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New CDC Guidance, no masks, no distancing...does it make a difference?


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https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-lifts-indoor-mask-guidance-for-vaccinated-people-you-can-shed-your-mask-184707179.html

I just read this article that states today the CDC is saying anyone fully vaccinated can go back to regular activities, no distancing, no mask. I believe I'm reading that correctly. So with this about face today, what are the arguments of yesterday's hearing? Are they now moot in the sense that Royal can say "that's it, vaccines are mandated, let's sail!" ??? I'm very curious to see how this plays out, since it's from the CDC themselves. It obviously leaves Royal in the very disadvantageous position of having to go down the path of mandating vaccines, and I think we can all agree none of us WANT them to have to do that, but ... is this good news or not? Does anything change, or not? 

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  • nhilding10 changed the title to New CDC Guidance, no masks, no distancing...does it make a difference?
7 minutes ago, VoidoftheSeas said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think the loosened mask restrictions apply to cruises, since they still fall under the same classification as prisons and homeless shelters which are notably excluded from this guidance.

But I think it noticeable that cruise ship were not mentioned at all, just general recommendations for international travel.

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20 minutes ago, twangster said:

I suspect we'll find many departments within the CDC are isolated and have no awareness what another part of the CDC is doing.  

In this case the Political Directives Division has updated mask guidance while the Cruise Denial Division is still looking to add more protocols.  

And the Ministry of Truth continues as usual!

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This is definitely a good step to help getting cruises back up and going again in the US, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the CDC to change their cruise guidelines to match other forms of travel. It is interesting that they carved out mass transit from the guidelines here. I wonder how long it will be before those change as well. 

This does bode well I believe for less restrictions on the cruises departing from abroad though as almost all or all passengers will be vaccinated for those sailings. 

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the cdc main concern is not allowing the spread of an outbreak in the event it happens....i dont know why its so hard to A) proof of vaccine with no need of a covid test to board or B) present a negative test taken with in 3 days of boarding..... dont allow full boats, maybe 80% and use a section of rooms for "quarentine" ICE. have the buffets but make crew serve which will cut down in wasted food saving the boat money. This isnt  rocket science.. im all for safety but some of these rules are straight up laughable. make dining the same rules as on land. no ne wants to be all in your space anyways pre covid as well.

 

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All good points...but I guess what I'm wondering is could this be interpreted into mandating vaccinations for passengers, and then "full steam ahead" so to speak? I see now the difference where they mentioned public transportation, but if you can be inside at a restaurant, seems you can be inside at a restaurant on a ship, right? But the caveat of public transportation...I get it. Just seems like it's a way to put their (Royal's) foot in the door and say 100% vaccinated passengers only until this is all lifted and away we go... Then it would render everything else, moot, in the short term, right?

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13 minutes ago, Tarheel0907 said:

once a ship is in international waters the cdc doesnt mandate S#@T.....

Whether any of us think the CDC has the power to mandate procedures on a ship or not, clearly the cruise lines do.  So does the State of Florida.

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8 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Whether any of us think the CDC has the power to mandate procedures on a ship or not, clearly the cruise lines do.  So does the State of Florida.

im okay with wearing a mask watching the shows or in the casino, but outside and while eating is stupid......the cdc changes something once a week we will see what happens next week lol

 

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8 minutes ago, Gears said:

I think you are going to see a debate on what defines public transportation versus private transportation.

I really cannot see any argument that a cruise ship is private transportation.  I don't think "public" means publicly owned, but means open to the public and would include Taxis, Uber and Lyft.

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7 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

I really cannot see any argument that a cruise ship is private transportation.  I don't think "public" means publicly owned, but means open to the public and would include Taxis, Uber and Lyft.

to me public means anyone can attend, its not invite only. but you are also purchasing a ticket so then again its private because you cant just walk on board and go......

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12 minutes ago, Tarheel0907 said:

to me public means anyone can attend, its not invite only. but you are also purchasing a ticket so then again its private because you cant just walk on board and go......

