions. 

Not "experimental", not even close.  Your bias is showing loud and clear.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

This is not the place to debate the vaccine

let us get back to finding a way around another Law, Florida put in place due to somebodies Knee Jerk reaction.

This Law is much like, the rumors that say it is against the law to ask if your vaccinated because of HIPAA, when HIPAA clearly only applies to medical providers releasing your information with out your expressed permission.

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8 minutes ago, stevendom57 said:

There is an easy way to get around the Florida law forcing proof of vaccine.

Sail out of Galveston.

just as soon as they have the new terminal in place for an Oasis class ship. Their other major problem is fly in passengers, much like Port Canaveral.

Not as easy and simple as at Port Everglades or POM.

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On 5/21/2021 at 10:45 AM, Josh C said:

Or New York.. or San Juan.. or Baltimore.. or Seattle.. or Los Angeles.. saying nothing of Europe - lots of potential options! 

agree with the exception of Galveston and San Juan none of those other ports can easily fill the popular Caribbean routes that are the bread and butter of cruising from the USA.

But i do like the way you think here.  Find something that works.

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On 5/14/2021 at 8:25 AM, dswallow said:

 

Or if you aren't vaccinated, you're restricted to your stateroom for the entire sailing. If you are vaccinated, you have access to the rest of the ship.

That violated Hipaa laws, RCCL would end up in court real fast and lose that one!

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On 5/14/2021 at 10:39 PM, Jennifer Burke said:

Right and they can hand over the colored bracelets when you Board and prove you are vaccinated. I think that's a great idea. 

Violates HIPAA laws! They can't disclose medical info..In doing this they announce who has and hasn't been vaccinated.

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14 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Violates HIPAA laws! They can't disclose medical info..In doing this they announce who has and hasn't been vaccinated.

Then just do not let them on board. Much less risk of a cruise being interrupted if everybody is vaccinated.

Also HIPAA is a set of guidelines of how a company has to protect your medical data if they receive it from you or another source. If you volunteer your data over to them (I.e. giving them your vaccine status), I am not a lawyer, but I do not believe HIPAA works in this situation.

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12 minutes ago, RyanS said:

Then just do not let them on board. Much less risk of a cruise being interrupted if everybody is vaccinated.

Also HIPAA is a set of guidelines of how a company has to protect your medical data if they receive it from you or another source. If you volunteer your data over to them (I.e. giving them your vaccine status), I am not a lawyer, but I do not believe HIPAA works in this situation.

Your partial correct, but by them singling you out with any requirement that isn't required by all, they've just released your medical status/condition..which they're required by law to protect. They openly disclosed private medical information via forcing you to modify your appearance.  Does that make sense? It's a thin line...but it will be put to the courts i feel in the near future.

 

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24 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Violates HIPAA laws! They can't disclose medical info..In doing this they announce who has and hasn't been vaccinated.

No they don't. You'll be restricted to your cabin. People become restricted to their cabins for a number of different reasons. And they don't label your cabin with your name, either. And you knew that entering the ship, so you've consented to the circumstances that you're in aboard the ship, too, so even if your name were known and it was known you were restricted to the cabin, and that restriction was because of not being vaccinated against COVID-19 it still would not violate HIPAA, because HIPAA does not prevent or restrict you from disclosing your medical conditions. 

It's a shame people so ready to claim a law is applicable can't be bothered to even read it. 

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9 minutes ago, dswallow said:

No they don't. You'll be restricted to your cabin. People become restricted to their cabins for a number of different reasons. And they don't label your cabin with your name, either. And you knew that entering the ship, so you've consented to the circumstances that you're in aboard the ship, too, so even if your name were known and it was known you were restricted to the cabin, and that restriction was because of not being vaccinated against COVID-19 it still would not violate HIPAA, because HIPAA does not prevent or restrict you from disclosing your medical conditions. 

It's a shame people so ready to claim a law is applicable can't be bothered to even read it. 

What your stating is if someone came down with COVID while on board...what i'm talking about is prior to boarding, a screening process ...You missed the point clearly...Try reading sometime!

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10 minutes ago, mworkman said:

What your stating is if someone came down with COVID while on board...what i'm talking about is prior to boarding, a screening process ...You missed the point clearly...Try reading sometime!

Let me explain this theoretical scenario in simpler terms...

Prior to boarding you would be requested to provide proof of vaccination or told that if you didn't provide that proof that you could still board but you would be isolated in your cabin for the entire sailing. This would be your consent and there is nothing HIPAA could apply to in any way from anyone making any interpretation onboard from you being restricted to your cabin.

 

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14 minutes ago, dswallow said:

Let me explain this theoretical scenario in simpler terms...

Prior to boarding you would be requested to provide proof of vaccination or told that if you didn't provide that proof that you could still board but you would be isolated in your cabin for the entire sailing. This would be your consent and there is nothing HIPAA could apply to in any way from anyone making any interpretation onboard from you being restricted to your cabin.