After reasearching it a bit, I'm going to change my mind and agree with you.  There are many different definitions of "public transportation"

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Public transportation has traditionally been defined as transportation available to anyone. Not necessarily free, but available.

 

Anyone can get in a taxi, though they'd have to pay a fare. Anyone can get on a commercial flight, though they need a ticket.

 

But not anyone can get in my car.  Not anyone can go board that private jet in the GA terminal.

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2 hours ago, nhilding10 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-lifts-indoor-mask-guidance-for-vaccinated-people-you-can-shed-your-mask-184707179.html

I just read this article that states today the CDC is saying anyone fully vaccinated can go back to regular activities, no distancing, no mask. I believe I'm reading that correctly. So with this about face today, what are the arguments of yesterday's hearing? Are they now moot in the sense that Royal can say "that's it, vaccines are mandated, let's sail!" ??? .........

The CDC acted under the provisions of U.S.C.42 and specifically part 264 (among others) wrt cruise ships. They have the authority to regulate cruise ship operations in US waters, such authority starts when international waters are left behind and ends at the waters edge.

There is an important distinction between CDC's authority to regulate to protect the PH where infectious disease is concerned within federal properties and state properties. So, the CDC can mandate masks in federally controlled airports, train stations, buildings, conveyances (Amtrac), etc. IOW, in the case of FL's ports, which are under state control through the counties, the state, not the feds regulates. Mask wearing and social distancing in PEV's Cruise terminals? Port Of Miami's, etc? That's up to Broward Co. in the case of PEV, Miami-Dade in the case of Port of Miami and so forth.

On board a ship that is floating at the terminal (the waters edge), the CDC can mandate mitigation measures, e.g., masks. Technically and beyond that, they cannot.  Uber, a private business, for example, is a private conveyance operating with state licensing making them accountable to state regulation potentially delegated to counties. In FL, Uber, or any other private business, can require patrons to mask. Right now, private businesses in FL cannot require vaccination to obtain service or enter the property. 

While private businesses, operating within the state of FL can mandate mitigation measures, e.g., mask, distancing and so forth, IMO, they can also mandate vaccines. That would, IMO, make the Desantis EO and subsequent laws passed by FL's legislatures banning "vaccine passports" not enforceable. I'm reasonably certain this law would fail a court challenge. Desantis knows this.... or at least he should. So, political theater. When it comes to the cruise lines - a private business entity, if they want to mandate vaccines to board at FL ports, they will and Desantis will cave.

Importantly, the CDC "recommends" PH measures. The driving force for businesses to adapt CDC recommendations is the threat of a civil suit alleging negligence. Note that several states have passed legislation absolving business of negligence if a patron enters the business and then contracts COVID. Keep in mind, there is a lot of gray area in these matters. They won't get resolved until such laws get challenged in court.

Simply stated, the arguments presented in FL's law suit are very much alive and well and the judge that heard the case yesterday has taken the plaintiff's and defendant's arguments under advisement. His ruling will only narrowly impact the CDC and their CSO and that only applies to cruise ship operations, nothing else.  Remember that FL asked for the court to enjoin the CDC's CSO. If the judge grants FL's request, what I expect to see aboard ship and aboard ship only, are most of the industry's Safe to Sail plan that was formulated last year.  Beyond that, some lines will require vaccinations, some won't - up to those lines.

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"Anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities, large or small, without wearing a mask or physical distancing," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said at a press briefing. "If you are fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you had stopped doing because of the pandemic."

Does this include cruising???  We stopped cruising because of the pandemic!!!

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My hope with this change in policy, for the upcoming Adventure and Vision sailings we'll see these additional updates from the Healthy Sail Panel / Royal:

  • No masks required in the MDR or any other dining space (including smaller venues like the pub, Boleros, etc.)
  • No masks required in the Royal Theater or other performance venues, the Viking Crown Lounge and other mainly lounging areas indoors, etc.
  • No masks required while using loungers in the Solarium (if enclosed and not open to the outside air)
  • Only time masks might be required, if even then, is when walking the hallways and corridors
    • Those are quite narrow and two people passing by each other will get quite close; the brief exposure time from just passing is probably not going to be an issue
    • But Royal might still at least recommend it to cover their butts for when passengers are going to their cabin and have the bad luck to hit a log jam of people going somewhere else
    • Honestly, I think even this won't be recommended, never mind required. If the CDC says vaccinated people can congregate without regard to crowd size, then why bother?

Wild card here is the destination ports. The Healthy Sail Panel has to take into account not just the US regulatory agencies and the latest science, but what the port governments are mandating. I've been checking Bermuda's web site for updates to Covid protocols, and so far they are just as glacial in their movement as the CDC has been. Zero significant changes that I've seen in the vaccinated tourist protocols for land vacations, never mind any info specifically about cruise passengers. No idea if the Bahamian / Caribbean / Mexican ports' governments have been making any kind of similar updates as the CDC.

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17 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

My hope with this change in policy, for the upcoming Adventure and Vision sailings we'll see these additional updates from the Healthy Sail Panel / Royal:

  • No masks required in the MDR or any other dining space (including smaller venues like the pub, Boleros, etc.)
  • No masks required in the Royal Theater or other performance venues, the Viking Crown Lounge and other mainly lounging areas indoors, etc.
  • No masks required while using loungers in the Solarium (if enclosed and not open to the outside air)
  • Only time masks might be required, if even then, is when walking the hallways and corridors
    • Those are quite narrow and two people passing by each other will get quite close; the brief exposure time from just passing is probably not going to be an issue
    • But Royal might still at least recommend it to cover their butts for when passengers are going to their cabin and have the bad luck to hit a log jam of people going somewhere else
    • Honestly, I think even this won't be recommended, never mind required. If the CDC says vaccinated people can congregate without regard to crowd size, then why bother?

Wild card here is the destination ports. The Healthy Sail Panel has to take into account not just the US regulatory agencies and the latest science, but what the port governments are mandating. I've been checking Bermuda's web site for updates to Covid protocols, and so far they are just as glacial in their movement as the CDC has been. Zero significant changes that I've seen in the vaccinated tourist protocols for land vacations, never mind any info specifically about cruise passengers. No idea if the Bahamian / Caribbean / Mexican ports' governments have been making any kind of similar updates as the CDC.

In some of the notices I read today, it is noted that we can "explore" the ports on our own... I know Cozumel is begging for people...

 

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15 minutes ago, deep1 said:

In some of the notices I read today, it is noted that we can "explore" the ports on our own...

That's slightly older news from a couple of days ago, I think. Both that and the fact that masks are no longer required in any outdoor space on board.

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17 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Masks would still be required in "crowded" outdoor areas. I think my definition of crowded won't be the same as the CDC's

If I read today's latest CDC update right, crowd size is no longer an issue when it comes to fully vaccinated individuals. Either indoors or outdoors. So the pool deck and other outdoor onboard spaces will all be fine.

Especially for these Adventure and Vision sailings that are running at much-reduced capacity.

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6 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

If I read today's latest CDC update right, crowd size is no longer an issue when it comes to fully vaccinated individuals. Either indoors or outdoors. So the pool deck and other outdoor onboard spaces will all be fine.

Especially for these Adventure and Vision sailings that are running at much-reduced capacity.


The CDC's update, at least for now, doesn't apply to cruise ships. However the update might make things easier on board AD/VI, which may be why they are taking a few more days before releasing their protocols.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, twangster said:

Look at how fast the country is progressing.  A week ago we would have had no idea this was coming.  It's great news.

A week from now more great news may be upon us.  

A week after that, even more great news.  

I sincerely hope you are correct

I Just Want to Cruise, NOW!!

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