 

Correct, but if the cruise lines allowed you to board, however required you wear a mask, but those with a vaccine didn't require it...that's where the file line hits, As they have just openly disclosed you medical states knowingly to everyone...Now it's no longer private, which they're require by HIPAA to not disclose.

Who would want to get on board knowingly you're going to be restricted to your cabin? To each as their own i say.

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8 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Correct, but if the cruise lines allowed you to board, however required you wear a mask, but those with a vaccine didn't require it...that's where the file line hits, As they have just openly disclosed you medical states knowingly to everyone...Now it's no longer private, which there require by HIPAA to not disclose.

HIPAA only applies to covered entities. Covered entities are defined in the HIPAA rules as (1) health plans, (2) health care clearinghouses, and (3) health care providers who electronically transmit any health information in connection with transactions for which HHS has adopted standards. Generally, these transactions concern billing and payment for services or insurance coverage. For example, hospitals, academic medical centers, physicians, and other health care providers who electronically transmit claims transaction information directly or through an intermediary to a health plan are covered entities.

If you give this information willingly to the cruise lines, they are not required by law through HIPAA to protect your data in that way. There is also nothing stopping them from "disclosing" your medical condition (or lack of vaccine) through a wristband or requiring a mask.

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10 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Correct, but if the cruise lines allowed you to board, however required you wear a mask, but those with a vaccine didn't require it...that's where the file line hits, As they have just openly disclosed you medical states knowingly to everyone...Now it's no longer private, which there require by HIPAA to not disclose.

But cruise lines are not bound by HIPAA.

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8 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Correct, but if the cruise lines allowed you to board, however required you wear a mask, but those with a vaccine didn't require it...that's where the file line hits, As they have just openly disclosed you medical states knowingly to everyone...Now it's no longer private, which there require by HIPAA to not disclose.

No it wouldn't. Because those terms would be clearly indicated to you prior to boarding. You are choosing, and thus consenting, to board in conditions requiring that you adhere to wearing a mask. Thus again, HIPAA could not apply. Further, just because someone is not required to wear a mask does not mean they cannot wear a mask, so you're wrong in interpreting the wearing of a mask in that theoretical condition to indicate your vaccination status. Nonetheless, you have chosen to board under conditions that require you to always wear the mask; what people may or may not think that means is irrelevant. And if the circumstances ended in you being detained onboard because you refused to adhere to the conditions you agreed to, again HIPAA does not apply, because you have previously agreed to these conditions.

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26 minutes ago, dswallow said:

No it wouldn't. Because those terms would be clearly indicated to you prior to boarding. You are choosing, and thus consenting, to board in conditions requiring that you adhere to wearing a mask. Thus again, HIPAA could not apply. Further, just because someone is not required to wear a mask does not mean they cannot wear a mask, so you're wrong in interpreting the wearing of a mask in that theoretical condition to indicate your vaccination status. Nonetheless, you have chosen to board under conditions that require you to always wear the mask; what people may or may not think that means is irrelevant. And if the circumstances ended in you being detained onboard because you refused to adhere to the conditions you agreed to, again HIPAA does not apply, because you have previously agreed to these conditions.

So you already know what the terms are? Hmm Do you work for RCCL or is this a SWAG? I can choose to consent or Not consent..the burden lies with the terms upon my arrival. Everyone has choices...what you elect to do is upon you, I choose to disclose as little information ie medical or whatever i deem necessary. Your incorrect, Businesses are required to protect your data, whether it being medical, educational, and HIPAA does apply to them as well. I own a business and must comply  to safeguarding personal data information.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2013-01-25/pdf/2013-01073.pdf

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10 minutes ago, mworkman said:

So you already know what the terms are? Hmm Do you work for RCCL or is this a SWAG? I can choose to consent or Not consent..the burden lies with the terms upon my arrival. Everyone has choices...what you elect to do is upon you, I choose to disclose as little information ie medical or whatever i deem necessary. Your incorrect, Businesses are required to protect your data, whether it being medical, educational, and HIPAA does apply to them as well.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2013-01-25/pdf/2013-01073.pdf

You're just not understanding HIPAA and what it really applies to.

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15 minutes ago, mworkman said:

So you already know what the terms are? Hmm Do you work for RCCL or is this a SWAG? I can choose to consent or Not consent..the burden lies with the terms upon my arrival. Everyone has choices...what you elect to do is upon you, I choose to disclose as little information ie medical or whatever i deem necessary. Your incorrect, Businesses are required to protect your data, whether it being medical, educational, and HIPAA does apply to them as well. I own a business and must comply  to safeguarding personal data information.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2013-01-25/pdf/2013-01073.pdf

You may have some privacy rules for protecting employee data, but it's not because of HIPAA

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1 hour ago, mworkman said:

That violated Hipaa laws, RCCL would end up in court real fast and lose that one!

 

1 hour ago, mworkman said:

Violates HIPAA laws! They can't disclose medical info..In doing this they announce who has and hasn't been vaccinated.

I don’t think you understand what the HIPAA law says. 

Neither of the examples given have anything to do with HIPAA. 

HIPAA is is exclusive to healthcare providers and 3rd party participants in healthcare (insurers and supply chain) 

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